Spiritual beliefs -

[TheIncredibleLioness]

Raised Catholic, though the whole family's rather liberal leaning. Not very strong in the faith now, even though I've been Confirmed -- haven't went to Confession in years, but will go to Mass occasionally. I agree with Henry Bemis, in that I'm more a weak atheist/agnostic. I've never been fortunate enough to have any spiritual events of my own, though I have family who do. You could call it superstition or wanting to believe, but I see no harm in believing it since it comforts them.

That said, I do a lot of reading about Spiritualist stuff, and find it appealling - I wouldn't out and out call myself a Spiritualist, and I admit when it comes to stuff like mediums, you'd better take everything they say with a chunk of salt, but there's definitely a pull there. Even if some of the ideas are a little...out there? (For example, Anthony Borgia's Life in the World Unseen, purportedly channelled through Borgia by Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson...well, it's pretty and comforting, but there's a lot of stuff in there that feels almost...I don't know, like fanfiction? Too good to be true? I can't think of any other way to describe it.) This falls back into the agnostic/weak atheist category, since there's no real way to prove it, even if it is interesting.

And, as a bibliophile, I get kinda angry when people casually speak about ripping up religious texts out of some forced attempt to be edgy. Not like there wasn't anything in any of those texts that can hold any value, real or fictional.

Which kinda leads to my next gripe: So what if the texts are all fiction? Fiction has value; fiction often teaches better than non-fiction; hell, we require fiction reading in our schools.

Oh yes. I don't agree with burning books, no matter how much you don't like the content. It also irks me when people try to burn the Quran, like that one preacher in Florida a while back. I'm not Muslim myself, but having done some brief study on Islam and the history of the Islamic states, I have respect for it. It irks me when people say they're worshiping devils or moon gods, not the Abrahamic God. Then again, those people aren't really interested in learning more for themselves anyway.

 

[Tubular Monkey]

I'm agnostic, but certainly open to the possibility that there is more to the nature of reality than we are able to perceive. I'm strongly against the wave of popular atheism at the moment. I'm only going to get into that side of the argument, since there are plenty of justifiable arguments against religion already. To qualify my points, let me say that I don't have a problem with atheism whatsoever. But the popular culture of atheism with its notable figureheads is an entirely different matter. It has fallen into a twofold trap. First, it has become a cult of personality, and second, it has politicized itself.

I have no dog in this fight between theism and atheism, as I look at the hereafter as unknowable and therefor not worth worrying about to begin with. In other words, these are observations that I like to think are unbiased. Criticism of one side is not an endorsement of the other. These Skeptics conventions (which to me make as much sense as a convention for people who don't like the show Cheers) are not only exorbitantly expensive to get into, but exist to sell books on the premise that you are a smarter person than someone who believes in God. That's a very expensive pat on the back. I think that if atheism is concerned with actually making lasting headway in America, it's going to have to humble itself, because it is personified in the figure of a maladjusted, snotty jerk. Not anyone specifically, but as an amalgamation. Well, there are people like Penn Jillette, whose sense of morality I find baffling and sometimes reprehensible.

Then there is the politicizing of atheism. It's not a right-wing organization for certain. Religion has come to dominate right-wing politics more than ever over the last twenty years, and has become a target of popular atheism. Again, I stress popular atheism. The problem lies in the fact that the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater. Forget the religious right for minute. Small federal government? Lowered taxes? Gun control? I'm not making an argument for any of those things here, but neither should atheism. What's it got to do with the fact that you don't believe in God? But it's part of the belief set of right-wing politics, and is therefor against the movement. The other side of it is that the left-wing is far more secular, in line with atheism, and is embraced lock stock and barrel. The movement of popular atheism has taken on political baggage which is far beyond the scope of its reason for being. And while the leaders of that movement may well have a more nuanced view of what does and does not belong in a discussion of cosmology, its followers seem to me to quite often be credulous smartasses who have chosen to believe in science as their god, rather than science as an alternative to religious myths. My point is that atheism is a perfectly rational perspective, but that popular atheism in the vein of Dawkins and Hitchens is about sound bites that sell books.

Again, I'm only going after atheism here because it's the side that agnosticism seems to be more in step with. Religion is an easy and justifiable target, and I hold much of it in the same contempt as I do popular atheism. The arguments the two sides have with each other are generally petty and not worthy of consideration by someone who wants to get down to brass tacks about what is knowable about reality, and how that can shape our lives.

 

[Great Unclean Chris]

I don't see it as a problem. Nobody's calling out atheists arguing that they're all sinners and going to hell, nobody's singling out any religious groups saying that they're all immoral shitheads who believe in a false prophet, it's just people stating what they believe in and why. I wanted to make a thread on spiritual belief a loooooong time ago, but thought it'd cause a ton of arguments and decided against it. I made a thread on politics, and it proved me wrong, so yeah.

Just stating your "beliefs" is enough to arouse a shitstorm (both OTI and IRL). Because most people are way to easily offended. I've had many experiences with this. For example people have asked me in real life what I believed and I told them "Well I believe there are things beyond any human intelligence that science can't simply explain. I mean Science in it self is flawed man made creation which we already barely understand. So we can't even fathom things like "are there any other life forms beyond our galaxy? Are their God-like entities among us? and are they for or against us? How did life began? Is death (or life) truly permanent/temporary? Is any of this really relevant or matter at all?" I just think we shouldn't really put to much thought into this and not fathom on it to much. "

Of course this was a hardcore atheist and he started bitching on in on about how i was wrong and started to call me an "ignorant christian sheep" (even though I haven't mentioned anything related to the Judeo Christian God, the Bible, jesus, etc. at all). I just told him "look if you don't like my opinion don't fucking ask me (or anyone else) about someones personal opinions if your just going to throw a temper tantrum like a little 12-year-old girl.Do the world a favor and Go change your morning Coffee to bleach asshole." After many other encounters like this, I never talk about my personal opinions with people (not even with friends or family) because all it does is cause problems and breaks friendships.

 

[Niachu]

Just stating your "beliefs" is enough to arouse a shitstorm (both OTI and IRL). Because most people are way to easily offended. I've had many experiences with this. For example people have asked me in real life what I believed and I told them "Well I believe there are things beyond any human intelligence that science can't simply explain. I mean Science in it self is flawed man made creation which we already barely understand. So we can't even fathom things like "are there any other life forms beyond our galaxy? Are their God-like entities among us? and are they for or against us? How did life began? Is death (or life) truly permanent/temporary? Is any of this really relevant or matter at all?" I just think we shouldn't really put to much thought into this and not fathom on it to much. "

Of course this was a hardcore atheist and he started bitching on in on about how i was wrong and started to call me an "ignorant christian sheep" (even though I haven't mentioned anything related to the Judeo Christian God, the Bible, jesus, etc. at all). I just told him "look if you don't like my opinion don't fucking ask me (or anyone else) about someones personal opinions if your just going to throw a temper tantrum like a little 12-year-old girl.Do the world a favor and Go change your morning Coffee to bleach asshole." After many other encounters like this, I never talk about my personal opinions with people (not even with friends or family) because all it does is cause problems and breaks friendships.

It's a sad day indeed when one cannot so much as state their beliefs without others frothing at the mouth. However, I do hope you'll give the people of our community a bit more credit than that. Just because there are those out there interpret the mere mention of spirituality or religion as an incentive to attack does not mean they'll be here to prevent anyone else from sharing their views while welcoming discussion--which is what a forum exists to manifest.

 

[KatsuKitty]

I generally adhere to strict rationalism, so any spiritual beliefs must be in accordance with what is actually possible given known physics, mathematics, and science.

Strangely enough, thanks to the works of Dr. Ian Stevenson, this doesn't exclude the possibility of reincarnation. However, my pessimistic side takes note of the lack of delivery method between bodies, the lack of a medium containing...whatever it is that makes people reincarnate, and the common-sense observation that those remarks suggestive of reincarnation given by children can still just be memories of someone else, and not actually someone else.

I like nontheistic religions such as Buddhism, but they lack rigor, much like an entirely unsubstantiated "For Dummies" self-help book that's thousands of years old.

 

[Great Unclean Chris]

It's a sad day indeed when one cannot so much as state their beliefs without others frothing at the mouth. However, I do hope you'll give the people of our community a bit more credit than that. Just because there are those out there interpret the mere mention of spirituality or religion as an incentive to attack does not mean they'll be here to prevent anyone else from sharing their views while welcoming discussion--which is what a forum exists to manifest.

I'm not saying any (atleast most) of us here aren't going to intentionally start a flamewar or create manuscript long debate on "Im right your wrong!! And any one who doesn't think the way I do is a sheeple!!!"

I have seen good friends turn into complete enemies just because they had two completely opposite views. I just think its not a good idea to have a thread like this in a good community. It may change someones view of someone else completely regardless of their personality or manners.

 

[Niachu]

It's a sad day indeed when one cannot so much as state their beliefs without others frothing at the mouth. However, I do hope you'll give the people of our community a bit more credit than that. Just because there are those out there interpret the mere mention of spirituality or religion as an incentive to attack does not mean they'll be here to prevent anyone else from sharing their views while welcoming discussion--which is what a forum exists to manifest.

I'm not saying any (atleast most) of us here aren't going to intentionally start a flamewar or create manuscript long debate on "Im right your wrong!! And any one who doesn't think the way I do is a sheeple!!!"

I have seen good friends turn into complete enemies just because they had two completely opposite views. I just think its not a good idea to have a thread like this in a good community. It may change someones view of someone else completely regardless of their personality or manners.

We've entertained such threads in the past with no negative consequences. If I notice such signs I'll take action. But I have enough trust in the regulars here to know better.

But if I may say so we've all gathered under the umbrella of internet-manchild-voyeurism--which generates far more passionate debate than the subject of religion on this forum. I can't say I'm that worried about fighting here, all things considered.

 

[brooklynbailiff]

People get along very well on this board. I used to worry about folks making politic threads or religion threads a long time ago but there's never been an issue and Niachu can handle any problems. It's nice how easy going everyone here is truth be told and troublemakers get run out of town on a rail pretty quickly so people policing themselves makes everything much easier.

And, I'm agnostic I guess but I don't think about it much.

 

[JimReynolds]

I am an atheist, but I try not to be a douche about it and bring it up all the time.

 

[Optimistic]

This may seem really simplistic, but it's something that's stuck with me throughout my adult life and was potent to me when I heard it. My uncle's funeral was led by a catholic priest, my grandmother being Italian and very Catholic. My uncle had a very sad life; he was schizophrenic, bipolar, an acid casualty, and a crack addict/alcoholic at the end. He spent much of his adult life either in a mental institution, a squalid crack den, or jail.

The priest was talking about redemption and the afterlife and said, "Imagine if you asked a baby in the womb whether it believed in life after birth. Chances are, the baby might say, 'No, there is no such thing as life after birth. How could there be?'. Because that baby cannot possibly comprehend the vastness and complexities of life after the womb. Perhaps it is hard for us to wrap our minds around the idea of life after death because it is simply so vast and complex that we cannot imagine it in our lives here on earth."

For the most part, I am an atheist, but this little greeting-card type sentiment actually brought me to tears. It sort of solidified my belief that personal beliefs cannot be prescribed, and that's okay. Maybe what we struggle so hard to understand and come to terms with throughout our lives will be waiting for us when we die, but they'll be so much more than we ever thought possible that we can't even comprehend it now. Again, I'm sure this all sounds pretty SOPHOMORIC, but I still find it valid. Maybe we're being watched, maybe there's a plan, but more than likely we don't know what the fuck is going on on such a grand scale that all our fighting will seem like at the end.

 

[Trombonista]

I'm a Reform Jew.

 

[NobleGreyHorse]

Buddhist. I'm of the non-theistic sort but at the same time, Buddhism involves non-testable concepts like "Buddha-nature," so I don't get people who practice but insist it isn't a religion.

 

[Blue Max]

A place to ponder and discuss your spiritual or religious beliefs.

I'm agnostic, I (try to) adhere to an existentialist viewpoint, and I think reincarnation would be the ideal fate. Basically, I'd like to always exist in some form and believe that humanity and life have some higher, intrinsic value...though I can barely define the term "higher intrinsic value" for myself yet...In short you could say my spiritual life is very anxious and turbulent.

I am a hard atheist that's willing to consider religious ideas separate from religious justifications.

IMO:

Good and Evil do exist in roughly the same way as Credit and Debit exists in your wallet--they're somewhat abstract terms given the complexities of modern finance, but ultimately coincide with human life, welfare and wellness. With that in mind, I try very hard to do what I think is right--helping others, teaching and mentoring, and generally troubleshooting when the situation demands it. This stems from three different philosophical systems:

-John Stuart Mill's Utilitarianism
-Immanuel Kant's Deontology
-And the Classical Greek ideas of Plato

They don't always agree, and occasionally produce bizarre results that shouldn't be followed, but they work much of the time.

Ultimately, hard science will answer the question of "how everything was created", and its made a great deal of progress. We've come a long way from a flat earth in the center of the universe, and science rolled religious explanations away at those centuries long past as it will today. As much fun as magic and tales are, they're not real and not necessary to answer questions about human origin, the creation of the universe, or immortal aspects.

I believe very deeply in social sciences, such as history, economics, sociology, and anthropology, and this is why CWC interests me so much. Social Sciences offers a field laboratory in which social policies and beliefs have been tried, and history can review the outcomes of such. It's trial and error--and it also means that we don't have to repeat the same mistakes made in years long past.

 

[Dollars2010]

My beliefs are along the lines of the Norse Pantheon. Asatru is probably the best way to put it, although the folks I live are are pretty hardcore Christians so I mainly keep it to myself.

 

[Surtur]

My beliefs are along the lines of the Norse Pantheon. Asatru is probably the best way to put it, although the folks I live are are pretty hardcore Christians so I mainly keep it to myself.

I know that feeling. Also, surprised by the number of Asatruar on this board.

 

[The Dude]

I'm a lax Latter Day Saint/Mormon. I personally believe there are many ways to God. I believe God is a forgiving God and that even if you mess up in this life that there is a chance for you to make up for it in the Here After. LDS refer to God as Heavenly Father, because we believe that God is the literal Father of our Souls. I believe that there is some form of eternal paradise for all of us, because what loving father would abandon his children just because they made some mistakes in their lives? God created us, gave us free will and made us fallible. He knows the good in our hearts and that's what matters. Do I believe that the wicked will punished in some form? Yes. But because God is loving and forgiving we will all be given the opportunity to be forgiven and be welcome back into His house.

Do I believe that the is sin, and that those things that most people consider to be sins are real? Absolutely. But I believe that aside from a handful of things that there is no such thing as an unforgivable sin. God loves and forgives, even if we don't understand that love sometimes.

That's what I believe.

 

[AtroposHeart]

Atheist, keep it to myself since I live Alabama.

 

[Surtur]

Atheist, keep it to myself since I live Alabama.

Yea, here in Arkansas like on every other street corner there is a fire and brimstone church. I stay in the toolshed since I am worried how I might be treated if they find out.

 

[Jackie Chin]

I'm usure myself about religion in my life. I come from a Christian family and I would rather not get involved in religion because its not for me. I also dislike religion because it starts so many conflicts between different people. I hate how we live in America where we have the freedom of what we want to believe, and we have people always disrespecting other people who believe something different. And I know that this problem has been around for a long time, but I just wish people would just shut up and believe what they want and not disrespect other people. That's just my opinion.

 

[Picklepower]

I was a Baptist Christian for all of my Childhood, and for some of my High school years. Now I am a pizza faced Atheist. I am still interested in theology though, like I find Islam and Mormonism interesting. I also think cults are fascinating, along with stuff involving demons, and old school spiritual beliefs. But I am a Humanist/Atheist. I'm also a huge James Randi fan.