Society's General Depressive Worldview

L50LasPak

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The error here is thinking that the complexity of the world has grown. In my eyes, the quality of leaders has gone down.

While hypothetically the complexity of the world has not grown (I disagree, more technology and more fields of study means more to keep track of, but that's another arguement) the amount of information the average human needs or feels the need to assimilate has undeniably grown. So even if human relations are exactly the same as they were when we were stone-age cavemen, access to such a massive amount of information definitely increases the complexity of day to day life for the average person. I think its pretty obvious that these conditions would have a negative effect on human psychology. Our brains have limits the same way any other organ in our bodies does.
 

DecimatedFerret

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I'm pretty sure people are always complaining about how everything's going to shit the bed, seems normal to me. Something really bad that really shakes things up for everybody is bound to happen sooner or later, though.
 
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KimCoppolaAficionado

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While hypothetically the complexity of the world has not grown (I disagree, more technology and more fields of study means more to keep track of, but that's another arguement) the amount of information the average human needs or feels the need to assimilate has undeniably grown. So even if human relations are exactly the same as they were when we were stone-age cavemen, access to such a massive amount of information definitely increases the complexity of day to day life for the average person. I think its pretty obvious that these conditions would have a negative effect on human psychology. Our brains have limits the same way any other organ in our bodies does.
A false comparison. The brain is constantly growing and changing throughout our lives, forming new neural pathways and trimming old ones. Even as this activity declines comparatively as we age, it still makes the brain far more durable and plastic than any other organ. I do not think we understand enough about the brain to be making grand statements about the brain's capacities beyond self-evident facts like "the human brain cannot retain all information in the universe with perfect accuracy".
Even if I accepted your premise, you haven't shown the hows and whys. What do you think is the mechanism for this limit? Why is it manifesting as depression and not petit mal seizures or some other phenomena that is known to emerge when areas of the brain are overstimulated?
Without a solid grounding, your statement is just more "we are living in the final age", which, as I've pointed out earlier, is an idea seen in human thought virtually since the concept of age and an eschaton emerged.
 

L50LasPak

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Even if I accepted your premise, you haven't shown the hows and whys. What do you think is the mechanism for this limit? Why is it manifesting as depression and not petit mal seizures or some other phenomena that is known to emerge when areas of the brain are overstimulated?

Its a pretty common criticism of modern cluture that people expect a brain and a computer to act simlarly when they have fundamentally different mechanics in practice. There are some people out there who's brains seem to act like computers; they are generally the higher-up executives and policy makers who assume the rest of the human population can just be bent over backwards like they are. Besides, you ask why its manifesting as depression and not seizures or other issues? Perhaps it is manifesting as those issues, and depression is merely the most common symptom. Its been noted that schizophrenia occurs more often in large cities than in rural locations, for instance.

Without a solid grounding, your statement is just more "we are living in the final age", which, as I've pointed out earlier, is an idea seen in human thought virtually since the concept of age and an eschaton emerged.

And your statement effectively boils down to "There has never been a final age, so therefore there never will be a final age." If I was able to produce proof of a final age, neither of us would logically be present to debate it.

However, I don't think this neccesarily has to be the final age. If we would utilize our technology properly to fix the gaps and issues that human memory and human cognition has had since the beginning, then we could move forward. I don't believe enough interest currently exists in doing so, and i find it unlikely that such interest ever will. Arguements like the one above are what makes me believe people will not take issues like this seriously and will generally dismiss any negativity out of hand, thus being the ultimate cause of why we're fucked in the first place.
 

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To be someone who believes in something earnestly in this world above yourself (besides perhaps the divine) is to be a fool and a naked one at that because everyone knows the game is up.
I don't understand this. Even if we assume that this world is hellish and terrible in nearly every way (and I don't think it is) that wouldn't preclude the possibility of there being other ways of existing or different realms of experience. I'm not religious myself, but I fail to understand how the existence of unpleasantness would prevent spiritual or mental growth. If anything, discomfort seems to facilitate religious experience, for example Jesus on the cross or Buddha under his tree. Even from a biological level, its quite clear that there are different levels of consciousness, an ant isn't as conscious as a mouse which isn't as conscious as a human. I don't see why we can't continue to evolve to be better in this or any other respect.
 

KimCoppolaAficionado

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Its a pretty common criticism of modern cluture that people expect a brain and a computer to act simlarly when they have fundamentally different mechanics in practice. There are some people out there who's brains seem to act like computers; they are generally the higher-up executives and policy makers who assume the rest of the human population can just be bent over backwards like they are. Besides, you ask why its manifesting as depression and not seizures or other issues? Perhaps it is manifesting as those issues, and depression is merely the most common symptom. Its been noted that schizophrenia occurs more often in large cities than in rural locations, for instance.
Correlation is not causation. I have heard arguments that the reason mental illness occurs in cities is because people were never supposed to interact with more than 150 people in their life.


And your statement effectively boils down to "There has never been a final age, so therefore there never will be a final age." If I was able to produce proof of a final age, neither of us would logically be present to debate it.
I am saying that when 500 men proclaim the end of time for similar reasons, and 499 of them have been wrong, it gives no reason to expect the 500th to be right.

However, I don't think this necessarily has to be the final age. If we would utilize our technology properly to fix the gaps and issues that human memory and human cognition has had since the beginning, then we could move forward. I don't believe enough interest currently exists in doing so, and i find it unlikely that such interest ever will. Arguements like the one above are what makes me believe people will not take issues like this seriously and will generally dismiss any negativity out of hand, thus being the ultimate cause of why we're fucked in the first place.
If you're talking about the use of in vitro nootropics and soft eugenics to improve memory ability; I think that is a matter of inevitable forces; as the methods cheapen, people will naturally be driven to improving the health of their children.
 

Shadfan666xxx000

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I don't understand this. Even if we assume that this world is hellish and terrible in nearly every way (and I don't think it is) that wouldn't preclude the possibility of there being other ways of existing or different realms of experience. I'm not religious myself, but I fail to understand how the existence of unpleasantness would prevent spiritual or mental growth. If anything, discomfort seems to facilitate religious experience, for example Jesus on the cross or Buddha under his tree. Even from a biological level, its quite clear that there are different levels of consciousness, an ant isn't as conscious as a mouse which isn't as conscious as a human. I don't see why we can't continue to evolve to be better in this or any other respect.
What I have in mind isn't necessarily the individualists who strive for self betterment or that communal type who just want to help in their small way. I speak of the wide eyed reformer who will swear up and down that the world will become better if we institute a new law or those people who will preach up and down about the sanctity of some vague moral belief in efficiency, tolerance or discipline because of some belief in being "part of something bigger". Such people become either strict enforcers of some order we all know has bullshit under its rug or they conform like nothing else and fold to nothing like the sheepdog and sheep metaphor.
 

L50LasPak

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Correlation is not causation. I have heard arguments that the reason mental illness occurs in cities is because people were never supposed to interact with more than 150 people in their life.

I still see no reason to doubt that overloading a person with information leads to problems. Or at least leads to problems in the average person. Like I said, there are some out there who can handle it just fine. I don't believe this applies to the majority of people.

I am saying that when 500 men proclaim the end of time for similar reasons, and 499 of them have been wrong, it gives no reason to expect the 500th to be right.

I'm not reading from a prophecy, I'm pointing out that we're in over our heads and potentially too stupid to solve the problem. You might as well argue that human ineptitude can do no lasting damage with that way of thinking.

If you're talking about the use of in vitro nootropics and soft eugenics to improve memory ability; I think that is a matter of inevitable forces; as the methods cheapen, people will naturally be driven to improving the health of their children.

There have been various solutions used and proposed over the years. Right now the primary method is to just drug people so they can focus better, which in my opinion is a stopgap. Other things like genetic modification, neural regeneration and computer-brain interfaces remain in the realm of science fiction, but I don't believe we will make it that far without significant support from the population. If we never acknowledge that something is wrong, then nobody will ever identify it or bother with working towards a solution.
 

Classist.

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What I have in mind isn't necessarily the individualists who strive for self betterment or that communal type who just want to help in their small way. I speak of the wide eyed reformer who will swear up and down that the world will become better if we institute a new law or those people who will preach up and down about the sanctity of some vague moral belief in efficiency, tolerance or discipline because of some belief in being "part of something bigger". Such people become either strict enforcers of some order we all know has bullshit under its rug or they conform like nothing else and fold to nothing like the sheepdog and sheep metaphor.
I'm not sure if I totally understood, so I'll try my best. Those sorts of people totally exist and are quite common. I think that most of them are either insecure, naturally socially cohesive, afraid of standing out of the crowd, or some combination of these. I don't think that that they're evil or even wrong it's just that they're conformists. The vast majority of people will do whatever is the popular and 'moral' thing even if those morals flip very fast (Wiemar Germany's transformation into the Third Reich is a textbook example of this). There are several ways to react to this I think. Off the top of my head: You could just go along with the show and have fun with it, see things like you're an actor on a grand stage with your life as a performance. You could live on your own, and to whatever level you realistically can eschew wider society in the pursuit of self autonomy. Or you could try and build your own system, whether its a religion or a state or even a friend group really doesn't matter, and try something totally new to see how it works out. There are all sorts of other options, what I'm trying to say is that this world we live in has a breathtaking number of ways for people like you or me or practically anyone else to avoid, mitigate, or at least control these negative aspects of society and I don't see how their existence is necessarily all that bad.
 

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The collapse is coming. Take the red pill and you'll see the depressing world we live in. With the rise of feminism, the family unit is destroyed and people rely on state to provide for them. We haven't moved past the industrial revolution, schooling systems are outdated and training people simply for slavery and corporate work. Corporations are running the show now, it's nearly impossible to start your own business. The 1% get richer while the poor get poorer. I doubt there will ever be a revolution of our time to make shit change... politicians are all corrupt.
Have fun...
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ToroidalBoat

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I posted this (rather pesssmistic) shitpost awhile back:

What if Current Year never ends?

Imagine that world in 3020:

Though people kept predicting the end of the world, it never ended. Climate change happened, but any effects were exaggerated. But disasters still happen on a local scale. There's still doomsday predictions too. Pretty much for every day. They all fail.

The whole world is one globalized strip mall. Everyone is fat and androgynous, and covered in tattoos. Everything is ridiculously overpriced, food is nothing but science lab chemicals, and pretty much no one lives in a house. Permanent work is ancient history.

"Woke" has become so commonplace, it's the natural way of thinking -- by 3020, the memory of Trump has eclipsed Hitler as the new Super Hitler. Having any fun has become very offensive.

Oil reserves ran dry, but fossil fuels are still used from other sources, such as shale. There's still no flying cars, and the electric car is still a novelty. Space travel is only done by little robots and satellites, and air travel is almost gone.

While technology has become ridiculously invasive and pervasive with brain-computer interfaces, the "Singularity" or an AI takeover never happened. Every single byte sent over the internet is tracked. Oh yeah, and everyone speaks English, which doesn't change much because of autocorrect. Aside from new buzzwords, which are coined ceaselessly.

And Kiwi Farms is somehow still around, laughing at it all.
 

Captain Chromosome

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Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone" says it pretty well. Quality of life and societal cohesion drops as a nation/city/town becomes more multicultural.
Capeshit obsessivism, excessive thottery, destruction of the sanctity of marriage, resurgence of sexual deviancy being pushed in the mainstream. Hedonism is manageable in a bottom text society, but only if it isn't the reigning mentality.
On a larger scale, why would anyone want to bring children into the world when they'll become a minority in their own nation? Might as well live for pleasure and tell at people on the Internet.
 

Whelp_Bai

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The error here is thinking that the complexity of the world has grown. In my eyes, the quality of leaders has gone down.
Personally, I think that we are entering a new era; a dissolution of the centralized world of the Industrial era and a return to the decentralized, connected-village model of the old days. But this dissolution, in my eyes, is not apocalyptic, but a promise of a future where people can live beside one another without the prison of enforced hierarchy. Will the transition be smooth? Most likely not; but the transition from empire to republic wasn't smooth, either.


If no other option presents itself. When the peasants did not get bread, they revolted until they did.
Ok but the average poor american is not a starving peasant. The lower and working classes have luxuries an Ottoman sultan would envy. Most hardships the poor face now is reletively new. Student loans, gigantic medical bills etc. I dont know if people are willing to bring out the guillotines over them.
 

Marco Fucko

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I agree that society has lost its way. We need some kind of external threat to unify the US. Something far off, something brown.
 

KimCoppolaAficionado

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Ok but the average poor american is not a starving peasant. The lower and working classes have luxuries an Ottoman sultan would envy. Most hardships the poor face now is reletively new. Student loans, gigantic medical bills etc. I dont know if people are willing to bring out the guillotines over them.
They will once the chains of debt-slavery around their wrists begin to chafe.