Star Wars Griefing Thread (THE RISE OF SKYWALKER SPOILERS) - Safety off

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neverendingmidi

it just goes on and on and on and on...
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100% agree ont his, want to add another reason why in military hierarchies its very, very important your orders and reasoning are understood by your lower level commanders: Because you might die. and someone might have to take over.
If the entire Pussy-Power Resistance leadership had been wiped out, no one would know there was a plan, let alone how to execute it.


Of course for drama reasons I'm fine with Holdo, or any other fictional commander, playing secret squirrel games. The issue I have with Holdo is, as discussed, her plan didn't NEED to be secret - nothing was gained. Hell, given the size of the Resistance fleet, if you were worried your comms were tapped you could have just sent runners to deliver the message to the captains. She also kept it secret when there were very serious reasons TO communicate it AKA stopping a mutiny.
If they had made Holdo a secret FO plant in the Resistance, would anything in her actions (save the suicide run) need to change? This is why she sucks.
 

verissimus

kiwifarms.net
And yet, A Military Religious Organization that kidnaps children in order to make them into child "Peacekeepers" is just fine morally according to the setting.


No, no we can't because the Republic has been such an entrenched power for thousands of years that we have no idea what actual laws they have. The Old Republic did after all send people with Mind Control powers into peace talks with The Trade Federation.
When did the Jedi ever kidnap any child?
 

GeneralFriendliness

A.W. "Noa" Brimley
True & Honest Fan
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kidnaps children in order to make them into child "Peacekeepers" is just fine morally according to the setting.
When did the Jedi ever kidnap any child?
Only one instance of Jedi Council-approved "kidnapping" comes to mind. The Baby Ludi case.

"The Jedi done kidnapped mah baby after I left her in that there ol' ditch while I bought some booze went to get help durin' a quake." - Concerned mother of "kidnapped" Baby Ludi
1573347990404.jpeg


"Please understand. We didn't kidnap her. We saved her. I swear! ... Also if that dumb bitch gets the kid back, then the kid could literally force-choke her mother while she sleeps." - Jedi Master Trebor
Trebor.png


In all seriousness though and for context, the above is just a parody of a short story/article from both old canon and Disney canon where a jedi saved a baby after an earthquake and assumed her parents were dead after they could not be found and so took her in to the Order. But then her real parents turned up much later demanding their kid be returned despite that the kid was now already taught how to connect to the Force and could therefore grow up to be dangerous if left unchecked, which led to a huge anti-jedi sentiment which gave Palpatine a hard-on.

But to be fair, jedi were only allowed to take a kid if it was an orphan. Otherwise, modern Jedi did always ask permission from parents (they would even take in Force-sensitive teens if they were orphans or had no strong relationship ties) and they had the freedom to say 'no'. But Obi-Wan once did get into a slap fight with a corrupt jedi who was kidnapping kids to forcefully train them into the Order, showing that some jedi would kidnap kids for their own twisted views or to raise their own status within the Order (which was honestly becoming more political and bureaucratic than religious and spiritual). Also only reason they even preferred to use babies and toddlers in the first place is because they were less likely to form any strong emotional bonds with anyone, which was the main reason Anakin got rejected, having already become too emotionally attached to his mommy. There's other things that could be said, but I'd rather just leave it off there and post this instead:
1573350604036.png
 
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When did the Jedi ever kidnap any child?
How many of the Children training in Attack of the Clones were there? Because I tell you what if the Religious Order that the Republic sucks off at every point shows up at a parents house saying "Oh hey we need to take your kid away because they got the Force, say goodbye you don't ever get to see your child again." they aren't exactly going to argue.

That is one of the reasons I soured on the setting before Soy Wars started coming out, the entire thing is a gigantic dick measuring contest between two sets of assholes.
 

Save the Loli

kiwifarms.net
I thought the Jedi kidnapped kids all the time since that's how they "recruited". Like the Jedi would go around looking for Force sensitive kids and if they found one then they'd explain to the parents/guardians and then take them away to the Jedi Temple. I swear there was an old piece of art that showed a guy in Jedi robes taking a crying kid away from his mother. Am I just misremembering shit?
 

Liquid Kent

MGTOWindu Nuffin
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I thought the Jedi kidnapped kids all the time since that's how they "recruited". Like the Jedi would go around looking for Force sensitive kids and if they found one then they'd explain to the parents/guardians and then take them away to the Jedi Temple. I swear there was an old piece of art that showed a guy in Jedi robes taking a crying kid away from his mother. Am I just misremembering shit?
This one?

Baby_Mace_Windu.jpg


It's Mace Windu when he was taken from his parents in the short segment "Children of the Force" in the Star Wars Tales anthology series.
 

Lodoss Warrior

Making Lodoss Great Again
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This one?

View attachment 1004203

It's Mace Windu when he was taken from his parents in the short segment "Children of the Force" in the Star Wars Tales anthology series.
From what I recall, it's a nuanced issue. Most Jedi recruiters are taught to always request and reason with the parents before taking their infant children. This however, is a guideline, and not a rule: in fact, the order demands recruiters to ultimately take the child, with or without consent. Naturally, though, it's easier and more in-line with morality to receive parental consent.

It's sort of like how officers can request for your driver's license when they pull you over, even though you're legally required to show them it. Sure, they are permitted to use coercion, but that doesn't mean an officer's first approach should be busting your car's window and grabbing your license from your cold, dead hands.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Choke on these nuts
True & Honest Fan
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Doomcock said that, yeah, but I'm thinking that there'll be some stupid fucking reveal about how REY was the secret skywalker, and then she'll beat the shit out of Palpatine with this asspull. The sudden lack of audience score details act-by-act for the second and third revisions, as well as a lack of confirmation about audience composition makes me wonder about those scores, too.
If these secret Skylwalker rumors are true, the trilogy is fucked.
Either, Rey is upstaged by some newcomer that happens to be a Skywalker and it invalidates her character or she is the Skywalker and it invalidates the precious TLJ theeeeeeeme of killing the past.
No matter how they'd do it, it would be a blatant and desperate attempt to recover some old fans and I hope they'll see right through it. The title of the movie alone makes me laugh.
"Rise of Skywalker", might as well have called it "Please come back old fans!"

100% agree ont his, want to add another reason why in military hierarchies its very, very important your orders and reasoning are understood by your lower level commanders: Because you might die. and someone might have to take over.
If the entire Pussy-Power Resistance leadership had been wiped out, no one would know there was a plan, let alone how to execute it.


Of course for drama reasons I'm fine with Holdo, or any other fictional commander, playing secret squirrel games. The issue I have with Holdo is, as discussed, her plan didn't NEED to be secret - nothing was gained. Hell, given the size of the Resistance fleet, if you were worried your comms were tapped you could have just sent runners to deliver the message to the captains. She also kept it secret when there were very serious reasons TO communicate it AKA stopping a mutiny.
Also: when your soldiers know why they do what they do, they can adapt their own strategies to the situation, should it change. If all they know is to go somewhere and be ordered around like robots every step of the way, the moment they have to actually react to a new situation, they are unable to fulfill their duty until they have communicated that new situation to their higher-ups.
Say, you have soldiers that are tasked with taking a hill to capture their enemy's radio communication equippement, if they only know that they are supposed to take the hill, that's all they are going to do.
If they know they are supposed to capture the radio equippement and halfway through their mission, they realize the enemy has relocated said equippement, they can actually react to that immediately instead of assaulting a now useless position on a hill.
And when your soldiers start begging you for answers, the worst thing to do is to blow them off.

But here's the funny thing: This is how SJWs think a hierarchy functions.
You have your higher-ups and they can do whatever the fuck they want to (including physical violence against their subordinates!) and they never have to explain or justify themselves to anyone below themselves.
They are unconditional, supreme rulers, above being questioned and not bound by rules. Everyone else has to scramble, to fulfill their wishes without delay. No one has the right to interfere or even just ask anything.
This isn't how SJWs perceive the military. This is how SJWs work within their own group, so they think every hierarchy works this way.
Unsurprisingly, that's how any dictatorial government has treated a hierarchy, too.

How many of the Children training in Attack of the Clones were there? Because I tell you what if the Religious Order that the Republic sucks off at every point shows up at a parents house saying "Oh hey we need to take your kid away because they got the Force, say goodbye you don't ever get to see your child again." they aren't exactly going to argue.

That is one of the reasons I soured on the setting before Soy Wars started coming out, the entire thing is a gigantic dick measuring contest between two sets of assholes.
So you're mad at the franchise for your own headcanon. Okay I guess.

I thought the Jedi kidnapped kids all the time since that's how they "recruited". Like the Jedi would go around looking for Force sensitive kids and if they found one then they'd explain to the parents/guardians and then take them away to the Jedi Temple. I swear there was an old piece of art that showed a guy in Jedi robes taking a crying kid away from his mother. Am I just misremembering shit?
Saying they kidnap children makes it sound as if Jedi were traveling around in an old cargo freighter with "Free Candy" written in Aurebesh on the side.

If they go to the parents, explain to them why it is necessary that their kid gets special education (I mean, an unsupervised Force user is dangerous after all - and could become a huge threat to a lot of people in the long run) and the parents agree ... well that's not kidnapping. Sure, the parents are going to be sad that they won't be seeing their children again, but it's still not kidnapping.
The fact that the EU has conflicts between Jedi that actually abduct children and Jedi who think that's a dick move should highlight that kidnapping was not their regular MO.
But the original point is, that this is seen as morally good. Which it isn't. It's part of the Jedi hubris that leads to their downfall. It is not seen as "morally good". It is seen as "pragmatically necessary".
 

GeneralFriendliness

A.W. "Noa" Brimley
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
This one?

View attachment 1004203

It's Mace Windu when he was taken from his parents in the short segment "Children of the Force" in the Star Wars Tales anthology series.
It was an interesting story, but that comic wasn't considered canon since it took place before issue 21 of Star Wars Tales, and all the stories before issue 21 were non-canon, parody and what-if stories that weren't even part of S-Canon unless stated otherwise. The old canon Shatterpoint story however pointed out that Windu was already an orphan when the Jedi came to his village and that they needed to ask permission of the tribe that was taking care of him.

Edit:
If these secret Skylwalker rumors are true, the trilogy is fucked.
Either, Rey is upstaged by some newcomer that happens to be a Skywalker and it invalidates her character or she is the Skywalker and it invalidates the precious TLJ theeeeeeeme of killing the past.
No matter how they'd do it, it would be a blatant and desperate attempt to recover some old fans and I hope they'll see right through it. The title of the movie alone makes me laugh.
"Rise of Skywalker", might as well have called it "Please come back old fans!"
It feels so surreal and desperate for them to suddenly want to bring back what may potentially be Luke's lost son after all this time without the slightest hint of it in any movie or Disney EU shit. Thing is I don't doubt this is real since some of the earlier leaks (which I presume were versions of the film before reshoots) implied Rey would be a Skywalker or that Mara Jade Skywalker would be a part of the film at some point. So its clear they have no idea what to do and are just throwing poorly-sharpened darts at the wall and seeing what sticks.
 
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Miller

kiwifarms.net
When did the Jedi ever kidnap any child?
They don't kidnap children, they just tell their parents that their child has a gift and it would be better for him/her to be raised by the Jedi. If they refuse, the Jedi can do a mind trick and get the kid anyway.
There was a story arc in TCW about Sheev hiring Cad Bane to steal the kids before the Jedi came to take them from their parents.
 

BScCollateral

kiwifarms.net
It's really astonishing to me that people (even stupid people like Disney Wars fans) could possibly not understand this. You don't need to have military service to get it. Any type of group enterprise where the leader isn't communicating their intentions to the people who are tasked with actually doing the work is doomed to failure.
Johnson and Kennedy have proved it is possible to hold a college degree, and yet not understand warfare well enough to write a Star Wars movie. There's something amazing in that.
 

BrunoMattei

No I am not the Cinema Snob
True & Honest Fan
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100% agree ont his, want to add another reason why in military hierarchies its very, very important your orders and reasoning are understood by your lower level commanders: Because you might die. and someone might have to take over.
If the entire Pussy-Power Resistance leadership had been wiped out, no one would know there was a plan, let alone how to execute it.


Of course for drama reasons I'm fine with Holdo, or any other fictional commander, playing secret squirrel games. The issue I have with Holdo is, as discussed, her plan didn't NEED to be secret - nothing was gained. Hell, given the size of the Resistance fleet, if you were worried your comms were tapped you could have just sent runners to deliver the message to the captains. She also kept it secret when there were very serious reasons TO communicate it AKA stopping a mutiny.
I just feel bad for Laura Dern. She's a great actress and didn't need this kind of baggage. On the plus side, I'm sure her paycheck was nice.

Johnson and Kennedy have proved it is possible to hold a college degree, and yet not understand warfare well enough to write a Star Wars movie. There's something amazing in that.
I worked with people who graduated from prestigious colleges who didn't understand how bookmarks in a browser worked, how to plug in an HDMI cable, and didn't know how to adjust their office chair.
 

qu_rahn

kiwifarms.net
How would parents know that their children are force sensitive? With a kid of Anakin's age it'd be quite obvious since they'd have faster reflexes and such, but how would you know a toddler or newborn is gifted? Is testing for midichlorian count a standard test in birthing facilities?
 

RomanesEuntDomus

Choke on these nuts
True & Honest Fan
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I just feel bad for Laura Dern. She's a great actress and didn't need this kind of baggage. On the plus side, I'm sure her paycheck was nice.



I worked with people who graduated from prestigious colleges who didn't understand how bookmarks in a browser worked, how to plug in an HDMI cable, and didn't know how to adjust their office chair.
A friend of mine worked as on-site IT-Support in a hospital. His main occupation was pushing the power button on screens, printers or PCs after medical doctors called him over their shit not working propperly.
And here's the thing: He had to come to turn on the printer for the same guy several times, even though on the phone, he always asked him to check whether it's on or not and the guy watched him turn that damn printer on every single time.

Some people are highly educated morons. They are trained to do highly complicated shit, but you can't make them understand the most basic things.
 

BrunoMattei

No I am not the Cinema Snob
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
A friend of mine worked as on-site IT-Support in a hospital. His main occupation was pushing the power button on screens, printers or PCs after medical doctors called him over their shit not working propperly.
And here's the thing: He had to come to turn on the printer for the same guy several times, even though on the phone, he always asked him to check whether it's on or not and the guy watched him turn that damn printer on every single time.

Some people are highly educated morons. They are trained to do highly complicated shit, but you can't make them understand the most basic things.
I think ego is a part of it. They think they're smarter than the common man and don't or shouldn't need to know basic things.

Hence, to get back on topic, we get movies like this.
 

ZMOT

wat
kiwifarms.net
No, no we can't because the Republic has been such an entrenched power for thousands of years that we have no idea what actual laws they have. The Old Republic did after all send people with Mind Control powers into peace talks with The Trade Federation.
yes, we can, else the society in star wars wouldn't exist, not the way it's depicted.

the police also sends trained negotiators to deal with erratic people under certain situations, this is neither "unfair" nor causes anyone to abandon the basic rules of civility and diplomacy.

it invalidates the precious TLJ theeeeeeeme of killing the past.
you mean the thing ruin johnson invalidated himself in the same fucking movie? because either yoda is an idiot for not knowing rey took the books before he burned the tree, or he burned the tree anyway to fuck with luke.
 
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