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Star Wars Griefing Thread (THE RISE OF SKYWALKER SPOILERS) - Safety off
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Honestly, Star Wars would be in a much better place if they hired real fans like @GeneralFriendliness for that Story group, instead of that yes-(wo)men that are passionate about everything... except Star Wars.
You just can't compare the love of a real fan with someone that just wants it to use it as a platform for their political opinions , or as a way to make a quick buck .
2020's election is going to be a fucking reckoning for these tards.
Shucks I'm flattered, but @Cyril Sneer and @HeyYou are probably bigger SW nerds than I. Honestly, all Iger and Kennedy had to do was just not fuck with the creative side of things with their lame story group idea and just stick with the business side of things and maybe marketing. Even if she spouted nonstop babble about the current year, it wouldn't have made a difference as long as she didn't fuck with the creative figures, but she did and had them all replaced with soccer/wine moms and soap opera writers who have zero experience in this area, and their influence shows in awful ideas like making Galaxy's Edge a joyless shopping mall, focusing on kitchenware merchandise that ironically goes against their supposed current year mantra, that Forces of Destiny disaster, and you know the rest because quite frankly I've grown sick of discussing all their exceptional mistakes.
In short, they should've just kept Leland Chee at the forefront of lore, keep Matt Martin out, not give so much power to Hidalgo so maybe he wouldn't get such a bloated ego, keep Lucasarts around instead of throwing away the game rights to EA, not give Marvel the comic rights (fuck the convenient reasons, it was still a shit decision), not hire idiots like Chuck Wendig to write the first major tie-ins for your godawful new era and not create some dumbass story group that has no idea how to do anything.
Holdo's co-creator and the current major writer for Disney's new novels kind of reveals how the story group works:
Exclusive preview: Star Wars Galaxy's Edge: Black Spire is 'Brooklyn Nine-Nine in space'
Spinning straight out of Disney's immersive new Star Wars Land at Disneyland (and soon at Walt Disney World), a new theme park tie-in prequel novel from Del Rey Books seeks to provide vivid details about this exotic fictional outpost and its clashing ideals existing at Galaxy's Edge — and SYFY...
www.syfy.com
Yes... A planet that nobody cares about... Brilliant. Such a genius move for your choice of a fucking multi-billion dollar theme park. Its like if Universal had made Harry Potter land about a random muggle school that has nothing to do with the books or movies and just have the ginger kid show up once in a while or make The Simpsons park about Family Guy but call it The Simpsons regardless. Also the complete dismissal for anything old would explain why there are no old aliens in these movies, but then again that doesn't explain why they keep overusing the same ships over and over again along with astromech droids.
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Perhaps it's part of the redesign, see the Twi'lek siblings on The Mandalorian none of them have ear cones. It's weird that Hidalgo talks about those features since they don't seem to be present in the Disney Wars version of that species.
I think he's still involved in Hollywood and works with Campea so I doubt that he wants to get blacklisted. He's already doing the impossible by criticizing Kurtzman Trek.
No offense to General(or anyone here), but that would be almost just as bad.
The story group doesn't need a bunch of ideological junior execs or a bunch of fans. It needs competent, experienced writers...
A bunch of fans would show much more respect for the property(no doubt). But, that would probably translate in utter stagnation. We would get a whole bunch of "Rogue One"s...
Plus, general fandom was pretty happy with TFA: so expect to see a ton of derivative crap....
This is a fandom that was conditioned on "it's poetry, it rhymes." Fans, as a whole, are dumb as shit. They know what they like, but no idea why they like it...
Case in point: Jeremy, from Geeks and Gamers, made a video ranting about TLJ. In the video, he made a bunch of bulletpoints on what he wanted to see(for TROS). Outside of the reylo stuff, he got it.
Disney and Co had the right long term goal: telling new stories...
But, they seemed to believe that quality didn't matter. Audiences would just gobble it up regardless...
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We just end up coming back to the core flaw in this case: we need a new George Lucas. A central idea man and storyteller manning the ship and putting down long-term plans for the entire franchise. Preferably this would be someone with passion, experience, and most importantly, creativity. That's why just being a passionate fan isn't enough. If you're uncreative or don't have much experience, you might end up doing more harm than good. Having you on as an advisor or chronologist, on the other hand, might be more helpful. This is what Nathan P. Butler--the Star Wars Timeline Gold creator--might be perfect for in a new regime.
By the way, TRoS finally broke it:
Forbes Laments 92% Box Office Plunge
Travis Bean at Forbes writes: Box Office: The 92% Plunge For ‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ Was Unprecedented But the real story isn’t how 1917 became Sam Mendes’ third-best opening weekend ever. N…
disneystarwarsisdumb.wordpress.com
Not the billion mark, but another notable record.
We just end up coming back to the core flaw in this case: we need a new George Lucas. A central idea man and storyteller manning the ship and putting down long-term plans for the entire franchise. Preferably this would be someone with passion, experience, and most importantly, creativity. That's why just being a passionate fan isn't enough. If you're uncreative or don't have much experience, you might end up doing more harm than good. Having you on as an advisor or chronologist, on the other hand, might be more helpful. This is what Nathan P. Butler--the Star Wars Timeline Gold creator--might be perfect for in a new regime.
By the way, TRoS finally broke it:
Forbes Laments 92% Box Office Plunge
Travis Bean at Forbes writes: Box Office: The 92% Plunge For ‘Star Wars: Rise Of Skywalker’ Was Unprecedented But the real story isn’t how 1917 became Sam Mendes’ third-best opening weekend ever. N…
Not the billion mark, but another notable record.
But some old man in Milwaukee said that George Lucas should have killed himself the day before shooting began on a new hope. Lucas is a hack fraud and his wife is the one that did all the work. At least thats what the guy that made space cop said. And if there is one guy that knows what a good film is, its him
not all fans are braindead and blinded by nostalgia goggles (in general, not anyone specific in this thread). I mean just look at people's headcanon plots, hardly any of them are dull diarrhea like TFA. the closest criticism is probably they still borrow more or less from the EU, but even in the worst case it's still better than whatever disney did.
what you want is people that can do the job. the story group failed at literally everything: lore is all over the place because no one gives a fuck about consistency or logic, which gets even worse when you look at the cross-media stuff. characters are shit, they don't even sell merch. they can't even go back to the old characters because they mostly killed them off and/or intentionally shat on them trying to push their OC donut steels.
even their own fucking woke shit failed spectacularly by reducing minorities to joke roles (both intentional and unintentional) and making every women a complete exceptional individual. it's incredible how hard they fucked up something that's so fucking piss-easy.
there's nothing wrong with a walking wiki, even if that's his (or hers, who the fuck cares if you can just do your fucking job) only job - just don't be a scp-level sperg and know how to work with the writers. and even then simply having someone at the helm who can tell the tards to fuck off and let them eat their high-school level writing would make a huge difference.
I’ve actually been building a new SW setting in my head for the last few weeks. The whole thing is set among a large civilization of colonists from Republic space, who got caught deep in the Unknown Regions 1700 years ago when the hyper-drive malfunctioned on there fleet of colonization vessels. They’ve rebuilt there homes and society out there, including a Jedi order. The initial main character is Owen Qel-droma, a descendant of Nomi Sunrider and Ulic Qel-droma. Owen is the first person in his family to have force abilities since them.
I have to say that most SW stuff I consume is SW: the Old Republic, which I find I really actually like!
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No offense taken, but personally, making "Rogue Ones" would be the furthest thing from my mind (especially since I wasn't fond of Rogue One for a number of reasons I've mentioned before, no offense to those who liked it). If it had been up to me, I would've had this new trilogy take place hundreds of years after the OT, allowing plenty of room for complete creativity, new shit and allowing more than enough room for some fart huffers to do whatever the hell they wanted to do with a familiar setting that only shared a visual similarity with the original and just have the OT characters appear as ghosts or holograms so as to not have your shitty new characters overshadowed while still having the originals in the roles of legendary or historical heroic figures, and the new ones are free to be whoever they want or whatever they want.
Depending on your definition of "Rogue Ones" I think I can either agree or disagree. Star Wars side story movies just don't translate as well into one shot films when compared to trilogy films, video games, tv shows or mini series (depending on the premise of course) which are formats in which such stories work far better in due to allowing more room for better pacing and character development that can't be done in one shot films or (in the case of games) allowing for more immersion by allowing the player to take part in said adventure. So flooding the market with one note "Rogue Ones" just wouldn't work (at least in the long run) unless they're designed as maybe trilogies of their own with an extended narrative that doesn't result in a rushed product with little room for character development, and if left as one note it would lead to a mess of complete stagnation and rushed storytelling like the mess that was Solo that treat themselves with too much self-importance if they're treated as only one shots instead of sagas. But I should mention that "Rogue One" itself was not a movie I personally would have thought as a good idea (although one can't also deny that it's probably Disney's least shitty film and the only one that felt like a remote step in the right direction despite its many flaws) since the characters, story, etc were something that would probably work best as a War story in SW that has no connection to ANH (which is one of the problems Disney has had since the start in trying to connect too much shit to ANH) but then it may or may not have done as financially well because aimless and blind OT nostalgia sells.
However you could still tell new stories as well as retell old stories that hardly anyone was familiar with via animated, Netflix formats or new film trilogies, thus pleasing old fans and introducing new fans to old stuff that they would conceive as new due to their obscurity (which fucking worked for the MCU, although with the MCU, only the films did well while the rest of the Marvel franchise fell into the quality gutter) without being a completely self-absorbed fucktard executive that sacrifices everything for the sake of an aimless vision that perceives that "NEW automatically equals GOOD". If anything, faithful remakes that respect the source material while improving or fixing their flaws are the kinds of films and adaptations that do better than most. Video games also offer just as much room for new narratives as films, with Fallen Order being a decent step in the right direction that's only held back by being limited to Disney canon and also some really poor visual decisions.
And while Lucasfilm does need better experienced writers, forsaking creativity and lore to do it is not the way to go about it, since that's what Disney did and it turned into a disaster. What Star Wars needed was a single author or creative figurehead, someone with a creative vision or knowledge of the world who loves the setting and is also a competent writer, which is why I always preferred the idea of James Luceno as a potential replacement for Lucas. Filoni could work too I guess but only if he's really reigned in like Favreau's done with him.
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We'd need the rare combination of experimental film-maker, cultural connoisseur, businessman, and renegade that Lucas ultimately was.
Lucas wasn't just a Flash Gordon, Valerian, and Joseph Campbell fanboy: he took direct inspiration from Sergei Eisenstein cinematography and Richard Wagner's theory of complete art.
Lucas wasn't just a director: he started off doing experimental, non-narrative films, and all of his films are basically attempts to make documentaries about imaginary worlds. He was also respected peer of Martin Scorsese, Steven Spielberg, and Francis Ford Coppola.
Lucas wasn't just a businessman: he took the risk of accepting the full consequences of sequel rights. If they bombed, he'd be left with the debt. He would also be responsible for turning the movie franchise into a multi-media phenomena.
And, as we all know, Lucas never liked executive meddling. He did things his own way, and, while people can convince him to change elements of his films, he always had the final say, from the grand plot elements to the fucking color of the furnace C3PO is almost thrown into.
This is probably why I'm really depressed by the state of things: you just won't find someone like Lucas for a long, long time; even if someone raised enough indie money to produce their own space opera, you just wouldn't have the spark that made Star Wars a cut above the rest. Like, The Last Starfighter, Jupiter Ascending, and Valerian were good films, but they weren't revolutionary in the way Star Wars was. We also don't live in an era where studios humor visionaries with sequel rights anymore. Everything's a controlled, organized machine.
Disney had the budget to pull off the greatest and grandest Star Wars trilogy of all time. All they had to do is just get someone talented behind the wheel with maybe Lucas consulting here and there...but no, they didnt, they were arrogant and selfish, thinking they could sell their ideology through the power of brand alone.
I really hope this gets recorded in history as another of the countless examples of human hubris destroying everything what once thought was indestructable through history.
I really hope this gets recorded in history as another of the countless examples of human hubris destroying everything what once thought was indestructable through history.
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They can be the story group, and you can be the one who raps their knuckles with a ruler if they start sounding like Kevin J. Anderson.Shucks I'm flattered, but @Cyril Sneer and @HeyYou are probably bigger SW nerds than I. Honestly, all Iger and Kennedy had to do was just not fuck with the creative side of things with their lame story group idea and just stick with the business side of things and maybe marketing. Even if she spouted nonstop babble about the current year, it wouldn't have made a difference as long as she didn't fuck with the creative figures, but she did and had them all replaced with soccer/wine moms and soap opera writers who have zero experience in this area, and their influence shows in awful ideas like making Galaxy's Edge a joyless shopping mall, focusing on kitchenware merchandise that ironically goes against their supposed current year mantra, that Forces of Destiny disaster, and you know the rest because quite frankly I've grown sick of discussing all their exceptional mistakes.
In short, they should've just kept Leland Chee at the forefront of lore, keep Matt Martin out, not give so much power to Hidalgo so maybe he wouldn't get such a bloated ego, keep Lucasarts around instead of throwing away the game rights to EA, not give Marvel the comic rights (fuck the convenient reasons, it was still a shit decision), not hire idiots like Chuck Wendig to write the first major tie-ins for your godawful new era and not create some dumbass story group that has no idea how to do anything.
Holdo's co-creator and the current major writer for Disney's new novels kind of reveals how the story group works:
Exclusive preview: Star Wars Galaxy's Edge: Black Spire is 'Brooklyn Nine-Nine in space'
Spinning straight out of Disney's immersive new Star Wars Land at Disneyland (and soon at Walt Disney World), a new theme park tie-in prequel novel from Del Rey Books seeks to provide vivid details about this exotic fictional outpost and its clashing ideals existing at Galaxy's Edge — and SYFY...
Yes... A planet that nobody cares about... Brilliant. Such a genius move for your choice of a fucking multi-billion dollar theme park. Its like if Universal had made Harry Potter land about a random muggle school that has nothing to do with the books or movies and just have the ginger kid show up once in a while or make The Simpsons park about Family Guy but call it The Simpsons regardless. Also the complete dismissal for anything old would explain why there are no old aliens in these movies, but then again that doesn't explain why they keep overusing the same ships over and over again along with astromech droids.
Woah, woah. Slow down there. You liked Jupiter Ascending? Not even as a jab, but I'm genuinely curious, since I never really met anyone who had anything positive to say about the film. I actually rather liked it myself, but mostly for the worldbuilding, rather than the tween babby first sci-fi Twilight dwama.
You know, the problem with a lot of big budget "blockbusters" is that the directors usually go at it with little to no restrain. They think "well, I can make this cool scene or this awesome battle" and even if it is cool or awesome LOOKING, the significance behind it comes last. For example, if ROTJ had the same budget as the Disney trilogy, they could have had Luke fighting the Emperor himself with all those flashy CGI effects...but it was far more powerful to have him refuse to kill his father and throw his saber, utterly refusing to take the violent route even if it could cost him his own life. Luke wanted to prove the Emperor wrong and he did so right there, possibly the first true time that Palpatine sees he was "ideologically" beaten. Today's writers and directors focus more on whats cool looking rather than significant for the plot and character. Its the saying "sometimes less is better", sometimes your hero achieving victory through refusing to fight is the most impactful route.
I mean, think about it. At the end of the OG trilogy, Palpatine lost in every way possible. He didnt just die, he was proven wrong by Luke. Luke had shown him what a true Jedi is, possible more true than any one is the prequels themselves. He had no answer to Luke pretty much proving him wrong except going for the violent route. He wanted to make Luke suffer before he died for that. That snowballed to Vader saving his son and spiritually redeeming himself.
In the end of the Disney Trilogy, Palpatine has been proven right and he still "won" at the end. Palpatine told Rey to kill him and she did just that. There was no way you could see that as not doing what Palpatine wanted at the end (the plot also gives no reason as to why Palpatine couldnt take over Rey or just return again after that but whatever, who cares am I right? Its "space wizard for children"...). So not only death is meaningless to Palpatine at this point, he was not truly beaten. Rey took the path of violence to beaten him. Hell, if she used the force ghost powers to possibly "drain" Palpatine's life force to the point he is a husk that can barely move (but still living), it would be far more significant that Palpatine would be reduced into a being that would see death as a merciful thing, incapable of drink, eat, sense, nothing. He is alive but not "living". Then they could seal him away where he would get to enjoy his "immortality" for the rest of eternity.
So bigger isnt always better...bunch of man children who cant see the bigger picture except to whats "cool". Also seriously lack of faith for today's audience, like, we are too stupid to have slower scenes. Joker was a pretty slow movie but sure...
I mean, think about it. At the end of the OG trilogy, Palpatine lost in every way possible. He didnt just die, he was proven wrong by Luke. Luke had shown him what a true Jedi is, possible more true than any one is the prequels themselves. He had no answer to Luke pretty much proving him wrong except going for the violent route. He wanted to make Luke suffer before he died for that. That snowballed to Vader saving his son and spiritually redeeming himself.
In the end of the Disney Trilogy, Palpatine has been proven right and he still "won" at the end. Palpatine told Rey to kill him and she did just that. There was no way you could see that as not doing what Palpatine wanted at the end (the plot also gives no reason as to why Palpatine couldnt take over Rey or just return again after that but whatever, who cares am I right? Its "space wizard for children"...). So not only death is meaningless to Palpatine at this point, he was not truly beaten. Rey took the path of violence to beaten him. Hell, if she used the force ghost powers to possibly "drain" Palpatine's life force to the point he is a husk that can barely move (but still living), it would be far more significant that Palpatine would be reduced into a being that would see death as a merciful thing, incapable of drink, eat, sense, nothing. He is alive but not "living". Then they could seal him away where he would get to enjoy his "immortality" for the rest of eternity.
So bigger isnt always better...bunch of man children who cant see the bigger picture except to whats "cool". Also seriously lack of faith for today's audience, like, we are too stupid to have slower scenes. Joker was a pretty slow movie but sure...
I liked it. It was one of the most batshit things ever put to cinema screen, and it wasn't good. But it's the closest we're getting to a 40k movie too.
Also, let's be frank. Lucas was probably good at the experimental film thing, but Star Wars was basically a remake of a Kurosawa flick. Not to say that that was a bad thing, and at the time this sort of thing was popular, but at least the man had taste in what he was
This is my long-winded way of saying that the story team appear to be uncultured af.
disney itself had already nailed down a working formula years earlier. remember when people thought after the purchase they will just ape the MCU in a star wars setting? the classic comic format of singular origins leading to a big cross-over event is simple but works, ironically they couldn't even do that. it also showed there isn't a "fatigue" or whatever clickbait excuses people will come up with. if the the movies are solid and the payoff is "good enough" (not wanting to start a discussion about endgame), people will pay for it, quite handsomely. endgame made fuck you money.
and that's not considering that star wars is a much more "open" setting than capeshit.
EDIT: that's not even considering cross-media shit where you can have stuff show up in the background or throwaway references "for the nerds" (which can then make top 10 easter egg videos for the normies, pushing word of mouth etc).
I liked it too, but I like a lot of stuff people think is shit. as long as it entertains me I'm fine with it, and I didn't think I wasted my time watching it (compared to TFA for example), so there's that. battleship is one of my favorite movies
I like it the same way a lot of people like the prequels: as a really flawed movie whose heart and genuine creativity turns cringe-tacular dialogue, poor pacing, and somewhat shallow exploration of its themes into enjoyable cheese. Like, there's something genuinely charming about The Wachowskis sinking 200 million into a story about a wolf-boy wanting to fuck a queen-bee stand-in.
Fuck, why stop there? Lucas is a great artist, in that he fucking steals from multiple artists. The Death-Star trench-run is a rip-off of The Dam Busters. the Pod-Racing scene may as well be Ben-Hur 2.0. Doctor Zhivago is the only reason Attack of the Clones really exists.
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For whatever reason, my dad decided that he wants to go see Plan IX today. I guess it's one of those "I have to see it through to the end" sort of deals, despite his complete non-reaction to TLJ that really made me think he was done with Star Wars. We've seen all the rest of them in the theater together, and I like that tradition, but after all I've heard here, I'm really not looking forward to this. I could have gone to my grave never having seen this movie and been perfectly happy, but alas.
Also didn't want to give Disney any more money for this garbage, but I don't think he'd go for the "pay for another movie and swap theaters" route, he's more of an honest man than I. At least it's a matinee so it's not full-price.
Pray for me. I'll post my own review when I get back in a few hours.
Also didn't want to give Disney any more money for this garbage, but I don't think he'd go for the "pay for another movie and swap theaters" route, he's more of an honest man than I. At least it's a matinee so it's not full-price.
Pray for me. I'll post my own review when I get back in a few hours.
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