South Korea court rules explicit anime and manga drawings are images of child sex abuse -

[Manwithn0n0men]

I've already mentioned this in many a thread but:

Drawings aren't pedophilia. Real pedophilia is horrifying. Drawings don't come close. Nothing drawn is real. No drawn character was ever harmed. I think its a disservice to even compare the two with the real sick shit that goes on.

The evil of Pedos is you know....torturing children, exchanging torture of children, mentally manipulating children into liking torture...etc

 

[Secret Asshole]

1. There are legitimate reasons for violence. When we see Indiana Jones shoot a swordsman trying to kill him, we don't condemn that because what he is doing is correct. Nobody ever molested a child in self-defense. Nor are there complex moral situations to debate on when molesting a child is right that a film could explore.
2. Depicting violence as part of a story is different to depicting child molestation so that someone can get off to it. You understand this difference even if you affect not to, so explaining this isn't needed.
3. Anyone who gets off to this has a serious problem. At best, the images enable their problem. Worst, it leads them on to things that directly harm real children and normalises such fetishes. We're already seeing "NOMAP" people quite proudly identifying themselves online. Shame is not a bad thing when the shame is because you want to molest children. It's the correct damn response.

About the only positive argument I've ever heard made about drawn child porn is that it provides an outlet for pedoes who would otherwise seek out real children / real child porn. Something which I greatly doubt as it flies in the face of how we know porn to work which is that people become desensitized to it and need to seek out ever more extreme versions to get off.

Its a myth that porn will inevitably lead to the most degenerate and de-sensitizing things. Pedophiles will always seek out child pornography right off the bat. There is no 'gateway' or 'gradual slide' into it. They may use drawings as an excuse, but by nature pedophiles are extraordinarily manipulative. Like sociopaths, you cannot trust what they say. They want you to think they were always 'normal' and 'anyone can be a pedophile, I slid into it because of porn!'. This is simply untrue. When they say that, they're trying to normalize their behavior and use it as an excuse as to what they're doing is 'natural'. Even the most degenerate porn addict will steer clear of CP. Pedophiles will not.

I mentioned this in the other threads, but pedos will always offend. There's very little evidence that there exists a 'gateway' or 'outlet' for pedophiles. You have to think of pedos as inhuman creatures. Highly stylized drawings just will not cut it for them. The same with petite porn actresses. There is absolutely nothing that will replace real children for them. So banning things that aren't real is ultimately a pointless endeavor. If you're going to ban loli, you may as well go full Australia and ban small tits and petite porn actresses, because its going to have the same effect: nothing. Also banning drawings inevitably leads to people banning more and more shit that has nothing to do with children, but fits their particular brand of morality.

And don't fucking strawman me and say 'HURR BUT ASSHOLE THEN ALL CP SHOULD BE LEGAL'. Of fucking course it shouldn't. Real CP causes actual damage to children, exploits them for all eternity and funds criminal organizations and human trafficking rings. Most children in CP are 'disposed of' because of this as well. So please. There's a huge gulf between something someone made in Photoshop to actual child pornography where children are bought and sold like cattle, and exchanged between pedophiles like they're fucking trading cards.

There was a slate article about a 'virtuous' pedophile who was babysitting this six year old and she was practicing her ballerina moves and he felt the sudden urge to go to the bathroom and masturbate. That's what pedophilia is. No amount of banning loli or stories or manga or whatever will ever stop this. They'll always seek out the real thing, no matter what material they have. Its the innocence and violation of that innocence that attracts real pedophiles to children. Most pedophiles have massive collections of real child pornography, in the tetrabyte range. Its a compulsion. They'll groom children. They'll seek out CP.

Drawings are nothing compared to the actual horror, compulsive nature of actual pedophilia, child exploitation, grooming and child pornography. Way back in the dark ages, my forensic psych thesis was on pedophilia and pedophiles. It was a fucking mistake. Even reading about this shit scars you. I've been called a pedophile for this stance, but for me, I cannot equate Eastern Bloc Criminal gangs who produce sadistic child pornography and disappear the children after they're done and some weeb drawing a 3,234,055 dragon loli teen or whatever.

So feel free to go 'lol pedo'. I'm not one and if I were, you wouldn't see me posting here because I'd have killed myself a long time ago.

The evil of Pedos is you know....torturing children, exchanging torture of children, mentally manipulating children into liking torture...etc

Exactly this. For me, it can't compare. I guess I'm different since I had to do a deep academic dive into it and it just is not even remotely comparable to me. Whenever I see 'drawn child pornography' I can't help but laugh. It is so different, so much on the opposite side of the spectrum, its a joke. To me, it is incredibly naive and downplays the horrors of actual child pornography.

Just what they do to produce actual child porn will give you nightmares. Just take what you think and amplify it by 100. I feel sorry for the bastards that have to catalog this shit. There's a very real reason burnout rates in people who have to sort through and make hashes for these images.

 

[Manwithn0n0men]

Exactly this. For me, it can't compare. I guess I'm different since I had to do a deep academic dive into it and it just is not even remotely comparable to me. Whenever I see 'drawn child pornography' I can't help but laugh. It is so different, so much on the opposite side of the spectrum, its a joke. To me, it is incredibly naive and downplays the horrors of actual child pornography.

Just what they do to produce actual child porn will give you nightmares. Just take what you think and amplify it by 100. I feel sorry for the bastards that have to catalog this shit. There's a very real reason burnout rates in people who have to sort through and make hashes for these images.

And these arent drawings by actual child rapists

those are totes uncomfortable

 

[Tipsy Tea Cup]

Maybe they should worry more about their people minecrafting themselves and their politicians running sex ring scandals instead of some Chinese cartoons.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Its a myth that porn will inevitably lead to the most degenerate and de-sensitizing things. Pedophiles will always seek out child pornography right off the bat. There is no 'gateway' or 'gradual slide' into it. They may use drawings as an excuse, but by nature pedophiles are extraordinarily manipulative. Like sociopaths, you cannot trust what they say. They want you to think they were always 'normal' and 'anyone can be a pedophile, I slid into it because of porn!'. This is simply untrue. When they say that, they're trying to normalize their behavior and use it as an excuse as to what they're doing is 'natural'. Even the most degenerate porn addict will steer clear of CP. Pedophiles will not.

I mentioned this in the other threads, but pedos will always offend. There's very little evidence that there exists a 'gateway' or 'outlet' for pedophiles. You have to think of pedos as inhuman creatures. Highly stylized drawings just will not cut it for them. The same with petite porn actresses. There is absolutely nothing that will replace real children for them. So banning things that aren't real is ultimately a pointless endeavor. If you're going to ban loli, you may as well go full Australia and ban small tits and petite porn actresses, because its going to have the same effect: nothing. Also banning drawings inevitably leads to people banning more and more shit that has nothing to do with children, but fits their particular brand of morality.

And don't fucking strawman me and say 'HURR BUT ASSHOLE THEN ALL CP SHOULD BE LEGAL'. Of fucking course it shouldn't. Real CP causes actual damage to children, exploits them for all eternity and funds criminal organizations and human trafficking rings. Most children in CP are 'disposed of' because of this as well. So please. There's a huge gulf between something someone made in Photoshop to actual child pornography where children are bought and sold like cattle, and exchanged between pedophiles like they're fucking trading cards.

There was a slate article about a 'virtuous' pedophile who was babysitting this six year old and she was practicing her ballerina moves and he felt the sudden urge to go to the bathroom and masturbate. That's what pedophilia is. No amount of banning loli or stories or manga or whatever will ever stop this. They'll always seek out the real thing, no matter what material they have. Its the innocence and violation of that innocence that attracts real pedophiles to children. Most pedophiles have massive collections of real child pornography, in the tetrabyte range. Its a compulsion. They'll groom children. They'll seek out CP.

Drawings are nothing compared to the actual horror, compulsive nature of actual pedophilia, child exploitation, grooming and child pornography. Way back in the dark ages, my forensic psych thesis was on pedophilia and pedophiles. It was a fucking mistake. Even reading about this shit scars you. I've been called a pedophile for this stance, but for me, I cannot equate Eastern Bloc Criminal gangs who produce sadistic child pornography and disappear the children after they're done and some weeb drawing a 3,234,055 dragon loli teen or whatever.

So feel free to go 'lol pedo'. I'm not one and if I were, you wouldn't see me posting here because I'd have killed myself a long time ago.



Exactly this. For me, it can't compare. I guess I'm different since I had to do a deep academic dive into it and it just is not even remotely comparable to me. Whenever I see 'drawn child pornography' I can't help but laugh. It is so different, so much on the opposite side of the spectrum, its a joke. To me, it is incredibly naive and downplays the horrors of actual child pornography.

Just what they do to produce actual child porn will give you nightmares. Just take what you think and amplify it by 100. I feel sorry for the bastards that have to catalog this shit. There's a very real reason burnout rates in people who have to sort through and make hashes for these images.

This.

Some weeb's lolicon drawing is creepy and degenerate as fuck, but it's not on the same level of actually raping a real child and distributing footage of it.

Not to mention that there are some weebs who whack it to loli or shota not because it's depicting minors, but because it's drawn in the anime style. More of a weird anime fetish than an actual child fetish. These people also whack off to other types of hentai as well and don't really have any interest in CP or even "Western" style drawings.

The existence of anime fetishism/cartoon fetishism blurs the line even further. While still deviant and fucked up, it becomes harder to tell if someone's deviance is getting off to fictional children or getting off to drawn characters without more evidence.

IIRC, the whole Lolicon/Shotacon genre started in the 1970's and 1980's in Japan and back then, it mostly depicted young teens as opposed to small children and it was mostly a way for manga authors to vicariously boink their teenage sweethearts in fiction since Japan has a very conservative culture and high school academic culture is very high-stress and competitive over there and as a result, most teens don't have sex and your average Japanese person loses their virginity at a later age than your average Westerner.

This applies to both genders, mind you. Shotacon was originally dominated by female authors and targeted at a female demographic since it grew out of the yaoi genre.

While it's still kind of creepy, it's not that unreasonable to fantasize about having sex with your high school crush and the whole "what could have been", especially in a country that's as repressed as Japan is. I'm not quite sure when and how the lolicon genre went from being mostly idealized and unrealistic teen stories to depicting pre-pubescent kids, and quite frankly I don't want to know.

Again, loli is still creepy and disgusting as fuck. But it's not quite on the same level as the actual clinical pedophilia and CP that @Secret Asshole is describing.

There's a reason why loli is legal on the federal level in the United States (though some states have laws against it)

 

[5ever a crab]

I recall some Denmark Study that was brought up on /animu/ when the UN was planning an anti-loli law. It concluded that there's no correlation between loli manga and a child abuser (actual CP on the other hand does influence child abusers to rape kids). And I personally agree because most (actual) otakus don't prefer 3DPD and just want to sperg about fictional characters when they get home from work etc.

I think this partly came from the massive misconception of porn being used to determine your sexuality. Porn in general is very scripted and you don't have to risk stds or other injuries when watching 3dpd roasties go at it; also note that over consumption leads to this misconception of 'bicuriousity' which is most likely sex addiction.
I won't deny that anomalies such as gender dysphoria or homosexuality existed without being brought upon by the overuse of porn. However when you compare those numbers to the 50% of high schoolers proudly labeling themselves as lgbtadflkdjfa+ its unnaturally high in such short periods of time. With the whole 1st world population being connected to the internet, even your grandma knows what the word 'hentai' means. Now going back to mongoloid cartoon comics, compared to your 3DPD porn, drawings give you more freedom to, make anything your imagination can conceive, appealing in some way. Beauty and idealism is part of art. On top there's no victims when creating drawn porn. You don't need porn actors or hire octopuses to make your fantasies.

Overall if people are actually worried about those things, then they can put an effort on spreading awareness of communities that enforce the distinction of reality and fiction instead of larping as Chris Hanson and causing more problems instead of fixing them.
"the loli debate" is an old and tired controversy that was already been concluded with numerous studies; I know this fake outrage is caused by casuals on twitter who think they're hardcore for keeping up with the latest shounen shit, or liking any anituber and """"niche""" ones like DemoD, but it gets tiring everytime. With the shit we have now, do you want to deal with the headache being sued for accidentally drawing tits too big which raped some landwhale fujoshi? I certainly don't.

(also I'm not anti-porn or want to ban it. I think its more helpful to inform people or treat it like alchol of some sort- but any banning will create some opposite/negative effect.)

Spoiler: powerlevel sperg

>inb4 lolifag
I'm not. Any form of censorship against fiction is a bad sign that should be fought out. I feel like a broken record because I've seen these normalfag dipshits every generation of whining about rapeplay for the nth time; its annoying in general to see some clueless self-proclaimed weeb trying to speak for all of the otaku community, when the same community agrees that 2D > smelly 3D. Sex is a chore anyway, especially if you don't have a gf/bf; I'm fine with just fapping to exaggerated drawings.

 

[Slimy Time]

Loli is degenerate shit. This though seems to cover any depiction of animated/drawn under 18 as CP. Guess that's a lot of manga (not talking about hentai) with explicit sexual scenes illegal then.

S.Korea is a lol worthy country, age of consent is 20, second highest in the world. That itself is funnier to me than any sperg out resulting from this decision. That's some laughable shit there. Maybe they should focus on their K-Pop bands and the illegal sex shit that happens there, you know, people who according to their law are unable to consent?

 

[Vlad Transylvania Mai]

Banning loli crap isn't going to stop the explotation and abuse of children.loli is degenerate shit.but I do wonder if manga with explicit sexual scenes are going to be banned like beserk for example.

 

[Secret Asshole]

This.

Some weeb's lolicon drawing is creepy and degenerate as fuck, but it's not on the same level of actually raping a real child and distributing footage of it.

Not to mention that there are some weebs who whack it to loli or shota not because it's depicting minors, but because it's drawn in the anime style. More of a weird anime fetish than an actual child fetish. These people also whack off to other types of hentai as well and don't really have any interest in CP or even "Western" style drawings.

The existence of anime fetishism/cartoon fetishism blurs the line even further. While still deviant and fucked up, it becomes harder to tell if someone's deviance is getting off to fictional children or getting off to drawn characters without more evidence.

IIRC, the whole Lolicon/Shotacon genre started in the 1970's and 1980's in Japan and back then, it mostly depicted young teens as opposed to small children and it was mostly a way for manga authors to vicariously boink their teenage sweethearts in fiction since Japan has a very conservative culture and high school academic culture is very high-stress and competitive over there and as a result, most teens don't have sex and your average Japanese person loses their virginity at a later age than your average Westerner.

This applies to both genders, mind you. Shotacon was originally dominated by female authors and targeted at a female demographic since it grew out of the yaoi genre.

While it's still kind of creepy, it's not that unreasonable to fantasize about having sex with your high school crush and the whole "what could have been", especially in a country that's as repressed as Japan is. I'm not quite sure when and how the lolicon genre went from being mostly idealized and unrealistic teen stories to depicting pre-pubescent kids, and quite frankly I don't want to know.

Again, loli is still creepy and disgusting as fuck. But it's not quite on the same level as the actual clinical pedophilia and CP that @Secret Asshole is describing.

There's a reason why loli is legal on the federal level in the United States (though some states have laws against it)

I think it more falls along the line of fetish like you said. Granted, its creepy and degenerate, but people have High-School Cheerleader fantasies, rape fantasies, mutilation fantasies and worse. Again, feel free to call it degenerate and awful and all sorts of fucked. I agree.

And I have absolutely no idea where it went off the rails. But I don't think these genres a pedophile make. Obviously if people who look at this shit go into real CP, they're pedophiles. But its hard for me to call someone a pedo who faps to drawings of a highly stylized nature and that's all they do and are attracted to adult women. Like, the clinical definition of pedophilia doesn't involve drawings. Call them disgusting weeaboo faggot perverts, but unless they've got some CP and are grooming kids, pedos they aren't. I know its weird and seemingly contradictory, but its very, very different from the behavior of actual pedophiles. Also, people have age-play fantasies where they wear diapers and pretend to be babies. That is creepy as fuck (Even more fucking creepy than drawings if you ask me), but again, those people aren't pedophiles. Typically. Hopefully. I don't know. I didn't do a thesis on fetishes so all I know is the requirements for pedophilia is having intense attraction to real children and fantasies about real children (or God fucking save us, a specific child) for over a six month period. Some shit like that. Its been awhile since I read it on the DSM. All I know is fetishes don't equal pedophilia. Pedophilia is a clinical disorder and greatly harms other people. Fetishes are degenerate shit that makes you a fucking weirdo, but are typically limited to you and other degenerates who consent and willingly partake. Also remember, pedophiles have been trying to pass their nature off as a fetish for a very long time. Didn't work. Now they're peddling it as a fucking sexuality.

Also, real pedophiles don't want a mature, 2,000 year old loli dragon. They want a real child who acts like one. Its basically the polar opposite of what drives them. Its why you can't just give them loli or petite porn actresses and say 'Here you go!'. It isn't just looking like a child, its the mind of one, their actions, their innocence and basically taking that and mutilating it beyond all recognition. A lot of the state laws in the US are basically there so pedos who try and skirt around 'no looking at kids' rule while on probation get their asses thrown back in jail. I can't think of anyone in the states being solely arrested over loli without CP except for maybe like 1 case and it was a big deal.

I'm actually getting kind of nauseated going back over this. Not for the repetition, but for the content. This is like Lovecraftian shit, things man should not know but are required to so they know who gets the bullet. Now excuse me while I go vomit.

Banning loli crap isn't going to stop the explotation and abuse of children.loli is degenerate shit.but I do wonder if manga with explicit sexual scenes are going to be banned like beserk for example.

Considering its banning everything under their age of consent which is somehow FUCKING TWENTY, I think they've just banned a ton of shit. Possibly every anime and manga and probably a lot of Western movies and television. Its not only loli and teenagers. Its 19 and under, which is pure insanity.

 

[Jmz_33]

 

[Atatata]

Imagine ever thinking South Korea, ran by a literal cult, is right about anything. Supreme Lord Boichi was right to expat to Japan when he had the chance.

i'm honestly surprised so many kiwis are pro thought crime laws

Kiwifarms is just a slightly more right leaning reddit.

 

[Safir]

Its a myth that porn will inevitably lead to the most degenerate and de-sensitizing things. Pedophiles will always seek out child pornography right off the bat. There is no 'gateway' or 'gradual slide' into it.

What about troons, though?

i'm honestly surprised so many kiwis are pro thought crime laws

I'm pro this thought crime law because it's not a slide to anything (and it's not actually a thought crime because it punishes not pedo advocacy but the pron itself). Obviously no one is going to come after violence in the media. SK is not going to get worse, it's already censorious. It hurts literally no one that pedos get to suffer under the regime, too.

It's like the Pornhub Paypal ban. Should they be allowed to ban Pornhub? No, but we're already past that point because they banned Null. Major apolitical corporations getting deplatformed is good.

 

[Varg Did Nothing Wrong]

I'm pro this thought crime law

Yeah, that's how it always starts. "I'm pro this infringement of citizen's rights, because it doesn't affect me and I can't see it ever being expanded to affect me, therefore fuck them".

It's like the Pornhub Paypal ban. Should they be allowed to ban Pornhub? No, but we're already past that point because they banned Null. Major apolitical corporations getting deplatformed is good.

These situations are nothing alike. A private company refusing to handle business related to another private company is in no way infringing on anyone's rights or setting up a precedent and an excuse the state can use to prosecute anyone they don't like.

 

[LazyLizard]

I'm pro this thought crime law because it's not a slide to anything (and it's not actually a thought crime because it punishes not pedo advocacy but the pron itself). Obviously no one is going to come after violence in the media. SK is not going to get worse, it's already censorious. It hurts literally no one that pedos get to suffer under the regime, too.

It's like the Pornhub Paypal ban. Should they be allowed to ban Pornhub? No, but we're already past that point because they banned Null. Major apolitical corporations getting deplatformed is good.

it hurts literally no one
it hurts the people who make it and the people who like it. if that doesn't count as "hurting someone" then that can literally be said about anything, banning porn, games, comics etc, it doesn't hurt anyone so it's totally ok to censor to your hearts content.

 

[Secret Asshole]

What about troons, though?


I'm pro this thought crime law because it's not a slide to anything (and it's not actually a thought crime because it punishes not pedo advocacy but the pron itself). Obviously no one is going to come after violence in the media. SK is not going to get worse, it's already censorious. It hurts literally no one that pedos get to suffer under the regime, too.

It's like the Pornhub Paypal ban. Should they be allowed to ban Pornhub? No, but we're already past that point because they banned Null. Major apolitical corporations getting deplatformed is good.

The increase in transgender-ism is societal, related to 'trans-trenders', millennial parents who want to be progressive, the amount of attention trans people get in modern society with very little social penalty, especially in mainstream media, also heavily influences it. Porn has nothing to do with the increase in troons. Literally nothing. The increase in trans is a combination of people being too scared to come out and tell the truth, the amount of attention it gets the trans person and the parents, the shield that it brings for abusive, despicable and downright disgusting behavior, the massive profits reaped by insurance companies who are all too happy to sell expensive hormones to people for the rest of their lives, unscrupulous medical professionals who have created an entire industry to 'transition' children to teens to adults and milk them out of money every step of the way and the abject fear people have about saying anything negative about trans. It has literally nothing to do with pornography.

Pedos don't though? Pedos seriously, really seriously, don't care about banning drawings. They're still grooming, raping children and seeking out CP, funding an abusive criminal enterprise. CP is illegal precisely because it causes everlasting damage, harms children, enriches criminals and promotes further abuse for monetary gain. Literally none of this happens with drawings. They are not comparable. This does nothing to combat actual pedophilia. I mean lol if you thinks this hurts pedophiles. They're too busy forming child porn trading forums internationally to notice.

You're basically banning a fetish. You may as well ban age-play fetishes for two consenting adults if you're going to go that far. Same with role-playing a cheerleader in the bedroom. That's what this is equivalent of. Of course people have degenerate fucking fetishes and it repulses us, but just because we don't like it doesn't mean it should be banned.

Anyway, SK is a censorous, authoritarian hellscape that doesn't give a singular fuck about the abuse of kids.

 

[CheezzyMach]

I thought South Korea was best Korea?

 

[Syaoran Li]

I thought South Korea was best Korea?

It is, but only because "better than North Korea" is a very low bar to clear.

South Korea can still fuck off with this law. It's basically virtue-signalling and does nothing to curb the actual problems of prostitution and human trafficking in South Korea, especially within the K-Pop music industry.

 

[SheerHeartAttack]

I thought South Korea was best Korea?

No that's North Korea

 

[Saffronette]

Good job South Korea, way to use this as a reason to distract people from your horrid abuse of minors in the K-Pop industry.