Star Wars Griefing Thread (Formerly about Last Jedi) - It's nothing like Empire... like.... at all, we promise

Oaat

like a dry heave
kiwifarms.net
Other than that I got no more news and spoilers to share other than a bunch of pointless droid names at Galaxy's Edge. But I do have something worth noting that I was recently told about... For those of you who might not remember who Jake Lunt Davies is, he's the new creature, ship and droid designer for Disney Wars and the monster responsible for BB-8, the Porgs, the casino aliens, the giant penis worm lady and so many other generic scifi horrors. Anyway, I recently found out the possible reason why there are no familiar aliens or droids in Star Wars anymore other than donut steals. Apparently Jake designs his creatures with emphasis on "realism" in other words some of the new aliens in the movies are actually his attempts at updating old aliens or simply wanting to do them his own way. For example:
View attachment 886479
This shitty not-Ithorian knockoff was called an "Ottegan" by Pablo Hidalgo but the original design for it, promotional cards and even the 3D models that Jake offered to EA for Battlefront had it labeled "Ithorian" (and "Ithorian Theologian") because a human mouth made more sense apparently. Its the same with so many other aliens, like the fat slug guys in the casino which are actually his attempt at "updating" hutts and the "bravaisians" are actually his attempt at "fixing" the Kubaz species. Because of this, I also found out why nu-Lucasfilm and Matt Martin are so hesitant to re-introduce Bothans, and its because Jake wanted to make his own version of Bothans. Remember those earless horse-dog guys from TFA and TLJ? Like the one supreme chancellor who got blown up in TFA? Well that's what a Bothan is now or at least Jake wanted them to be.
View attachment 886500View attachment 886518
Hence why original Bothans no longer appear explicitly or aren't outright named (except one briefly seen in Filoni's Resistance cartoon, but Matt "I wish I were trans" Martin said those shouldn't be considered Bothans until publicly stated as otherwise). Pablo Hidalgo then stepped in and just called them Tarsunts to avoid trouble, which was the name of a Bothan territory in the old EU. Tarsunts is now the name they use in guides and toys but there's rumors going around that this might just be another name for Bothans to them, like Tusken Raiders and Sand People which they plan to reveal in the future, or at least planned to. The reason Jake is probably encouraged to create like this (or is probably forced to) is possibly due to that KK or some higher ups want to replace aliens with donut steals so as not to give George any royalties, which as we've been discussing seems to likely be the case especially with the abandonment of anything pre-Disney including the OT. This is further noted in how the are no more mainline (orange) Mon Calamari in the films or Disney EU media outside of Ackbar (whose been killed) and some Mon Calamari cyborg with Grievous's body I talked about before, and with RO instead having albino variants and a blue variant.

So in short, the loss of old aliens seems to be either due to an artist's ego or due to Lucasfilm not wanting to give George any money for using his aliens, or maybe its both.

On another note, I've also been told that Disney didn't just kill familiar aliens via zombie ticks and viruses (although they still contributed plenty), but that in the new comics and novels its been revealed that the Galactic Empire (and by extension the First Order) had been committing attacks and mass genocide efforts (or at least have been trying to) against countless alien worlds as part of the human supremacy movement, causing many of the familiar aliens to become endangered or go extinct. The only ones I personally know of are the genocide of the Geonosians (bugmen from the prequels), an attempted bombing against the Twi'leks by the Empire and later an assault by the First Order, the genocide of the Lasats (aliens based on Chewbacca's earliest concept art), some brown skinned humanoid red heads with gold eyes who were genocided by Kylo Ren during a tantrum and finally Hutts who (although they were not technically massacred) lost all their influence and power after ROTJ with their cartels becoming replaced by Nikto cartels according to the Bloodline novel (I guess this debunks the Hutts return in IX since every new novel is 100% canon with the films...). There's also mentions of genocides and massacres in random media but not explicit as far as I know, but this is most likely nu-Lucasfilm's way of slowly getting rid of old aliens. Its made all the more blatant by how new aliens that never appeared before like the Not-Bothans above and these ugly fuckers are now called the most common and most widespread species in the galaxy who are just as numerous as humans despite never appearing before.
I guess this goes without saying, but WTF? It's not like the Ithorians didn't have mouths before, they were on the sides... like an alien. Jake Lunt Davies' art isn't even bad on it's own, maybe the "Disney is renting Star Wars" theory has merit? The other redesigns are all subtly worse as has been mentioned. Although I'm ok with more Mon Calamari scale colors, or at least I would be if I cared about Star Wars as anything except a derailing train I can't look away from.

The Geonosians are one of my favorite Star Wars races, but even pre-Disney the writers seem to only make them a race of cannon fodder.
 

Jub-Jub

kiwifarms.net
The Kylo Ren ride might simply end up being made into its own thing though separate from Aladdin since its far enough that it could be considered a small area of its own.
I could see it being fairly easily altered into something like the cave of wonders ride, but then you mentioned $600m each. Ooof Disney would likely want some return on that before switching it up.

I'm guessing the speeder has treads to give it a tank vibe even though that's stupid. They should make the tread more jagged and spin faster, a chainsaw like application for ramming other weaker speeders. Still stupid but might add a little element of fun.
 

GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slayer Regiment
kiwifarms.net
I guess this goes without saying, but WTF? It's not like the Ithorians didn't have mouths before, they were on the sides... like an alien. Jake Lunt Davies' art isn't even bad on it's own, maybe the "Disney is renting Star Wars" theory has merit? The other redesigns are all subtly worse as has been mentioned. Although I'm ok with more Mon Calamari scale colors, or at least I would be if I cared about Star Wars as anything except a derailing train I can't look away from.

The Geonosians are one of my favorite Star Wars races, but even pre-Disney the writers seem to only make them a race of cannon fodder.
Pretty much every alien Disney ends up using from the old media ends up looking like a mutilated version of the original. Here's their take on the Arcona with the original Arcona next to it for comparison where its now a wild funny animal rather than alien which kinda fits with Kennedy, Matt Martin and nu-Lucasfilm's view on aliens as being nothing more than comedic relief and pets.
1565659049558.jpeg
1565659230940.jpeg

The original art called it an Arcona night watcher. But later Pablo Hidalgo (who has a severe case of tism when it comes to names) had that retconned for the Forces of Destiny cartoon in which it became a gigantic Jakku sandworm with a tiny head and was renamed Night Watcher Worm to keep things consistent with Filoni Wars' depiction of an Arcona. This one however is something I'm not sure that can be pinned on Jake since most of its backstory comes from JJ and a european sculptor, although its possible Jake did the basic design sketch since that's his job. Filoni would later re-canonize original arconans in his Resistance cartoons, but even that's a matter of debate since he tried recanonizing Bothans with it but Matt Martin shot those down.

Jake also brought in his daughter to help him took a drawing his daughter made 3 years before Solo and used it to "update" the Gand (the species of Zuckuss the bounty hunter from ESB) for Solo. What they ended up doing to "improve" it was by giving it slingshot ears. Here's some comparison pics.
1565660507784.jpeg
1565660524940.png

Hidalgo would later rename it from a Gand to a Malbu due his own consistency tism. While initially a nameless nu-Gand though, the individual seen in the pic would later on be named after Jake's daughter Eloïse Aurora Mae, with the nu-Gand individual now be called Auromae Iselo.

Jake was also told to design more EU aliens for Solo (although he did a few before for RO) and much like with OT and PT aliens, they really don't look like their original counterparts at all. For example, the Coway which instead now look more like the Utai midgets from Revenge of the Sith.
1565660663990.jpeg
1565660619622.jpeg


The most notable change for though were the Pykes from Filoni Wars which were bug-headed dudes. Below are some pictures for comparison:

A Pyke as depicted in Filoni Wars.
1565660729410.jpeg


A realistic Pyke as depicted in unused concept art from 2007 (looks better than how it appeared in Filoni Wars).
1565660773728.jpeg


And a "realistic" Pyke as depicted by Jake Lunt Davies for Solo with a drastically different head and body and nothing in common with the last two other than the two "chin nostrils" which are just breathing devices rather than organic. And according to its official bio, its not a cyborg, that's just a mucus filled suit.
1565660838166.jpeg

Strangely, the first sketch he made for it looked more organic yet he didn't want to use it.

Only aliens he didn't significantly change were Ackbar and Nien Nub (due to being characters) and also Rodians but he's only ever made one and you hardly see it in Solo.
1565662899972.jpeg
Also of note is that aside from his Rodian being orange/brown (despite Rodians being stated in both old and nu-canon to only be green, black and blue) and not having sparkly eyes, this is supposedly a female Rodian. The original sketches were said by SW.com to barely look like a Rodian and were rejected. Although I'm looking through one of them now and she actually looks more like a female Rodian with starry eyes and traditional hair than the final design albeit she's still orange and his commentary about her seems dispassionate and indifferent, which just seems to raise further questions.

Edit: As an added bonus, here's how Jake wanted Maul to look like in Solo. He barely even looked like himself or a Zabrak.

It was surprisingly rejected. Thing doesn't even have feet or protective plating.

Second Edit:
Never mind. It seems Jake just doesn't think too fondly of the old aliens.
1565665761848.png

However, in a another post he mentions something interesting, in that he makes a lot of alien designs but the majority get rejected, including the Rodian girl's first one and the initial Pyke. Which again makes me suspect that what I said before about how its probably a combination of artistic arrogance and Lucasfilm refusing to use old stuff (nor make aliens look like believable people) being the main cause of the loss of old aliens. I'm just curious who is the one approving these awful aliens then. Neal Scanlan or Kennedy herself?

And here he is working on the titty siren.
1565666471256.jpeg


I could see it being fairly easily altered into something like the cave of wonders ride, but then you mentioned $600m each. Ooof Disney would likely want some return on that before switching it up.
I'm guessing the speeder has treads to give it a tank vibe even though that's stupid. They should make the tread more jagged and spin faster, a chainsaw like application for ramming other weaker speeders. Still stupid but might add a little element of fun.
The inside of the ride looks more like the OT than the rest of the park. All they would need to do is replace the nu-trooper helmets with original ones, switch Kylo Ren's outfit with Vader's and repaint the FO Tie-Figther to be gray rather than red and black. The challenge though might the waiting line since supposedly they wasted a ton of money on creating a realistic Rey hologram. But they could still replace it with Ackbar if they're done insulting Tim Rose.

Also agreed on the speeder thing. A chainsaw tread would at least be a suitable ramming vehicle.
 
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Ghostse

Waffle SS Untermenchenfurher
kiwifarms.net
I still don't understand the point of treads on a "speeder", a vehicle that is far more off the ground than clunkier and larger landspeeders which really don't need treads either since even with their weight they're high enough from the ground to not need them. Below is a list of the most common landspeeder models from pre-Disney as a reference.
View attachment 888083
The answer is the guy who designed it thought it would look cool.

I'm pretty much much with you though, it looks dumb and definitely not like something from Star Wars; for some reason they're trying to introduce Gritty Realism in to the franchise and it doesn't belong. One of the couple of things I hated about Rogue One was the fact the imperials were using a dull mudane APC-looking thing to transport the Kyber crystals, especially when they got a lot of the look and feel right in other places. Its a fucking galaxy far away, why am I seeing a normal tracked vehicle? Why didn't it hover? Or have legs? Or at least be pulled by some cool alien creature?
 
Last edited:

GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slayer Regiment
kiwifarms.net
The answer is the guy who designed it thought it would look cool.

I'm pretty much much with you though, it looks dumb and definitely not like something from Star Wars; for some reason they're trying to introduce Gritty Realism in to the franchise and it doesn't belong. One of the couple of things I hated about Rogue One was the fact the imperials were using a dull mudane APC-looking thing to transport the Kyber crystals, especially when they got a lot of the look and feel right in other places. Its a fucking galaxy far away, why am I seeing a normal tracked vehicle? Why didn't it hover? Or have legs? Or at least be pulled by some cool alien creature?
Because they want to subvert expectations I guess.

Pretty much every alien Disney ends up using from the old media ends up looking like a mutilated version of the original. Here's their take on the Arcona with the original Arcona next to it for comparison where its now a wild funny animal rather than alien which kinda fits with Kennedy, Matt Martin and nu-Lucasfilm's view on aliens as being nothing more than comedic relief and pets.
View attachment 888162View attachment 888172
The original art called it an Arcona night watcher. But later Pablo Hidalgo (who has a severe case of tism when it comes to names) had that retconned for the Forces of Destiny cartoon in which it became a gigantic Jakku sandworm with a tiny head and was renamed Night Watcher Worm to keep things consistent with Filoni Wars' depiction of an Arcona. This one however is something I'm not sure that can be pinned on Jake since most of its backstory comes from JJ and a european sculptor, although its possible Jake did the basic design sketch since that's his job. Filoni would later re-canonize original arconans in his Resistance cartoons, but even that's a matter of debate since he tried recanonizing Bothans with it but Matt Martin shot those down.

Jake also brought in his daughter to help him "update" the Gand (the species of Zuckuss the bounty from ESB) for Solo. What they ended up doing to "improve" it was by giving it slingshot ears. Here's some comparison pics.
View attachment 888214View attachment 888217
Hidalgo would later rename it from a Gand to a Malbu due his own consistency tism. While initially a nameless nu-Gand though, the individual seen in the pic would later on be named after Jake's daughter Eloïse Aurora Mae, with the nu-Gand individual now be called Auromae Iselo.

Jake was also told to design more EU aliens for Solo (although he did a few before for RO) and much like with OT and PT aliens, they really don't look like their original counterparts at all. For example, the Coway which instead now look more like the Utai midgets from Revenge of the Sith.
View attachment 888229View attachment 888225

The most notable change for though were the Pykes from Filoni Wars which were bug-headed dudes. Below are some pictures for comparison:

A Pyke as depicted in Filoni Wars.
View attachment 888232

A realistic Pyke as depicted in unused concept art from 2007 (looks better than how it appeared in Filoni Wars).
View attachment 888237

And a "realistic" Pyke as depicted by Jake Lunt Davies for Solo with a drastically different head and body and nothing in common with the last two other than the two "chin nostrils" which are just breathing devices rather than organic. And according to its official bio, its not a cyborg, that's just a mucus filled suit.
View attachment 888242

Only aliens he didn't significantly change were Ackbar and Nien Nub (due to being characters) and also Rodians but he's only ever made one and you hardly see it in Solo.
View attachment 888310
Also of note is that aside from his Rodian being orange/brown (despite Rodians being stated in both old and nu-canon to only be green, black and blue) and not having sparkly eyes, this is supposedly a female Rodian. The original sketches were said to barely look like a Rodian and were rejected.

Edit: As an added bonus, here's how Jake wanted Maul to look like in Solo. He barely even looked like himself or a Zabrak.

It was surprisingly rejected. Thing doesn't even have feet or protective plating.

Second Edit:
Never mind. It seems Jake just doesn't think too fondly of the old aliens.
View attachment 888345


The inside of the ride looks more like the OT than the rest of the park. All they would need to do is replace the nu-trooper helmets with original ones, switch Kylo Ren's outfit with Vader's and repaint the FO Tie-Figther to be gray rather than red and black. The challenge though might the waiting line since supposedly they wasted a ton of money on creating a realistic Rey hologram. But they could still replace it with Ackbar if they're done insulting Tim Rose.

Also agreed on the speeder thing. A chainsaw tread would at least be a suitable ramming vehicle.
And I know I said this already but I still can't get over how fucking nasty that Maul is. That REALLY subverted my expectations.
 

Shadfan666xxx000

kiwifarms.net
Given the aesthetics you can't help but wonder if Aladdin was always plan B, but why not make it Tatooine? Unless it's a rights issue of course.

Honestly, I bash SJWs but it's sounds like Lucas might be the main person to blame for this clusterfuck, either sell the whole ip or don't sell it at all, this half and half business has turned into a total disaster (not that SJW culture has helped matters)
Did you see what they did with what they rented? Nobody should trust them with owning a pet rock after this.
 
Pretty much every alien Disney ends up using from the old media ends up looking like a mutilated version of the original. Here's their take on the Arcona with the original Arcona next to it for comparison where its now a wild funny animal rather than alien which kinda fits with Kennedy, Matt Martin and nu-Lucasfilm's view on aliens as being nothing more than comedic relief and pets.
View attachment 888162View attachment 888172
The original art called it an Arcona night watcher. But later Pablo Hidalgo (who has a severe case of tism when it comes to names) had that retconned for the Forces of Destiny cartoon in which it became a gigantic Jakku sandworm with a tiny head and was renamed Night Watcher Worm to keep things consistent with Filoni Wars' depiction of an Arcona. This one however is something I'm not sure that can be pinned on Jake since most of its backstory comes from JJ and a european sculptor, although its possible Jake did the basic design sketch since that's his job. Filoni would later re-canonize original arconans in his Resistance cartoons, but even that's a matter of debate since he tried recanonizing Bothans with it but Matt Martin shot those down.

Jake also brought in his daughter to help him took a drawing his daughter made 3 years before Solo and used it to "update" the Gand (the species of Zuckuss the bounty hunter from ESB) for Solo. What they ended up doing to "improve" it was by giving it slingshot ears. Here's some comparison pics.
View attachment 888214View attachment 888217
Hidalgo would later rename it from a Gand to a Malbu due his own consistency tism. While initially a nameless nu-Gand though, the individual seen in the pic would later on be named after Jake's daughter Eloïse Aurora Mae, with the nu-Gand individual now be called Auromae Iselo.

Jake was also told to design more EU aliens for Solo (although he did a few before for RO) and much like with OT and PT aliens, they really don't look like their original counterparts at all. For example, the Coway which instead now look more like the Utai midgets from Revenge of the Sith.
View attachment 888229View attachment 888225

The most notable change for though were the Pykes from Filoni Wars which were bug-headed dudes. Below are some pictures for comparison:

A Pyke as depicted in Filoni Wars.
View attachment 888232

A realistic Pyke as depicted in unused concept art from 2007 (looks better than how it appeared in Filoni Wars).
View attachment 888237

And a "realistic" Pyke as depicted by Jake Lunt Davies for Solo with a drastically different head and body and nothing in common with the last two other than the two "chin nostrils" which are just breathing devices rather than organic. And according to its official bio, its not a cyborg, that's just a mucus filled suit.
View attachment 888242
Strangely, the first sketch he made for it looked more organic yet he didn't want to use it.

Only aliens he didn't significantly change were Ackbar and Nien Nub (due to being characters) and also Rodians but he's only ever made one and you hardly see it in Solo.
View attachment 888310
Also of note is that aside from his Rodian being orange/brown (despite Rodians being stated in both old and nu-canon to only be green, black and blue) and not having sparkly eyes, this is supposedly a female Rodian. The original sketches were said to barely look like a Rodian and were rejected. Although I'm looking through one of them now and she actually looks more like a female Rodian with starry eyes and traditional hair than the final design albeit she's still orange and his commentary about her seems dispassionate and indifferent, which just seems to raise further questions.

Edit: As an added bonus, here's how Jake wanted Maul to look like in Solo. He barely even looked like himself or a Zabrak.

It was surprisingly rejected. Thing doesn't even have feet or protective plating.

Second Edit:
Never mind. It seems Jake just doesn't think too fondly of the old aliens.
View attachment 888376
However, in a another post he mentions something interesting, in that he makes a lot of alien designs but the majority get rejected, including the Rodian girl's first one and the initial Pyke. Which again makes me suspect that what I said before about how its probably a combination of artistic arrogance and Lucasfilm refusing to use old stuff (nor make aliens look like believable people) being the main cause of the loss of old aliens. I'm just curious who is the one approving these awful aliens then. Neal Scanlan or Kennedy herself?

And I just found out that he created the titty sirens too.
View attachment 888392


The inside of the ride looks more like the OT than the rest of the park. All they would need to do is replace the nu-trooper helmets with original ones, switch Kylo Ren's outfit with Vader's and repaint the FO Tie-Figther to be gray rather than red and black. The challenge though might the waiting line since supposedly they wasted a ton of money on creating a realistic Rey hologram. But they could still replace it with Ackbar if they're done insulting Tim Rose.

Also agreed on the speeder thing. A chainsaw tread would at least be a suitable ramming vehicle.
This avoidance of classic species is baffling since the prequels had a pretty balanced mix of new and returning alien types
 

Bungus Scrungus

kiwifarms.net
Honestly, I don't think even the most cynical, pessimistic motherfucker could have imagined just how badly Disney would fuck up Star Wars within less than FIVE YEARS after acquiring it. Disney managed to take an absolute power house monster golden goose of a series, and kill it within less than half a decade. I just can't fucking believe it, even still. Them giving EA sole rights to make Star Wars video games on top of all that, as well? Genuinely, it feels like a bunch of stars aligned to have this occur, but then said stars all went supernova at the same time, amplifying how bad shit would be. What an absolute shitshow.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

May contain nuts.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Leia and Han were both handled with some reverence(in the films). But, Luke was a complete misfire...
Leia (and Mon Mothma) failed to run the Republic so it turned into an incompetent, ineffectual farce that couldn't even put up a fight against the reemerging Empire. To a point where Leia was head of the "Resistance", not the "New Republic Army" or whatever. The new Republic didn't fire a single shot in self-defense before being wiped out.
And Han is a deadbeat loser, who left his wife to hang out with his friend... and he's shit at his job, seeing how he managed to fuck up 2 deals in one day and ended up having his ship boarded by 2 hostile parties.

Neither of these characters were handled with reverence. Leia was kinda sorta treated well in the movies, but when you look at everything that happened between ROTJ and TFA canonically, she's incompetent as fuck and just to add insult to injury, starts some implied lesbian relationship with Holdo of all people.
 

Iceland Heavy

kiwifarms.net
Leia (and Mon Mothma) failed to run the Republic so it turned into an incompetent, ineffectual farce that couldn't even put up a fight against the reemerging Empire. To a point where Leia was head of the "Resistance", not the "New Republic Army" or whatever. The new Republic didn't fire a single shot in self-defense before being wiped out.
And Han is a deadbeat loser, who left his wife to hang out with his friend... and he's shit at his job, seeing how he managed to fuck up 2 deals in one day and ended up having his ship boarded by 2 hostile parties.

Neither of these characters were handled with reverence. Leia was kinda sorta treated well in the movies, but when you look at everything that happened between ROTJ and TFA canonically, she's incompetent as fuck and just to add insult to injury, starts some implied lesbian relationship with Holdo of all people.
And I remember when people ripped on the EU's New Republic for being written as too ineffectual. Fucking Borsk Fey'lya looks like a dignified, selfless statesman compared to the speds running the garbage fire that is the nu-Republic.
 

GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slayer Regiment
kiwifarms.net
Now this is odd...


Future Star Wars movies may have found a new studio to call home for filming/production. After a tease by Formula Money on Twitter, it is possible an announcement could come as soon as this week, that future Star Wars and other Disney live action movies may have a new permanent studio location in London.

Formula Money, a media outlet best known for covering all things F1 racing, have teased that a big splash is coming soon regarding Star Wars and Disney live action movies.
Any thoughts on why they're moving Star Wars films to "Formula Money"? Also it seems even live-action remake production might be moved over there. The commenters seem to suggest that Disney is doing this to save money on taxes and productions.
Ilene Lorraine Aultman, aka Lori Aultman: Vice President, Finance & Planning, Lucasfilm, Ltd.


Russell John Haywood: Assistant Regional Counsel, Walt Disney Studios


Rhonda Thomas Hjort: Deputy Chief Counsel, Lucasfilm

All three were also listed on the filings for Carbonado Industries Limited (UK), which was the limited company name used for trIXie aka Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker.
 

Adamska

Last Gunman
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
It's telling they're downgrading control or partial production to a sports company owned by a slowly dying and failing business because they fucked it up that bad; no seriously, if it's the Formula One Group, that means that it's the same lot of dipshits that own Sirius and who had many groups already fail under their watch... also maybe expect some Atlanta Braves for some reason. Can't wait to see how this fucks them over.
 

Ghostse

Waffle SS Untermenchenfurher
kiwifarms.net
This avoidance of classic species is baffling since the prequels had a pretty balanced mix of new and returning alien types
I think other posters nailed it with the licensing deal. Its not that they CAN'T use OT OH material, but they don't want to to avoid even the possibility of infringement claims. Just like Lens Flare Trek.

The licensing agreement that dissolved Viacom gave Paramount permission to use "Trek Volcabulary" but they never say 'Phaser' in the reboots, only "weapons".

Leia (and Mon Mothma) failed to run the Republic so it turned into an incompetent, ineffectual farce that couldn't even put up a fight against the reemerging Empire. To a point where Leia was head of the "Resistance", not the "New Republic Army" or whatever. The new Republic didn't fire a single shot in self-defense before being wiped out.
The thing that bothered me was "Where the fuck did the New Order get the ships?"
I remember someone talking about an early draft where the notDeath Star was supposed to be an Imperial Black-site Project, which would have made sense. Derelict Imperial facilities and fleet just waiting to picked up by someone who had a map of the locations. Its a rip off of some EU plot lines, but it would have at least addressed it.

Which I think is what pisses me off about Didney Waz; its not just that they're injecting SJW shit, but they're doing it in the laziest, lowest effort way possible.
 
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