Star Wars Griefing Thread (THE RISE OF SKYWALKER SPOILERS) - Safety off

King Dead

Cops are better when they're mecha.
kiwifarms.net
I mentioned it a few times in the thread on MauLer's vids, but Disney's fuck-ups on Star Wars are a step beyond anything ever seen before as far as fuck-ups go in universe consistency. I'm serious. Let me briefly establish the myriad levels of lore consistency fuck-up and their implications:

A minor fuck-up may derail the train of thought of some audience members and may have minor quibbles, but the rest of the concept remains solid and if writing stays competent, should have no further issue for the remainder of the subplot. At the absolute worst level of damage, it's written off entirely and everyone does their best to pretend it didn't happen or even lampshade it.

A major fuck-up will almost certainly derail the train of thought of an audience member, and may very well be something that needs addressing. A character acting out-of-character can be one of these. A major fuck-up can cause some damage, but traditionally only for those involved with it. The universe is still fine regardless.

A complete fuck-up is a different manner. A complete fuck-up totally details the train of thought of the audience, and causes lasting damage to any current plots and subplots. At this point, the universe itself has taken damage. It's still possible to recover from this, but the window for that happening is closing fast. It will take extremely solid writing to salvage, and if that's not forthcoming, it's going to need retconning.

A critical fuck-up is the biggest and rarest. A violation of universe consistency of this magnitude fucks up the entire work of fiction it's attached to, and damages its attached universe so utterly that retconning it or dumping the thing as non-canon is the only salvation to save the body whole. It is unsalvagable otherwise.

Impossibly, Disney Wars has managed to do the impossible and make something beyond a critical fuck-up. We are now officially in the territory of formerly-only theoretical fuck-up levels. They have managed to not just create a lore inconsistency bad enough to ruin the entire fabric of the universe, but in the attempt to save face, created additional, even bigger ones, with even bigger potential damage inflicted in the process. There is nothing left. Whether you were a fan of the PT, OT, or ST, the series is dead. And yet, it exists, refusing to go away and die.
I honestly can't say I've seen anything like it before. The established rules of the Star Wars universe are ripped up and tossed aside over and over again, and when fans point out the gigantic inconsistencies and plot holes that this causes, they immediately try to paper over the cracks with some bullshit excuse for why things happened the way they did in the movies, usually in a novel or comic that nobody will ever read. Frequently that excuse is pointed out as flimsy at best, so they contradict themselves with another excuse instead. And then to make matters worse, because there seems to be zero internal communication among anyone working for Lucasfilm, you'll often have multiple different excuses at once, making it even harder to figure out what the fuck is supposed to be going on.

I have a couple noteworthy examples that come to mind.

Let's start with the firing sequence of Starkiller Base. You have this gigantic planet-sized superweapon that fires a beam so powerful it can shoot across the galaxy and obliterate a system however many light-years away. Okay, pretty overpowered, but whatever. In the Star Wars universe, it's at least plausible. But then, our heroes on whatever-the-fuck-Orange-Yoda's-planet-is-named look up in the sky and can see all of this happening, clear as day. Just as in Abrams Trek, JJ proves he has absolutely no fucking clue how utterly enormous the distances in space are, so people point this out. Then the response: something about the dark energy that Starkiller Base uses warps space-time itself to make it visible to everyone in the galaxy all at once, like some kind of random forced TV broadcast. Did the First Order know this was going to happen? How would you even figure that out without alerting everyone of this superweapon, perhaps before you're ready to use it?

How about Yoda's Force ghost calling down lightning? Not only is this a power we haven't seen before (Force lightning, sure, but that's more of a Sith power and not something that's summoned like you have the G.I. Joe Weather Dominator), it's a Force ghost having physical interaction with the world, something that, to my knowledge, no other Force ghost has ever done. The standard rule for Force ghosts as seen in the films is that they can show up and communicate with Force-sensitive people, but that's pretty much the limit of what they can do. But now here's Yoda's ghost calling down lightning like it's no big deal. From what I recall, they didn't even bother coming up with an excuse for this one, but if there is one, let me know.

And of course, we certainly can't forget the lunacy that is the Holdo Maneuver, probably the biggest fuck you to the lore in these movies. Now, I'm not sure what all the lore has to say about hyperspace and how hyperdrives work, but I'd guess that a smart author at some point thought about it and came up with a reason why hyperspace ramming wouldn't work. Regardless, that's not all that relevant to this discussion. There's a damn good reason why we haven't seen hyperspace ramming in Star Wars before: it renders space battles completely fucking pointless. Why bother amassing huge fleets or giant superweapons when your opponent could wire a droid brain to a hyperdrive and obliterate your forces with practically zero losses? It ruins the coolness of epic space battles by putting that annoying question in the back of your mind: "why aren't they just ramming it?"

This one deserves extra mention because of how Disney keeps fumbling over themselves trying to keep their canon in check. When fans pointed out how this is something that has never happened in canon before, they came up with an excuse: Admiral Tumblr's ship has experimental shields that interacted somehow with a hyperspace jump and that's how she turned her ship into a nuke. Okay, but that raises another question: why not get those shields and put them on other ships for easy nukes? And another: why the hell would anyone agree to have such destructive shielding installed on their ship, when an errant jump might wipe out not just everyone on board, but perhaps a whole planet?

So then they retconned their excuse and claimed that it was all just down to timing, that her ship was still partly in real space but moving so fast it just tore through everything. But that raises even more questions. If it's just timing, why not get a droid to run the numbers? If this is how hyperspace jumps work, why has nobody else in thousands of years thought about doing this?

Oh and then there's that throwaway line in episode 9 about how the Holdo Maneuver is "one in a million," but then at the end of the film we see another ship doing it, so I guess it's probably not all that hard after all, and now every single battle in Star Wars is just going to boil down to who can launch their instant-win nuke first.

These people have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing, and they've turned Star Wars into the biggest trainwreck in sci-fi history. If there were justice in the world, nobody who wrote any of this bullshit would work again.
 

Vault Boy

Corporate Mascot of Vault-Tec.
kiwifarms.net
Fans actually like them more compared to the nu-trilogy, so might as degrade them or kill them off unceremoniously. Just compare Porkins and Biggs in the old eu compared to the nu-eu.
View attachment 1096147

No one is safe.
I thought the bottom half was from a creepy fan comic, you're telling me that shit's part of the new canon?
 

BipolarPon

Sad Cyborg.
kiwifarms.net
I thought the bottom half was from a creepy fan comic, you're telling me that shit's part of the new canon?
Yeah, welcome to clown world.

But the word canon is just used by Disney and Lucasfilm to sell us they're new stuff. I'm taking alot of the nu-eu with a grain of salt in "Canoncity" they already contradict the films and sometimes each other.

Yeah there were contradictions in the old eu but most of it was either explained or the better alternative was chosen over the weaker. Also that was the biggest reason they told us why they were throwing it away. They're using the term "Legends" for the old continuity cause it sounds cool, but it's also a subtle way of saying "those stories you like and care for never really happened and were not continuing those story-lines ether. They are just a legend, a myth, not valid like the Nu-stuff which is "100% Canon", please buy our books and comics, dlc guide books, which is totally legit guys."
 

jellycar

50% Patty Hearst/50% Natasha Romanoff
kiwifarms.net
I enjoy how much butthurt this page has caused over the years. I've spoken about the lengthy drama surrounding this page months ago and all the failed attempts by puritans and feminists to try and get it shut down for being "sexist or indecent".


To be fair, humans in Star Wars are unique in terms of culture, history and how far more rapidly they adapt and physically evolve when compared to other species, however the biology section feels like its copied straight from Wikipedo and definitely needs to go (same with the Disney content), but then again, most wikitism sites suffer from this same problem, like the Star Trek wiki despite humans being exactly the same as irl (although at least their future history is unique) or Dr. Who wiki having an article about pens, lamps, etc. Among others.

Regardless, some of the funnier articles on Wookieepedia were the Chair and Rodian with a Jacket articles which were treated as jokes by even the site's community and were a bit of a meme, but the site has been No Fun Allowed since the Disney buyout and they've slowly been deleting the joke articles and making the whole site feel like a corporate billboard.



So are the MSM and "geek sites" even covering this? They're quick to call out old fans as sexists or bigots for not liking Disney shit, but when Disney spergs threaten Anthony Daniels, Tim Rose and John Boyega with actual threats, they refuse to talk about it. Fuck this Clown World.

Also, the writer of the Plan IX novelization confirmed that Nien Nunb died in IX and his actor's mad at the shame. So Disney has committed another shameless Ackbar death.
View attachment 1095992
Makes me think they really did plan on killing Lando and Chewie too at one point.
What happened to Anthony daniels?

I kind of hope the Jar Jar rumor is true. While the character is disliked, Ahmed Best deserves praise and not backlash. Guy almost killed himself because of the backlash, and this was before social media. I do like that he tends to play along (i.e. Robot Chicken) so I kinda hope he will reunite with Ewan (plz throw in a Liam Neeson cameo)
 

BipolarPon

Sad Cyborg.
kiwifarms.net
What happened to Anthony daniels?
He criticize the Nu-triolgy on twitter and warned fans not to get attached to Baby Yoda, I believe.

And of course, we certainly can't forget the lunacy that is the Holdo Maneuver, probably the biggest fuck you to the lore in these movies. Now, I'm not sure what all the lore has to say about hyperspace and how hyperdrives work, but I'd guess that a smart author at some point thought about it and came up with a reason why hyperspace ramming wouldn't work. Regardless, that's not all that relevant to this discussion. There's a damn good reason why we haven't seen hyperspace ramming in Star Wars before: it renders space battles completely fucking pointless. Why bother amassing huge fleets or giant superweapons when your opponent could wire a droid brain to a hyperdrive and obliterate your forces with practically zero losses? It ruins the coolness of epic space battles by putting that annoying question in the back of your mind: "why aren't they just ramming it?"
Plan 9 rectonned the Holdo maneuver to be a one in a million chance, which means Holdo is either really stupid or she legitimately is a traitor trying to get everyone killed while she escapes, but her luck got fucked. I prefer the latter explanation.
 

Prompt Critical

apropos-of-nothing
kiwifarms.net
And of course, we certainly can't forget the lunacy that is the Holdo Maneuver, probably the biggest fuck you to the lore in these movies. Now, I'm not sure what all the lore has to say about hyperspace and how hyperdrives work, but I'd guess that a smart author at some point thought about it and came up with a reason why hyperspace ramming wouldn't work. Regardless, that's not all that relevant to this discussion. There's a damn good reason why we haven't seen hyperspace ramming in Star Wars before: it renders space battles completely fucking pointless. Why bother amassing huge fleets or giant superweapons when your opponent could wire a droid brain to a hyperdrive and obliterate your forces with practically zero losses? It ruins the coolness of epic space battles by putting that annoying question in the back of your mind: "why aren't they just ramming it?"

This one deserves extra mention because of how Disney keeps fumbling over themselves trying to keep their canon in check. When fans pointed out how this is something that has never happened in canon before, they came up with an excuse: Admiral Tumblr's ship has experimental shields that interacted somehow with a hyperspace jump and that's how she turned her ship into a nuke. Okay, but that raises another question: why not get those shields and put them on other ships for easy nukes? And another: why the hell would anyone agree to have such destructive shielding installed on their ship, when an errant jump might wipe out not just everyone on board, but perhaps a whole planet?

So then they retconned their excuse and claimed that it was all just down to timing, that her ship was still partly in real space but moving so fast it just tore through everything. But that raises even more questions. If it's just timing, why not get a droid to run the numbers? If this is how hyperspace jumps work, why has nobody else in thousands of years thought about doing this?

Oh and then there's that throwaway line in episode 9 about how the Holdo Maneuver is "one in a million," but then at the end of the film we see another ship doing it, so I guess it's probably not all that hard after all, and now every single battle in Star Wars is just going to boil down to who can launch their instant-win nuke first.
As best I remember, the old EU canon was that a hyperdrive simply allowed the ship to shift to another dimension where the distance between points was shorter, speeding up travel immensely. There was no actual movement involved in going from realspace to hyperspace (the books specifically refer to the visual appearance of the ship leaping forward when it jumps to hyperspace as "pseudomotion"). Because hyperspace is overlaid on realspace, objects in realspace that have mass cast a "mass shadow" - running into a mass shadow would have catastrophic results for the ship in hyperspace but no effect on the object was casting the shadow, so hyperdrives have safety devices that will automatically disengage them if you approach a mass shadow too closely. This would prevent, for example, use of a hyperdrive in a planet's atmosphere the way we saw in both Rogue One and Episode IX.

Basically every part of this old explanation has been invalidated now though.

That said, there's been examples long before Disney of canon being rewritten on the fly because a film did something and made all the secondary authors scramble to adjust their previous assumptions. Early novelizations and sourcebooks assumed that only a Jedi could use a lightsaber (and came up with some wonky explanations as to why that would be) until Han used one to cut open a tauntaun in Empire. Authors generally assumed prior to the prequels that the Clone Wars had involved the Republic and the Jedi fighting against clones, which necessitated some serious retcons for older fiction when it turned out to be the opposite.

It's really only a problem when the change actually hurts the previous films, like "why didn't the rebel transports just jump to hyperspace directly from Hoth's surface rather than clawing their way up into the atmosphere past the Imperial blockade?" or as you mentioned "wouldn't it have been easier to hyperspace-ram the death star instead of trying to attack that little exhaust port?"
 

Jaimas

Give 'Em the Crab Jab
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I honestly can't say I've seen anything like it before. The established rules of the Star Wars universe are ripped up and tossed aside over and over again, and when fans point out the gigantic inconsistencies and plot holes that this causes, they immediately try to paper over the cracks with some bullshit excuse for why things happened the way they did in the movies, usually in a novel or comic that nobody will ever read. Frequently that excuse is pointed out as flimsy at best, so they contradict themselves with another excuse instead. And then to make matters worse, because there seems to be zero internal communication among anyone working for Lucasfilm, you'll often have multiple different excuses at once, making it even harder to figure out what the fuck is supposed to be going on.

I have a couple noteworthy examples that come to mind.

Let's start with the firing sequence of Starkiller Base. You have this gigantic planet-sized superweapon that fires a beam so powerful it can shoot across the galaxy and obliterate a system however many light-years away. Okay, pretty overpowered, but whatever. In the Star Wars universe, it's at least plausible. But then, our heroes on whatever-the-fuck-Orange-Yoda's-planet-is-named look up in the sky and can see all of this happening, clear as day. Just as in Abrams Trek, JJ proves he has absolutely no fucking clue how utterly enormous the distances in space are, so people point this out. Then the response: something about the dark energy that Starkiller Base uses warps space-time itself to make it visible to everyone in the galaxy all at once, like some kind of random forced TV broadcast. Did the First Order know this was going to happen? How would you even figure that out without alerting everyone of this superweapon, perhaps before you're ready to use it?

How about Yoda's Force ghost calling down lightning? Not only is this a power we haven't seen before (Force lightning, sure, but that's more of a Sith power and not something that's summoned like you have the G.I. Joe Weather Dominator), it's a Force ghost having physical interaction with the world, something that, to my knowledge, no other Force ghost has ever done. The standard rule for Force ghosts as seen in the films is that they can show up and communicate with Force-sensitive people, but that's pretty much the limit of what they can do. But now here's Yoda's ghost calling down lightning like it's no big deal. From what I recall, they didn't even bother coming up with an excuse for this one, but if there is one, let me know.

And of course, we certainly can't forget the lunacy that is the Holdo Maneuver, probably the biggest fuck you to the lore in these movies. Now, I'm not sure what all the lore has to say about hyperspace and how hyperdrives work, but I'd guess that a smart author at some point thought about it and came up with a reason why hyperspace ramming wouldn't work. Regardless, that's not all that relevant to this discussion. There's a damn good reason why we haven't seen hyperspace ramming in Star Wars before: it renders space battles completely fucking pointless. Why bother amassing huge fleets or giant superweapons when your opponent could wire a droid brain to a hyperdrive and obliterate your forces with practically zero losses? It ruins the coolness of epic space battles by putting that annoying question in the back of your mind: "why aren't they just ramming it?"

This one deserves extra mention because of how Disney keeps fumbling over themselves trying to keep their canon in check. When fans pointed out how this is something that has never happened in canon before, they came up with an excuse: Admiral Tumblr's ship has experimental shields that interacted somehow with a hyperspace jump and that's how she turned her ship into a nuke. Okay, but that raises another question: why not get those shields and put them on other ships for easy nukes? And another: why the hell would anyone agree to have such destructive shielding installed on their ship, when an errant jump might wipe out not just everyone on board, but perhaps a whole planet?

So then they retconned their excuse and claimed that it was all just down to timing, that her ship was still partly in real space but moving so fast it just tore through everything. But that raises even more questions. If it's just timing, why not get a droid to run the numbers? If this is how hyperspace jumps work, why has nobody else in thousands of years thought about doing this?

Oh and then there's that throwaway line in episode 9 about how the Holdo Maneuver is "one in a million," but then at the end of the film we see another ship doing it, so I guess it's probably not all that hard after all, and now every single battle in Star Wars is just going to boil down to who can launch their instant-win nuke first.

These people have absolutely no idea what the fuck they're doing, and they've turned Star Wars into the biggest trainwreck in sci-fi history. If there were justice in the world, nobody who wrote any of this bullshit would work again.
Let's forget all of that a moment. Not just because the explanation of Starkiller Base literally establishes that the First Order has infinitely viable clean energy forever using the tech involved, but because I want to lock on just to how bad this problem is. One movie. Let's lock it to examples just in one movie of complete logical and lore consistency. One movie, by itself, no extenuating factors.

I have spent roughly half my life now laughing at terrible B-movies from every era. One of my perennial favorite terrible movies is Alone in the Dark by Uwe Boll because it tries desperately to take itself seriously and fucks up basically every scene. Every single scene it does is a laughable failure, from extras fucking up their scenes to cars magically repairing themselves during a car chase, to the most magical thing I've seen outside black-and-white Japanese horror films from the 60s, an established-as-dead character visibly getting up and walking off the set.

I bring this up because Rise of Skywalker makes Alone in the Dark look competent when it comes to continuity.

Items, characters, and more just vanish, are destroyed, or materialize between scenes without explanation. Weapons vanish and reappear (Kylo losing the blaster he just had against the Knights of Ren being a premier example). Characters established as having deific levels of power suddenly can't do anything for reasons of plot contrivance. Damage to vehicles and equipment disappears and reappears between scenes. Items established as irrelevant are treated as relevant for no reason, only for the power of plot contrivance to make them so later. Plot points are picked up, established, then abandoned. The movie needs Ritalin.

My personal favorite example, however, is Kylo's ship. This one thing is such a blatant example of not giving a fuck that I am honestly taken aback by its majesty. In one scene, Kylo tries to run Rey down in his TIE Interceptor. The one with the fucking Wayfinder in it and we have established he has it in one of the earliest scenes. Rey basically destroys it. It is absolutely destroyed in totality. The command pod dislocates from the wing braces, they all fly in different directions, and explode with calamitous force. Naturally, Kylo himself is fine, but even funnier is that the ship itself is then fine soonafter when we see him use it and later see Rey steal it. And we know it's the same one because it has the Wayfinder. And we know it couldn't survive because Kylo was able to destroy the other Wayfinder with his bare hands.

I will not allow anyone to give me any excuses. There are none. There are fucking movies created on a budget of roots, grass, and whatever the fuck was in the candy dish under the sofa that have better inter-scene continuity than this and manage to not fuck up their own internal consistency to this degree.
 

Vault Boy

Corporate Mascot of Vault-Tec.
kiwifarms.net
Plan 9 rectonned the Holdo maneuver to be a one in a million chance, which means Holdo is either really stupid or she legitimately is a traitor trying to get everyone killed while she escapes, but her luck got fucked. I prefer the latter explanation.
I'd say that's a very fitting conclusion to her "arc". A stuck up bitch with no respect for military decorum, murders small animals and plants to satisfy her compulsive need to dye her hair, belittles a fellow officer asking for details about her "plan", and gets her entire organization wiped out to a single freighter because she refused to inform her soldiers.

Realizing how royally she fucked up, she tries to retreat from the ensuing carnage (possibly to get some frosty chocolate milkshakes on Coruscant to calm her nerves or some shit), only for karma to fuck her over one last time by making her getaway the one time that turns her ass into space dust.

The only thing that irks me is the series trying to portray her action as "heroic", otherwise I'm happy with this interpretation.
 

The handsome tard

Hyperion is working on the cure, it wont be cheap.
kiwifarms.net
You know guys, Im legit concerned to what will the future generations have in terms of entertainment. Because Star wars is dead (thanks Disney...), and even on its best days it wont be a third of the cultural landmark it was and the MCU "core plot" is pretty much done with. Endgame was pretty conclusive, at least for the heroes we followed since the beginning and outside of seeing maybe Spiderman sequels (tho I dare say even he is getting exausting and boring to watch) and Black Widow prequel, what the hell does it have? Dr Strange 2 just lost its director and we will always be paranoid of a Rian Johnson taking the spot. The MCU told its story and its core is pretty much done. Who the hell wants to see Cpt Marvel 2? Or She Hulk? (while I love the character when done right, she would NEVER be done well by today's tumblr writers...probably would make her a grotestic monster like in the recent comics instead of the green amazon hottie she usually is). Sure there are other heroes but its clear they have ran out of singular linear running arc (and if they do it again, it will feel obviously repetitive, what works in comics doesnt work on movies).

Once all of that is gone, what the hell will we all have? Seems like every major franchise took a nose dive to the point of becoming an exausting former shadow of their former selves...
 

neverendingmidi

it just goes on and on and on and on...
kiwifarms.net
You know guys, Im legit concerned to what will the future generations have in terms of entertainment. Because Star wars is dead (thanks Disney...), and even on its best days it wont be a third of the cultural landmark it was and the MCU "core plot" is pretty much done with. Endgame was pretty conclusive, at least for the heroes we followed since the beginning and outside of seeing maybe Spiderman sequels (tho I dare say even he is getting exausting and boring to watch) and Black Widow prequel, what the hell does it have? Dr Strange 2 just lost its director and we will always be paranoid of a Rian Johnson taking the spot. The MCU told its story and its core is pretty much done. Who the hell wants to see Cpt Marvel 2? Or She Hulk? (while I love the character when done right, she would NEVER be done well by today's tumblr writers...probably would make her a grotestic monster like in the recent comics instead of the green amazon hottie she usually is). Sure there are other heroes but its clear they have ran out of singular linear running arc (and if they do it again, it will feel obviously repetitive, what works in comics doesnt work on movies).

Once all of that is gone, what the hell will we all have? Seems like every major franchise took a nose dive to the point of becoming an exausting former shadow of their former selves...
It’s not a friggin’ tragedy. What you should be hoping for is a new concept to be allowed to flower.

Mourn the shambling wreckage of the past, embrace the memories of the bits you like, then laugh as people try to get the rotting zombies to do circus tricks.
 

The handsome tard

Hyperion is working on the cure, it wont be cheap.
kiwifarms.net
It’s not a friggin’ tragedy. What you should be hoping for is a new concept to be allowed to flower.

Mourn the shambling wreckage of the past, embrace the memories of the bits you like, then laugh as people try to get the rotting zombies to do circus tricks.
Thats what I am doing, of course, but good fucking luck getting big companies to actually try risks. Our only hope at this point are indie comics and movie companies. Oh and that those big companies eat themselves out of existence.
 

neverendingmidi

it just goes on and on and on and on...
kiwifarms.net
Thats what I am doing, of course, but good fucking luck getting big companies to actually try risks. Our only hope at this point are indie comics and movie companies. Oh and that those big companies eat themselves out of existence.
Nothing is too big to fail... unless Government is involved.

Just be sure to put a bullet in the brain of any politico that mentions bailing out Hollywood. Let it fail and collapse and something else will start up.
 

The handsome tard

Hyperion is working on the cure, it wont be cheap.
kiwifarms.net
Rian Johnson got a Best Original Screenplay nomination for Knives Out and Adam Driver got nominated in the Best Actor category for Marriage Story.
Im happy for Adam Driver, he is a legit good actor who took a lot of shit from kylo ren haters and Reylo maniacs (when the writer is more at fault here but logic is not those people's strongest suit).

Im disappointed that Rian got to fuck over the Star Wars franchise and then run back into his cinematic bubble of fart sniffers and get an oscar...

If only we could give John "Bro"yega an Oscar for "black actor who had to take the most much shit from white liberals on both hollywood and social media"
 
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