Star Wars Griefing Thread (THE RISE OF SKYWALKER SPOILERS) - Safety off

Mississippi Motorboater

Untouchable Busty Southern Belle
kiwifarms.net
It probably helped sales. I liked Stackpole's attempt to make them more militarily coherent, but then they nuke Ithor anyway.
What was militarily incoherent or strategically unwise about nuking the one planet that creates a pollen that can be used as a lethal exploit in your military's chief means of armor?

I don't agree, some of that is just a natural difference in opinion. I don't like the immunity to the force/outside the galaxy thing. I thought it was distracting to me personally.
I can't really tell you how to feel, and you're certainly not alone in your sentiment, as it seems to be a personal hang-up with the Vong that a lot of people have (among other things).

I suppose all I can say is that for me, it was one of the things that made the Yuuzhan Vong terrifying. It forced the Jedi to essentially be as helpless and reliant on their wits as normal people around them, and thrust them into arguably the worst moral dilemma the Jedi has ever had to face. It made for many great narrative opportunities, many of which the authors definitely made use of.

When it comes to the ultimate revelation of why the Vong are immune to the Force, it's not just the turning point for the main characters...it's a turning point for many of the Vong characters as well, when they realize in that horrible moment that their religion, their culture and sense of honor, is all a shallow lie. And the characters react to that lie in different ways, generating new goals and motivations for them, as The Final Prophecy very compellingly shows.

It was something that in lesser hands, probably could've been handled terribly. When introducing something as game-changing as immunity to the Force, you need to be careful in how nuanced your explanation is and how you economize it in the narrative. To me, that's the difference between something like the Vong's twisted origins, and the complete wave-away concept of the Force Dyad in TROS that the writers had no interest in fleshing out or nurturing as a part of the lore. It's there for one-time use, to necessitate shallow pay-offs, and that's it.

As for individual Vong? I found Tsavong Lah obnoxious with a handful of exceptions that happened post Star by Star. Yim and Harrar didn't appeal either. Nom Anor was always interesting, but they didn't give him the chance to really shine until later. I liked what they did with him in the end.
I didn't see the Vong as sympathetic or interesting thru the whole thing. They were obnoxious invaders who committed genocide on the regular. Palpatine could have come back and super weaponed them all to hell and I would have been fine with that outcome.
I can't say I agree at all. Part of my big complaint with Dark Nest as a follow-up to NJO was the complete lack of interesting, varied and developed characters. The second the Vong characters were gone, I wanted them back. Tsavong Lah was a cunning and calculating villain, one I didn't find obnoxious at all---he symbolized a lot of the Vong's cruel religious fanaticism, and a threat that the story treated as deathly serious to the main characters. I even liked the way the writers showed his adherence to the caste and family traditions of the Vong culture, as demonstrated with his interactions with his father Tsulkang in Enemy Lines. He's pretty much everything I wanted from the Vong species when they were first introduced. On Harrar, while I feel he was actually underused and not that well-developed early on in the series, I really like the way he was used in the later books as one of the first Vong insurrectionists, and how he shows a remarkable amount of philosophizing and perspective once he's forced to confront the truth about his religion's falsehood, which he shares with Corran Horn (I also love his confrontation with Nom Anor in Final Prophecy). But Nen Yim was by far the biggest surprise, and my favorite Vong character by far---because she wasn't some hulking warrior or lethal assassin. She's introduced as an everywoman of the Vong culture, a young wide-eyed Shaper who's obviously been conditioned by the culture around her, but is actually motivated by her love of her craft and loyalty to her people....even to the extent that she's willing to face charges of heresy and execution if it means keeping them safe. We rarely see that kind of characterization for anatgonists of Star Wars, not without some larger redemption arc tied to them, or being a kind of combatant or large player in the military conflict at hand. Nen Yim's risking a lot, even though she likely can't do anything to save herself...she doesn't have the strength or training to avoid being killed, but she soldiers on anyway. And in spite of all of her efforts to save the Vong Civilians residing on the worldship she's frantically trying to fix, they're all mercilessly killed by Kyp Durron...leaving Nen Yim utterly and emotionally devastated, and filled with the kind of motivation to have a more vested interest in the defeat of the New Republic. It's one of the rare moments in Star Wars where the antagonist has a very rational and warranted reason to want the main characters dead, beyond the usual reason of them being "pesky, meddling Rebels". I think Greg Keyes was onto something when he introduced this character, and while I don't think all of her narrative potential was realized in the books, I still adore the role she played in the Vong's redemption as a species, and her position as the sole relatable and down-to-earth Vong character amongst a well-spring of what are essentially faith-blind, ruthless Knight Templars smearing the galaxy with the blood of perceived infidels.

I guess what I'm saying with all of this is that what kept the Vong from appearing in my eyes as just a "group of spikey-armored, uber-evil alien conquerors" was that on top of being one of the EU's finer examples of villains being driven not by simple conquest but by strong investment in their own morals (with the Vong literally believing that the GFFA populace, with their lifestyle and culture of debauchery and vile disrespect to the gods, are creating a taint on the galaxy for which the Vong are the only moral cure), but also because the specific Vong characters ushered to the forefront were multi-layered, and played a different role in the species' trajectory to redemption. Even as I go back and read books/comics about the Empire, I only rarely get flashes of the same satisfaction I had reading the constant exploits of these Vong characters, and their perspective on the war being fought. It's one of things that will keep me going back to NJO for years, and make it a highlight of the Expanded Universe for me.

But I'm enjoying LOTF tremendously for its main villain, so the Vong certainly have competition for their placement on my list of all-time great threats of the EU.
 
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Save the Loli

kiwifarms.net
8: The untitled Jabba the Hutt movie project which hardly anyone talks about now from back in 2017 that suddenly stopped being relevant after Solo bombed.

10: A movie set in Mos Eisley (milking it much Iger?) which was also canned after Solo bombed.
These two (which I never even heard of or were mentioned once and forgotten) could've been interesting if Disney actually let qualified people write them and not have their retarded policies like "Han Solo can't smuggle spice anymore because that's a drug reference" or all the other kneecapping Disney Star Wars faces when dealing with mature themes you'd expect out of science fiction western/gangster fiction. Or trying to link it all back to popular characters like Darth Maul or Han Solo. But good luck with that, because it's not Disney Star Wars without shitty hack writers, executive meddling by corporate suits, and memberberries out the ass.
 

Ghostse

Waffle SS Untermenchenfurher
kiwifarms.net
I would have legit looked forward to seeing these project before CURRENT YEAR. Now, even if they were made by competent people who didn't hate franchise and see a need to disfigure it as to make it more "inclusive", I would avoid it like a plague because I know that it would be full of woke moments.


Most projects do fail. This is true in every industry from fast food to aerospace, and Hollywood is no exception. What is unusual about Hollywood is that they almost always project a public image of roaring success. Someone at director level or higher is almost never publicly "fired." They "have creative differences" or "decide to move to independent production" or something.
This is correct.
Again, Hollywood is all smoke and mirrors, and why you should never take much stock in anyone talking about a project until talent is cashing checks. You can have a script, have had auditions, have talent commit to the project....and then just as suddenly have it all evaporate with no notice.
 

madethistocomment

welcome to god's mosh pit
kiwifarms.net
So Steven Wayne, the guy behind the High Republic redesigns I've posted in the past, dropped his redesign for Keeve Trennis. I really like this one. It's got a lot of personality and the bandages on her hands and feet give off the vibe that she incorporates punching and kicking into her fighting style. She's also much more beautiful in this redesign and doesn't look jaundiced or ashy.

20200726_200929.jpg
 
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Mississippi Motorboater

Untouchable Busty Southern Belle
kiwifarms.net
So Steven Wayne, the guy behind the High Republic redesigns I've posted in the past, dropped his redesign for Keeve Trennis. I really like this one. It's got a lot of personality and the bandages on her hands and feet give off a cute that she incorporates punching and kicking into her fighting style. She's also much more beautiful in this redesign and doesn't look jaundiced or ashy.

View attachment 1476198
>Tfw you'll never have a hot Jedi equivalent of Storm from X-Men under Disney's regime of constant uglifying

Snapshot 1 (11-09-2015 9-27 p.m.).png
 

Ghostse

Waffle SS Untermenchenfurher
kiwifarms.net
Actually now that I think about it, I'd love to see a Tartakovsky series a-la Clone Wars about Vader making a name for himself in the early Empire.

I'm an uncultured swine who doesn't really like his style and ADD storytelling, but I think it would be perfect for a Vader series, especially early Vader. There wouldn't be much prelude other than some imperial being told "You are fucking up. Darth Vader is coming to set shit straight." and Vader proceeding to Sith the problem into non-existence.

I could also see a very interesting... meta-narrative about the surviving Jedi/apprentices and the CIS-remnants joining forces.
 

GeneralFriendliness

A.W. "Noa" Brimley
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
1595826523994.png
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In all seriousness though, the drama surrounding Ray Park is insane right now. Conspiracy theories abound, lots of hate, lots of defenses, meltdown on instagram, his wife and family calling this false and harmful while others are attacking Ray Park because he wore a "nazi shirt" that said freedom is not free.
1595827069908.png

I'm honestly having trouble keeping track of it all. Shit is absolutely nuts. 2020 strikes again.
1595827231538.jpeg


Also Hal Hickle director of ILM and lead animator for the prequels drank the koolaid.
Everyone at Lucasfilm is corrupted it seems.
So Steven Wayne, the guy behind the High Republic redesigns I've posted in the past, dropped his redesign for Keeve Trennis. I really like this one. It's got a lot of personality and the bandages on her hands and feet give off the vibe that she incorporates punching and kicking into her fighting style. She's also much more beautiful in this redesign and doesn't look jaundiced or ashy.

View attachment 1476198
>Tfw you'll never have a hot Jedi equivalent of Storm from X-Men under Disney's regime of constant uglifying

View attachment 1476304
Considering how the Korunnai were basically inspired by Central Africans and how many were eligible for the Jedi Order, they could easily have done such a jedi character with a strong african yet alien influence a la Storm. But I'm sure someone would consider that racist somehow.
 
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White Devil

Zyklon Ree
kiwifarms.net
Fuck it, I'm in the pro Ray Park camp. The wife decided to play stupid games and she won a stupid prize.

As for the "Nazi" shirt, I cannot imagine being this delusional. Trying to hold someone "accountable" for a fucking tee shirt. The people who cry about that shit almost universally have never done anything with their lives but feel no sense of hypocrisy in sitting in judgement of others.
 

GeneralFriendliness

A.W. "Noa" Brimley
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Fuck. While all this Ray Park drama was happening, JW Rinzler finally decided it was time to give zero fucks and finally let it all out about how Disney literally made its employees retarded.
The tell all may not be finish but at least now we know some of what happened after that fateful day at the warehouse of horror. Big thanks to the WCB phatbois for getting Rinzler. Hope they get more interviews soon as there are many disgruntled ex-SW employees out there.

For those who don't have time to watch the whole video (still give it a go if you can), here are the most notable bits:

Rinzler said:
At Disney you were basically infantilized. Nobody was trusted, and you weren’t allowed to see things until it was far too late in terms of knowing how to, in a sense, how to maximize what you were doing in relation to this new film.
This explains why everything feels so disjointed, sterilized and even more inconsistent under Disney and confirms something that was said a while back in this thread about how it feels like every LFL employee is working separately from one another as made noticeable by that Kaleesh entry a while back.
And licensees, I don’t know about all of them, but a couple of the licensees that I worked with, I was unhappy because I thought, and again this is just my opinion, I thought they were being forced to jump through so many hoops that were unnecessary, just for security reasons. You know, these were people that we worked with for literally over a decade. You know, they could be trusted. It was just, it was damaging to our relationship, and make them jump through so many hoops.
WCB said:
So would you say it was damaging? Would people talk, were they taken aback? You've had this working relationship for up to a decade, was there any kind of thought, or did people just blindly accept, well this is how Disney runs stuff?
Rinzler said:
It was clear, that it made their jobs much harder to do. And it made the product not as good as it would have been.
WCB said:
Why did you leave Lucasfilm?
Rinzler said:
Basically, when I was executive editor, I had alot of autonomy. I was a director of publishing. But once she said it was okay to do a project, once the licensee and publisher signed on, we just did it. And I was in charge. And when it was done, and the licensee thought it was done, it was done. And all of the book proposals were pitched directly to us, and we had, we basically had a lot of control over what was going on, and we had a lot of autonomy.
But as Disney sort of slowly worked, you know in their defense they had to work Lucas licensing into their licensing program. They’re a bigger company. They had to adapt us to their working methods. I felt it basically took away all of my autonomy, which is one of the things that made the job fun. And then of course, I was no longer working with George Lucas.
I wasn’t working with anyone like him at Disney. And so it was just time to go. Also, Disney said I couldn’t write again. When I was actually at the company. Their policy was that an editor couldn’t write.

So those three big things were taken away. And I had been there for, by the time I had decided to go.

I had been there for 14... 15 years. It was time to go. I don’t regret it at all.
I guess this explains why proof reading and decent editing is more non-existent now when the only one seemingly allowed to do anything is Porgcuck (or so Porgcuck claims).
Chat member said:
I love your Rise And Fall Of Star Wars blog (the Star Wars tell-all), hope the whole thing will somehow see the light of day.
Rinzler said:
Well, it would be nice. I have to have, you know, somebody who understands these things, and can advise me in terms of what you can and can’t do legally, and also have a publisher who is willing to publish it. But I think it’s an interesting story. I would like to publish it eventually.
I hope he's careful. But it shows he's still determined to see this published but its next to impossible as things are now... right?
 

Oaat

kiwifarms.net
Not making it with scientists in mind means ignoring the radiation of gas giants in order to have your forest moons and cloud cities.
Making it retarded is not taking into account the existence of gravity on a gas giant in order to have a really boring explanation for a mystery.
Saturn doesn't have radiation in it's atmosphere like Jupiter's orbit iirc, and it even has Earthlike surface gravity. So something like cloud city would definitely be possible. As for Endor, maybe some gas giant moons have a strong magnetosphere. The galaxy has between 100-400 billion stars, so depending on the rarity of habitable planets overall, there should be good odds of getting a number of "unorthodox" systems in a galaxy-spanning setting.

JJ Abrams is just a simpleton.
 

Aqua Panda

I've seen horrors… horrors that you've seen.
kiwifarms.net
That High Republic redesign is top tier stuff, just like the other redesigns he's done. God damn, I wish the guy was actually doing the art on the project.

As for the Jabba/cantina movie, it's the first I've heard of it but I'm bummed for multiple reasons. It COULD work, but it needs a capable writer/director behind it. Someone who could do the gritty crimeworld aspect.

As mentioned, it would have to delve into hard crime, drugs, sex, and prostitution. Disney would shy away from that. The old EU could do it tastefully. Remember Guri? The blonde human female droid that Xizor occasionally slept with because she was so lifelike? That wouldn't be done today. (Which is a damn shame because it was a great way to analyze both characters. Xizor for his unabashed degenerate behaviors and Guri as she went from being a standard droid who followed orders unquestionably, to becoming a sentient being who decided whom she slept with.)

If you want to do organized crime, you can't do the standard "tell, don't show" Disney defaults at.
 
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Mississippi Motorboater

Untouchable Busty Southern Belle
kiwifarms.net
Remember Guri? The blonde human female droid that Xizor occasionally slept with because she was so lifelike? That wouldn't be done today. (Which is a damn shame because it was a great way to analyze both characters. Xizor for his unabashed degenerate behaviors and Guri as she went from being a standard droid who followed orders unquestionably, to becoming a sentient being who decided whom she slept with.)
I remember the Shadows Of The Empire comics focused on Guri being awesome. She always reminded me of a robot Mercy Grieves, in some ways.
 

jspit

kiwifarms.net
What was militarily incoherent or strategically unwise about nuking the one planet that creates a pollen that can be used as a lethal exploit in your military's chief means of armor?


I can't really tell you how to feel, and you're certainly not alone in your sentiment, as it seems to be a personal hang-up with the Vong that a lot of people have (among other things).

I suppose all I can say is that for me, it was one of the things that made the Yuuzhan Vong terrifying. It forced the Jedi to essentially be as helpless and reliant on their wits as normal people around them, and thrust them into arguably the worst moral dilemma the Jedi has ever had to face. It made for many great narrative opportunities, many of which the authors definitely made use of.

When it comes to the ultimate revelation of why the Vong are immune to the Force, it's not just the turning point for the main characters...it's a turning point for many of the Vong characters as well, when they realize in that horrible moment that their religion, their culture and sense of honor, is all a shallow lie. And the characters react to that lie in different ways, generating new goals and motivations for them, as The Final Prophecy very compellingly shows.

It was something that in lesser hands, probably could've been handled terribly. When introducing something as game-changing as immunity to the Force, you need to be careful in how nuanced your explanation is and how you economize it in the narrative. To me, that's the difference between something like the Vong's twisted origins, and the complete wave-away concept of the Force Dyad in TROS that the writers had no interest in fleshing out or nurturing as a part of the lore. It's there for one-time use, to necessitate shallow pay-offs, and that's it.



I can't say I agree at all. Part of my big complaint with Dark Nest as a follow-up to NJO was the complete lack of interesting, varied and developed characters. The second the Vong characters were gone, I wanted them back. Tsavong Lah was a cunning and calculating villain, one I didn't find obnoxious at all---he symbolized a lot of the Vong's cruel religious fanaticism, and a threat that the story treated as deathly serious to the main characters. I even liked the way the writers showed his adherence to the caste and family traditions of the Vong culture, as demonstrated with his interactions with his father Tsulkang in Enemy Lines. He's pretty much everything I wanted from the Vong species when they were first introduced. On Harrar, while I feel he was actually underused and not that well-developed early on in the series, I really like the way he was used in the later books as one of the first Vong insurrectionists, and how he shows a remarkable amount of philosophizing and perspective once he's forced to confront the truth about his religion's falsehood, which he shares with Corran Horn (I also love his confrontation with Nom Anor in Final Prophecy). But Nen Yim was by far the biggest surprise, and my favorite Vong character by far---because she wasn't some hulking warrior or lethal assassin. She's introduced as an everywoman of the Vong culture, a young wide-eyed Shaper who's obviously been conditioned by the culture around her, but is actually motivated by her love of her craft and loyalty to her people....even to the extent that she's willing to face charges of heresy and execution if it means keeping them safe. We rarely see that kind of characterization for anatgonists of Star Wars, not without some larger redemption arc tied to them, or being a kind of combatant or large player in the military conflict at hand. Nen Yim's risking a lot, even though she likely can't do anything to save herself...she doesn't have the strength or training to avoid being killed, but she soldiers on anyway. And in spite of all of her efforts to save the Vong Civilians residing on the worldship she's frantically trying to fix, they're all mercilessly killed by Kyp Durron...leaving Nen Yim utterly and emotionally devastated, and filled with the kind of motivation to have a more vested interest in the defeat of the New Republic. It's one of the rare moments in Star Wars where the antagonist has a very rational and warranted reason to want the main characters dead, beyond the usual reason of them being "pesky, meddling Rebels". I think Greg Keyes was onto something when he introduced this character, and while I don't think all of her narrative potential was realized in the books, I still adore the role she played in the Vong's redemption as a species, and her position as the sole relatable and down-to-earth Vong character amongst a well-spring of what are essentially faith-blind, ruthless Knight Templars smearing the galaxy with the blood of perceived infidels.

I guess what I'm saying with all of this is that what kept the Vong from appearing in my eyes as just a "group of spikey-armored, uber-evil alien conquerors" was that on top of being one of the EU's finer examples of villains being driven not by simple conquest but by strong investment in their own morals (with the Vong literally believing that the GFFA populace, with their lifestyle and culture of debauchery and vile disrespect to the gods, are creating a taint on the galaxy for which the Vong are the only moral cure), but also because the specific Vong characters ushered to the forefront were multi-layered, and played a different role in the species' trajectory to redemption. Even as I go back and read books/comics about the Empire, I only rarely get flashes of the same satisfaction I had reading the constant exploits of these Vong characters, and their perspective on the war being fought. It's one of things that will keep me going back to NJO for years, and make it a highlight of the Expanded Universe for me.

But I'm enjoying LOTF tremendously for its main villain, so the Vong certainly have competition for their placement on my list of all-time great threats of the EU.
I'm not ignoring you, just life has moved on.

That High Republic redesign is top tier stuff, just like the other redesigns he's done. God damn, I wish the guy was actually doing the art on the project.

As for the Jabba/cantina movie, it's the first I've heard of it but I'm bummed for multiple reasons. It COULD work, but it needs a capable writer/director behind it. Someone who could do the gritty crimeworld aspect.

As mentioned, it would have to delve into hard crime, drugs, sex, and prostitution. Disney would shy away from that. The old EU could do it tastefully. Remember Guri? The blonde human female droid that Xizor occasionally slept with because she was so lifelike? That wouldn't be done today. (Which is a damn shame because it was a great way to analyze both characters. Xizor for his unabashed degenerate behaviors and Guri as she went from being a standard droid who followed orders unquestionably, to becoming a sentient being who decided whom she slept with.)

If you want to do organized crime, you can't do the standard "tell, don't show" Disney defaults at.
I don't, I want the Disney shit to flop, hard. Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure.
 
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