Star Wars Griefing Thread (RISE OF THE SKYWALKER SPOILERS) - Safety off

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GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slaying Anti-Lego Regiment
True & Honest Fan
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It warms my heart to see people arguing over the Vong again rather than Disney shit like the old days.
Vong.png

The Vong themselves may or may not be great, but the basic idea of the next threat coming from outside the known galaxy seems like a natural direction to take the story in, better than another Empire.
I think that about sums up my sentiments on them. It wasn't a distaste towards them or their lore, because honestly their culture and bioweapons were pretty interesting, especially their monsters. My distaste though mainly came from what they did and how much needless damage and destruction they caused to the point where they felt more like part of a crossover between SW and 40k, because so much grimdark kind of upsets the optimistic tone of SW which is kind of what Disney is doing by nuking so much of the galaxy and its characters, but again, I understand why people liked the Vong and how they helped to define better characters (although nuking half the galaxy and the jedi for the sake of developing a handful of characters is not exactly a good trade off), but to their credit, the Vong at least didn't destroy the characters/personalities of Luke, Han and Leia, and any depression Han had was at least believable because of Chewie. Would I like to see the Vong again? No. Would I like them to be canon over Disney shit? If that's my only option then yes, because at least then the Jedi Order thrives and Luke is practically revered and beloved throughout the galaxy like he deserves and Leia never gets kicked out of the Republic and humiliated and they all have their progeny to continue their legacies for them.

Yeah, that's what I mean. I liked K'Kruhk, but a lot of people hated that so many Jedi seemed to be running around during the Empire. One of the worse examples was when Luke met Celeste Morne, who was possessed by that Sith and was alive during the Mandalorian Wars. The new canon isn't any better at avoiding this shit, you have Ahsoka and Ezra who are seemingly going to outlive Luke and Clones joining pirate crews long after the Clone Wars due to carbonite fuckery. And then, of course, there's Palps surviving and it not even being explained. This shit is as goofy as the old canon. I would have preferred my goofy shit be the valid one then.
To be honest I never had much of an issue with so many jedi surviving per se. Its a big galaxy with many jedi and Service Corps jedi spread throughout it. There were about 10,000 jedi in the order at the time of the prequels, so at least 100 or less surviving doesn't seem all that impossible, especially if they were off-world. Also, one of the things I saw Disney shills defend viciously about Disney Wars and insult the EU for back when the retcon began was the number of surviving jedi but now there's actually almost just as many surviving jedi under Disney as there were in over 30 years of media history, and Disney Wars is only about 5 or so years old. So imagine what this shitfest will look like in another 5 years, it'll make you wonder if there even was an Order 66 and that maybe all the Filoni clones took out their brain chips and faked the deaths of most of their fucking jedi generals. Filoni implying that Ahsoka is still alive even in IX feels like shameless favoritism though and even makes Luke's hermitism and TLJ make even less sense if there are still so many jedi out there. Even the new shitty Marvel comics imply that there's a living female jedi watching over Luke and secretly guiding him...
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
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It warms my heart to see people arguing over the Vong again rather than Disney shit like the old days.
The Vong being really cool isn't even my most controversial opinion. I've defended some of the ideas in Legacy of the Force before. Me and my dad used to get in spats back in the day (damn, I really miss those days, the old EU and specifically the YJK series was what my dad used to introduce me to Star Wars) because I didn't think Jacen turning into a Sith was a bad idea. I just wanted him to use it as a mask or a means to achieve an end, because he basically decided that he would be what the galaxy needed him to be. And if the galaxy needed a Sith, he would be one. Kind of like Revan, in a way, but instead it would come as a result of Jacen's warped all-encompassing love for the galaxy. I just hated that he turned into an incompetent buffoon who made countless tactical errors, killed his officers just like Vader and blew the overwhelming respect the Alliance had for him in the process, was more worried about his daughter half the time, and then died like a stupid bitch because of a contrived virus plot point. I don't mind that the dark side corrupts, if he remained himself despite becoming a Sith it would completely destroy Lucas's vision. But it doesn't mean you have to become a sub-0 IQ dipshit, plenty of Sith were smart and thought ahead. The good dark side influences in the series were the subtler things, like Jacen slowly looking back in disgust at Anakin Solo and ultimately viewing him as weak, or manipulating Tahiri into being his apprentice through a form of time travel that he knows can't actually bring Anakin back to life (and sleeping with her in the process according to FotJ, ew). It's stuff like that that really hits you hard, not randomly killing people or firebombing Kashyyyk. I even liked Invincible because they prefaced each chapter with jokes Jacen used to tell, it showed how far he had fallen.

Fun fact for the thread, one of the original plans for LotF would have been that in the very final battle Jacen would have time traveled and ended up in Anakin Solo's body, right before his death, and Anakin would have possessed Jacen's body from then on. It sounds really dumb, I'm glad they didn't do that.
 
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GeneralFriendliness

General of Dokar's Soy-Slaying Anti-Lego Regiment
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Wow, Really? When did this plot point developed.
I talked a bit about it before, but apparently in Marvel's shitty Shadows of the Empire replacement, there's a female jedi figure watching over Luke and sending him visions to guide him. She is also the one that retrieved Luke's lightsaber from Bespin and apparently knows his future. Same comic also retcons Lando infiltrating Jabba's palace to free Han. Instead he lied to Chewie and Rebels and sold them out to Jabba to get a cushy gig for him while also helping to convince the Empire to free Bespin, so they're apparently going to set it up as Lando having second thoughts at the last minute before ROTJ to suddenly give a shit about Han. This reminds me of what they tried to do with Han in TLJ where they planned to have him appear only to betray everyone again. Its like the Disney Wars writers grasp onto a single character trait and stick with it to death and exaggerate it tenfold while completely failing to understand the concept of progression and development unless its backwards development where the character devolves into an even more simplistic and broken incarnation of their former selves, like Luke and Han in the films just going back to being loners doing the exact same shit they used to do (farming/smuggling) but being more miserable than ever. And Leia is almost unrecognizable and the shitty Resistance novel has Poe state that she hates the title of princess and it makes her super angry when people call her one.

Man this trailer makes me extra salty about the arcs that were left out I don't hate the Bad Batch, but am I the only one who's sees them as a low key rip off of the Republic Commandos?
I would've preferred something honoring the Commandos, but at this point I'd rather Disney not touch them either. Something like the Bad Batch doesn't seem impossible though, and I can imagine mutant clones with unique traits being a valuable asset for a unique type of squad. I'm more miffed that they chose to completely drop the Utapau storyline, mainly because that was supposed to be Grievous' redemption arc where he finally kicks ass again (although it wouldn't make much sense in the context of the films for him to be on Utapau again right before ROTS), but it certainly would've made all the humiliation he suffered in Filoni Wars seem almost non-existent.

And in regards to the Commandos (again), I still am inclined to be somewhat thankful that Disney created a new continuity instead of assraping the old with woke content or more messes. My main grievance is that they chose to completely abandon the old canon and shut down everything instead of allowing/funding unfinished projects to be completed as a last hoorah (like Battlefront 3, 1313, the legacy comics, etc etc) and then doing animated adaptations of all those novels and comics and HD-remasters of old games as something to keep the old guard pleased while nu-fans get their shovelful of whatever Reylo crap they want. I mean they wasted almost 10 years doing nothing truly successful with the brand except maybe the Mandalorian and it just makes you realize what a fucking waste its all been. It makes the blank SW period of the mid-late 80s look like a golden age...
In other news:

View attachment 1144247


His TLJ video came out on February 21, so I'd imagine TRoS (or whatever he calls it) isn't too far away.

I'm looking forward to it.
Wow, even longer than Last Forecebender? This is gonna be one hell of a disaster review. Almost all of the reviewers I was looking forward to the most (the ones who do video edits and le dank meh-mehs) are taking extra long to make their videos, which shows how much there is to say about this crap pile.
 
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Cyril Sneer

Destroy All Lesbians
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Her vision of the Mandos gives them tons and tons and tons of OP traits that push them over the edge into 'Gary Stu Nation'. They're gruff, but tender. Tough, smarter than everyone around them, open minded in all the pandering ways, they're not uptight, they honor tradition and family, they adopt kids at the drop of a hat. Etc, Etc, Etc.
Nothing that the EU hadn't seen before, really. Compare Corellia, which, as per Michael Stackpole and Aaron Alston, was acknowledged as one of the single most important planets in galactic history, boasted huge amounts of political clout despite not having even a fraction of the population of other Coreworlds like Coruscant, was geographically a sort of pastoral paradise despite being home to the Corellian Engineering Corporation constantly churning out millions of light starships like the Millennium Falcon, and they even had their own, unique sect of Jedi with their own distinct robes and traditions who basically told the Jedi Council on Coruscant to go fuck themselves after the post-Ruusan Reformation "no attachment" rules were laid down. Also, the average Corellian is apparently a devil-may-care, freedom-loving, smooth-talking, roguish gambler/gunfighter who flies starships better than anyone else in the Galaxy and doesn't afraid of anything (also, the future Imperial family will be formed from the offspring of the two best Rebellion-era Corellian pilots).

The Mandalorian show used some of what she built, but pared it waaaay down.
I was thinking about this a little bit more (since, as I commented previously, Favreau's Mandos are, if anything, presented even more positively than Traviss's, with none of the underhanded deviousness that even the more outwardly heroic Traviss Mandalorians often display), and I think I may have potentially pinned down a significant reason as to why Favreau's Mandos are widely accepted where Traviss's were extremely divisive, even though both examples are probably more similar on the whole than they are different.

The reason, I'm going to argue, is that Favreau's Mandalorians evince a sense of humility about themselves. Dinn Djaren, the Mando himself, is generally quite polite, in an understated way, and usually treats most beings he interacts with in a dignified fashion (unless they're trying to kill him or his colleagues). He pays generously for services rendered and helps support the orphans of his clan. Despite basically being a one-man army, he doesn't treat his phenomenal ability to apply lethal force as a reason to be stand-offish or condescending to less dangerous beings. This sense of restraint and modesty is further reinforced by incidents like his refusal to accept credit for taking down the Mudhorn beast because "it wasn't a noble kill," and is also reflected by the other members of his clan, for whom their creed takes precedence over all other concerns and governs their lives. Even the temperamental and belligerent Paz Vizsla displays sufficient humility to immediately settle down without complaint after the armor priestess intervenes in his dispute with Djaren. "This is the way," as they say, and it's a revealing antiphon, because it's suggestive of personal submission to a higher authority, and makes for a pretty extreme contrast with Traviss's Mandalorians, of whom it is said that "they dispensed with their gods long ago," apparently because they didn't "pull their weight."

Even generally enjoying Traviss's writing, as I do, I think it's pretty fair to say her Mandos are kind of abrasive at the best of times, rarely missing an opportunity to crap on non-Mandalorians, either to their faces or behind their backs, for the offense of not being Mandalorians (though this is somewhat mitigated by the relatively low entry barrier to actually becoming a Mandalorian in Traviss's works).

It's somewhat ironic, since Traviss's template for the "standard" Mandalorian personality-type appears to be Fenn Shysa (chummy, chatty, cheerful, can singlehandedly wipe out an Imperial garrison without breaking a sweat), but Fenn, in the old Marvel comics, seemed to bear no ill-will or disdain to anyone (barring obvious enemies), to the point where he sometimes ended up having to play peacemaker when relations between the other "Star Warriors" got a little too heated:

StarWars1075 (crop).jpg


Contrast this with characters like Kal Skirata, who, whatever their other virtues, often seem to go out of their way to aggravate aruetiise (outsiders), and jettise in particular (including Skirata's long-suffering immediate superior in the Grand Army of the Repulic's hierarchy, Jedi Master Arligan Zey). It may have some justification in-universe, but it also comes up so frequently that it really does tend to look like Traviss's Mandalorian characters just being obnoxious for obnoxiousness's sake. 🤔

It warms my heart to see people arguing over the Vong again rather than Disney shit like the old days.
View attachment 1143808
Ah, the feelz, the memories. :feels:

I think that about sums up my sentiments on them. It wasn't a distaste towards them or their lore, because honestly their culture and bioweapons were pretty interesting, especially their monsters. My distaste though mainly came from what they did and how much needless damage and destruction they caused to the point where they felt more like part of a crossover between SW and 40k, because so much grimdark kind of upsets the optimistic tone of SW which is kind of what Disney is doing by nuking so much of the galaxy and its characters, but again, I understand why people liked the Vong and how they helped to define better characters (although nuking half the galaxy and the jedi for the sake of developing a handful of characters is not exactly a good trade off), but to their credit, the Vong at least didn't destroy the characters/personalities of Luke, Han and Leia, and any depression Han had was at least believable because of Chewie.
I've argued before that the Vong War pretty much took the status of Luke's New Jedi Order as the rightful "Guardians of the Galaxy" and sealed it in stone, because rather than simply assuming the mantle of the old Order as galactic protectors, Luke's Jedi purchased it with copious amounts of their own blood, leading the war-effort against the Vong from beginning to end.
 
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Gallofag

McIntosh hates Mexican Disney characters.
kiwifarms.net
I'm more miffed that they chose to completely drop the Utapau storyline, mainly because that was supposed to be Grievous' redemption arc where he finally kicks ass again (although it wouldn't make much sense in the context of the films for him to be on Utapau again right before ROTS), but it certainly would've made all the humiliation he suffered in Filoni Wars seem almost non-existent.
Lot of the stuff in that show doesn't make sense with Rots. Grievous being on utapau a couple of months before is really nothing compared to Maul and Ahsoka, and the arc did have a scene that would work perfectly for a more Ahsoka centric season. The vong appearing like Filoni originally planned would most likely be the last straw that would fully cement Tcw or Filoni wars in its own separate continuity.
 

Cyril Sneer

Destroy All Lesbians
kiwifarms.net
They cannot let this woman die. I saw the Filoni tweet where he heavily hinted that she wasn't even dead by Rise of Skywalker, too. What the absolute fuck, this woman will outlive Luke at this point. It's beyond absurd that there are two fucking Jedi running around during the Original Trilogy, Unknown Regions or not. This is the same bullshit that pissed everyone off in Legends.
Even in the old EU, the surviving post-Purge Jedi were mostly just minding their own business and trying to avoid attracting attention, not running around fighting Inquisitors and generally wrecking the Empire's shit such that Grand Moff Tarkin, Grand Admiral Thrawn and the Emperor's hatchet-man himself, Darth Vader, get involved.

I don't know. Jedi aren't exactly known for constantly using the Force during actual duels, if we're going by the movies. Boba may be tough, but considering his feats there was absolutely nothing he could have taught Jaina that would have made her able to beat Jacen in a straight duel.
Going by the movies, George Lucas was at one point fully committed to having Boba kill Mace Windu, the former top lightsaber duelist and holder of Jaina's "Sword of the Jedi" title, only dropping the idea after deciding that Boba would have been too young at the time:



Remember, this is the dude who drove off Kyle and three other Jedi at once. From what I remember, Jacen was jacked off as the second best duelist in the entire Order at that point, second only to Luke (and Mara Jade, he had to cheat to beat her).
That's the thing, though. You're thinking in terms of a duel, not a take-down where the target is, say, incapacitated with a sonic field generator before being neutralized with a disruptor bolt or copious amounts of blaster-fire.
 
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Truthboi

The True and Honest Man
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To be honest the idea of Reylo is interesting on paper but given there is no consistent characterization of both characters given Kylo is either a sad boy who was unfairly treated to fucking Kylombine or Rey being a blank wood board who gets happy killing enemy pilots or sad she doesn't know her parents.

Like Reylo would be interesting if like the trilogy, it was developed under a singular vision and done in a way that wasn't just leeching off of the foundation of the previous movies.

But this is what we get when we get a corporate fake feminist who thinks a hack who commits regular plagiarism and someone incapable of doing sequels of other directors are compatible directors to helm a trilogy.
 

HandsomeDan

Copy Gold Leader, Im already on my way out...
kiwifarms.net
Im just over and past the whole thing now. I really dont see how Star Wars could ever be redeemed for me, the damage is too deep. The vindictiveness of the demons who did this and their deliberate and gleeful destruction of things that were very important to all of us is irreversible at this point.

Star Wars is now like a very rare desirable car that was abandoned with a body inside and burned. Because of its value (or previous value) the feeling is that it must be restored. However if you have any experience with burned cars they can never be properly restored and new paint will not mask the damage. Then there is the body that was left in it, well there will never be anything that will make up for that and that is a stigma that will never be forgotten

In short, the damage is done and it is too late. I have even lost interest in the shock value of their actions. I just dont care anymore...
 

HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
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Going by the movies, George Lucas was at one point fully committed to having Boba kill Mace Windu, the former top lightsaber duelist and holder of Jaina's "Sword of the Jedi" title, only dropping the idea after deciding that Boba would have been too young at the time:
Outside of the fact that this would have probably been during Order 66, it wasn't actually in the movies. Mace Windu was killed by Palpatine.

That's the thing, though. You're thinking in terms of a duel, not a take-down where the target is, say, incapacitated with a sonic field generator before being neutralized with a disruptor bolt or copious amounts of blaster-fire.
Jacen had insane foresight and an ability to absorb blaster energy and had served in countless GAG raids, on top of serving in an actual war. He wasn't an out of touch prequel Jedi, he was very well versed in warfare. Vergere herself says in Traitor that Jacen is dangerous even without a lightsaber, and going by the book he most certainly is. Boba is probably one of my favorite characters, but by the time of Jacen's power creep in LotF the dude wouldn't stand a chance. It's like theorizing if Boba could have killed Luke or Darth Vader, you'd probably get eye rolls. LotF really needed a rewrite from the ground up, and the stupid shit that the other authors introduced certainly wasn't Traviss's fault.

And yeah, I'm glad to see people argue about NJO again. Brings me back to a nicer time.
 
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RumblyTumbly

kiwifarms.net
Going back to the Vong, had Disney given me the keys to the kingdom and let me do whatever I wanted with the ST, I would have taken the NJO books, thrown them on the table and gone "Number 1: The Thrawn Trilogy happened, and its still canon, and Number 2: We are going to narrow these 19 books down into 3 movies, cherry picking the best stuff to adapt".

Is that the best direction? Probably not, but my way at least solves the following problems that the ST crashed into hard:
1) It gives us a framework for a trilogy. A story with a beginning, middle, and end, and there would have to be some changes, but at least its a starting point.
2) The old characters get to maintain their dignity. Luke is married to Mara and is helps to establish a New Jedi Order, the New Republic is in full swing and Leia helped to establish it (even serving as Head of State at some point), and she and Han raised a happy and healthy family.
3) The Vong are the villains, which solves two problems: 1) You aren't just rehashing the OT with another Empire and 2) It doesn't undo the accomplishments achieved in Return of the Jedi. It is a new threat entirely, and they can even toy with the idea that The Emperor and Thrawn both knew the Vong were coming and saw the Empire was the best way to secure the galaxy, and the Republic now has to affirm that their way is the right way.
4) You get a main female character in Jaina Solo who isn't invincible god-lady that knows how to do everything. She is trained by Luke and a student of the academy, and in these books, she struggles with her own anger and potential descent into the Dark Side as the Vong takes more and more away from her. She overcomes this and helps to save the Galaxy with her brother Jacen and Luke working together to do it.
5) Oh and you still get the Empire imagery as what's left of them actually join forces with the Republic. That's right motherfucker! Storm Troopers and TIE Fighters come to the rescue in these books! I would have killed to see Grand Admiral Pellaeon and Admiral Ackbar in a war room together discussing strategy. So you get the nostalgia points for all of that, but you do something different with it to keep it fresh.

So I guess you could say my motives for selecting the NJO as a basis for the ST is purely lazy, or choosing a path of least resistance as its the easiest way to get around any issues people might have, but fuck! I'll still take this over what we ended up getting.
 
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HeyYou

seriousposter
True & Honest Fan
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Going back to the Vong, had Disney given me the keys to the kingdom and let me do whatever I wanted, I would have taken the NJO books, thrown them, the table and gone "Number 1: The Thrawn Trilogy happened, and its still canon, and Number 2: We are going to narrow these 19 books down into 3 movies, cherry picking the best stuff to adapt".

Is that the best direction? Probably not, but my way at least solves the following problems that the ST crashed into hard:
1) It gives us a framework for a trilogy. A story with a beginning, middle, and end, and there would have to be some changes, but at least its a starting point.
2) The old characters get to maintain their dignity. Luke is married to Mara and is helps to establish a New Jedi Order, the New Republic is in full swing and Leia helped to establish it (even serving as Head of State at some point), and she and Han raised a happy and healthy family.
3) The Vong are the villains, which solves two problems: 1) You aren't just rehashing the OT with another Empire and 2) It doesn't undo the accomplishments achieved in Return of the Jedi. It is a new threat entirely, and they can even toy with the idea that The Emperor and Thrawn both knew the Vong were coming and saw the Empire was the best way to secure the galaxy, and the Republic now has to affirm that their way is the right way.
4) You get a main female character in Jaina Solo who isn't invincible god-lady that knows how to do everything. She is trained by Luke and a student of the academy, and in these books, she struggles with her own anger and potential descent into the Dark Side as the Vong takes more and more away from her. She overcomes this and helps to save the Galaxy with her brother Jacen and Luke working together to do it.
5) Oh and you still get the Empire imagery as what's left of them actually join forces with the Republic. That's right motherfucker! Storm Troopers and TIE Fighters come to the rescue in these books! I would have killed to see Grand Admiral Pellaeon and Admiral Ackbar in a war room together discussing strategy. So you get the nostalgia points for all of that, but you do something different with it to keep it fresh.

So I guess you could say my motives for selecting the NJO as a basis for the ST is purely lazy, or choosing a path of least resistance as its the easiest way to get around any issues people might have, but fuck! I'll still take this over what we ended up getting.
I think NJO would work better as a TV show, especially considering it's split in half more than it is split in three. So the first part of the series would be up to Star by Star, ending with Anakin's death, Jacen being captured, and Coruscant falling. Then, the second half of the series covers Dark Journey to Unifying Force. The Jedi doing cool stuff isn't the only reason the series is good in my eyes, the novels portraying the normal part of the war were always just as important. In that sense, I think the series works better as a war drama than a trilogy, especially considering just how many characters there are. I agree with you that Thrawn should be in the background as canon material rather than being adapted, but especially now that the sequel trilogy was a dud I think it would have been far better to not make any more trilogies and leave the saga as is. TV shows, one off movies and other material would have been sufficient.
 
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