Star Trek - Space: The Final Frontier

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

Actually, what do you guys think about the TNG movies?

I was never a fan of them, for some reason the TOS movies has worked way better for me. And I enjoyed TNG, the show.

They're all mediocre movies, although I have a soft spot for First Contact. First Contact was the closest to being good, but because Moore and Berman argued over what direction to take, it's just two scripts smushed together. It doesn't even fit the A-B plot because those two plots are supposed to be thematically similar to each other and they aren't.

Insurrection is the more competent script, but the B'aku are really terrible. They're not a pre-warp civilization despite wanting to live in Sonoma Valley so they can defend themselves from the Son'a if they so choose and presumably did when they exiled them from the planet in the first place. But in the movie, they rely on Picard, Data, Worf, Troi, and Crusher to defend the entire village. When you're letting middle-aged women fight your battles for you, you are not superior in any way. If anything, the B'aku are addicts to the fountain of youth considering the Son'a aged to near death, but this addiction isn't portrayed as a negative thing. We're actually supposed to root for the pacifists that rely on adolescent-brained Starfleet officers for protection!

Nemesis is fucking depressing. Shockingly, even this bad TNG film had more going on thematically than the Kelvin movies. Data and B4 parallel Picard and Shinzon. That's something, as opposed to nothing.

 

[JamesFargo]

Actually, what do you guys think about the TNG movies?

Shockingly amateurish.

The most grating thing is that Trekkies don't seem to mind. Pew pew pew space!

 

[Blamo]

They're all mediocre movies, although I have a soft spot for First Contact. First Contact was the closest to being good

I agree on that. Also the end credits were glorious. Of course... personalizing the Borg was never a good idea tbh.

Shockingly amateurish.

The most grating thing is that Trekkies don't seem to mind. Pew pew pew space!

They had the money, but the Writing was aiming too much for a mainstream audience perhaps. Especially considering TNG, as a show, was more idealistic and brainy than TOS. Perhaps the increased budget meant that they needed the "general audience". I mean sometimes you have to accept that some properties are niche.

Star Trek has ships and aliens, it should be able to make Star Wars money!

 

[Drag-on Knight 91873]

I agree on that. Also the end credits were glorious. Of course... personalizing the Borg was never a good idea tbh.

They had the money, but the Writing was aiming too much for a mainstream audience perhaps. Especially considering TNG, as a show, was more idealistic and brainy than TOS. Perhaps the increased budget meant that they needed the "general audience". I mean sometimes you have to accept that some properties are niche.

Star Trek has ships and aliens, it should be able to make Star Wars money!

They were wrong on results (which can happen to any of us), but conceptionally sound. I have to agree with Moore that a big, plot driven war movie would have been the way to go with First Contact.

 

[JamesFargo]

Star Trek has ships and aliens, it should be able to make Star Wars money!

Considering the state Star Wars (and James Bond) was in, awful sequels were the order of the day.

 

[raider of the lost wifi]

They're all mediocre movies, although I have a soft spot for First Contact. First Contact was the closest to being good, but because Moore and Berman argued over what direction to take, it's just two scripts smushed together. It doesn't even fit the A-B plot because those two plots are supposed to be thematically similar to each other and they aren't.

Insurrection is the more competent script, but the B'aku are really terrible. They're not a pre-warp civilization despite wanting to live in Sonoma Valley so they can defend themselves from the Son'a if they so choose and presumably did when they exiled them from the planet in the first place. But in the movie, they rely on Picard, Data, Worf, Troi, and Crusher to defend the entire village. When you're letting middle-aged women fight your battles for you, you are not superior in any way. If anything, the B'aku are addicts to the fountain of youth considering the Son'a aged to near death, but this addiction isn't portrayed as a negative thing. We're actually supposed to root for the pacifists that rely on adolescent-brained Starfleet officers for protection!

Nemesis is fucking depressing. Shockingly, even this bad TNG film had more going on thematically than the Kelvin movies. Data and B4 parallel Picard and Shinzon. That's something, as opposed to nothing.

With the cut scenes added back in nemesis is okay at best.
They actually helped you get attached to the E by having some scenes similar to TNG back on the Enterprise-D and helped to give things a lot more context.

Also the Reman coup really came out of nowhere. Don't recall them ever being in TNG and only the pureblooded/part-human Romulan's culture being explored during the redemption arc. Would have made more sense for the Liberation movement to have pulled that coup, not Remans from another solar system who were invented just for Nemesis.

They could have tried to pull a operation valkyrie parody with a romulan spin on it instead and would have been more interesting than "muh slaves, muh coal mines, muh bald head" when Shinzon had an autistic obsession with Picard and completely chimped out whenever Picard attempted to have empathy for him. Not the actor's fault even though his career took a hit. Was the writer's.

 

[Sexual Chocolate]

Actually, what do you guys think about the TNG movies?

I was never a fan of them, for some reason the TOS movies has worked way better for me. And I enjoyed TNG, the show.

They all sucked in their own ways. Rather than Mr Plinkett them, it's maybe worth looking at why the TOS movies were better (even the slow, boring, acid trip one and the one with "God")

Characterisation: we got a lot of great character moments. Some of them silly, some sad, some almost profound.

Kirk ageing out of space adventures and needing glasses. Spock's sacrifice and funeral. Bones being the unhappy host for Spock's soul. Spock The White coming back and not knowing what's going on. Scotty's quest for transparent aluminum. Kirk's wrath at the death of his son. Kirk's trial. Stealing the Enterprise. Destroying the Enterprise. Khaaaan! Shakespeare in the original Klingon. Nuclear Wessels. Campfire sing-along.

The TOS movies are cosy af, like an old brown corduroy sofa that perfectly fits your buttcrack. It's great to see the old cast back together, and they're given new adventures that are mostly grander, and sometimes goofier, than the TV show.

There's a sense of time passing, which is important to grounding the stories in some level of realism. They're older, wiser, and maybe a little sadder than when they were go go dancing with miniskirted yeomen in the 60's. Feels like we're watching real people who've shared real experiences, even though they're doing fantastical things in a spaceship that can also travel through time when the plot requires it.

The warmth of the Kirk-Spock-Bones trio makes those movies. The second tier characters aren't completely neglected, even if they are sometimes relegated to more comic relief roles.

Ok, now do TNG:

Idk what any of those movies are "about". They all feel like mediocre episodes of the TV show with bigger budgets and dumber plots.

There's no chemistry between any of the characters, even when Stewart awkwardly shares the screen with Shatner, and Picard is implausibly rewritten as some kind of action hero for whatever reason. Data looks haggard af as the movies progress, and they pussed out of even giving him a proper send off (B-4, geddit?, was like a shit tier, unimaginative version of Spock's resurrection).

Where TOS felt like we were watching old friends, TNG felt like those awkward corporate retreats where everyone is failing to pretend they're having a great time. Most of the bad guys sucked too, from hambone Malcolm McDowell to the plastic surgery guy, to Picard's non-identical clone. The Borg Queen was alright I guess, but in service of a plot that was just a dumber version of BOBW.

 

[JamesFargo]

Where TOS felt like we were watching old friends, TNG felt like those awkward corporate retreats

The cast treated each movie like it was a year-long vacation. Which I suppose it was, in a sense. Frakes earned the nickname "two-takes Frakes" for his lack of preperation.

They sail through it with the self-assured ease of a Happy Madison production.

 

[White Devil]

Lets be honest, First Contact was the only good TNG movie and it was also the least Trek movie of them all. It's an action movie with a time machine. You get to see a what if of Picard if he had actual balls instead of being a sniveling negotiator that he was for 7 seasons in the show. It's why them character assassinating him in the nu-Trek show doesn't really bother me; I was never that attached to Picard or the crew of TNG because there was never much to be attached to unless it was shitting on Wesley. Data, Worf, and Geordi are the only main cast worth a shit and most of the times the guest stars outshone the main crew.

 

[JamesFargo]

Data, Worf, and Geordi are the only main cast worth a shit

Geordi is a walking puff of chloroform.

Ironically he had some stand-out moments in the movies.

 

[White Devil]

Geordi is a walking puff of chloroform.

Ironically he had some stand-out moments in the movies.

At least he didn't get raped by a ghost.

 

[JamesFargo]

At least he didn't get raped by a ghost.

Always thought Star Trek needed a dash of "winemom ghost erotica"

wait, it says here that Frakes directed that, too.

 

[AnOminous]

At least he didn't get raped by a ghost.

At least he was on the bridge for a reason better than being able to see someone on another ship in the viewscreen screaming bloody murder and firing photon torpedoes at them and say "I sense anger."

 

[White Devil]

At least he was on the bridge for a reason better than being able to see someone on another ship in the viewscreen screaming bloody murder and firing photon torpedoes at them and say "I sense anger."

I think this thread has already covered and come to a consensus on Diana Troi being more useless than tits on my uncle.

 

[raider of the lost wifi]

I think this thread has already covered and come to a consensus on Diana Troi being more useless than tits on my uncle.

the actress herself even admitted such and just said "she's the one who feels shit."

 

[PyrrhicRustle]

Rather than Mr Plinkett them

He made a lot of similar points to you about how a lot of the TNG movies were like really shitty two parters with the characters switched out for dumb corporate movie versions of themselves.

 

[JamesFargo]

the characters switched out for dumb corporate movie versions of themselves.

Have you noticed how your boobs have started to firm up, @PyrrhicRustle?

 

[Tasty Tatty]

I like the TNG movies, but I agree that many have poor execution of good ideas.

FC was a good adventure but it didn't have much closure for the Borgs as they later keep poping up. I have no problem that they have more action than the show because it's meant to attract a different audience paying a ticket.

Generations as an introduction for the movies was ok, and Insurrection was too goofy. It was a more sophisticated version of The Naked Now.

Nemesis... yeah, let's not. I can't even talk much about it because I didn't even finished it, but what I saw was enough.

 

[JamesFargo]

Nemesis... yeah, let's not.

Now that you mention it, it's the only Trek film I've never watched.

TV Guide had an anniversary issue hyping up Nemesis and Enterprise. It couldn't pass even the most basic sniff tests. Picard driving a dune buggy. Tom Hardy looks nothing like Patrick; or James McAvoy, for that matter. Scotty B looking pained in his flight suit. Jolene's nipples could cut glass. Trip's a southern guy who's into big motors.

You can tell storm clouds were gathering just by looking at production stills.

 

[AnOminous]

I think this thread has already covered and come to a consensus on Diana Troi being more useless than tits on my uncle.

I liked Deanna Troi as a character, perhaps just largely because Marina Sirtis had nice tits and looked good in the Starfleet uniform, but they had absolutely no idea what to do with the character.