Star Wars Griefing Thread (RISE OF THE SKYWALKER SPOILERS) - Safety off

  • Apologies for the site issues. The server's shipment was delayed. I'll ask again about it and if they can't provide it I'll source another.

BScCollateral

kiwifarms.net
I read something surprising today, a Disney theme park blogger who I've followed for years and generally trust the opinions of pretty well finally stated some thoughts on Galaxy's Edge and.... they liked it?
...
I've noticed that when something gets terrible word of mouth there's a tendency for some people to respond with, "Well ... it wasn't that bad."

I don't think it's necessarily being contrarian; I think that when your expectations are at rock-bottom you can't help but be pleasantly surprised.
 

The handsome tard

Hyperion is working on the cure, it wont be cheap.
kiwifarms.net
Remember this, people.

This all started with them saying "This will fix things", as to already claim superiority over the prequels (and maybe even the originals).

It all ended with them desperedly trying to reference those same prequels in a futile attempt at getting back some of the fans they casted out for not enjoying their trash woke writing.

Truly pathetic.
 

Miller

You're gonna extract HIM?!
kiwifarms.net
According to Hidalgo and the IX tie-in novels, these horned assholes are now super common across the galaxy and many joined up with the Resistance despite that we only see one in IX, although these horned fucks are in every Disney Wars movie and are essentially toyetic donut steal versions of the Iktotchi. One on the left is the Ovalwhatevers from Disney shit and the one on the right is the Iktotchi.
There's an ovissian (?) in the EA Battlefront 2 game, I thought he was a guy but despite the voice I've learned that it's a female.
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Except that in that case it’s not about Caedus, Jaina acts like fighting someone who can become undetectable in the Force and has lightsaber resistant armour is totally new to her. It’s not. And if she wanted Caedus fighting lessons, Fett isn’t someone she should be considering, given how he loses his fights with Force wielders.
Yeah, that was absurd. She had fought Yuuzhan Vong before then, who were completely undetectable in the Force and immune to Force powers, and Voxyn, widely considered the greatest Jedi hunters in the galaxy. That entire sequence was a result of terrible plotting, though, as it was incredibly contrived that Jaina had to be the one to kill Caedus, just for dramatic irony and call backs to NJO. Jaina was good at a number of things, from piloting to mechanical repair, but by that point Caedus was the superior duelist, Force user, and tactician, far and away. How they ended up doing it was okay; Caedus had his arm lopped off, legs torn to shreds, and completely surrendered by the time she was able to beat him, but there were far more interesting ways he could have been taken down than a contrived twin fight and that entire subplot never needed to happen if they hadn't made Caedus an OP Anakin clone and instead have made him a tactical esoteric Force user. I always wanted him to have been arrested and tried, it would have been much more unique.
 
Last edited:

God of Nothing

kiwifarms.net
The Yuuzhan Vong were always stupid and out there even for Star Wars, change my mind.
At best, they were a brief reprieve from the horde of Not!Thrawns that spawned from Thrawn being an original villain who got by on intelligence rather than UNLIMITED POWA! At worst, they are everything that they were: torture porn aliens straight out of someone's shitty smut fanfiction complete with the ability to resist the Force for no believable reason.
 

Cyril Sneer

Destroy All Lesbians
kiwifarms.net
Is this thread slowly turning into a Karen Traviss slapfight? What has she done too piss so many people off?
It's complicated. I think part of the problem is that her SW books are written with a very tight subjective third-person narrative, and some readers mistake the limited perspective of a given character and how they're reacting to events and characters around them with a more conventional omniscient narrative voice, which can cause a certain amount of confusion as well as amplify the negativity that many of the characters direct at the Jedi Order. Another part is that, to this day, it completely flies over many peoples' heads that the Jedi Order is not really an admirable force for good in the era that her signature Republic Commando series takes place in, but rather a seriously corrupt and increasingly ineffective, out-of-touch shadow of what it was supposed to be, to the point where even seemingly-amoral mercenaries can find themselves disgusted.

Having read her Clone stuff, her books are an absolute landmine of combined good and terrible.

On the one hand, she writes really good war and realistic battles and tactics, and has a sense of suspense and pathos. She does world building, and is good at giving characters both emotional and strategic goals. She's good at writing band of brothers stuff.

On the other hand, she tends to demonize and/or sanctify certain groups that the canon outside of her don't treat the same way. Her Jedi are cold and dogmatic, and everyone in the book gets off on criticizing them. Though she tends to write individual Jedi sympathetically.
Jedi being cold and dogmatic and increasingly unpopular with many people in-universe is in-line with Lucas's overall themes in the PT, though. Traviss tends to build on that, with, for example, several otherwise-neutral Mandalorian and Clone Commando characters bearing some lingering dislike of the Jedi as a whole for the deployment on Geonosis, which, Traviss, not unreasonably, presents as a bit of a clusterfuck, since (in the film) it began with the Jedi pompously marching into a deathtrap in the Geonosian arena and concluded with clones being thrown against the CIS armies over open terrain Napoleonic-style. Another lingering beef throughout her books is the whole issue of the Jedi Order accepting responsibility for and command over what is essentially an army composed of child-slaves, ostensibly for the good of the Republic, when their espoused code of ethics should have had them refuse to participate in the war (and in fact, she does have then fan-favourite Jedi Master K'Kruhk stating as much in Order 66).

Her vision of the Mandos gives them tons and tons and tons of OP traits that push them over the edge into 'Gary Stu Nation'. They're gruff, but tender. Tough, smarter than everyone around them, open minded in all the pandering ways, they're not uptight, they honor tradition and family, they adopt kids at the drop of a hat. Etc, Etc, Etc. The Mandalorian show used some of what she built, but pared it waaaay down.
That's more or less backwards, I think. The TV Mandos really have shown no negative traits at all, save perhaps their ostensible professional devotion to not asking questions about the nature of the bounties they're assigned to hunt (even the previously-brutal and opportunistic Death Watch have been shown in an entirely positive light so far). This is in contrast with Traviss's books, where, for example, the Kal Skirata character, who acts as a surrogate father to many of the clone characters, is presented much more ambiguously, with Skirata himself acknowledging that he's basically a straight-up criminal in many ways, and many of the characters, (including Skirata himself from time to time) questioning whether his influence over the other characters isn't more harmful than helpful, as well as describing him as a rat, a thief, a thug and so on and so forth.

She gives way too many characters similar sympathetic traits, like fatherliness, or childlike cravings for love.
Which isn't really out of place, when your major storyline largely revolves around young, misfit Jedi and Clone Troopers.

She turns her main character, Skirata, into an Oscar Schindler of clone troopers capable of saving almost everyone who matters in the story.
I suppose that that's not an inapt comparison, since the real-life Schindler was an ambiguous, complicated man and hardly a plaster saint.

She is terrible at romance. George Lucas Prequel level. She pairs off characters at random with no build up and with no indication of what makes any relationship work or special. They just 'like' each other, and so hook up.
Now that's simply not true. There's no romantic content in any of Traviss's SW books that approaches the cringe-inducing awkwardness of many of Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman's scenes in AOTC.

But her absolutely unforgivable sin, in my opinion, is that her writing is REPETITIVE AS F**K. Multiple characters come to the same realizations, or spout the same bit of characterization, or make the same observations over and over and over again. It's the reason everything with her comes across so heavy handed. Because she says it a hundred hundred hundred times.
Again, I don't think that repetitiveness is out of place, because she's mainly writing about three different groups of people (Clones, Jedi, Mandalorians) who all are intensely socialized to share very uniformic attitudes, while all being subject to similar stresses and pressure as the Clone Wars drag on.

Traviss as a whole did have some good ideas, her problem was her insufferable favoritism and repetitiveness. If she had put in as much effort in making languages, cultures, etc for all the other factions and species in the galaxy, that would've been appreciated, but most of the time it was just mando wank that she stuck with.
I can't really fault an author for writing about what interests her, rather than expending time and energy writing about what doesn't in the name of fairness. I was just there for the Mandalorian content, though. It was a very heady time for a young Fett/Mando fan, to suddenly be gifted with a popular new author enthusiastically churning out huge amounts of material on your favourite faction's heretofore-unmentioned language, culture, customs and all the rest.

The drama surrounding Traviss has always been a double edged sword as far back as Mandoshit began. You would either have her getting assmad over petty bullshit or her critics getting just as assmad to the point of sending her threats or making Machinimas about attacking her.
It was a crazy time. Maybe things wouldn't have got so bad if Traviss had simply ignored her more autistic critics rather than firing right back at them, but...that's not what happened. 😐

Honestly even that was nothing compared to how Vader would nonchalantly snap jedi necks in Dark Horse comics.
View attachment 1141157
I think the artist got la petite mort and le grand mort mixed up...🤫

I remember when this thread devolved into people wanting to ruin Ahsoka over some grudge against Filoni earlier this month.
Ahsoka was ruined from the concept stage. She's a "kid-friendly" bit of extraneous visual junk retroactively slapped on to a story that had already been told in perfectly acceptable fashion years earlier. Basically, she's the Star Wars Special Editions as a character in Star Wars.

I love and hate that comic, to be honest.

I love the image of Vader defeating so many Jedi at once.
At the same time I HATE Vader defeating so many Jedi at once. Especially since this Vader was in his early years in the suit, so he obviously isnt adapted.
Hell, the Jedi's plan was genius and mostly well coordinated. They even "disabled" his lightsaber, Vader should have been a goner right then and there...but then their genius fades away as Vader's plot armor powers cloud their judgement and they suddenly dont want to kill the obviously fake surrendering Vader when anyone with half a brain cell with have chopped his head open with a lightsaber like an orange. The story is filled to the brim with "convenient" events that make sure Vader makes it.

Oh and before you people say that the clones were the ones that "killed" all the Jedi, they just came to finish the few that were still there.
At least I like that Sideous decided to make a lemonade out of this and spread the "Lie" that Vader killed a bunch of Jedi at once.
Was that story the start of the "OP Vader curbstomps everything" trend in SW comics? I want to say that it was... 🤔

Yeah, that was absurd. She had fought Yuuzhan Vong before then, who were completely undetectable in the Force and immune to Force powers, and Vornskr, widely considered the greatest Jedi hunters in the galaxy.
You mean Voxyn, don't you? I mean, they were originally derived from Vornskrs by the Vong Shaper caste to kill Jedi, but it's worth noting that the means by which the Voxyn (so dangerous to Jedi that literally exterminating them became a top priority for the Order) were effectively removed from the board was a (very Mandalorian-style) commando raid, with the Jedi involved relying much less on their lightsabers than they did heavy autoblasters and grenades.

That entire sequence was a result of terrible plotting, though, as it was incredibly contrived that Jaina had to be the one to kill Caedus, just for dramatic irony and call backs to NJO. Jaina was good at a number of things, from piloting to mechanical repair, but by that point Caedus was the superior duelist, Force user, and tactician, far and away. How they ended up doing it was okay; Caedus had his arm lopped off, legs torn to shreds, and completely surrendered by the time she was able to beat him, but there were far more interesting ways he could have been taken down than a contrived twin fight and that entire subplot never needed to happen if they hadn't made Caedus an OP Anakin clone and instead have made him a tactical esoteric Force user. I always wanted him to have been arrested and tried, it would have been much more unique.
I thought it would have been fun to have him nuked from orbit, like the good guys are all like, "fuck it, we're not even gonna bother trying to take on you and your bullshit grab-bag of Force powers in person. Eat turbolasers!"

That said, I still think the whole Legacy of the Force series was basically nothing but terrible plotting and incredible contrivances (though I did enjoy the bits with an aging Boba Fett gradually reconnecting with his family and Mandalorian heritage).

The Yuuzhan Vong were always stupid and out there even for Star Wars, change my mind.
The Vong are the only major antagonist faction in SW who don't come off like someone's Donut Steel of the Galactic Empire.
 
Last edited:

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The Yuuzhan Vong were always stupid and out there even for Star Wars, change my mind.
They had their roll your eyes moments, but I will take them 1000x times over the current canon. In fact, with just a few tweaks NJO becomes a very good series. Worldshaping, the World Brain, and living planets were cool as hell and they didn't rip off the prequels or original trilogy to be cool. Also, stupider shit appeared in Legends. The Vong were definitely not the farthest thing out there.

You mean Voxyn, don't you? I mean, they were originally derived from Vornskrs by the Vong Shaper caste to kill Jedi, but it's worth noting that the means by which the Voxyn (so dangerous to Jedi that literally exterminating them became a top priority for the Order) were effectively removed from the board was a (very Mandalorian-style) commando raid, with the Jedi involved relying much less on their lightsabers than they did heavy autoblasters and grenades.
I thought it would have been fun to have him nuked from orbit, like the good guys are all like, "fuck it, we're not even gonna bother trying to take on you and your bullshit grab-bag of Force powers in person. Eat turbolasers!"

That said, I still think the whole Legacy of the Force series was basically nothing but terrible plotting and incredible contrivances (though I did enjoy the bits with an aging Boba Fett gradually reconnecting with his family and Mandalorian heritage).
You're a big old school Mandalorian/Traviss fan, aren't you? I don't mind, but it definitely, definitely bleeds through in your posts. And, yes, they may have used more unconventional tactics in taking out the Voxyn, but Jacen killed the actual queen with the Force and Vergere's help. And that still doesn't quite explain why Jaina needs Boba's help to take out a Force-resistant enemy when she was adept at fighting Force-resistant enemies with different tactics by that point. Boba wouldn't be able to get within five feet of Jacen; Kyle himself was fought to a standstill/minor defeat. It's bad writing, and that was on Traviss. Legacy of the Force was an awful series with a lot of good ideas, mostly pre-Jacen becoming a Vader ripoff, and none of those ideas came from Traviss. She absolutely dropped the ball when it came to the New Republic era, I don't know why they hired her for it. The funny thing is, I don't hate her at all, she had a lot of good Old Republic era writings. And, on top of that, she got flak for killing off Mara Jade when it wasn't her fault. But I have no doubt the stupid Mando plot in LotF was her idea.
 

Gallofag

McIntosh hates Mexican Disney characters.
kiwifarms.net
Maybe it's Henry Gilroy who's basically a poor man's version of Filoni, but I don't think he has a lot of power in Lucasfilm.
One week left until Filoni Wars season 7, Then next month will get The Ahsoka Show.
Man this trailer makes me extra salty about the arcs that were left out I don't hate the Bad Batch, but am I the only one who's sees them as a low key rip off of the Republic Commandos?
 

Gallofag

McIntosh hates Mexican Disney characters.
kiwifarms.net
Uh oh, what have I missed?
That's what the Rest of Filoni Wars season 7 will be, all about Ahsoka. We could of had Son of Dathomoir, Utapau, Boba Fett, arcs. But they wasted all thier budget rewriting the scripts and redoing the animation to give Ahsoka two girlfriends.
Don't forget about the Rebels sequel series that stars Ahsoka coming out in October.
 

Cyril Sneer

Destroy All Lesbians
kiwifarms.net
They had their roll your eyes moments, but I will take them 1000x times over the current canon. In fact, with just a few tweaks NJO becomes a very good series. Worldshaping, the World Brain, and living planets were cool as hell and they didn't rip off the prequels or original trilogy to be cool. Also, stupider shit appeared in Legends. The Vong were definitely not the farthest thing out there.
Indeed.

You're a big old school Mandalorian/Traviss fan, aren't you? I don't mind, but it definitely, definitely bleeds through in your posts.
I don't think her writing's beyond criticism, but I don't think she deserves the kneejerk hatred, either, and I'm trying to prove it.

And, yes, they may have used more unconventional tactics in taking out the Voxyn, but Jacen killed the actual queen with the Force and Vergere's help. And that still doesn't quite explain why Jaina needs Boba's help to take out a Force-resistant enemy when she was adept at fighting Force-resistant enemies with different tactics by that point. Boba wouldn't be able to get within five feet of Jacen; Kyle himself was fought to a standstill/minor defeat. It's bad writing, and that was on Traviss.
It was a perfectly workable, logical idea. So you need to kill a guy who has spent years sucking up every exotic Force-based trick and technique he could get his grubby little hands on, and moreover, is intimately familiar with and probably has multiple countermeasures for all of the Force abilities that you have at your disposal? No problem, just hook up with the guys who have been fighting Jedi and/or Sith for thousands of years without benefit of the Force, because it's a dead certainty that they'll know how to kill Force-users better than anyone.
 

BipolarPon

Sad Cyborg.
kiwifarms.net
Don't forget about the Rebels sequel series that stars Ahsoka coming out in October.
I'm going out on a limb here but Ahsoka is now the new main protagonist of the Star Wars franchise as a whole, with all the other ot heroes either dead or ruined, Rey is a boring Mary Sue with no real passionate fans, Finn and Poe being deadbeats, Ahsoka Tano is the only light-side character with a big enough passionate fanbase who also hasn't died or been ruined by Kennedy. So now she's the only character they can easily bank on now.

And we got to this place even without Filoni being the head of Lucasfilm.
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
That's what the Rest of Filoni Wars season 7 will be, all about Ahsoka. We could of had Son of Dathomoir, Utapau, Boba Fett, arcs. But they wasted all thier budget rewriting the scripts and redoing the animation to give Ahsoka two girlfriends.
Don't forget about the Rebels sequel series that stars Ahsoka coming out in October.
They cannot let this woman die. I saw the Filoni tweet where he heavily hinted that she wasn't even dead by Rise of Skywalker, too. What the absolute fuck, this woman will outlive Luke at this point. It's beyond absurd that there are two fucking Jedi running around during the Original Trilogy, Unknown Regions or not. This is the same bullshit that pissed everyone off in Legends.

It was a perfectly workable, logical idea. So you need to kill a guy who has spent years sucking up every exotic Force-based trick and technique he could get his grubby little hands on, and moreover, is intimately familiar with and probably has multiple countermeasures for all of the Force abilities that you have at your disposal? No problem, just hook up with the guys who have been fighting Jedi and/or Sith for thousands of years without benefit of the Force, because it's a dead certainty that they'll know how to kill Force-users better than anyone.
I don't know. Jedi aren't exactly known for constantly using the Force during actual duels, if we're going by the movies. Boba may be tough, but considering his feats there was absolutely nothing he could have taught Jaina that would have made her able to beat Jacen in a straight duel. Remember, this is the dude who drove off Kyle and three other Jedi at once. From what I remember, Jacen was jacked off as the second best duelist in the entire Order at that point, second only to Luke (and Mara Jade, he had to cheat to beat her). I can't recall any esoteric Force powers that he knew that would be particularly advantageous during a battle. Yes, he could mask himself from detection, but the weird powers he had learned consisted of teleporting objects while concentrating, visiting the past, tracking people via his blood and influencing memories. The only powers that he obtained during his journey that were useful in battle was the Aing-Tii fighting sight. Really, the most useful ability he learned wasn't even one that he learned on his journey, it was the pain suppression techniques he learned during his torture. I can't see what Boba could have reasonably taught her that would have given her any chance at that point. It's like trying to teach Mandalorians how to beat Revan, it just isn't possible. She only ended up beating Jacen through sheer determination, refusing to let him rest and recuperate, with Luke helping, and with Jacen finally just giving up to save his daughter.
 

BipolarPon

Sad Cyborg.
kiwifarms.net
They cannot let this woman die. I saw the Filoni tweet where he heavily hinted that she wasn't even dead by Rise of Skywalker, too. What the absolute fuck, this woman will outlive Luke at this point. It's beyond absurd that there are two fucking Jedi running around during the Original Trilogy, Unknown Regions or not. This is the same bullshit that pissed everyone off in Legends.
You know if Ahsoka and Space Aladdin are alive at this point, you might as well bring K'Kruhk into this mess, as in the True Eu he survived getting beaten up by every Jedi Killer during the Clone Wars, Survied Order 66 and helped Luke Skywalker rebuild the Jedi order and outlived him to be the new grandmaster.
k'khruk.jpg

Yeah I thought we would get away from these storylines in the Nu canon, but I guess not. I don't actually mind him surviving and becoming Grandmaster after Luke, but that was a big defense of the shafting of the True Eu, along with Palpatine clones but look where we are now.
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Yeah I thought we would get away from these storylines in the Nu canon, but I guess not. I don't actually mind him surviving and becoming Grandmaster after Luke, but that was a big defense of the shafting of the True Eu, along with Palpatine clones but look where we are now.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I liked K'Kruhk, but a lot of people hated that so many Jedi seemed to be running around during the Empire. One of the worse examples was when Luke met Celeste Morne, who was possessed by that Sith and was alive during the Mandalorian Wars. The new canon isn't any better at avoiding this shit, you have Ahsoka and Ezra who are seemingly going to outlive Luke and Clones joining pirate crews long after the Clone Wars due to carbonite fuckery. And then, of course, there's Palps surviving and it not even being explained. This shit is as goofy as the old canon. I would have preferred my goofy shit be the valid one then.
 
Tags
None