Star Wars Griefing Thread (Formerly about Last Jedi) - It's nothing like Empire... like.... at all, we promise

Dr W

I have no mouth and I must scream
kiwifarms.net
I never said they werent

I said the MOVIE said they werent [even though that didnt make sense] and you need to judge the movies internal logic by the standard it sets for itself to be able to suss out the deeper meanings of the story and narrative
What I've stated in passing before, and what I will now expound upon, is that the movie does not have an internal logic, or system of rules. It is a sequel, and therefore should be subject to the same rules of reality that the rest of the franchise is, but it does not obey these rules. People fly around in space for no reason. Hyperspace ramming is suddenly a viable tactic, despite the fact that it was never brought up before. Random children with brooms have mastered the Force. Rey is just as infallible as before, utterly raping the point that, no matter how much raw power someone has, they need at least some training before they can do things that are incredible. Things and people pop into and out of existence seemingly at random. It's like a five year old wrote it.

Look at the files below, maybe I'm not wrong about this last point.
 

Attachments

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
What I've stated in passing before, and what I will now expound upon, is that the movie does not have an internal logic, or system of rules. It is a sequel, and therefore should be subject to the same rules of reality that the rest of the franchise is, but it does not obey these rules. People fly around in space for no reason. Hyperspace ramming is suddenly a viable tactic, despite the fact that it was never brought up before. Random children with brooms have mastered the Force. Rey is just as infallible as before, utterly raping the point that, no matter how much raw power someone has, they need at least some training before they can do things that are incredible. Things and people pop into and out of existence seemingly at random. It's like a five year old wrote it.

Look at the files below, maybe I'm not wrong about this last point.
The Narrative and story has a set of logical. It doesnt WORK but the narrative has a internal logic. It breaks plot, stories, characters, and the universe to make its logic seem to work

Why did the first order not finish it off with their fighters?
>They would have to go back to the MIC to buy more weapons. But not get them because the eternal war is now over

Its a consistent logic but also exceptional and autistic
 

Dr W

I have no mouth and I must scream
kiwifarms.net
The Narrative and story has a set of logical. It doesnt WORK but the narrative has a internal logic. It breaks plot, stories, characters, and the universe to make its logic seem to work
What internal rule is kept consistently? "Men bad"? "Purple hair good"? "Mary Sue Good"?
There is no rule that is mentioned to have existed that is followed. A cursory examination reveals that the movie does not make logical sense.
 

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
What internal rule is kept consistently? "Men bad"? "Purple hair good"? "Mary Sue Good"?
There is no rule that is mentioned to have existed that is followed. A cursory examination reveals that the movie does not make logical sense.
Theme: The Military Industrial Complex [and Income inequality] is the real source of evil in the galaxy and not a manichean dialectic of good vs evil.
For that to work both the Resistance and First order must exist in stupid ways in service to that theme.
Thats why FUEL and RESOURCES were a plot element
Thats why no one responds
The only way to break out of the rigged game is a disruptive strategy [by holdo]. And done by Rose and Poe on the planet when they realized the way out is to not play the game and break it
Rei realized that by breaking the Light saber. Kylo realized it but then rejected it

But to create this disruption you have to kill all the commanders....but you can't kill Leia [because your killing luke] so "A Wizard did it" and she saved herself

the story breaks down in service to Rian Johnson's thematic narratives [and their logic]
 

Mola Ram

Self Righteous Ego Bastard Asshole
kiwifarms.net
What I've stated in passing before, and what I will now expound upon, is that the movie does not have an internal logic, or system of rules. It is a sequel, and therefore should be subject to the same rules of reality that the rest of the franchise is, but it does not obey these rules. People fly around in space for no reason. Hyperspace ramming is suddenly a viable tactic, despite the fact that it was never brought up before. Random children with brooms have mastered the Force. Rey is just as infallible as before, utterly raping the point that, no matter how much raw power someone has, they need at least some training before they can do things that are incredible. Things and people pop into and out of existence seemingly at random. It's like a five year old wrote it.

Look at the files below, maybe I'm not wrong about this last point.
Are those storyboards real?
 

ZMOT

kiwifarms.net
Now flash forward 20 years later and increasingly all of western media is going downhill while Japanese media remains exciting, it really makes you think.
because whatever you might think about the last isekai or harem rehash, for the most part it comes from a single author or mangaka who just wants to do a good story and isn't trying to sell a product to 20 different cultures with different values to maximize profits.
 

Dr W

I have no mouth and I must scream
kiwifarms.net
Theme: The Military Industrial Complex [and Income inequality] is the real source of evil in the galaxy and not a manichean dialectic of good vs evil.
For that to work both the Resistance and First order must exist in stupid ways in service to that theme.
Thats why FUEL and RESOURCES were a plot element
Thats why no one responds
The only way to break out of the rigged game is a disruptive strategy [by holdo]. And done by Rose and Poe on the planet when they realized the way out is to not play the game and break it
Rei realized that by breaking the Light saber. Kylo realized it but then rejected it

But to create this disruption you have to kill all the commanders....but you can't kill Leia [because your killing luke] so "A Wizard did it" and she saved herself

the story breaks down in service to Rian Johnson's thematic narratives [and their logic]
Was it MauLer or HFM or E;R, which one of those pointed out that you can string together any sequence of events in this movie, any sequence of lines, and demonstrate that it's what the movie's about, since it's so vapidly devoid of any actual theme. Just as Rey is devoid of character and must be projected upon to become compelling to the audience, so to is the plot void of character, and it too must be projected upon to become compelling to the audience.
 

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
Was it MauLer or HFM or E;R, which one of those pointed out that you can string together any sequence of events in this movie, any sequence of lines, and demonstrate that it's what the movie's about, since it's so vapidly devoid of any actual theme. Just as Rey is devoid of character and must be projected upon to become compelling to the audience, so to is the plot void of character, and it too must be projected upon to become compelling to the audience.
No thats 100% what Rian wants as a theme. He lacks ANY ability to tell a story with nuance. The more ham handed it is the more thats what Rian wants to tell you

>Its about failure
Is a great example of his lack of nuance
 

Mola Ram

Self Righteous Ego Bastard Asshole
kiwifarms.net
Yes,

the movie was 80% of the original first draft
Holy balls. I looked them up, and yup, totally real. That is legitimately shocking. Star Wars under Lucas prided itself on its artistry. What the fuck happened to Ralph McQuarrie?

The fact that Rian Johnson turned in those storyboards and wasn't fired on the spot tells you everything you need to know about Disney Star Wars.
 

PseudoScrooge

kiwifarms.net
I've been reading this forum for a while; I came in around page 500 (believe it or not from an internet search looking for the truth about Galaxy's Edge). I just wanted to say thank you to GeneralFriendliness for his reports and info, but also to everyone here who posts. It's made me so happy to know that I'm not alone in my sadness and horror for what Disney's done to Star Wars. Revulsion is a good word to describe my everyday feelings.

There was a list a few pages back of ST plot holes, and it was great. I was going to ask for, or start making myself, a list of travesties that have been done to the franchise by Disney. Specifically, a list of injustices to beloved characters, designs, and lore, as well as a list of SJW/homo-centric/agenda-pushing/Tumblr asinine ridiculousness that has been forced into the comics, books, and everywhere else. It strikes me that it may be too HUGE to compile, because it floods in DAILY. However, my point is, I need help in addressing my friends and family. They are so blinded in a deep haze, that they can't "see the forest for the trees," perhaps because as I said, there is just so much. Even real fans I know--for example, I tuned into the livestream for the last Celebration, like a fool. Some of the very same people who were jumping up and down and screaming against the atrocity that was Episode 8 the year before were IN the audience, jumping up and down and screaming for more Disney product. Worshipping at the feet of the Mouse. It made, and makes, me ill. I fully expect who you guys call "normies" to be dislocating their jaws with both hands, to allow the swallowing of more and more Disney garbage and more product to cram down their throats...but not the people who are supposed to be smarter than that!

I guess I was in the very same haze myself for a while. I take my kids to the Marvel movies because they like them, and because I grew up on the REAL stuff, the real Silver Age-goodness, and not Hollywood's poor facsimile. It was something we could do together, and then of course 2012 happened. I predicted Disney would go in the direction of nostalgia and be "safe" before veering off in their own direction, having long known what an evil company they were, and what they really stood for. (When I was a kid, Michael Eisner famously announced that "our Minnie Mouse has nipples.") And then Episode 7 and Rogue One happened. I was the dog in the comic strip, surrounded by flames, saying "This is fine."

And then Episode 8 happened.

I'd avoided all info and spoilers, and just went to the theater. After the first scene, I thought someone was playing a joke on me, from somewhere. And then, after several minutes of flat, awkward attempts at humor and WTF moments...my beloved Admiral Ackbar was sucked out of existence, and thrown away like an effing flushable wipe.

It became crystal clear to me, instantaneously. Why aliens & their designs were being replaced one at a time by inferior DOCTOR WHO rejects. Why beloved main characters were being killed off. Why classic designs of genius were being replaced by lackluster, unoriginal, well, Donut Steals. This wasn't a handing off of the reins, to build upon what had come before.....this was an assassination.

It did blow up in their greedy faces. It would be bad enough if mere bad writing and poor planning killed SW, but instead they have crammed it at every turn to overflowing with Bizarro World-politics and SJW agenda, and I'm done supporting it, and their Marvel (wait, I meant, "The Female Captain Marvel & her H-Grade heroes Saga) tripe too, because it's going in the same sorry direction. I had gotten down to buying just one of their stupid monthly SW comics, and I'm canceling that and selling them all. I'm also divesting my personal collection of lots of their crap. They deserve the losses they are experiencing, and I hope it continues. I hope "Plan IX" as I call it, fails, I hope the theme park wings are converted to Aladdin-World, I hope upper-level jobs are lost; I hope more unsold product is returned and ends up shredded.

TLDR: 1)Thank you guys for being kindred spirits;
2) How do I list out all of the Disney fails to convince and horrify friends and family? There are so many, they can't see them.
3) Disney sucks and screw them.
 

Dr W

I have no mouth and I must scream
kiwifarms.net
I've been reading this forum for a while; I came in around page 500 (believe it or not from an internet search looking for the truth about Galaxy's Edge). I just wanted to say thank you to GeneralFriendliness for his reports and info, but also to everyone here who posts. It's made me so happy to know that I'm not alone in my sadness and horror for what Disney's done to Star Wars. Revulsion is a good word to describe my everyday feelings.

There was a list a few pages back of ST plot holes, and it was great. I was going to ask for, or start making myself, a list of travesties that have been done to the franchise by Disney. Specifically, a list of injustices to beloved characters, designs, and lore, as well as a list of SJW/homo-centric/agenda-pushing/Tumblr asinine ridiculousness that has been forced into the comics, books, and everywhere else. It strikes me that it may be too HUGE to compile, because it floods in DAILY. However, my point is, I need help in addressing my friends and family. They are so blinded in a deep haze, that they can't "see the forest for the trees," perhaps because as I said, there is just so much. Even real fans I know--for example, I tuned into the livestream for the last Celebration, like a fool. Some of the very same people who were jumping up and down and screaming against the atrocity that was Episode 8 the year before were IN the audience, jumping up and down and screaming for more Disney product. Worshipping at the feet of the Mouse. It made, and makes, me ill. I fully expect who you guys call "normies" to be dislocating their jaws with both hands, to allow the swallowing of more and more Disney garbage and more product to cram down their throats...but not the people who are supposed to be smarter than that!

I guess I was in the very same haze myself for a while. I take my kids to the Marvel movies because they like them, and because I grew up on the REAL stuff, the real Silver Age-goodness, and not Hollywood's poor facsimile. It was something we could do together, and then of course 2012 happened. I predicted Disney would go in the direction of nostalgia and be "safe" before veering off in their own direction, having long known what an evil company they were, and what they really stood for. (When I was a kid, Michael Eisner famously announced that "our Minnie Mouse has nipples.") And then Episode 7 and Rogue One happened. I was the dog in the comic strip, surrounded by flames, saying "This is fine."

And then Episode 8 happened.

I'd avoided all info and spoilers, and just went to the theater. After the first scene, I thought someone was playing a joke on me, from somewhere. And then, after several minutes of flat, awkward attempts at humor and WTF moments...my beloved Admiral Ackbar was sucked out of existence, and thrown away like an effing flushable wipe.

It became crystal clear to me, instantaneously. Why aliens & their designs were being replaced one at a time by inferior DOCTOR WHO rejects. Why beloved main characters were being killed off. Why classic designs of genius were being replaced by lackluster, unoriginal, well, Donut Steals. This wasn't a handing off of the reins, to build upon what had come before.....this was an assassination.

It did blow up in their greedy faces. It would be bad enough if mere bad writing and poor planning killed SW, but instead they have crammed it at every turn to overflowing with Bizarro World-politics and SJW agenda, and I'm done supporting it, and their Marvel (wait, I meant, "The Female Captain Marvel & her H-Grade heroes Saga) tripe too, because it's going in the same sorry direction. I had gotten down to buying just one of their stupid monthly SW comics, and I'm canceling that and selling them all. I'm also divesting my personal collection of lots of their crap. They deserve the losses they are experiencing, and I hope it continues. I hope "Plan IX" as I call it, fails, I hope the theme park wings are converted to Aladdin-World, I hope upper-level jobs are lost; I hope more unsold product is returned and ends up shredded.

TLDR: 1)Thank you guys for being kindred spirits;
2) How do I list out all of the Disney fails to convince and horrify friends and family? There are so many, they can't see them.
3) Disney sucks and screw them.
First things first, welcome to the Kiwi Farms, newcomer. Hope you'll stay a while.
Secondly, there's a dump of all leaks/spoilers on page 721, if you want to look over everything that TROS will be to horrify your friends and family. If you'll do that, though, remember NOT to mention this stuff unless they do first.
Thirdly, make sure to look up Geeks + Gamers, Disneystarwarsisdumb, Worldclassbullshitters, MauLer, E;R, Hackfraudmedia, OverlordDVD, and EVS (Comicsproartissecrets). These people have done a lot of work in criticizing this Disney shit and showing how rotten to the core this whole franchise is. (All of them except Disneystarwarsisdumb are on Youtube).
Fourth, this is a bit manipulative, but find what your friends and family love MOST about Star Wars, then point out how Disney hates/ruined it. Focus on the most important things and they'll get the message better.

If you want me to, I'll PM you my entire collection of screencapped ST spoilers/mockeries/predictions/memes, just send me a message and I'll oblige.

Anyway, long story short, good luck, feel free to ask questions, and welcome.
 

Kane Lives

Peace through power
kiwifarms.net
I've been reading this forum for a while; I came in around page 500 (believe it or not from an internet search looking for the truth about Galaxy's Edge). I just wanted to say thank you to GeneralFriendliness for his reports and info, but also to everyone here who posts. It's made me so happy to know that I'm not alone in my sadness and horror for what Disney's done to Star Wars. Revulsion is a good word to describe my everyday feelings.

There was a list a few pages back of ST plot holes, and it was great. I was going to ask for, or start making myself, a list of travesties that have been done to the franchise by Disney. Specifically, a list of injustices to beloved characters, designs, and lore, as well as a list of SJW/homo-centric/agenda-pushing/Tumblr asinine ridiculousness that has been forced into the comics, books, and everywhere else. It strikes me that it may be too HUGE to compile, because it floods in DAILY. However, my point is, I need help in addressing my friends and family. They are so blinded in a deep haze, that they can't "see the forest for the trees," perhaps because as I said, there is just so much. Even real fans I know--for example, I tuned into the livestream for the last Celebration, like a fool. Some of the very same people who were jumping up and down and screaming against the atrocity that was Episode 8 the year before were IN the audience, jumping up and down and screaming for more Disney product. Worshipping at the feet of the Mouse. It made, and makes, me ill. I fully expect who you guys call "normies" to be dislocating their jaws with both hands, to allow the swallowing of more and more Disney garbage and more product to cram down their throats...but not the people who are supposed to be smarter than that!

I guess I was in the very same haze myself for a while. I take my kids to the Marvel movies because they like them, and because I grew up on the REAL stuff, the real Silver Age-goodness, and not Hollywood's poor facsimile. It was something we could do together, and then of course 2012 happened. I predicted Disney would go in the direction of nostalgia and be "safe" before veering off in their own direction, having long known what an evil company they were, and what they really stood for. (When I was a kid, Michael Eisner famously announced that "our Minnie Mouse has nipples.") And then Episode 7 and Rogue One happened. I was the dog in the comic strip, surrounded by flames, saying "This is fine."

And then Episode 8 happened.

I'd avoided all info and spoilers, and just went to the theater. After the first scene, I thought someone was playing a joke on me, from somewhere. And then, after several minutes of flat, awkward attempts at humor and WTF moments...my beloved Admiral Ackbar was sucked out of existence, and thrown away like an effing flushable wipe.

It became crystal clear to me, instantaneously. Why aliens & their designs were being replaced one at a time by inferior DOCTOR WHO rejects. Why beloved main characters were being killed off. Why classic designs of genius were being replaced by lackluster, unoriginal, well, Donut Steals. This wasn't a handing off of the reins, to build upon what had come before.....this was an assassination.

It did blow up in their greedy faces. It would be bad enough if mere bad writing and poor planning killed SW, but instead they have crammed it at every turn to overflowing with Bizarro World-politics and SJW agenda, and I'm done supporting it, and their Marvel (wait, I meant, "The Female Captain Marvel & her H-Grade heroes Saga) tripe too, because it's going in the same sorry direction. I had gotten down to buying just one of their stupid monthly SW comics, and I'm canceling that and selling them all. I'm also divesting my personal collection of lots of their crap. They deserve the losses they are experiencing, and I hope it continues. I hope "Plan IX" as I call it, fails, I hope the theme park wings are converted to Aladdin-World, I hope upper-level jobs are lost; I hope more unsold product is returned and ends up shredded.

TLDR: 1)Thank you guys for being kindred spirits;
2) How do I list out all of the Disney fails to convince and horrify friends and family? There are so many, they can't see them.
3) Disney sucks and screw them.
I attended the midnight screening for Episode 7, when it first came out. The first movie I done so in years. And I walked out of the cinema very much bemused. To be honest, I felt like I was insulted. I expected a safe movie, but not full on memberberries and tard logic and worldbuilding right out of JJ's mystery box ass.

Yeah, I saw the signs right there. Feels hollow to be proven right, but hey, I got a chuckle out of one of my normiefag friends who desperately tried to justify how TLJ was good before finally quietly admitting a few months later it was probably bad. Not even the Rat can keep its shit from stinking, and I hope TROS bombs hard just to prove a point. NuWars is dead anyway.
 

neverendingmidi

it just goes on and on and on and on...
kiwifarms.net
I attended the midnight screening for Episode 7, when it first came out. The first movie I done so in years. And I walked out of the cinema very much bemused. To be honest, I felt like I was insulted. I expected a safe movie, but not full on memberberries and tard logic and worldbuilding right out of JJ's mystery box ass.

Yeah, I saw the signs right there. Feels hollow to be proven right, but hey, I got a chuckle out of one of my normiefag friends who desperately tried to justify how TLJ was good before finally quietly admitting a few months later it was probably bad. Not even the Rat can keep its shit from stinking, and I hope TROS bombs hard just to prove a point. NuWars is dead anyway.
TFA was the equivalent of seeing a roughed out piece of marble surrounded by scaffolding. Maybe you see some flaws in the stone, but a skilled artist could create something despite those flaws.

TLJ was the equivalent of wrapping that block in det cord and setting it off. There is no block at the end, just crumbled bits here and there. The scaffolding is gone. The earlier flaws barely matter because everything is destroyed. There is nothing the artist following you can do.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

May contain nuts.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Since @Judge Holden already brought it up, I may as well discuss it. The Resistance Reborn book is another shitty attempt by Disney to "fix" TLJ and IX by not just removing the FinnxRose romance for the Chinese (while also probably setting up the rumored FinnxPoe pandering for IX) but also explaining how the Resistance magically rebuilt itself thanks to "Hope™" and how the characters are totally friends and Leia and 3PO love them to bits. The book itself is stated to be "the most important" nu-novel in SW and "absolutely essential" for IX since it will explain a lot of plot holes in IX and TLJ regarding the Resistance, the characters and new arrivals, much like the shitty new Resistance Marvel comics that are the only ones that explain where the fuck the Ackbar Donut Steal came from.
Hey, remember when you'd go and watch a trilogy and the first movie would set up the plot, places and characters, the second movie would expand on that world, escalate the conflict and then the third movie would conclude everything and bring it to a close?
Yeah, I miss those times, too.

Now, we have a first act that doesn't set up the setting, a middle act that ends the plot (without really concluding it) and then a third act, that tries to be a second act, while also negating the second movie and then somehow tries to be an end to both second acts, one of which already aborted everything...
...and to figure out anything (and I mean a n y t h i n g ), you have to buy a shitton of poorly written novels full of fart jokes or atrociously drawn comic books full of traced people?

This article is hilarious. Leia had to be the star huh? Shouldn't have been so quick to kill off Han and Luke. Now you have no one 😒

This is an abhorrent idea. The obvious "YAS QUEEEEEEEEEN SLAY" bullshit aside and how this also fucks over Luke, who would have taken a look at Carrie Fisher and thought to himself "Yeah, this gal is going to kick ass as the Uber Jedi of this trilogy"?

And just for shits n giggles, what is the big idea behind all this? To take away Luke's fame and give it to Leia... why? Just to fulfill the "Force is Female" bullshit and to retcon Luke away? I really don't fucking understand this.

Plus even if you grant the premise that she doesn’t have to tell him, the movie does not treat this as if it were a mistake, despite the fact that it had catastrophic consequences that played out right on screen.

It treats her like she knew what she was doing to whole time, even as she’s in the process of fucking everything up and leading them into an inescapeable trap.
It's surreal. The evidence that Holdo is a shitty Admiral is right there in the movie:
Her incompetence leads to a mutiny. The mutineers aren't some rash asshole mansplainers that itch for a fight, they are a bunch of soldiers D E S P E R A T E to save their friends! Poe begs Holdo to tell her that they have a plan. He doesn't even demand to hear the plan, just that she tells him that there *IS* a plan. Her reaction? Some platitude about hope being like the sun.

That is what makes this movie, even by its own rules, illogical. The characters tell you that Poe was wrong all along and that Holdo did everything right, but she is an uppity bitch towards Poe for no reason - mind you, Holdo says to Leia that she really likes Poe! So why doesn't she tell him? She has no reason not to. The movie doesn't give her one and the fanfiction that TLJ-fanboys have given range always are completely nonsensical. "She didn't know whether she could trust Poe" -> She likes him. She trusts him. There is no - absolutely NO! - reason not to trust him.

The people in the movie insist that Poe made a mistake, but you can point at the movie and say: This is why Poe was right. This is why Poe was right all along in everything he did. This is why he was justified.

Which brings me to my next point. Hoooo. Boy:
Poe made a massive tactical mistake, BUT he still commands the fighter wing.

Even a line saying "We have reason to believe our internal communications have been compromised. So General Organa kept this plan down to a small number of people. I am the only one who is still alive other then her. I need you to trust me"

but then the movie wouldnt happen
Poe made a "Massive Mistake" the movie said so
Poe Disagreed and the movie says poe was wrong for doing so
I said the MOVIE said they werent [even though that didnt make sense] and you need to judge the movies internal logic by the standard it sets for itself to be able to suss out the deeper meanings of the story and narrative
The people in the movie (ie: Leia and Holdo) say he made a massive mistake. But as has been said, the movie depicts the exact opposite.
Poe was ordered to withdraw from the First Order, but he didn't, thus he destroyed the dreadnaught but lost a couple of his fighters and their (nice looking but ultimately utterly worthless) bombers.

Here's the fucking thing: I just watched that battle, watched it in Slow-Mo and counted every on-screen explosion of a fighter.
Since it's a flashy battle, I figured I would get a decent headcount with the Resistance losing a couple A- and X-Wings alongside their bombers but what I actually saw once I slowed down the footage actually makes me speechless:

On screen, the Resistance loses exactly 2 X-Wings and their 8 Bombers.
According to the Wookiepedia, the Resistance losses are higher though.
They lost 3 X-Wings, one A-Wing and their 8 bombers.
The A- and X-Wings are piloted by one guy each, the bombers are manned by a crew of 4. A total of 35 pilots lost.

What did the First Order lose in turn?
On screen, at least 12 TIE fighters are destroyed. And, y'know... the First Order also loses their 7.7km long Dreadnaught, manned by a crew of more than 210.000 people.
Two. Hundred. And ten. Fucking. Thousand. People.

howisthisfailure.png


By what metric is this anything but an utterly, ridiculously, cartoonishly, mind-blowingly CRUSHING victory for the Resistance at an absolutely insanely low cost?
The "movie" doesn't say Poe made a massive mistake. It's Leia and Holdo that did.
And they are wrong. They are wrong to such an insane degree, that it defies all logic. We would need to invent some non-euclidean, 5 dimensional hypercube quantum-logic to just comprehend this line of thinking and then it would still be completely wrong.

The movie is saying "Poe is a goddamned hero for bringing down that massive threat" - and that is even before the Resistance is tracked by Snoke's HMS Asspull Supremacy. If the Dreadnaught had been around back then, it would have grilled the last few Resistance ships within a minute.
If the Dreadnaught had been present at Not!Hoth, it would have obliterated the Resistance base within a minute.

So thank fuck Poe did the right thing and achieved a massive, crushing, stunning, incomprehensibly cheap tactical victory for his side. Or else they'd be fucked.
Similarly, when your supposed leader does everything in her power to make you believe that she has absolutely no clue, no plan and is utterly incompetent and outright hostile, when your own survival and that of your friends is at stake, you need to take the helm - by force if necessary - to try and save as many as you can.
Poe was given absolutely every reason to believe that Holdo was incompetent, had no plan and was going to get them all killed. So any plan was better than what Holdo was doing.
Poe was justified in trying to take the helm and save his friends and his plan might have worked if Finn and Rose hadn't been too fucking dumb to get a propper parking spot, too.

Another fun bit: When Poe wakes up in the shuttle craft and learns about Holdo's plan, he likes the plan and says that it could work.
Here's the thing: That is illogical in and of itself.
1) There is no way the First Order does not know about the former rebell base on Not!Hoth. So they should have checked it out, no matter what would happen with the Raddus.
2) There is no way the First Order would not have seen the fucking Shuttlecraft. They are visible from Snoke's knock-off throne room by the naked fucking eye. So escaping unnoticed is utterly impossible - yet the movie pretends that it is.
3) Any signal strong enough to reach the Resistance's allies should have also told the First Order where they are.
4) In stark contrast to Hoth, Not!Hoth had no shield emitter, thus hiding there was suicidal from the get-go. It being a deadend for their forces notwithstanding. They had no capacity to evacuate and no matter what allies would show up, they'd take way too long to help.

Going to Not!Hoth was a shitty plan, no matter what Leia or Poe say. Full stop.

And since we're at it:
If anything, Poe should have been demoted or incarcerated for committing a war crime by pretending to initiate diplomatic talks with Hux while preparing an attack.
Leia should have been demoted for slapping Poe and send to jail. No, I am not kidding. That's what armies do with their Generals if they lay hands on their soldiers. It happened to Patton during WW2.

Something I never saw anyone bring up:
Before the space battle with the shitty bombers starts, a female A-Wing pilot is seen ordering said bombers to "keep a tight formation". Given that at least 2 get destroyed by a chain reaction after one explodes, she's to blame in large part for the bombers failure.
This movie has a very strong theme of women giving orders that are absolutely dim-witted and counterproductive. :story:
The last remaining bomber takes a hit in the cockpit, which kills the Pilot, this explosion knocks Rose's sister down the stairs. How in the fuck is she still alive? The cockpit is completely gone and the whole bomber should be filled with nothing but a hard vacuum and the floating, shock-frosted body of a hot asian chick.


The Narrative and story has a set of logical. It doesnt WORK but the narrative has a internal logic. It breaks plot, stories, characters, and the universe to make its logic seem to work
What does that even mean?
You can't argue that the movie sets up rules according to which Poe made a "massive tactical mistake" and then argue that there are no such rules, since the logic is not working.

further [Leia blaming Poe for something beyond his control, and the movie wanting poe to be viewed as wrong] Ties in with Rian's theme about how the Military Industrial Complex is the real villian [Not the dark side] and how the Military Industrial complex manipulates both sides of the war. Poe was wrong for participating in a rigged game.
and
The only way to break out of the rigged game is a disruptive strategy [by holdo]. And done by Rose and Poe on the planet when they realized the way out is to not play the game and break it
Rei realized that by breaking the Light saber.
You're pulling this straight from your own ass, don't you?
This is easily one of the dumbest things I've read in a very long time. No offense, just an observation.

Holdo is trying to break the MCI bullshit subplot by being an uppity bitch. Sure.

So apparently Iger announced that the movies will go on hiatus, meaning there’s no movies for 2022.

This is amusing that it comes right before TROS.
I really hope this is true. it would be the biggest admission of defeat we could wish for.

In another fun story, TROS toys are already on clearance sale.

What is this I don't even.

because whatever you might think about the last isekai or harem rehash, for the most part it comes from a single author or mangaka who just wants to do a good story and isn't trying to sell a product to 20 different cultures with different values to maximize profits.
Well, they still try to pander to a market in many cases, that's why we get so many moeblob isekai rehashes... but you know what?
More power to these authors. They look at an audience and give that audience what it wants. They don't try to shoehorn stupid bullshit into it, just to spite their core customer base for stupid, petty reasons.

Was it MauLer or HFM or E;R, which one of those pointed out that you can string together any sequence of events in this movie, any sequence of lines, and demonstrate that it's what the movie's about, since it's so vapidly devoid of any actual theme. Just as Rey is devoid of character and must be projected upon to become compelling to the audience, so to is the plot void of character, and it too must be projected upon to become compelling to the audience.
Mauler. He used the term "Resurrection"-

Holy balls. I looked them up, and yup, totally real. That is legitimately shocking. Star Wars under Lucas prided itself on its artistry. What the fuck happened to Ralph McQuarrie?

The fact that Rian Johnson turned in those storyboards and wasn't fired on the spot tells you everything you need to know about Disney Star Wars.
My brain hurts. This has to be a ruse. Tell me this is a ruse. ffs.
 

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
The people in the movie (ie: Leia and Holdo) say he made a massive mistake. But as has been said, the movie depicts the exact opposite.
Poe was ordered to withdraw from the First Order, but he didn't, thus he destroyed the dreadnaught but lost a couple of his fighters and their (nice looking but ultimately utterly worthless) bombers.
Also [Via tone] the movie wants you to agree with Leia and Holdo, and [Again via tone] Poe eventually accepts he made a mistake. even though cognitively that dont make no sense

What did the First Order lose in turn?
On screen, at least 12 TIE fighters are destroyed. And, y'know... the First Order also loses their 7.7km long Dreadnaught, manned by a crew of more than 210.000 people.
Two. Hundred. And ten. Fucking. Thousand. People.

View attachment 1002203

By what metric is this anything but an utterly, ridiculously, cartoonishly, mind-blowingly CRUSHING victory for the Resistance at an absolutely insanely low cost?
The "movie" doesn't say Poe made a massive mistake. It's Leia and Holdo that did.
And they are wrong. They are wrong to such an insane degree, that it defies all logic. We would need to invent some non-euclidean, 5 dimensional hypercube quantum-logic to just comprehend this line of thinking and then it would still be completely wrong.
As hard as it is: Rewatch it again. Listen to the music, look at the shot and lighting choices. "In the language of cinema" the movie wants you to agree that Poe was Wrong [as he eventually does] and Leia and Holdo were right.
The movie is saying "Poe is a goddamned hero for bringing down that massive threat" - and that is even before the Resistance is tracked by Snoke's HMS Asspull Supremacy. If the Dreadnaught had been around back then, it would have grilled the last few Resistance ships within a minute.
If the Dreadnaught had been present at Not!Hoth, it would have obliterated the Resistance base within a minute.
"Within the logic of how space military works in Star Wars movies" yes
So thank fuck Poe did the right thing and achieved a massive, crushing, stunning, incomprehensibly cheap tactical victory for his side. Or else they'd be fucked.
Except the movie is about how all war [and Political oppression] in the Galaxy is not about a giant conflict between the Light and Dark Side of the force BUT is a conflict from the hyper rich [income inequality] and the Military industrial complex. So [Within the Narrative Logic the Round head gave us] all the Military action on screen is SUBVERSIVE because Space Wizards and noble resistance fighters [and space nazis] are all pawns of evil corporations.
Similarly, when your supposed leader does everything in her power to make you believe that she has absolutely no clue, no plan and is utterly incompetent and outright hostile, when your own survival and that of your friends is at stake, you need to take the helm - by force if necessary - to try and save as many as you can.
Poe was given absolutely every reason to believe that Holdo was incompetent, had no plan and was going to get them all killed. So any plan was better than what Holdo was doing.
Poe was justified in trying to take the helm and save his friends and his plan might have worked if Finn and Rose hadn't been too fucking dumb to get a propper parking spot, too.
He ABSOLUTELY was. And the movie [By tone] was telling you he was absolutely wrong [as well as being absolutely justified]
.
1) There is no way the First Order does not know about the former rebell base on Not!Hoth. So they should have checked it out, no matter what would happen with the Raddus.
except in the expanded disney novels they said they knew about it

which means it doesnt count

2) There is no way the First Order would not have seen the fucking Shuttlecraft. They are visible from Snoke's knock-off throne room by the naked fucking eye. So escaping unnoticed is utterly impossible - yet the movie pretends that it is.
3) Any signal strong enough to reach the Resistance's allies should have also told the First Order where they are.
4) In stark contrast to Hoth, Not!Hoth had no shield emitter, thus hiding there was suicidal from the get-go. It being a deadend for their forces notwithstanding. They had no capacity to evacuate and no matter what allies would show up, they'd take way too long to help.

Going to Not!Hoth was a shitty plan, no matter what Leia or Poe say. Full stop.
Leia and Holdo believed no one remembered it

What does that even mean?
You can't argue that the movie sets up rules according to which Poe made a "massive tactical mistake" and then argue that there are no such rules, since the logic is not working.
Rian's movies are [Typically] driven by theme and tone and not plot or characters


Holdo is trying to break the MCI bullshit subplot by being an uppity bitch. Sure.
I am only translating what Rian did
 

BrunoMattei

Vincent Dawn
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I've been reading this forum for a while; I came in around page 500 (believe it or not from an internet search looking for the truth about Galaxy's Edge). I just wanted to say thank you to GeneralFriendliness for his reports and info, but also to everyone here who posts. It's made me so happy to know that I'm not alone in my sadness and horror for what Disney's done to Star Wars. Revulsion is a good word to describe my everyday feelings.

There was a list a few pages back of ST plot holes, and it was great. I was going to ask for, or start making myself, a list of travesties that have been done to the franchise by Disney. Specifically, a list of injustices to beloved characters, designs, and lore, as well as a list of SJW/homo-centric/agenda-pushing/Tumblr asinine ridiculousness that has been forced into the comics, books, and everywhere else. It strikes me that it may be too HUGE to compile, because it floods in DAILY. However, my point is, I need help in addressing my friends and family. They are so blinded in a deep haze, that they can't "see the forest for the trees," perhaps because as I said, there is just so much. Even real fans I know--for example, I tuned into the livestream for the last Celebration, like a fool. Some of the very same people who were jumping up and down and screaming against the atrocity that was Episode 8 the year before were IN the audience, jumping up and down and screaming for more Disney product. Worshipping at the feet of the Mouse. It made, and makes, me ill. I fully expect who you guys call "normies" to be dislocating their jaws with both hands, to allow the swallowing of more and more Disney garbage and more product to cram down their throats...but not the people who are supposed to be smarter than that!

I guess I was in the very same haze myself for a while. I take my kids to the Marvel movies because they like them, and because I grew up on the REAL stuff, the real Silver Age-goodness, and not Hollywood's poor facsimile. It was something we could do together, and then of course 2012 happened. I predicted Disney would go in the direction of nostalgia and be "safe" before veering off in their own direction, having long known what an evil company they were, and what they really stood for. (When I was a kid, Michael Eisner famously announced that "our Minnie Mouse has nipples.") And then Episode 7 and Rogue One happened. I was the dog in the comic strip, surrounded by flames, saying "This is fine."

And then Episode 8 happened.

I'd avoided all info and spoilers, and just went to the theater. After the first scene, I thought someone was playing a joke on me, from somewhere. And then, after several minutes of flat, awkward attempts at humor and WTF moments...my beloved Admiral Ackbar was sucked out of existence, and thrown away like an effing flushable wipe.

It became crystal clear to me, instantaneously. Why aliens & their designs were being replaced one at a time by inferior DOCTOR WHO rejects. Why beloved main characters were being killed off. Why classic designs of genius were being replaced by lackluster, unoriginal, well, Donut Steals. This wasn't a handing off of the reins, to build upon what had come before.....this was an assassination.

It did blow up in their greedy faces. It would be bad enough if mere bad writing and poor planning killed SW, but instead they have crammed it at every turn to overflowing with Bizarro World-politics and SJW agenda, and I'm done supporting it, and their Marvel (wait, I meant, "The Female Captain Marvel & her H-Grade heroes Saga) tripe too, because it's going in the same sorry direction. I had gotten down to buying just one of their stupid monthly SW comics, and I'm canceling that and selling them all. I'm also divesting my personal collection of lots of their crap. They deserve the losses they are experiencing, and I hope it continues. I hope "Plan IX" as I call it, fails, I hope the theme park wings are converted to Aladdin-World, I hope upper-level jobs are lost; I hope more unsold product is returned and ends up shredded.

TLDR: 1)Thank you guys for being kindred spirits;
2) How do I list out all of the Disney fails to convince and horrify friends and family? There are so many, they can't see them.
3) Disney sucks and screw them.
Plan 9. I like that.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

May contain nuts.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Some more rumors straight from the Overlords mouth:

According to him, the reshoots might have cost 300 million dollars, that can't be true.
But if the budget is ballooning out of control, I could imagine that being the reason they shitcan all further Star Wars movie plans.
Also... a surprise Skywalker popping out of nowhere... that would be amazing, if it was some asshole that suddenly outshone Rey at the last minute.

As hard as it is: Rewatch it again. Listen to the music, look at the shot and lighting choices. "In the language of cinema" the movie wants you to agree that Poe was Wrong [as he eventually does] and Leia and Holdo were right.
Yeah. And then you add in your own capacity for rational thought, disregard the nonsense that the movie is trying to peddle and you will see:

Poe lost an absolutely irrelevant number of fighters, an absolutely irrelevant number of bombers and achieved an absolutely amazing victory.
The characters are lying when they say Poe made a tactical failure. Whether the music score underlines the characters attitude is irrelevant when we see a giant fucking spaceship blow up thanks to Poe's decision. I'm not talking about a mood that is set up by light or sound, I am talking about hard, cold facts.

You don't even have to look up the number of crew on the Dreadnaught, you can tell the Bridge Crew alone outnumbers the losses of the Resistance.
That is the whole fucking issue. Any actual info the movie gives us is this:
Poe did nothing wrong.

"Within the logic of how space military works in Star Wars movies" yes
Within the capabilities depicted in the movie itself. I don't see why you feel a need to abstract it down as if that somehow changed anything about this.

Except the movie is about how all war [and Political oppression] in the Galaxy is not about a giant conflict between the Light and Dark Side of the force BUT is a conflict from the hyper rich [income inequality] and the Military industrial complex. So [Within the Narrative Logic the Round head gave us] all the Military action on screen is SUBVERSIVE because Space Wizards and noble resistance fighters [and space nazis] are all pawns of evil corporations.
And how does that take away from Poe's achievement?

Supposedly, this movie is about how the MCI keeps the conflict going to sell their stuff. If that is the case (it being an absolutely moronic idea aside), the movie is not being successful with that. Mauler went into detail about it, you might wanna check out his video.
Essentially, the Star Wars MCI really dropped the ball with "keeping the war running" when Palpatine ruled for a couple decades and the war was essentially stalled.
And again, when the New Republic ruled, and war was stalled to such a monumentous degree that the New Republic abolished their own military.
What were they doing before the Clone Wars, anyway? Canonically, that was a period of 1000 years of peace.
Gee.
:thinking:

The movie really isn't about the MCI keeping the war running, that is not what is happening in Canto Bight and it is nothing that has ever applied to Star Wars in any way. The scenes in Canto Bight show weapon-makers profiteering from the war... To my knowledge, the movie does not say what influence they have on the war outside of being assholes that sell their stuff to both sides whenever they can. The point that DJ is making is some dollar-store platitude about how good and evil are just words and the truth is that assholes play both sides to make money and that also sets up his own arc of being an asshole that plays both sides to make money (well, unless you realize he was willing to work for the Resistance for free so fuck if I know what DJ's up to).

Also, your point is -and I say this with all due respect to you as a person- horrendeously moronic. So what is the big choice the protaginists have?
Just let themselves get killed so they don't perpetuate this MCI-driven conflict (that somehow stopped for several decades at a time and most recently lead to one major side scrapping 90% of their army)?

You are reading a lot into Ruin's silly "RICH PEOPLE BAD - ALSO BUY OUR MERCH, YOU FILTHY PEASANTS!" schlock.
This whole profiteering and anti-capitalism nonsense is just added to the plot so Ruin can gather some faux-commie brownie-points with his fellow rich Hollywood elites.
It is poorly written, ties not at all into the general plot of this entire franchise and distracts from the actual plot of the movie, which incidentally IS about evil fighting good. That is what TFA is all about, it is what IX will be all about and TLJ's failed attempt at shoehorning in this monumentally stupid baggage is never going to be adressed ever again in the movies.

except in the expanded disney novels they said they knew about it

which means it doesnt count
That is exactly my point.

The First Order should be aware of that base. Them not being aware of that base is idiotic and makes no sense whatsoever.

Leia and Holdo believed no one remembered it
Which is highly illogical. Assuming that no one remembers that base as well as apparently no one from the FO remembering that base makes no sense.
Neither should Leia assume that that base has been forgotten, nor should it actually be forgotten.
As I said, the plan to go there is shit and hinges on absolutely illogical assumptions.
If anything, the First Order should have prepared to blow up that base, just as a matter of principle and on the off chance, that there's still someone there.

Rian's movies are [Typically] driven by theme and tone and not plot or characters
Can you, for the love of fuck, stop typing with these parantheses and quotation marks? It makes you look like @Cowlick.
 
Last edited:

Godzilla@1989

DESTROY US ALL!
kiwifarms.net
Some more rumors straight from the Overlords mouth:

According to him, the reshoots might have cost 300 million dollars, that can't be true.
But if the budget is ballooning out of control, I could imagine that being the reason they shitcan all further Star Wars movie plans.
Also... a surprise Skywalker popping out of nowhere... that would be amazing, if it was some asshole that suddenly outshone Rey at the last minute.


Yeah. And then you add in your own capacity for rational thought, disregard the nonsense that the movie is trying to peddle and you will see:

Poe lost an absolutely irrelevant number of fighters, an absolutely irrelevant number of bombers and achieved an absolutely amazing victory.
The characters are lying when they say Poe made a tactical failure. Whether the music score underlines the characters attitude is irrelevant when we see a giant fucking spaceship blow up thanks to Poe's decision. I'm not talking about a mood that is set up by light or sound, I am talking about hard, cold facts.

You don't even have to look up the number of crew on the Dreadnaught, you can tell the Bridge Crew alone outnumbers the losses of the Resistance.
That is the whole fucking issue. Any actual info the movie gives us is this:
Poe did nothing wrong.


Within the capabilities depicted in the movie itself. I don't see why you feel a need to abstract it down as if that somehow changed anything about this.


And how does that take away from Poe's achievement?

Supposedly, this movie is about how the MCI keeps the conflict going to sell their stuff. If that is the case (it being an absolutely moronic idea aside), the movie is not being successful with that. Mauler went into detail about it, you might wanna check out his video.
Essentially, the Star Wars MCI really dropped the ball with "keeping the war running" when Palpatine ruled for a couple decades and the war was essentially stalled.
And again, when the New Republic ruled, and war was stalled to such a monumentous degree that the New Republic abolished their own military.
What were they doing before the Clone Wars, anyway? Canonically, that was a period of 1000 years of peace.
Gee.
:thinking:

The movie really isn't about the MCI keeping the war running, that is not what is happening in Canto Bight and it is nothing that has ever applied to Star Wars in any way. The scenes in Canto Bight show weapon-makers profiteering from the war... To my knowledge, the movie does not say what influence they have on the war outside of being assholes that sell their stuff to both sides whenever they can. The point that DJ is making is some dollar-store platitude about how good and evil are just words and the truth is that assholes play both sides to make money and that also sets up his own arc of being an asshole that plays both sides to make money (well, unless you realize he was willing to work for the Resistance for free so fuck if I know what DJ's up to).

Also, your point is -and I say this with all due respect to you as a person- horrendeously moronic. So what is the big choice the protaginists have?
Just let themselves get killed so they don't perpetuate this MCI-driven conflict (that somehow stopped for several decades at a time and most recently lead to one major side scrapping 90% of their army)?

You are reading a lot into Ruin's silly "RICH PEOPLE BAD - ALSO BUY OUR MERCH, YOU FILTHY PEASANTS!" schlock.
This whole profiteering and anti-capitalism nonsense is just added to the plot so Ruin can gather some faux-commie brownie-points with his fellow rich Hollywood elites.
It is poorly written, ties not at all into the general plot of this entire franchise and distracts from the actual plot of the movie, which incidentally IS about evil fighting good. That is what TFA is all about, it is what IX will be all about and TLJ's failed attempt at shoehorning in this monumentally stupid baggage is never going to be adressed ever again in the movies.


That is exactly my point.

The First Order should be aware of that base. Them not being aware of that base is idiotic and makes no sense whatsoever.


Which is highly illogical. Assuming that no one remembers that base as well as apparently no one from the FO remembering that base makes no sense.
Neither should Leia assume that that base has been forgotten, nor should it actually be forgotten.
As I said, the plan to go there is shit and hinges on absolutely illogical assumptions.
If anything, the First Order should have prepared to blow up that base, just as a matter of principle and on the off chance, that there's still someone there.


Can you, for the love of fuck, stop typing with these parantheses and quotation marks? It makes you look like @Cowlick.
Has the test screenings been negative?
 
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