South China Sea and Chinese Military Developments - While everyone is distracted by the pandemic, China's aggression in the SCS grows.

[The golden neckbeard]

I couldn't say. But at the moment China doesn't exactly have any leeway with me in terms of trustworthiness. They've been an exceptionally bad neighbor over the last 18 months despite their normal belligerence. As for the seeds themselves, I kind of suspect you wouldn't be able to see anything strange about them without a microscope and testing equipment.

Which is the entire point.

If it was some kind of invasive species ploy, they would want grandma to plant these cute seeds she got in the mail.

Wel

So, I've been seeing people theorizing that Russia comes to the aid of China in a theoretical war, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. China isn't just a shitty neighbor in South East Asia, they've been on Russia's shit-list ever since Stalin croaked. That's not even mentioning recent galaxy brain moves by China, like declaring Vladivostok Chinese soil. Is it just boomers who never got the message that the Cold War is over and think the Second-World is still some United Bloc?

Why would Russia side with us?

We do nothing but surround it even more. Russians believe NATO is an existential threat.

At the very least Russia remains nuetral.

 

[Atomic Wangler]

Why would Russia side with us?

We do nothing but surround it even more. Russians believe NATO is an existential threat.

At the very least Russia remains nuetral.

Oh, I never said they would side with America, but I wouldn't be surprised if they made a land grab on parts of north east China and nobody gives a particular shit at the time. Afterall, Russia loves having warm water ports.

 

[Consenticles]

So, I've been seeing people theorizing that Russia comes to the aid of China in a theoretical war, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. China isn't just a shitty neighbor in South East Asia, they've been on Russia's shit-list ever since Stalin croaked. That's not even mentioning recent galaxy brain moves by China, like declaring Vladivostok Chinese soil. Is it just boomers who never got the message that the Cold War is over and think the Second-World is still some United Bloc?

People forget that Russia flipped sides in ww2. I think this in itself sets a precedent that Russia will do whatever it feels will benefit it the most.

To count them among China's allies is stupid, given the animosity between both countries. Were China to fall, Russia would likely have a large swath of territorial gains. You must think in terms of what the prizes would be. It would not be so much Russia being friendly with the US/Europe, but more a general animosity for an aggressive, out of control neighbor.

I see Russia more likely to join against China, given that Putin thinks in terms of the long term end goals. He is a sly fox who will put Russia in the position most likely to come out as a victor. After such a war, I would expect nothing less than Russia going back to being a boogeyman.

But Russia would have far more to gain by claiming manchurian soil for themselves, as a sort of victory gift. They need more ports, and having access to the South China Sea in any greater capacity would be enormously in their interests.

You must consider what they would have to gain, were the EU and US to fall. The EU would leave much of Europe vulnerable to be taken as a prize, but there are still many countries that would act as a buffer. Too many small countries would want a piece of the pie. China is so, so much bigger and easier to draw lines to divide up shares of the country.

 

[The golden neckbeard]

People forget that Russia flipped sides in ww2. I think this in itself sets a precedent that Russia will do whatever it feels will benefit it the most.

To count them among China's allies is stupid, given the animosity between both countries. Were China to fall, Russia would likely have a large swath of territorial gains. You must think in terms of what the prizes would be. It would not be so much Russia being friendly with the US/Europe, but more a general animosity for an aggressive, out of control neighbor.

I see Russia more likely to join against China, given that Putin thinks in terms of the long term end goals. He is a sly fox who will put Russia in the position most likely to come out as a victor. After such a war, I would expect nothing less than Russia going back to being a boogeyman.

But Russia would have far more to gain by claiming manchurian soil for themselves, as a sort of victory gift. They need more ports, and having access to the South China Sea in any greater capacity would be enormously in their interests.

You must consider what they would have to gain, were the EU and US to fall. The EU would leave much of Europe vulnerable to be taken as a prize, but there are still many countries that would act as a buffer. Too many small countries would want a piece of the pie. China is so, so much bigger and easier to draw lines to divide up shares of the country.

Russia switches sides? After decades of the west destabilizing and boxing them in and plundering their economy?

Nope. Putin is neutral and probably selling to china at the very least. Look at Syria. They actively are trying to kick us out of the region.

 

[Return of the Freaker]

Russia switches sides? After decades of the west destabilizing and boxing them in and plundering their economy?

Nope. Putin is neutral and probably selling to china at the very least. Look at Syria. They actively are trying to kick us out of the region.

Russia initially allied with Nazi Germany and agreed to split Poland with them. Then Germany broke their pact and invaded. China hasn't done anything quite that bad yet. But they've already made the big brained gamer move of claiming Russia's Pacific naval hub is theirs.

 

[The golden neckbeard]

Russia initially allied with Nazi Germany and agreed to split Poland with them. Then Germany broke their pact and invaded. China hasn't done anything quite that bad yet. But they've already made the big brained gamer move of claiming Russia's Pacific naval hub is theirs.

Thats horseshit.

If you can point me to a legit source the chinese government claimed Russian territory and the Russians didnt bother responding please do so.

Ill wait


Russia wont be taking on the side of the west. Sorry. Thats why they are doing snap drills in ukraine and have 200,000 troops on the border. They are probably waiting for china to kick it off first.

Same with North Korea. They abruptly canceled all talks months ago for no reason. This is a coordinated alliance already formed.

 

[HumanHive]

Russia initially allied with Nazi Germany and agreed to split Poland with them. Then Germany broke their pact and invaded. China hasn't done anything quite that bad yet. But they've already made the big brained gamer move of claiming Russia's Pacific naval hub is theirs.

China claims Vladivostok for the same reason Germany claimed Danzig - it’s historically Chinese territory.
But Russia claimed it in the 1700’s, so we’re talking some long term butthurt. They probably expect Russia to decline along with the rest of Europe.

 

[I can't imagine]

At the very least Russia remains nuetral.

Nope. Putin is neutral and probably selling to china at the very least. Look at Syria. They actively are trying to kick us out of the region.

Russia wont be taking on the side of the west. Sorry. Thats why they are doing snap drills in ukraine and have 200,000 troops on the border. They are probably waiting for china to kick it off first.

Same with North Korea. They abruptly canceled all talks months ago for no reason. This is a coordinated alliance already formed.

It's impressive that Russia went from possibly neutral, to probably selling to China, to being full-blown allies waiting for their orders from Beijing. All in a few hours.

 

[PS1gamenwatch]

It's impressive that Russia went from possibly neutral, to probably selling to China, to being full-blown allies waiting for their orders from Beijing. All in a few hours.

It’s a waiting game for Russia, most of their concerns are only of their interests and their interests only. And of course there are still people that still see them as the Soviets/threat to the US and EU and that vindicates and emboldens them more to play a narrative that the world is against them so they kinda go with it, as it unites them/justifies them taking some territory.

 

[Atomic Wangler]

It’s a waiting game for Russia, most of their concerns are only of their interests and their interests only. And of course there are still people that still see them as the Soviets/threat to the US and EU and that vindicates and emboldens them more to play a narrative that the world is against them so they kinda go with it, as it unites them/justifies them taking some territory.

There's also the fact that 21st century Russia is less belligerent, or at least more plausibly deniable, in their foreign affairs than modern China, though that's not much of a bar to clear. Sure you occasionally have a 2008 Georgia invasion or activity in Ukraine, but that always gets chalked down to protecting Russian interests or backing off when Russia draws too much heat. China on the other hand is constantly coming up with new ways to piss off all of their neighbors and most of the world seemingly daily.

So, I guess I don't see what Russia, a country that likes to keep it's scheming on the down low, has to gain from teaming up with the national equivalent of the new-money rich brat that no one likes.

 

[Consenticles]

Russia wont be taking on the side of the west. Sorry. Thats why they are doing snap drills in ukraine and have 200,000 troops on the border. They are probably waiting for china to kick it off first.

Same with North Korea. They abruptly canceled all talks months ago for no reason. This is a coordinated alliance already formed.

Allow me to help you understand Russia's position, unblemished by western media sources. I have family still living over there, a brother in the Navy, and we talk occasionally about these things.

The nature of Russian politics and the military in the last two decades under Putin has been mainly to gently poke the sleeping bear that is Europe, seeing how far they can get while trying to consolidate lost territory. Crimea, Chechnya, Ukraine, is all a fine examples of this. They all but run Kazakhstan, via military influence.

The final territories I expect Putin is eyeing are those of the Baltic states and the land connecting Kaliningrad to the mainland. But these re far too high of a risk to invade, given they are EU members.

Ukraine has pretty much been sliced along the river, the Dneiper. Long has it been suspected that this is the boundary line which Russia will not cross in fear of retribution from the EU.



Easy to find the Dneiper, yes?

I expect those Russian troops in Ukraine will move to the Dneiper and no further, but are there to occupy the corridor and port in its entirety. It is a large area with a main corridor into the black sea, of which Crimea sits directly west of. The smaller sea which it is connected to, which Russia wishes to occupy on all sides, is the Sea of Azov. Russia wants to control both the left and right side of this corridor.


They have said in this thread that China likes to give off the impression that they are playing the long game. While that may be true of their economic goals, their military goals are sloppy and rushed, emboldened by the world's dependence on consumer goods. The BRI will only strengthen their hold, consolidating supply lines and ports, so that they control every aspect of the industry in an effort to box other nations out.

If China can be considered a master of the economic long game, then I would most definitely consider Russia very patient when it comes to their territorial pursuits. Everyone knows they want the old territories back. They are just doing it slowly and covertly enough that Europe finds other matters to deal with.

So we have Russia's motives, their end goals, but this is just a single piece to take into consideration. To understand where Russia would find itself if a war between the US and Chins broke out, we must look at the history between these countries first.

Despite what many may think, communist Russia and Communist China did not like each other. Russia spread the ideaology, but Mao and Stalin were not buddies. Far from it, as both wished to be presented as the top dog and world leader when it came to their brands of communism. Maoism vs Stalinism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_split

The Sino-Soviet split (1956–1966) was the breaking of political relations between the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR), caused by doctrinal divergences that arose from their different interpretations and practical applications of Marxism–Leninism, as influenced by their respective geopolitics during the Cold War (1945–1991).[2] In the late 1950s and early 1960s, Sino-Soviet debates about the interpretation of orthodox Marxism became specific disputes about the USSR's policies of national de-Stalinization and international peaceful coexistence with the Western world, which Mao decried as Marxist revisionism. Against that ideological background, China took a belligerent stance towards the West, and publicly rejected the USSR's policy of peaceful coexistence between the Eastern bloc and the Western bloc.[2] In addition, China resented the closer Soviet ties with India, and Moscow feared Mao was too nonchalant about the horrors of nuclear war.[3]

One must also remember that Russia invaded manchuria, which is historically part of china, before AND during ww2. I had a great grandfather who fought over there in the red army and lost his hand.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_invasion_of_Manchuria (late 1800s)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Manchuria (1945)

In ww2, China and its neighbors were under the thumb of the Japanese, but I assure you that the red army did not give a shit whether someone was Japanese or Chinese. there is a lot of animosity about this still.



Russia and the US did not get off on the right foot post ww2, but there was a brief moment where I believe, had it not been for diplomatic incompetence from the newly installed administration in the US, things could have been less icy. They would have clashed, but I think much of the relationship was due to a very poor first impression.

Today Russia and China both run massive campaigns to weaken western countries, as the western countries do toward them. It is the modern warfare. The United States is the big dog, and if they can crack the country in two by stirring up internl tensions, it becomes far less powerful.

Now let's go back to present day Russia-China. The relationship is still tense. But there is no doubt Russia plays ball with then. They re reliant on Chinese production, just as the rest of the world does. Hell, I would not be surprised if they even tried to come off as having a positive relationship with China, as it emboldens and strengthens both countries. But war is far different than manipulating the players around you during peacetime.

So what would happen if China started an actual war?

Given what we know, and the way both countries continue to grin and bare eachother in the media, I don't think Russia would jump in right away on either side. They would wait for all the players and initial attacks to be revealed before making any decisions. Decisions which will be solely based on which has the better optics for victory, and which prize is best for Russia.

To ally with China against the US may mean they acquire Alaska, or perhaps some eastern european territory. Those Baltic states I mentioned. Good land, but strategically it isnt anything they don't already have in Siberia and the port of Kaliningrad (their coveted prize for siding with the allies in ww2).



I mean check this out, it is a really unique natural formation. I admit most of my in depth knowledge pertains to the study of Pagan Old Prussia and the Northern Crusades, so this area is is dear to me.

Perhaps US tensions will push them into the arms of China? Could very well happen, but I don't think Russia would pass over an even better prize, should they have the opportunity to take Chinese territory.

For one, they border China, so the claims would be a lot simpler to press and maintain. More importantly, weakening China gives them an opportunity to control a large chunk of the world's busiest shipping corridor in the SCS.

Given that Russia joined the allies to obtain Kaliningrad's strategic port, I see this as somewhat of a precedent, in that a SCS port may be very hard to resist.

If we consider history further, we can see that Russia joined Germany in ww2 in order to take Polish territory, which would also give access to a baltic port. Kaliningrad was not as large of a prize, but the city has historical significance and natural defense fortifications in its Vistula Lagoon.

I think Russia's past behavior of changing sides gives us a good look at what they may be thinking here. At first Nazi Germany looked to win, and so the alliance was a win for Russia. But then Germany decided to attack them, yet Russia had no issue with changing sides and fighting alongside the very enemies they once aimed to destroy. Would it be so strange to think that they could come to the side of the US once again, were the outcome looking bleak for China?

Furthermore, let us examine what would be lost, if Russia were to choose incorrectly: China more than likely takes a great deal of Siberian land that is undeveloped and inhospitable. And if China takes this, then it still isn't as bad as the alternative, for the land itself is almost a buffer zone between Russia and China. Vladivostok (of which, interestingly enough, China's media mouthpiece has disputed their own historical claim upon this port recently) would be their worst loss, and thus their direct access to the SCS area.


But as you may see, the area is not developed, as there is too little infrastructure to benefit from exporting from this post. The distance from Moscow, or the nearest industrial center, is too far. Would they take a few Chinese cities with factories nearby, I could see this city becoming a central hub. I could see them wanting the land between the sea and Mongolia, should they get to choose.

On the flip side, were they to lose as allies of China, their most important strategic gains in the last century would almost definitely be taken. Russia's claim over Kaliningrad, while valid, is historically weak. Lithuania, Poland, and even Germany have strong claims on the territory.

Spoiler: Sperging about the Kaliningrad Question

I must admit I am tempted to dive more into this and give my opinion - Kaliningrad has been under Old Prussian rule, then it was a Teutonic State that answered directly to the Pope. Then Germany (who called themselves "Prussia," yet let it be known there is no actual relation to Old Prussians, the name comes from geographical claims ) took it, the area being the capital of East Prussia (Ost Prussen), and finally to Russia.

The original inhabitants, during the time of these Northern Crusades fled to the Kingdom of Lithuania, as they were pagans. The Old Prussians are not Germanic peoples, but a very rare subset of Baltic tribes that has nearly gone extinct. For this reason, I find Lithuania's claim to be most valid, were the region to be handed to another country. But due to its history as itself an independent state, I rather think that autonomy suits it best.

But back to the point- the second concession that would be demanded of Russia, were the European powersand US to defeat them, would most definitely be Crimea...... which would be a nail in the coffin in terms of trying to gain strength economically. Their easy access to the world changes, and suddenly they will be met with substantial fees to use the corridors that once were theirs.

China is being extremely aggressive in its territorial pursuits, and I could see that out of control nature pissing Putin off. I almost see Russia at this point as a large force which will make the pendulum sway one way or another.

Bottom line: Russia does what is best for it's own survival, time and time again throughout history. This will be no different. Expect them not to choose a side immediately, but to wait for the initial fog of war to clear.

 

[корона-тян]

Bottom line: Russia does what is best for it's own survival, time and time again throughout history. This will be no different. Expect them not to choose a side immediately, but to wait for the initial fog of war to clear.

Very good breakdown. An addendum from a Siberian perspective - there's a lot of pent up resentment towards the chinese among the populous, and a bunch of eye closing and bribes at the gov level due to illegal sales of natural resources such as wood. Allowing chinese corps to run illegal logging operations in the taiga, and then using that as a pretext to go fuck you china when it suits Russia is entirely a Russian gov thing to do.

These are two very old empires that have had contact for longer than the west and china. They've played this game before, and they will continue to play this game. It's a sticky situation, to say the least.

 

[Consenticles]

Very good breakdown. An addendum from a Siberian perspective - there's a lot of pent up resentment towards the chinese among the populous, and a bunch of eye closing and bribes at the gov level due to illegal sales of natural resources such as wood. Allowing chinese corps to run illegal logging operations in the taiga, and then using that as a pretext to go fuck you china when it suits Russia is entirely a Russian gov thing to do.

I have a cousin from Partizansk, former gulag territory just east of Vladistovok. This sounds very much like what Russia would do. Honestly it sounds like something the US would do as well. They both run quite a similar playbook.

Up there are also some NK labor camps, completely isolated and under contract of the Russian gov. Creepy stuff, with Nk propaganda posters and everything.

It just shows further proof that Russia does not have the infrastructure to capitalize on the port city of Vladivostok. They cannot sustain a huge population, nor justify building an industrial complex. Not with the distance from Moscow and any other meaningful city. They are opting to import labor for how, but this could change if they were to take over a great deal of Manchuria. Which I have labelled below on a map which displays Chinese cities with a population of over 0.8 mil. Aka cities with infrastructure that Russia would be happy to evict all occupants before claiming the territory as their own. Should it happen, the eviction process will almost certainly be assured, as that is what they did with the Germans in Kaliningrad. I imagine if the Germans stayed and mingled with the influx of Russians (of which my great grand father was one of the many to move there on exchange for a dacha we still have today) the region would not be so compliant.



Obviously we can see that this is close to Bejing, far too close for comfort for the Chinese, especially if in war China must concede Manchuria (basically the area I have labelled), and that Russian border moves around where I have drawn.

As it stands, Vladivostok is not an ideal staging ground for an invasion given the environment and total lack of infrastructure, but it is a clearly exploitable weakness for the Chinese, should the Russians choose to be enemies of the Chinese. No doubt, when the Chinese are playing nice with Russia, they have this weakness in mind - a border that is much less of a risk on the occasion that the Chinese invade Russia, vs Russians invading China.

I cannot help but continue to draw parallels to ww2, given that the Russians basically divided Germany's army into two fronts. I can see this happening in a future war scenario, the US coming from the south and Russia using this Manchurian corridor to invade from the north, directly into Bejing, not in unsimilar to Berlin.

These are two very old empires that have had contact for longer than the west and china. They've played this game before, and they will continue to play this game. It's a sticky situation, to say the least.

Many people in the US focus very hard on the present day tensions. The more recent historical events. But Russia and China are ancient, in comparison north America is like a toddler. Their perceptions are based on hundreds, of not nearly a thousand years of interactions.

Recent history can be irrelevant. For example, Peter the Great, waaay back in the late 1600s, stated that one of his greatest ambitions for Russia was to gain a warm water port.

Putin has this near the very top of his own list of goals. In fact, there are a lot of similarities between these two in terms of aspirations and strategy. Peter was a RABID expansionist, claiming ports along the Baltic Sea and Sea of Azov. Which are coincidentally similar to Kaliningrad and Crimea, two territories Russia has taken in the last century.

He modernized Russia a great deal during a time where it had fallen behind its European counterparts. While his attempts to build good favor with European powers failed miserably, he earned the "great" moniker because he brought Russia on equal footing with the most powerful countries in the world. Mainly this was done through embracing science and maritime pursuits.

While I do not think Putin and Peter are the same in many facets, it is their gameplan which mirrors each other quite well. Philosophically they have many differences, but the goals and reasons behind it are quite similar.

Hope I have not gone too off topic here. I enjoy discussing these two countries.

 

[muh_moobs]

Hard to know if it's another strategy from China but this one raise some eyebrows. https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/nation-world/national/article244479272.html

http://archive.vn/VMgLq

Wow.

Psy-Op for sure.

1) We have the personal information of a bunch of your personal citizens and can compromise their identities at any time.

2) People plant seeds, fuck up local ecology.

3) Anyone who knows even a little bit about prepping knows to buy seeds to be prepared to rebuild after the bombs drop. This is basically a threat to the US government to be ready.

Wow.

Only to get around India’s recent boycott push. Intent is to produce for India’s domestic market, not to export.

That could change, of course.

Likely will. Selling cheap Iphones to a billion people will very quickly finance the construction of another factory for export demands.

So, I've been seeing people theorizing that Russia comes to the aid of China in a theoretical war, but I can't for the life of me figure out why. China isn't just a shitty neighbor in South East Asia, they've been on Russia's shit-list ever since Stalin croaked. That's not even mentioning recent galaxy brain moves by China, like declaring Vladivostok Chinese soil. Is it just boomers who never got the message that the Cold War is over and think the Second-World is still some United Bloc?

I think the theory is that USSR won't want NATO forces so close to home. With all of the chink factories and military material and personnel captures, it would make a leapfrog into Russia as easy as it would have been if Churchill had his way at the end of WWII.

Im just saying i got them and tossed them

You think there is a sinister reason behind the seeds? They looked normal to me.

Good job. Now they'll just grow in the landfill when the packaging breaks down.

Allow me to help you understand Russia's position

The only point of what you've laid out that I disagree with is mainland China being split in such a way that would give the USSR direct access to SCS. Real Original China will want their country, or as much of it as possible, back. I think the border, which you in a way alluded to, would be cut like this.

This gives the USSR direct access to the East China Sea so they could go to sea directly instead of sailing around Japan. Likewise they would still gain direct access to the SCS via the space between Taiwan and the Philippines.

Edit: Nope. No way ROC/NATO give Beijing to the USSR.

@Consenticles 's map is a better border. Unless in the new order of things ROC/NATO hand it over to stall a future war with the USSR as long as possible.

 

[heathercho]

Beanie Man speculates that a "coin shortage" in the US correlates to the gov needing metal for guns, coz a war with China is looming.

It made me roll my eyes...a lot, because he fails to remember that places aren't accepting cash due to the coof. That's why you have a coin shortage, you beanie wearing numbskull.

 

[Atomic Wangler]

Yes Tim Pool, we really have so little copper, nickle and zinc that we need to stop making coins so we can build tanks out of pennies.

I've been trying to learn about modern Chinese military tactics and strategies, but outside of Tiananmen Square and primeval warfare with India, I can't find any solid answers. Is there combat doctrine still stuck in the Korean and Sino-Vietnamese war?

 

[The best and greatest]

Yes Tim Pool, we really have so little copper, nickle and zinc that we need to stop making coins so we can build tanks out of pennies.

I've been trying to learn about modern Chinese military tactics and strategies, but outside of Tiananmen Square and primeval warfare with India, I can't find any solid answers. Is there combat doctrine still stuck in the Korean and Sino-Vietnamese war?

I would imagine their strategy revolves around bracing for the worst and some manner of fighting retreat into the interior and drawing in American forces getting them to overextend before pushing back once their advance stalls. I wonder how well America would be able to take and hold territory not adjacent to the coastline.

 

[Jimmy Durante's Ballsack]

I've been trying to learn about modern Chinese military tactics and strategies, but outside of Tiananmen Square and primeval warfare with India, I can't find any solid answers. Is there combat doctrine still stuck in the Korean and Sino-Vietnamese war?

I imagine they've been reading up on whatever textbooks and manuals they've stolen from the Americans, Europeans, and Russians. But beyond that any modern practical experience is from subjugating a defenseless and worn-down domestic population.

 

[muh_moobs]

Yes Tim Pool, we really have so little copper, nickle and zinc that we need to stop making coins so we can build tanks out of pennies.

I've been trying to learn about modern Chinese military tactics and strategies, but outside of Tiananmen Square and primeval warfare with India, I can't find any solid answers. Is there combat doctrine still stuck in the Korean and Sino-Vietnamese war?

They likely have modern doctrine, at least up to '03 Invasion of Iraq era. When I was digging into China stuff over the last week they seem to have at least a working relationship with Pakistan. They've been selling Pakistan tanks for a considerable amount of time, Pakistan now has a bunch of troops stationed on their border with India in solidarity with Chinese forces on the opposing side of India.

And if you remember, the US military was also working with Pakistani authorities at least into the Obama years.

I would imagine their strategy revolves around bracing for the worst and some manner of fighting retreat into the interior and drawing in American forces getting them to overextend before pushing back once their advance stalls. I wonder how well America would be able to take and hold territory not adjacent to the coastline.

Likely well. The US advance into Japan was based on building bases and airstrips as the combat forces advanced in order to keep supply lines within short distance of combat groups.

 

[ditto]

And if you remember, the US military was also working with Pakistani authorities at least into the Obama years.

I remember the Pakistani military hiding bin Laden and suffering absolutely no consequences for it. Yet we invaded Afganistan for the same reason.