Souls Thread: Dark Souls, Demon Souls, Bloodborne -

BroccoliBrain

my corpus callosum is green
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I've gotten friends to play Souls with me and they always whine about how invasions are unfair, invasions suck, how it should be opt-in, the usual. Preaching to the choir here but I don't understand this mindset and think it's pretty poor of them to get so salty over an intended mechanic, it's not like the invader themselves hacked their way into the game to grief them with cheats. Maybe it's because they suck at PvP? I'm average at PvP at best but when I watch, one of them is a serial button masher in PvE and predictably gets owned in PvP. He rage quits. The other one seems like they don't quite gel with Souls. I don't wanna be that person who says GIT GUD but I'm seriously wondering how to tell them both "you suck at PvP, get better and you'll stop dying to invaders" without coming across as an asshole.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
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I've gotten friends to play Souls with me and they always whine about how invasions are unfair, invasions suck, how it should be opt-in, the usual. Preaching to the choir here but I don't understand this mindset and think it's pretty poor of them to get so salty over an intended mechanic, it's not like the invader themselves hacked their way into the game to grief them with cheats. Maybe it's because they suck at PvP? I'm average at PvP at best but when I watch, one of them is a serial button masher in PvE and predictably gets owned in PvP. He rage quits. The other one seems like they don't quite gel with Souls. I don't wanna be that person who says GIT GUD but I'm seriously wondering how to tell them both "you suck at PvP, get better and you'll stop dying to invaders" without coming across as an asshole.
Tell them to git gud.
 

Niggernerd

Hol up *siiiiiiiiip* nigga
True & Honest Fan
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I've gotten friends to play Souls with me and they always whine about how invasions are unfair, invasions suck, how it should be opt-in, the usual. Preaching to the choir here but I don't understand this mindset and think it's pretty poor of them to get so salty over an intended mechanic, it's not like the invader themselves hacked their way into the game to grief them with cheats. Maybe it's because they suck at PvP? I'm average at PvP at best but when I watch, one of them is a serial button masher in PvE and predictably gets owned in PvP. He rage quits. The other one seems like they don't quite gel with Souls. I don't wanna be that person who says GIT GUD but I'm seriously wondering how to tell them both "you suck at PvP, get better and you'll stop dying to invaders" without coming across as an asshole.
Tell them to quit bitching because invaders from other worlds is part of the lore. WE are the Dark Soul also tell them the legend of knight git gud.

Jokes aside tell them they just need to take time to find a fighting style that suits them, something they can smoothly use without a doubt. For me it's a mace/Parry buckler or two short swords for close quarters, Ultrasword/halberd + poison/lacerating knives for large open areas and long sword/rapier/spear for tight narrow spaces
Having a secondary shield thats only high magic/element resistant is always good to have too.
They should practice different types of weapons in offline story for a bit.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
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Yeah that's the thing. Being invaded is an opt-in thing. They've just probably been running through with 2-3 phantoms stunlocking everything. Which isn't even really playing the game.
 
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Jaimas

The Spoon Slayer
True & Honest Fan
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I've gotten friends to play Souls with me and they always whine about how invasions are unfair, invasions suck, how it should be opt-in, the usual. Preaching to the choir here but I don't understand this mindset and think it's pretty poor of them to get so salty over an intended mechanic, it's not like the invader themselves hacked their way into the game to grief them with cheats. Maybe it's because they suck at PvP? I'm average at PvP at best but when I watch, one of them is a serial button masher in PvE and predictably gets owned in PvP. He rage quits. The other one seems like they don't quite gel with Souls. I don't wanna be that person who says GIT GUD but I'm seriously wondering how to tell them both "you suck at PvP, get better and you'll stop dying to invaders" without coming across as an asshole.
I think the biggest issue is that you're coming in from the position of a Souls veteran. You're expecting them to be able to handle themselves against invaders, who, more than likely, have much more experience with the game than either one of them, if not both combined. Ignoring things like PVP lag making simply observing the fight unreliable for determining what went wrong. Telling them to Git Gud at this point is just begging them to give you the finger and go play literally any other game. Their anger is not because they don't like Souls from what you described; it's because they're getting frustrated by a mechanic whose sole purpose (to them) is to make their gameplay experience worse, and frustration is what leads to people giving up on games.

Whether or not the invader is cheating is not the reason they fucking hate it, though it's a definite contributing factor. My own first PVP encounter in Dark Souls 1 was a player using Megamule, coming in with almost-full-Havel's using a lightning rapier. I did single digit damage when I hit him, double digit on a riposte, and he killed me through my 100% physical resist shield in less than 5 hits. They're probably not running into these (or their related species, the player who invades you in the burg, spams poison knives, then runs away while you slowly die). But they likely are running into players much more experienced than them, in areas where they can't possibly defend themselves (Blighttown, for instance), when they're still trying to get a handle on navigating the world. They don't learn anything from getting their shit punched in by some experienced dipshit with designs on the prize between their thighs, less so if they get griefed.

What you need to teach them to do is to screw back. Any running magic-users? Hotrun them to Dusk and get them Chameleon. Instruct them to use that shit to hide if they get invaded until the invader leaves. I've survived so many times due to that it isn't funny. Show them the best places to disguise themselves as the enemies. Show them where to use the Ring of Fog to hide on some random platform in Tomb of Giants and laugh at whoever the fuck is looking for them. Any like spears? Get them a greatshield and teach them to use the doorway bunker. Invaded in Sen's Fortress? Show them how to hide where the Giant near the gate is using the fog ring. Don't tell them to Git Gud, show them how to have fun making the invasion as unfun as humanly possible for the invader so the invader chooses to black crystal out or yeet themselves off a cliff.

Also show them where the bonfires are. That shit's important.
 

desertfoxgoggles

a hot nazi with a machine gun for a chest
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Recently beat Dark Souls for the first time and loved it. I've beaten it a few times since on fresh new games and am at Anor Londo on my new game plus. No matter how much I try I can't get past using a decent spear or curved sword, light armor and magic. I just gotta go fast, yknow? Started up a game on Dark Souls 2 and 3. With 2 I'm a little unsure, I ran through the forest area and beat the giant and it was all pretty gravy but then everytime I went to explore, I'd get invaded. Fair enough but my damage is nothing on theirs and it is frustrating with all of the other enemies and constantly having to redo it because some people keep invading. I think it's more the frustration of not being anywhere near their armor/weapon/skill level. As for Dark Souls 3, I'm enjoying it. I like the call backs and I've been having a much better time of just playing with little interruption. I chose assassin because it suits me and so far no enemies have caused me any serious grief. I was terrified of the big armored dude patrolling a shit load of corpses but it turned out he was a little bitch.

I get the impression though that Dark Souls 1 is the best of the trilogy?
 

wtfNeedSignUp

kiwifarms.net
I think 1 is the best. 2 had unimpressive environments (except the dlc) and 3 felt too easy.
The plot of 2 and 3 was also a complete clusterfuck
 

InfamyBrah

Proud dad and proud of my dad bod.
kiwifarms.net
Recently beat Dark Souls for the first time and loved it. I've beaten it a few times since on fresh new games and am at Anor Londo on my new game plus. No matter how much I try I can't get past using a decent spear or curved sword, light armor and magic. I just gotta go fast, yknow? Started up a game on Dark Souls 2 and 3. With 2 I'm a little unsure, I ran through the forest area and beat the giant and it was all pretty gravy but then everytime I went to explore, I'd get invaded. Fair enough but my damage is nothing on theirs and it is frustrating with all of the other enemies and constantly having to redo it because some people keep invading. I think it's more the frustration of not being anywhere near their armor/weapon/skill level. As for Dark Souls 3, I'm enjoying it. I like the call backs and I've been having a much better time of just playing with little interruption. I chose assassin because it suits me and so far no enemies have caused me any serious grief. I was terrified of the big armored dude patrolling a shit load of corpses but it turned out he was a little bitch.

I get the impression though that Dark Souls 1 is the best of the trilogy?
Might be nostalgia bias and people starting with DS1. I started with DS3 and I think it's the best by far. Bosses are amazing, DLC is amazing, mechanics are the most refined, the plot is self-contained, it takes from Bloodborne a litte... The atmosphere is also crazy. It was a joy from beginning to end to me. DS1 I had too many problem with.


We'll see what Bluepoint bring to the table with their next title (wink)
 

Jaimas

The Spoon Slayer
True & Honest Fan
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One thing I need to bring up, especially in this current era, is the sheer number of Cheaters in Dark Souls. It's fucking ridiculous. Dark Souls 1 was pretty bad with the Bottomless Box glitch on console but Dark Souls 3 has this shit too and it's just as cancerous. And this is on Console, so I can only imagine how bad this is on PC.

Testing an build concept, in the Undead Settlement, I got invaded by a player. I was still embered up from the beginning of the game. I'm like level 22, with early-game shit. Bluebro arrives for backup, and after dipshit runs away to find the biggest group of enemies possible, we wait him out.

He approaches, we kick the shit out of him, and he takes chip damage from not just me, but from the Bluebro wailing away with a magic weapon buffed sword. Rarely a good sign. He backs off and heals. We wait until he engages us again. He backs off and heals. And this happens over and over again.

You're allowed a maximum of seven Estus when invading.
Naturally, this guy healed more than double the combined Estus total of me and my backup combined.

Unfortunately, this was not a one-off occurrence. This is now a shockingly regular event, even on Console, where it's become SOP for invaders to bring ten Siegbrau and a Divine Blessing, with literally hundreds of each item in reserve so they can have more when they invade again. Of course, the community pretends that having an endless supply of items of which there are, conservatively, about 4 per playthrough each is somehow perfectly acceptable behavior and everyone else just needs to git gud. They can use any defense they want: It's fucking cheating, and it's one of the numerous contributing factor to this game's die-off.

Shit like this ruins the fucking game for other people. A player who is playing the fair way cannot possibly take on a player who gets more than three times the amount of healing items and fully heals from all of them.
 

BroccoliBrain

my corpus callosum is green
kiwifarms.net
I know on Steam for Dark Souls 3 there was an exploit where hackers can hit you, instantly give you a billion souls and the game would auto-kick you and ban you from the servers.

FROM did nothing about it.
I've been banned twice from hackers dropping in and fucking me up like that, I legitimately get nightmares where I start up the game, log in and see the [YOU HAVE BEEN PENALIZED] message.
even on Console, where it's become SOP for invaders to bring ten Siegbrau and a Divine Blessing
Having more Estus is blatant CE cheating but imo this is kind of a grey area since it's a natural game exploit that anyone can pull off, all you need to do to dupe is hand over your items you want to copy to a friend then quit before it saves (and thus records your new inventory state), then both of you have it. All it takes is time.
 
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Jaimas

The Spoon Slayer
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I've been banned twice from hackers dropping in and fucking me up like that, I legitimately get nightmares where I start up the game, log in and see the [YOU HAVE BEEN PENALIZED] message.

Having more Estus is blatant CE cheating but imo this is kind of a grey area since it's a natural game exploit that anyone can pull off, all you need to do to dupe is hand over your items you want to copy to a friend then quit before it saves (and thus records your new inventory state), then both of you have it. All it takes is time.
Item handoffs to a player are one thing, but this is the kind of shit that feeds anything resembling game balance into the fucking paper shredder.

You flat-out cannot win against someone doing this (unless they're fucking awful) if you are playing normally. Not only will they be invading you with equipment far beyond your ken - a nasty but not unbeatable scenario - they're now able to have more healing than you and your phantoms combined. At least in DS1, where you could heal via Humanity, you could easily farm that shit. Spend an hour in the Depths and you'd get like a dozen or more. Moreover, you could also do it as the host.
 

BroccoliBrain

my corpus callosum is green
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@Jaimas Oh, twinks are just fun killers, I agree. At some point I might as well just use CE myself and blatantly turn on invincibility if that happens again, the last time I did that against an irritating hacker I never saw such a fast grab for the Black Crystal. By the way, thanks for telling me what I should be teaching my newbs, I knew I was missing something but couldn't quite grasp the better alternative. I'll try and grab the rage quitter friend at a better time because I told him he needs to prepare himself for invaders shitting on his head and he went ":mad: well I dun like that". I think giving away the Obscuring Ring and those bombs you throw behind yourself are a good start.

I know on Steam for Dark Souls 3 there was an exploit where hackers can hit you, instantly give you a billion souls and the game would auto-kick you and ban you from the servers.

FROM did nothing about it.
My memory is a bit fuzzy but they can hit you to give you funky bannable effects in general, not just "illegal" amounts of souls (it's not so much the amount but how you received them). I'm mostly angry at the fact that this gets you banned, but somehow whatever hackers do to place weird effects on their weapons goes undetected. What the fuck?

If people aren't doing it already, I recommend religiously backing up your save as often as you can so that you can roll back the moment you smell something funny. There are also watchdogs and anticheat mods for DS3 but use at your own risk, I've never tried them.
 
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BrunoMattei

Vincent Dawn
True & Honest Fan
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@Jaimas Oh, twinks are just fun killers, I agree. At some point I might as well just use CE myself and blatantly turn on invincibility if that happens again, the last time I did that against an irritating hacker I never saw such a fast grab for the Black Crystal. By the way, thanks for telling me what I should be teaching my newbs, I knew I was missing something but couldn't quite grasp the better alternative. I'll try and grab the rage quitter friend at a better time because I told him he needs to prepare himself for invaders shitting on his head and he went ":mad: well I dun like that". I think giving away the Obscuring Ring and those bombs you throw behind yourself are a good start.


My memory is a bit fuzzy but they can hit you to give you funky bannable effects in general, not just "illegal" amounts of souls (it's not so much the amount but how you received them). I'm mostly angry at the fact that this gets you banned, but somehow whatever hackers do to place weird effects on their weapons goes undetected. What the fuck?

If people aren't doing it already, I recommend religiously backing up your save as often as you can so that you can roll back the moment you smell something funny. There are also watchdogs and anticheat mods for DS3 but use at your own risk, I've never tried them.
I just don't play online. Which loses some of the experience I know.
 
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KingofNothing

Arise, Sir Leg of Lamb
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I haven't played Dark Souls in a very long time, but I preferred invading with a gimmick and not doing bullshit twink builds that just exist to bully newbs. That's boring. Suiting up as the Iron Golem with his axe and chasing people around Sen's Funhouse was a great time and they get a preview of the boss. A lot of people don't expect the shockwave. Although I will admit I got a lot of mileage messing with people in the Catacombs and flipping bridges while they crossed over. Got quite a bit of hate mail from that stunt.
 

Jaimas

The Spoon Slayer
True & Honest Fan
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I haven't played Dark Souls in a very long time, but I preferred invading with a gimmick and not doing bullshit twink builds that just exist to bully newbs. That's boring. Suiting up as the Iron Golem with his axe and chasing people around Sen's Funhouse was a great time and they get a preview of the boss. A lot of people don't expect the shockwave. Although I will admit I got a lot of mileage messing with people in the Catacombs and flipping bridges while they crossed over. Got quite a bit of hate mail from that stunt.
Thematic or meme invasions were the high point of Dark Souls gameplay for me, @KidKitty, and several other friends. Some highlights:

"Friendly Invasions" - KidKitty would spawn into other players' worlds, open doors and shutters and shortcuts, drop moss and humanity, and then kill himself. Typically he would be armed with two bows and would be doing this sort of dumb little shuffle-dance with no ammo while he did it.

"Operation Save the Trees" - We'd all gather up in Darkroot Garden, use Chameleon, and wait for invasions. When invaders reached the top of the hill near the bridge, we'd all pop out doing the Praise the Sun emote and then run off the cliff as fast as we could.

"Skeleton Sunbro" - My faith build used to drop White Signs in Anor Londo, after getting the Darkwraith Covenant to max and getting a full set of armor for it. I would often drop spare Dark Hands for people and would protect them from invaders and help them fight Pikachu and Snorlax. "Thank you, Skeleton Bro" was a common XBLM message after I did this.

"Sen's Fortress Dance Party" - We'd all gather up on the roof, lay down prism stones and dance with the Channeler's Trident.


"Disguise Invasions" - In DS2 we'd kill single enemies, put on their clothes, and stand in their positions. Then when someone invaded we'd just watch and wait and savor the invader's aggravation. Apparently KidKitty and I weren't the only one doing this, as evidenced by the above.
 

Jaimas

The Spoon Slayer
True & Honest Fan
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I've been doing a DS3 run and I have a weird experience to relate. I was going through the game normally and at Farron Keep, I went after the Abyss Watchers, only for a Darkwraith from outside to follow me into the room. He then started meleeing the Watchers and completely kicked their ass, basically no-selling the entire first half of the boss for me.

Absolutely bizarre.
 

Dom Cruise

kiwifarms.net
So far I've played and beaten Dark Souls 1 and Sekiro.

I loved both, although honestly I kind of like them despite the high difficulty, I like them because of the great game design, they'd still be great games to me even if they were a lot easier.

Although Dark Souls 1 I felt was for the most part a very good level of difficulty, rarely did I get frustrated, with the one big exception being Ornstein and Smough, which was an absolute fucking nightmare that I don't even really know how I managed to beat (to be clear, I beat them on my own without any help), that was the one time I felt the game went a little too far.

Sekiro on the other hand I felt was just a bit too difficult, a lot of frustration with that one, though mostly with the bosses, the levels felt mostly tough but fair like Dark Souls 1 but some of the bosses are absolute nightmares.

I appreciate a challenge and you do get a great sense of satisfaction when you succeed but it can get pretty stressful and exhausting, the main appeal to me is simply that they "feel" very much like Japanese games of the PS2 era, just with more advanced tech, like games from an alternate dimension where things stayed in the spirit of the 6th gen.

Hopefully soon I will finally play Bloodborne.
 
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