Star Wars Griefing Thread (Formerly about Last Jedi) - It's nothing like Empire... like.... at all, we promise

Ghostse

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My worthless opinion:

Ignore the press releases. Disney's actions suggest that they are losing money on Star Wars and they are cutting their losses. Everything from films to the park is being scaled back.
TBF, corporations buying a golden goose for a great price, and then starving it by trying to save a few pennies on feed it is nothing new.
 

Iceland Heavy

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Are there? I'm raking my brain, but I can't find a similar instance, where after a massive, genocidal war, the winning side (that also ended up on the receiving end of the genocide) would then just go "We don't need an army from here on out and we will in fact have no system in place to deal with a resurgence of our mortal enemies."

There's a long tradition to military blunders and political failures, sure, but on this scale, I can't think of one.
I've heard defenders use the Western Allies during the interwar period as an example. But even they at least tried to rearm towards the end there and were facing an opponent that had already eclipsed them industrially.

It also doesn't make any sense, since if the Unknown Regions had such an abundance of resources, they'd be strip mined and no longer be "Unknown".
There's some lazy explanations for that too. The Unknown Regions are mostly uncharted but Snoke has maps apparently. Which completely ignores that the First Order has to then go and establish infrastructure and a population base to actually extract any of that on a scale rivaling that of the densely populated core that they abandoned. Maybe if they were automated to the extent that the CIS was it might be feasible but we know now from TLJ that they prefer to just force slave kids to dig it up.
 

Ghostse

Waffle SS Untermenchenfurher
kiwifarms.net
Are there? I'm raking my brain, but I can't find a similar instance, where after a massive, genocidal war, the winning side (that also ended up on the receiving end of the genocide) would then just go "We don't need an army from here on out and we will in fact have no system in place to deal with a resurgence of our mortal enemies."
No one went full re.tard to 'zero army' but several times for various reasons the victorious side failed to follow up on a victory and it came back to bite them, hard.

-There's Roman Empire as prime example. They had defeated the Germanic tribes but never followed through (and began recruiting them for calvary). They then didn't respond to massing numbers of people fleeing famine and got overrun.
-Byzantines defeated the Ottomans, (after employing them as mercenaries) but decided they liked them better as a counter-weight to other kingdoms in the area. Big woopsie there.
-The first crusade fell apart after taking jerusalem, and instead of pressing against still-fractured muslim forces, called it a day to enjoy their spoils.
-There's a long history of Chinese states dealing with an immediate barbarian problem, then turning attentions elsewhere and then regretting that decision, Genghis being the chief example.
-I'm reluctant to include Carthage here as when they squandered military advantage it was principally because post-victory they wouldn't have been able to press their advantage or it was so slight they never had a hope of making it to Rome, to say nothing of the general battlefield superiority of Roman land forces.
- Pre-Islam Mecca defeating the Medina army but not pressing the assault, and then getting straight rocked.
edit: Sri Lanka was taken over by Hindi invaders who all but wiped out the native buddists; the buddists were able to rally and remove the invaders after few generations. That's probably the most relevant one, as the Hindi powers would have been able to crush the buddists if they'd put their minds to it, but they were too busy infighting.


Of course that's all established empires falling to invaders.
For rebellions that initially succeed and then fall to a loyalist resurgence there is the English Civil War (though that's more about Cromwell being a gaping asshole on a power trip) and a couple of cases principally in the HRE, which is a little more dubious because they didn't bring down the HRE but were a huge thorn in their side until it fell apart.
I'm also sure there are plenty of cases in Latin America I'm forgetting.
 
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RomanesEuntDomus

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The Last Jedi damaged the brand so badly that they can't even move the merch anymore, I keep seeing and hearing about vast swathes of SW merchandise in stores constantly being put on clearance and almost none of it sells, we're at the point Disney could be offering to pay people to take the merch and they wouldn't be able to move any of it.

But, you know, I see these posts and tweets and so on out in the wild where people talk about getting emotional and crying over TLJ and I feel like I’m a member of an entirely different species. These brand defenders are claiming the movie was ackshually a success (a BILLION dollars) and keep repeating that it was "critically acclaimed" which is a meaningless phrase because for a long time now "film critics" aren't better equipped to judge the merits of films than anyone else...we're not talking about serious critics like Pauline Kael here, we're talking about glorified bloggers and soft-headed dweebs with liberal arts degrees who write in meaningless buzzwords and blurb-talk and have their intellectual energies severely taxed by having to write 250 word reviews of blockbuster films.

We haven't had a functioning movie criticism culture in a long time, there is very little actual critical thought or examination of cinema by film critics, it's mostly a bunch of people who approach film with what boils down to a "I don't know if it's art but I know what I like" dullard attitude. The only real reason for them to exist is that they will often rubber-stamp approval on enough dreck so as not to put off advertisers. "4.5 out of 5" "5 stars!" "90% on Rotten Tomatoes!",.
Certainly doesn't help that the people whining over TLJ's "critical acclaim" are the same people who think Doug Walker is a critic.

-There's Roman Empire as prime example. They had defeated the Germanic tribes but never followed through (and began recruiting them for calvary). They then didn't respond to massing numbers of people fleeing famine and got overrun.
-Byzantines defeated the Ottomans, (after employing them as mercenaries) but decided they liked them better as a counter-weight to other kingdoms in the area. Big woopsie there.
-The first crusade fell apart after taking jerusalem, and instead of pressing against still-fractured muslim forces, called it a day to enjoy their spoils.
-There's a long history of Chinese states dealing with an immediate barbarian problem, then turning attentions elsewhere and then regretting that decision, Genghis being the chief example.
-I'm reluctant to include Carthage here as when they squandered military advantage it was principally because post-victory they wouldn't have been able to press their advantage or it was so slight they never had a hope of making it to Rome, to say nothing of the general battlefield superiority of Roman land forces.
- Pre-Islam Mecca defeating the Medina army but not pressing the assault, and then getting straight rocked.
Those examples are interesting, but I'd argue that most of these deal with people making a miscalculation (such as focusing on the wrong problem or underestimating a certain threat). In many instances, these issues arose after some large empire grew complacant and believed itself "too big to fail", too. When you consider that the New Republic apparently ditched their army while still dealing with threats such as remnants of the Empire as well as the Hutt Cartels and so on, it's still sort of on a different level.
But I'll repeat, the examples are still pretty good.
 

Dr W

Heaven is void of light
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RomanesEuntDomus

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Adamska

Last Gunman
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I've heard defenders use the Western Allies during the interwar period as an example. But even they at least tried to rearm towards the end there and were facing an opponent that had already eclipsed them industrially.
They then wrote excuses for Ruin and JarJar, since there's no implication of that in the films. Even in my napkin script I took the time to state that they were going through a massive economic collapse that made military building a shit proposition.

Speaking of... it's time to finish it. End it.

So Last Jedi opens a month or two after the Raid on Starkiller Base, on a cold steppe planet rife with ruins and giant tree colonies. FN is still grieving for Rey, given he like many of the Republic forces sent to break out the bases' prisoners, thinks she was killed when the Star Destroyer tagged her. His mood's made somewhat worse as he isn't exactly trusted by many of the forces present, who sneer and remark he's "a throwback to the Empire", they clearly don't trust him for the most part. He does however have the trust of General Organa, who picks his brain for as much info as he can provide. He also still has Chewbacca, who both share in drinks due to their shared grief.

He slowly begins to develop a complicated but growing relationship with Temmin, as the two often are both similar to but different to each other. FN and Temmin are both loyal to a fault, care deeply about their allies and friends, and give their all for the mission. But where FN is a cooler head and far thinker, Temmin is hot-headed and very in the moment. You can see the nucleus of a friendship, but it isn't there yet due to their personality clashes.

The two are called in to the war room, where Leia, Ackbar, as well as Leia's XO Holdo are planning over something. Both FN and Admiral Ackbar had good intel on the First Order's main assets, of which includes one of the few good sized shipyards they control located on [Insert Midworld Here]. Ackbar himself was caught while on a raiding mission in the Mid-Rim and was the main spotter of it along with his crew. FN himself verifies it, since Commander Hux and his unit in general had to quell dissidents in the region and had to drydock there once due to a surprise Y-Wing bomber run.

Temmin himself advocates for an approach given his status of Chief Flight Officer, but Holdo and Ackbar are more cautious. Holdo comments that it may be a trap of some sort, showing a bit of disdain for FN and claiming an FO asset can't be taken for his word, which makes Leia frown, but Ackbar backs up her first point. He noted that its location is near a Hyperspace lane, and that makes it a good point for fast responses; they are already under supplied as is thanks to the Republic's growing financial crisis and the Cold War with the Hutts. He presses that they send a message to Coruscant for more troops.

Temmin disagrees, pressing that if they don't strike now, then the First Order can produce more Star Destroyers and other capitals; strike now and the Space War is in the Republic's favor and a rising threat crushed. FN actually backs this up himself, mentioning that the reason that the First Order has been doing so well in their fight to bring back an Empire is that mobility was their key. They design most everything to be transportable, and he imagines the Shipyard is likely to be towed away soon, possibly to Hutt Space since they take advantage of their independence and dislike of the Republic. Leia after much thinking agrees to the idea, though she doesn't like the gamble.

With their plans set, they get ready to set out for planning that raid.

As this happens, Rey finds herself awakening in a rough, but comfortable bed. She is still bandaged, but feels probably the best she's ever felt, made all moreso by her feeling safe for the first time in years. She's immediately suspicious, and tries to sneak out of said hut, attempting to not awaken a robed figure sleeping on the ground. It doesn't quite work when a series of whirring and beeping cause her to gasp and stagger on her butt.

It turns out its a rather amused R2 unit, beeping and jittering at her in a mix of exasperation and excitement, and she hears a figure stir near the floor. She then tries to threaten the man with a stick, which causes him to lightly pull it from her and thwack her softly in rebuke, a mild chuckle coming out at the amusement. The man casually uses the force to light a torch in a sconce, and you see it's Luke Skywalker. He's scarred up, weathered from age, is weighed somewhat from guilt, but you can't help but note throughout all of that, he is still smiling.

He tries to calm down Rey, but the long time out, her emotional state since Han died, and the fact she's not thinking straight just causes her to freak, and she tries to force push him. He is surprised for a bit and is knocked back slightly, and she tries to run.

The key word is she tries to run, as she finds out that she is on a fairly small island, and her ship is beyond damaged. She's trapped here. Again. Alone. Abandoned. She turns around when Luke comes towards her. She reels back before she finally just gives up, and begins to let out years of frustration, self-loathing, fear, and loss. Luke brushes past the force fireworks, and just proceeds to hold her, comforting her as he uses years of experience with kids to calm her down. He remarks that she lost so much, based on her ties to the Dark Side of the force. He can feel a variety of griefs, disappointments, and upsets.

He also provides an ear to listen to and offers her some blue m1lk, as it's always been something that he found helped during times of grief. She doesn't quite feel like it, but tired, she decides to do so.

During this impromptu meal, she 's mostly silent, before she haltingly asks who he is. He chuckles a bit and simply states an old war dog who was left behind by others. He gets into a bit of a row with R2 and argues a bit with the droid, both on wanting to just do as his previous masters did and it being tradition. Sighing, he then decides to ask who Rey is, trying to get out of the brewing argument. She takes some time to explain why she landed here, halting here and there when wounds were too fresh. The game ends when Luke learns about what happened to Han and who killed him. He himself begins to tear up, before he sighs, washes away most of the grief, and murmurs that "Ben, you were always my most difficult student... I wish it never came to this".

This familiarity baffles her and she inquires as to how he knew Kylo Ren's real name, until he gives up the game and reveals that he is in fact Luke Skywalker, at the moment the titular Last Jedi.
Rey is at first disbelieving that this is Luke, given that to most of the galaxy he died ten years ago while out in the Outer Rim establishing a New Jedi Academy. But, according to her intuition, guided by the force, she realizes that this is true. She gets pissed at this point and slaps him, demanding why he's been hiding all this time. Luke then comments that he really had no choice, as he then shows her his damaged beyond repair X-wing. He admits that Ben thought he killed him and took his students using their transport ship, but not before destroying everything on this planet. The planet being as sparse as it was, he probably was missed by scanners and thought dead.

He is frowning at this point before a smile comes back onto his face. He then admits that her own craft is salvageable, and that with parts from the X-Wing, they can both get off this planet. But he confesses a minor reluctance to do so until she promises one thing. Annoyed and suspicious, she asks what that could be. Luke then comments that he wants to train her to use the force as they work on the ship, as she shows a pretty strong connection to it but needs to be careful about the temptations of the Dark Side, which seem to be worming their way into her based on how badly disturbed she was.

She's dismissive at first, commenting that it was just a tool to be used, like her blaster and repair kit. Luke gets serious though and states that she should think back on her behavior and actions; in particular about her feelings. He asks if she always was so affected by her problems as before she tapped into her gift. She thinks a bit on it and realizes that she has been more impulsive and prone to lashing out than ever since Han died and she learned to bastardize one or two force techniques, but she saw it as how she grieved at the time.

Luke then admits that it's not bad to feel emotions, but the temptations of letting them rule you means you open yourself to the seductions of the Dark Side. Once ensnared, you tend to make mistakes you'd never wish to make. Ben learned that the hard way when he killed Han, based on the shift in the force that he felt and from what Rey said. Rey looks more uncertain now, and then reluctantly agrees to at least try to learn under Luke, who smiles as they shake hand and robot hand.

Speaking of Kylo Ren; he's actually getting chewed out by Snoke (who due to a coin flip, yes it's Jar Jar Binks) for making such mistakes at Starkiller Base. Ren is able to take it as it is something he's mostly used to by this point, but you can still see he's somewhat conflicted with emotions due to killing his father and due to being an insolent shit to a degree. Snoke then changes his tune however and comments that he is actually proud of him for managing to find the hate to kill his own father, as being able to cut ties like that is required as a lord of the Sith. Ren feels a mix of pride and disgust at feeling pride, as he thanks his master for the praise, but not before Snoke comments that he will soon be ready for one more task.

Ren goes out and his mood is made worse by Hux, who suggests where he and his "failed Jedi" can find the most uses. Ren tries to take out some of his frustration by verbally sparring with the man, referencing his failure in conditioning his soldiers given FN's betrayal. Hux doesn't bite to that and simply states that his track record still runs higher than Ren's given how he handled Starkiller Base; at least he was able to evacuate their jungle garrison. The two are just barely taken out of going into violence by the appearance of one of the Knights of Ren, who kneels like a feudal knight to Kylo and announces that one of their scout vessels has spotted a Republican scout in response. The two commanders then bury the hatchet and begin to plan together, Hux rather smugly hiding a weapon he's aware of.

The film would cut back to FN and the Republic at this point; the plan to take on the shipyard is a bold one, as Temmin and to a degree Leia were the ones to plan it out. The idea is to plan to take out that shipyard in a Pearl Harbor-esque way. The Mon Calamari ships will launch out their mixture of K, B, and Y wings in a bomber rush. The K-wings are to pin point bomb the dockwork tools and other important supply elements, while the B's and Y's focus on taking out unaware craft or under construction ships. They will be backed by a mix of A, E, and X wings.

The A wings will take advantage of their speed to scout and intercept any TIE fighters that go after the bombers, while the E's will escort the bombers directly. The X's will serve in their role as the allrounder fighter that made them still being used. The idea is to hit fairly quickly and then with some luck ready a second attack with their own defensive CAP if possible. It leaves the cruisers and frigates low on eyes and pinpoint defense, but it should be fine.
Rey and Luke split between fixing her ship and doing basic training to refine her force powers. One of the first examples of this training is actually a trick he picked up from Obi-Wan, where he blindfolds her and tells her to tap into that intuition to predict and move as he tries to thwack her with a stick. She's annoyed at first because he keeps hitting her, but he just chuckles and states he felt similar when he went through it, and notes at least it's not getting hit with a stun setting probe droid.

Eventually she gets annoyed, but then Luke mentions she's putting too much thought into it and the cynical act isn't going to help her; you have to trust in yourself and in the Force before you can really tap into it. Eventually she takes his advice and is able to swoop, dodge, and even jump over R2 who decides to join in the fun by trying to trip her. She also has her blaster out and it's aimed right at Luke's heart. He congratulates her and remarks she's a pretty fast learner.

Their relationship in a way is a mirror to Han and Luke given she in many ways is like Han, forced to grow up too fast when her parents sold her to slavery, had to escape and forge her own way as a junk dealer with trickery, and even not above grifting or even killing people. She clashes with Luke a lot at first, but slowly eases down as he continues to mentor her as they continue to work on the ship. She really struggles the most with understanding that the Force is not a tool; its in a way the spiritual background of the Galaxy, flowing through and guiding actions. Luke however, seems able to get through to her, mainly because she reminds him of a Ben that didn't give up hope yet and he was the best at getting to him before his fall.

Other touches you see is her shock and surprise at seeing large bodies of water for the first time, joy at seeing rain, and many other weather phenomenon that Luke and her decide to enjoy together, as they both hail from desert worlds. She's begun to heal emotionally and Luke deems her ready for one last test before they take off, as both he and she are impatient to get back, and he can still help train her during that time.

He takes her to the Dark Well, a strange object on the planet he found when building the temple. It was possibly the lair of one of the Old Sith at one point, as it naturally exudes the Dark Side of the force. He warns her that her greatest fears will be in there, but do not worry, it will not hurt her.

The Dark Well shows her to her horror herself killing FN, Chewie, and later Luke, under the purview of Ren as one of his Knights. She begins to panic, as she thinks she's seeing the future. But then she taps into her intuition and realizes that this isn't really a prophecy, it's her fear of becoming like Ren and killing those she cares about. She steps out of the well, shaken, but fine. Luke admits that this was a test that he himself didn't enjoy either, but she passed it just as well. With that final test, they head off to where the fleet was supposed to head post Starkiller Base Raid.

Speaking of that raid; for the first half hour it's going well, Temmin himself is flying alongside his wing and doing good point protection of the bombers, while FN himself is in an E Wing. Chewie is among the bombers, using the Falcon to join in the B and Y wings. He does however note that the dockyard seems to have less ships being built than he thought, but assumes it has something to do with it being transported soon. Things then turn when a new ship pops into the area.

It's an extremely large ship that vaguely looks like a Super Star Destroyer, but with less weapons. Temmin mocks it at first until it floods the area with hundreds of both TIEs and some new model of fighter, the very first Preybirds. The Dreadnought may be named after a battleship, but in this case it's a massive carrier that can flood the area with fighters and bombers. Things get worse when the fleet is spotted by hordes of Bounty Hunters, who were hired from Hutt Space and join in the hunt.

Dozens and dozens of men and women are killed in the slaughter; made all the worse when their home fleet is getting attacked. Several cruisers get raked with fire, and some of them begin breaking up. The CAP protection isn't enough, and these Bounty Hunters are some of the most hardened scum in the galaxy.

Leia demands that the attack force fall back, but Temmin refuses to let his crew die without a purpose; they have to win SOMETHING today. Holdo snaps back at him that this is a direct order from their commanding officer before he snidely cuts off her channel and directs some of the Y-wings to gun for the Dreadnought's engines, while the Bs and Ks are to finish off the dock. Holdo turns to Leia demanding she directly order him back, since they'll lose most of their projection power, but Leia sighs and confesses he's doing what she'd do in that spot, and orders the fleet to stick it out and move. Ackbar himself takes a risk by directly supporting their ships, dodging and weaving past fire and taking pot shots at the Dreadnought and taking pressure off the bombers.

It cuts to Hux being rather pleased with himself on the bridge, his negotiations with some of the greedier Hutts allowed this pincer move to happen; a new Axis of Evil if you will. This fleet gets wiped, and the First Order can essentially be free to run through the Mid Rim, as the weakened Republic will further spread itself too thin to contain what will surely be a two front war. He notices that some of the fighters and bombers are going for his engine and orders some of the fighters to come back to fight off this incursion.

Ren himself and his Knights are ripping through the bomber fleet, their sinister Preybird ships being the fastest sprinters in the First Order Arsenal. When he sees the Falcon however, Ren blanks for a moment as his emotions battle within him, and is nearly shot at by FN were it not for his force reflexes. He decides to further bury the legacy of his dad to get rid of that pain, and gets into a dogfight with the both of them.

FN is a pretty good pilot, but Ren himself is an expert, and he's clearly outmatched at first. Then he realizes something after getting hit and his engines begins sparking. These new fighters are fast, maybe even moreso than the A Wings, but their maneuverability is mediocre. He begins by trying to turn the fight into a turn battle, and is helped out by other wingmen when he tries radio'ing them about this. It's hard, but he manages to hold the Knights until the Dockyard crumbles at great cost.

Hux frowns at this, knowing that Snoke will not be pleased, but he commits to wiping out the main fleet. It goes well too, as a few cruisers and frigates light up; even if they lost the dockyard, this means the First Order now has fleet superiority in the region. At this point Leia begins to make an official order to fall back, the mission is over, but she is cut off by a direct hit to the superstructure and is injured along with Holdo and most of the crew. Morale plummets as they think she's dead.

Temmin sees the fireball, and commits to the engine attack. He takes great risks with his wingmen, and the mad lads dance through the flak field, his team dropping but still going to the horrified gunnery and fighter crews. He makes the attack run, and manages to damage some of the engines before skating off, thinned badly, but intact. At this point Ackbar takes command at the moment since it sounded like Leia and Holdo were killed, and orders a retreat; staying in risk range until as much of the pilots he can save falls back.

They won, but really, what price was this victory?
The Republic fleet limps out of the fight, having to play careful due to the bounty hunters still stalking them through the Mid Rim. The damage to the Radus wasn't as bad as thought, but most of the bridge crew are dead and her engines are leaking power a bit, slowing her down. Leia is barely alive, and Holdo herself just barely out of recovery. This leads to a very strained situation between the officers, as Holdo blames Temmin for this destruction of the fleet and how he could only spot the target, not realizing he handed the First Order a win. Temmin himself is angry, and tries to argue why he needed to take out that dockyard, but you can tell that he's conflicted, as he realized that the short term win might be demolished by their long term losses.

The biggest point of contention is this: both Holdo and Temmin share a similar rank and were deemed commanders in their respective fields. On the one hand, Holdo's technically now acting Fleet Admiral, given she was Leia's XO. But Temmin is loved by his crews and he leads their pilot forces and in the Republic, both would be of equal rank, despite his young age. Ackbar and FN are trying to play the peacemaker between the two, but it's clear that the two aren't willing to listen right now, and Holdo still dislikes and doesn't trust FN in the slightest. He sighs and just remains there to prevent a brawl or mutiny to happen.

Surprisingly it's Temmin who breaks, as Holdo does hold one last advantage; traditionally Fleet units are given higher seniority over the chief flight officers. He reluctantly acknowledges this, and she decides to confirm it by forcing him to stay grounded for a time, with an inquiry over his actions to be planned for later. Temmin is boiling with rage, but just accepts it and asks what their next stage of plans is. Holdo smirks and simply states that he'll find out later.

Hux reports directly to Snoke (Jar Jar) to give his after action report alongside Kylo Ren. Snoke muses for a time before first injuring them for damaging their newest weapons and losing a key strategic resource. He then chooses to reward both of them with praise and sparing their lives, as both managed to succeed in their own respective ways. The Fleet is in retreat, the First Order can now fight in parity for now, and many Hutts have alligned to his goals, giving him enough assets to potentially storm the Core Regions. He sends Hux off, but asks Kylo to stay.

Kylo manages to contain his annoyance and envy that Hux got the lion's share of the reward, but Snoke comments that Kylo became his prized pupil for a reason. But he still needs more refining, as he can sense his emotions, always so volatile and what made him his best, lack the conviction he once had. With that in mind, he asks Ren to look to his feelings deep within, and to sense out for a certain presence. Ren does so, and gasps and reels as he realizes something: his ex-master is alive. Snoke smiles and says his final test is to do one thing: eliminate Skywalker. Once he can do this; then he shall be complete and worthy of becoming a true Sith.

Rey and Luke meanwhile are just trying to find ways to stave off boredom before they come back to their pre-assigned fallback point. The two shudder in horror when they realized hundreds of thousands of lives were rapidly being snuffed out, and Rey feels the roiling fears, uncertainties, and dark emotions of her friends. The two of them must turn to them, and so redirect their course to follow them.

The sparks between Holdo and Temmin still fly during all of this; Temmin is getting frustrated with this long retreat and his period of grounding. He grows more and more angry as former crewmembers don't come back during recon, and he hates how there doesn't seem to be any hope. He wants and feels the need to know what the hell they're doing, where they're going. Morale is dropping because of this spat, and Leia isn't getting much better from her injuries. Temmin begins to muse on whether or not he should stage a mutiny, with FN being his last latch onto sanity.

FN himself is also getting annoyed; he gave up his own life and comrades to join the Republic out of a sense of right and wrong, and he's spent most of his time washing the brig and being kept out of the loop. He mainly complains to Chewie; who grunts in agreement at how bad the situation is. Things only start to change when Holdo finally announces to the group what the hell they're doing.

It turns out she was in secret communication with an old family friend and a lower ranking admiral of another fleet to send out a small reinforcement force. She kept their movements quiet since she also was using her connections to an old contact tied to the Hutts to use his planet to refit in exchange for some certain provisions. She kept mum until they were as safe as can be, especially given the new ground situation. Temmin is both annoyed and relieved, since at the very least he could understand why she did this and it wasn't a bad idea. FN also comments that he imagines it's because Temmin was friends with him, and she was just being paranoid. Chewie however looks suspicious...

It then cuts to Hux finishing a conversation with a figure you can't quite see who it is, before addressing his troopers. He gives a very strong speech about their progress in restoring law to this galaxy; that for too long corrupt Moffs and Senators would not care about the safety of their people. With this last strike; they will be able to free the Mid Rim from the tools of industrialists and nobility that call this region their plaything. Among the crowd is TR-8R, who cheers the loudest, baying for the blood of the man he once called friend.
The planet that they landed on is Kantobyt, a world that once made its money by building weapons for the Empire, but turned more to tourism and gambling when the New Republic won. The aesthetics can be best described as Birmingham turning to Vegas; glitz and glamor over an old sooty shell. The old Dockyards are mostly mothballed, but Holdo managed to get the governor to send out some of the older mechanics to reopen the main areas as a favor to her family. The fleet dock into it, and the group begin their work; they won't be able to spend more than a week or two at most, but a lot of the key repairs can be made here.

They are greeted by the governor, a fairly corpulent alien who mainly speaks in huttese, and their diplomat and translator, a protocol droid in gunmetal gray with black highlights. He welcomes them to the planet, and remarks that he is happy to see an his old friend's daughter. Holdo finally shows what she's really good at, and manages to extend and allow some offworld furloughs for the stressed Republican forces, though the Governor remarks that they should be cautious; his world stayed neutral, but he is still owes the Hutts a lot, and "the Republic isn't popular in those circles". He promises what he can, but they can't stay long.

Temmin, FN, and Chewie (along with quite a few of Temmin's wing and other crewmen) decide to take advantage of their furlough and explore the casinos and seedy bars that dot the world. Some levity scenes include: them getting kicked out of a bar after some Trandoshans start shit, Temmin trying and failing to score with a server in a casino, and FN being accused of cheating by a smuggler before they get into a drunken bout of revelry. They clearly needed some time off.

But things go south soon afterwards. As they start to return to the docks and they notice that the Radus and a couple of other ships were lifting in space. FN wonders why they're disembarking now Chewie snarls and forces them to maneuver to an abandoned area of the Yards. Temmin demands why they did this, but is interrupted when the defense system starts shooting at the returning crewmen. the duo pales as they realizes what happened; they were SOLD OUT.

The trio land in the yards and note that the place was staffed by First Order troopers. You can also see the older mechanics happily working on retooling the area to begin producing new Preybirds and other light craft. The trio slowly sneak through the trooper area, mainly thanks to FN highlighting their standard patrol routine.

It is also at this point that Rey and Luke arrive in the system, and they are guided to the old dockyards. The feeling of death was there, and Luke stills as he recognizes a presence he hasn't felt in years. He motions to Rey, and the two begin to investigate the dockyards quietly, slowly avoiding or using the Force to redirect First Order troopers as needed.

Both parties meet up about where the holding cells have been built into the dock. FN stills and mutters her name before he runs over to Rey, hugging her and just feeling relief that she lives. Rey stills a bit before she hugs him back. Luke just smiles and laughs before he gets caught in a hell of a hug by Chewie. This moment is interrupted when they hear a voice hiss over at them.

It turns out Holdo, Ackbar, and the governor are locked up, and seemed to have been tortured for at least a few days. Ackbar is the best off of the three, and solemnly remarks that it turned out that the governor's translator was programmed as a First Order Agent, and betrayed the Fleet's location. They tried to fight back, but they were surprised when the mechanics' repairs dismantled most of their weapons. Holdo at that point mutters and admits that in this case Temmin would've been useful for this fight. She reluctantly admits that she panicked, and froze at a critical point. They sadly remark that Leia has been taken, to where they do not know. Luke visibly stiffens before he makes a vow to find her. Ackbar then notices him and is stunned that Skywalker is alive. The discovery invigorates the prisoners.

The group decide that the situation is dire, and they must flee and head back to Coruscant; the fleet is lost. Luke and Rey use the force to open locks and they proceed to try and make for the fighter docks. Which leads to a big battle for the docks given they'll need to take it by force and be quick. Temmin leads the assault, while Holdo plans out how to delay reinforcements with R2 and BB-8's help.

FN is beginning to use his old codes to unlock the ships before a familiar voice demands he face his death. It's his old friend TR, who challenges him for killing their commander. The fight is a mix between melee and range, and eventually FN wins. His friend spits at him and demands that he finish the job, but FN can't pull the trigger, much to TR's disgust. He coldly mentions what makes him different, and FN mentions that he can't kill his own brother, which makes him laugh bitterly and remark he'll just keep going after him. FN stuns him as he sighs... he never wanted to kill Phasma, but he had no choice at the time.

Luke himself decides to confront Kylo and his old students, but Rey refuses to leave him for that. Kylo is with his knights, who have just killed Admiral Ackbar, who was heroically defending the small transport ship that held Holdo and the governor as well as a dozen other crew members. The knights freeze, and one or two of them mutter "master?" under their breaths. Kylo then jerks a bit before regaining his cool. He coldly states that this must be a ghost, since Luke Skywalker has been dead for over 10 years. Luke smiles sadly and says that no... he didn't die. Just like how Kylo never did quite kill the troubled child inside him. He can still feel the young teen he trained and raised in part, and that it's not too late to come back into the light.

Some of the knights pause a bit in this, feeling remorse and other contained emotions, and Kylo himself feels a storm of emotions before he squelches it. His voice is a bit thick, but he states that it's too late for that. He just wants the pain to end. He then clashes with a reluctant master, his knights supporting as needed while Rey plays interference. Luke and Kylo are about equal; Luke is reluctant to kill his own nephew and isn't trying as much, and Ren himself is torn to a degree himself. Rey's unique tendency to prefer range gave her a good adantage over the knights, though Luke mentally begs her to try and not kill them.

Ultimately the fight itself is a stalemate, as the docks begin to crumble from the battle around it. Luke tries one last time to convince his nephew to repent, and Kylo jerkily tries to go for a stab instead. Rey screams no, and shoots him in the chest. Luke looks at her in horror, but she just remarks she had her blaster on stun.

The knights flee with their Commander, and she and Luke barely escape in time before the docks split in half from structural damage. The mood is dark; they lost Leia to captivity and their fleet is destroyed but there's a silverlining. Luke Skywalker is back, and they still live; they can fight another day.

*INSERT SLIGHTLY DOWN BUT STILL HOPEFUL CREDITS*
 

GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slayer Regiment
kiwifarms.net
Clone Wars lasted 12 seasons
Resistance lasted 2

Get fucked.
Hell even the shitfest that was Rebels was at least able to last 4 seasons. Its like I said weeks ago when discussing Resistance. It was a shit series with shit animation, shit characters, shit reception, a shit premiere, a shit ton of backlash on youtube and shit viewership/ratings that were even lower than those for Disney's baby show Puppy Dog Pals (which is fucking getting a third season). How do you fuck up so hard that a baby show about dogs manages to fuck over Star Wars and what was essentially Disney's attempt at making their own Filoni Wars?

To make matters worse, Fox is getting its shit kicked in by stressed Disney execs.

Even Variety doesn't want to touch Star Wars anymore.
1565821481200.jpeg

Your crushed dreams sustain me!

Edit:
I've found a page from one of the Holdo comics, it's not the one I saw a few days ago but anyway. If I'm not mistaken, she kills the plant because she uses its fluid (blood?) as hair dye.

View attachment 890442
That's the comic I posted about last week. The darn plant isn't even dangerous to humans. Its a freaking bug-eater. I even posted a pic of an FO officer doing the same thing with animals but for more practical and useful purposes. All this shit does is make the Resistance/Rebellion look like assholes.
 

Godzilla@1989

Marlon Brando's eyes!
kiwifarms.net
Hell even the shitfest that was Rebels was at least able to last 4 seasons. Its like I said weeks ago when discussing Resistance. It was a shit series with shit animation, shit characters, shit reception, a shit premiere, a shit ton of backlash on youtube and shit viewership/ratings that were even lower than those for Disney's baby show Puppy Dog Pals (which is fucking getting a third season). How do you fuck up so hard that a baby show about dogs manages to fuck over Star Wars and what was essentially Disney's attempt at making their own Filoni Wars?

To make matters worse, Fox is getting its shit kicked in by stressed Disney execs.

Even Variety doesn't want to touch Star Wars anymore.
View attachment 891029
Your crushed dreams sustain me!
Bob Iger is about to a fucking idiot when he realizes fucking with James Cameron and the rest of Fox’s executives and properties was a dumb move.

Speaking of Iger, I can imagine the reaction he’s having right now.
 

Flexo

serial #3370318
kiwifarms.net
Hell even the shitfest that was Rebels was at least able to last 4 seasons. Its like I said weeks ago when discussing Resistance. It was a shit series with shit animation, shit characters, shit reception, a shit premiere, a shit ton of backlash on youtube and shit viewership/ratings that were even lower than those for Disney's baby show Puppy Dog Pals (which is fucking getting a third season). How do you fuck up so hard that a baby show about dogs manages to fuck over Star Wars and what was essentially Disney's attempt at making their own Filoni Wars?
Gee, how in the world could they have made a show that would have been a hit?

It's just a complete mystery...
 

Dom Cruise

kiwifarms.net
I found an incredibly comprehensive article about Galaxy's Edge and its construction written by a former Disney insider columnist (Al Lutz himself) who offers some new details along with some shit about cancelled elements I've posted about before but with new saucy bits, and best of all... BEHIND THE SCENES DRAMA!
Its an interesting read and I suggest you all give it a whirl. It even goes into detail on the drama going on during the park's construction, and its verifiable since everything he says matches up with what I've said and posted about the interiors of the Kylo Ren ride, which he adds further by explaining that the reason the ride didn't open with the rest of the park was due to numerous technical problems and delays. Apparently the ride isn't working as intended. He also mentions a shit ton of other things that were cut including what happened to the aliens and performers that would be at the park, like the Nikto bounty hunter. In short, the reason the park is so bland and worthless is because it was designed for Instagram whores and Bob Chapek along with Disney execs are revealed to be fucking idiots at last! Its like that Tell All book we've been waiting for (almost)!

And to show Disney/Lucasfilm/Jake Lunt's "WTF" decision-making when it comes to aliens, the picture below was their new take on Banthas which were going to be used at Galaxy's Edge before getting replaced by a Dewback which got it quickly cancelled.
View attachment 889891
And here's the unfinished and cancelled Bantha/Dewback animatronic.
View attachment 889902

Also here's a very fitting meme.
View attachment 889893
So it sounds like more than anything really political, they simply cheaped out on us.

This has been the trouble with the Disney parks for decades is it's run by cheapasses, things were just never the same for the theme park division after the failure of Euro Disney, the real turning point was the closure of the 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea ride, the coolest ride that's ever been built, closed and destroyed just to save a little money.

So 25 years after that this is what we get.
 

Ghostse

Waffle SS Untermenchenfurher
kiwifarms.net
Those examples are interesting, but I'd argue that most of these deal with people making a miscalculation (such as focusing on the wrong problem or underestimating a certain threat). In many instances, these issues arose after some large empire grew complacant and believed itself "too big to fail", too. When you consider that the New Republic apparently ditched their army while still dealing with threats such as remnants of the Empire as well as the Hutt Cartels and so on, it's still sort of on a different level.
But I'll repeat, the examples are still pretty good.
Looks like you might not have seen that I added Sri Lanka, which is pretty more what you're looking for.

The tl;dr is that some Hindu Guy was leading a mercenary army and decided to go conquer Sri Lanka for Shiva. Or Geensh. Or Cows. Whatever.
They landed 25,000 soldiers and proceeded to beat the ever loving shit out of the native Buddists - who'd grown soft since largely uniting the country, but there was lots of political rivalries so they refused to band together under a single ruler to try to resist the invaders, so got taken out one by one. The Buddists were driven to mountain areas in the south where the Hindi forces harrassed them for a while, then decided this was too much work, and gave up. The Buddists finally were united into a Rebellion by a single King operating from the still unconquered south who pushed the Hindi's all the way to the northern coast, where they were too entrenched and too well defended geographically (and able to be supplied by Hindi rulers on mainland India) for the Buddists to dislodge them. The north was finally conquered about 200 years later, but by that point they were too different politically, culturally, and ethnically, and the unification only lasted the rule of a single appointed monarch.

The question of whether or not the Hindi dynasty might have be fully dislodged by the native population or if the Hindi kingdom might have managed a counter-counter-attack comeback was rendered moot by the arrival of the Portuguese, who beat the shit out of the northern coastal kingdoms. After that, the North were under some sort of foreign rule until the whole country gained independence, but untouchable by the buddists in the south as it was the European base of operations.

The north made up a small minority of the country, but were used to being the rulers. Post-independence universal sufferage didn't go over with them very well. This is the origin of the Tamil Resistance.
:tmyk:

(Real History Note: Up until getting their shit pushed in, the civilizations of Sri Lanka were quite advanced engineering wise, being somewhat comparable to the Roman Republic [note: REPUBLIC not EMPIRE] at around the same time or a little earlier. They were able to build roads and water-works projects that are still in use today. The Sri Lankans however ended up stagnating - likely because their isolation didn't force them to innovate. Their civilization got pushed way back by the Hindi invasion, and never really fully recovered. Even modern Sri Lanka hasn't been able to reestablish themselves to the extent of Classical Sri Lanka, demonstated by the fact entire ruined cities keep being discovered.)

Speaking of disorganized poltical units being taken one by one...
I know that it would be too much for Didney Waz, but what would have actually been a pretty interesting take would be to have the FO be the separatists an alternative version of the Clone Wars, where Palpatine never took over; the FO invades, and the New Republic is too weak and the individual planets too self-absorbed, to mount a coordinated response. By the time they have realized the FO is a threat, they're too established - using little better than slave labor and ruthless efficiency to build a new fleet & army that isn't just imperial hand-me-downs & salvage.
By the time Leia's managed to convince the senate to deploy the Navy for a counter attack, its too late and they've build the notDeathStar, which smashes the fleet. Blah blah blah, Rey and Hans manage to allow Poe to destroy the notDeathStar. Destroying the notDeathStar would set the FO back a great deal, but as it took out the Republic Navy & Republic Command, and the fightiest Planetary Militia/navies, before being blown up, the FO would then have a nearly free hand to use their intact Navy to start conquering.
The political infighting of the Senate, and the near complete destruction of the Republic Navy, leaves them a free hand with no wide-scale push back.
This could have set a fun back drop for TLJ where maybe Leia is trying to coordinate some sort of counter attack, and is shown using her force powers to mindtrick squabbling politicians into cooperation - showing she's being tempted by the dark side. Which would have set up an eventual rejection of the darkside and underhanded tactics, finally succeeded in using her own leadership to get the senate united enough to organize a relief force to rescue Holdo's fleet, and do some damage to the FO; far from a victory, but hope.
IX would be the final climatic battle where the Rebellion has learned that the FO is able to keep their planets subjugated by the use of the force through a Sith Macguffin. Destroy the MacGuffin, end the FO threat once and for all.


Yeah, I know, i said 'interesting' and not '#woke strong female pansexual girl power pandering' so Disney wouldn't be interested, and even if they were, it'd be beyond their Star War's writing staff's ability to execute.
 
Last edited:

GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slayer Regiment
kiwifarms.net
This video really goes the extra mile in explaining so much stuff.
This explains everything...
truth.png

And his source seems to be trustworthy since its the same one that said much of what is happening now in regards to GE. And their plan would've worked too if not for those meddling angry fans. As well as Rian's inability to direct and JJ's inability to forge any creativity or world building.

And the video points out that Walmart has begun eliminating their SW toy sections. With that and Toys R Us gone, Disney just lost their biggest source of SW income.
2.png

Also I guess I finally know how much the profit is (or was) from book sales thanks to this chart. For more info on the toy losses, here's the video from the Echo Base channel.

Some sad news I just found out though, Shanon McRandle the model who portrayed Mara Jade Skywalker (mostly for pics, promotions, merch, comic depictions and convention/live performances and was the original basis) before Disney gave her character the shaft and cut her off, got cancer and a debilitating bone disease last year so she started a GoFundMe. She's had some support but its been tough... I'm just sad I didn't know about it sooner. I pray that she got the treatment she needed then...

In hopefully less depressing news though, Marvel just lost one of their biggest sources of income.
Good luck trying to push your comics now Dr. Aphra.
 
Last edited:

Ghostse

Waffle SS Untermenchenfurher
kiwifarms.net
In hopefully less depressing news though, Marvel just lost one of their biggest sources of income.
The Lootcrate shit is the most delicious Schadenfreude. I feel bad for absolutely no one involved, except the warehouse workers. Arguably receiving nothing is better than getting overpriced low quality "geek" detritus.

I didn't realize that Lootcrate was being used to push Marvel subscription numbers but that makes sense.
 

CheezzyMach

Superior Tentacle Rapist
kiwifarms.net
This video really goes the extra mile in explaining so much stuff.
This explains everything...
View attachment 891053
And his source seems to be trustworthy since its the same one that said much of what is happening now in regards to GE. And their plan would've worked too if not for those meddling angry fans. As well as Rian's inability to direct and JJ's inability to forge decent world building.

And the video points out that Walmart has begun eliminating their SW toy sections. With that and Toys R Us gone, Disney just lost their biggest source of SW income.
View attachment 891062
Also I guess I finally know how much the profit is (or was) from book sales thanks to this chart. For more info on the toy losses, here's the video from the Echo Base channel.

Some sad news I just found out though, Shanon McRandle the model who portrayed Mara Jade Skywalker (mostly for pics, promotions, merch, comic depictions and convention/live performances and was the original basis) before Disney gave her character the shaft and cut her off, got cancer and a debilitating bone disease last year so she started a GoFundMe. She's had some support but its been tough... I'm just sad I didn't know about it sooner. I pray that she got the treatment she needed then...

In hopefully less depressing news though, Marvel just lost one of their biggest sources of income.
Good luck trying to push your comics now Dr. Aphra.
How could Disney fail this hard?
 

GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slayer Regiment
kiwifarms.net
The Lootcrate shit is the most delicious Schadenfreude. I feel bad for absolutely no one involved, except the warehouse workers. Arguably receiving nothing is better than getting overpriced low quality "geek" detritus.

I didn't realize that Lootcrate was being used to push Marvel subscription numbers but that makes sense.
I'm surprised myself but it would explain a lot and how Marvel manages to push so many shit comics. And I know this isn't very related, but I recall Clownfish TV also discussing a WB exec who addressed the slow death of DC and how its number is up. If Marvel goes kaput too, this will really change the playing field, not just for Disney Wars but for indie publishers.

I mean really, its amazing how all this is happening, ever since GE opened its been one disaster after another (not accounting for Aladdin, Lion King and Avengers, although 50% of their revenue goes to taxes and a big cut goes to cinemas). Its as if the forces of destiny (reference intended) are looking to fuck over The Mouse for flying too close to the sun.
Icarus Mouse.jpg
 
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