Sugar Daddies and Sugar Babies - Barely legal prostitutes in denial and their barely erectile-functioning johns

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NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
kiwifarms.net
Pt 2.
I Make $500,000 A Year—& I Have 4 Sugar Babies
Full text:
Men in my income bracket or above were looking for women with more traditional values who wanted to settle down...

So now that you've moved up the corporate ladder, how much money are you making?
"Before bonuses, $300k to $350k, and with bonuses, that varies year to year but that could go up to $500,000."
Did you find that your salary was becoming an issue when you were going through the traditional dating routes?
"I do think so. I don’t announce how much I make on dates, but it does come up in the clothes I wear and the accessories I own at a certain point. But men in my income bracket or above were looking for women with more traditional values who wanted to settle down so the guys who were available for me, sometimes they just weren’t mature enough to handle someone who was making as much money as me, or someone who was dominating her career. There were a lot of egos being wounded with the men who were left."
Can you tell me about a specific example?
"I always try to pay for my own dinner on dates even before I got into sugar dating. It was just something I had grown up with paying for my own meals and drinks. I can’t think of any particular horror stories, but I remember evenings of me pulling out my black Amex and getting a reaction. Which is silly because you shouldn’t feel shy for having high limits on your credit card."
2 of 9

Woman to woman, I have needs.

So you started sugar dating because you were working 24/7, and didn't really have time to be vetting people through traditional dating routes?
"I mean I didn’t really want it to be 24/7, but unfortunately that’s just the reality of the industry I’m in. And I signed up for it, so it’s ok. I also wasn't interested in pursuing something more serious at 32 or 33."
Then why even bother dating?
"I mean, I guess woman to woman, I have needs. [laughs]
"If I’m being truly honest, and maybe this is something my therapist would agree with, but I guess I wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I wanted to have someone who would be more than just a sexual partner, someone who would give me that companionship and conversation and be my date to events. The people I was meeting who were okay with it being really casual, it was too casual for what I wanted from a man. I want someone who when I'm free, we can hang out, we can be intimate, but we can also enjoy dinner together and have that relationship build in a way that’s more than friendly, but I don’t have to give you more of myself. I’m very career-oriented and ambitious, so I wanted someone who understood that there would always be that reservation on my side, but would also be more than someone who I met up with at 3 a.m. in the morning to have sex."
The key phrase there being 'When I'm free?'
"Exactly. It’s on my time, and that’s a little selfish, but I just want to be up front about that. I’m in a selfish frame of mind right now."
3 of 9

Right now I feel like we’re all on a similar page that I expect to have all four of them around for the holidays

Tell me about your arrangements. What was the first date you went on?
"Okay so I heard about it at the end of last year, about a couple different sites, and someone was like, you just set the expectations up front. There's no weird negotiating awkwardness. I was like, Oh I'll do this as a joke, but it’s been almost 10 months now.
I have about four sugar babies that are regular. I don't think any of them are making more than $60,000. The oldest one is 36 but apart from him everyone is under 31. 26, 27, and 31. We’re all free to date other people, and I'm very upfront about what our relationship is, but right now I feel like we’re all on a similar page that I expect to have all four of them around for the holidays."
Were you dating younger men before you started sugar dating?
"I’ve definitely dated younger men in the past because of where they are in life. They’re not looking to settle down, either. I was meeting people through traditional apps and through friends — like oh my friend has a young roommate you should meet, or hey we’re going to a concert tonight maybe you’ll meet someone at the bar, kind of those ways. But I think trying to do sugar dating on your own without a formal setup is awkward. You don’t want to offend anyone by proposing something, so I just wanted to avoid that mess. So Arrangement.com was my first time doing it officially."
What was your first experience like?
"Honestly, it was a little alarming. Just how honest the platform wants you to be and how honest the people you meet on there are. But once you get over that culture shock, it’s really refreshing to cut through the bullshit. This is what I want, this is what I can give, and either you agree to these terms or you don’t. I think just laying it on the table like a contract is helpful. Especially if you’re dealing with something that’s not traditional. It avoids hurt feelings; it avoids misunderstandings.
My first arrangement date, I was looking for a date to my friend’s engagement party. It would've been fine for me to go on my own, but I just wanted to bring someone. So I met a guy on the site, he was like 29 or 28? He was a musician. He went with me to the event and afterwards we went out to a rooftop bar and went back to my place from there. It didn't end up being an arrangement — I got a bit of cold feet, so it ended up being a one-night stand sort of situation."
4 of 9

Sometimes I can just eyeball a profile and go, well, he’s going to be needy.

Can you tell whether or not someone will work for you based on the profile?
"Sometimes I can just eyeball a profile and go, well, he’s going to be needy. They get a little too romantic, or say things like, I love cougars, and sometimes it’s clear that it’s either a fetish or some sort of romantic vision they’re hoping to gain that I'm personally not prepared to give. So I usually screen out anyone who looks like they’re talking too much about candlelight and rose petals. I just don’t have time for that.
"Or, I can tell if he’s going to hit me up for money, without really trying to form a relationship or friendship in there. That’s sometimes harder to gauge, but it's the profiles where they have a la carte menus. For x gift, for x amount of money, I will be willing to participate in certain activities. That sort of thing."
Have you ever had an experience where you felt like someone was just using you for money?
"I’ve only ever had that happen once, where after a few encounters the guy started making specific requests for things. I’m pretty generous on my own, but he was making requests and it stopped feeling like we were building a friendship. I felt more like an ATM machine."
Tell me about your primary sugar baby.
"He's 27-years-old, and he was the first one that I was very frank about. I didn’t bring him to any events with my friends, which is I think what made my first sugar dating experience a little too close to home. We just went to dinner and met up and had a conversation. He’s fun, a little immature. I don’t think think outside of our arrangement he would be like my husband or anything. We had a good time, though, and we kept hanging out and there are parts of my personality that come alive with him."
What do you mean?
"I think my work is very serious and I'm so busy all the time that it’s refreshing to be with someone who is young and lively. I think that spontaneity and the life without a plan is so different than the life I'm living, that sometimes it helps me loosen up a little bit. So that’s fun. I don’t think this is a forever thing, but the times that we're together I enjoy, and I know he gets things out of it, too, the same way I do."
So what are the terms of the arrangement?
"The terms of this arrangement are very loose. It’s like hey, I'm going to be free on Thursday around 10 or 11. Do you want to do something? I do pay for everything when we go on vacations, and his apartment lease ended at the end of June, so when he re-signed his lease I offered to take over paying the rent, but that was after a couple of months. The rent is $1800 a month."
5 of 9

If I were to give them a gift fund, I’d maybe start at $10,000 to $15,000. And then we can go bigger from there, but I think that's a nice start.

Tell me about the other three.
"The 26-year-old is also in grad school. He is young, he’s fun. The one who is 31, he works in medicine. I think he’s a resident or something so his hours are also really crazy, so I don’t see him as much. And then the 36-year-old works in business. I don’t know if maybe I’m not using the platform correctly, but I don’t have any strict terms. Everyone lives in New York, so it’s just if you text and I’m not available, I’m not available. And if I text and you’re not available, that’s how it is. I’m sure other people have more strict every Tuesdays, or once a month dates, but mine are pretty casual. It’s just easier for me to keep a group of a couple of people because my schedule can be so unpredictable.
"So the one whose rent I pay, I see him probably once a week. And the other ones, I'd say probably maybe once a month? If six weeks pass and I don't see one of them, I might give them a ring. Also sometimes I just want time for myself. Sometimes I don’t want to call one of the four guys I can call. I just want to stay home and do what I need to do. But I am pretty busy so they all know I can be challenging to get a hold of."
How much would you say you're spending on dating a month?
"For the 27-year-old, the one I’ve known the longest, for him I probably spend, maybe $6,000, or $7,000. We’ll go to events or nice dinners and I'll shell out for us to do grand things. Listen, I’m a foodie. I love to travel, so if there’s something happening, I want to do a cool VIP experience or something, he’s probably the first one I'll call because he’s fun and he’s a little more available. The other ones, it's more like a couple thousand a month."
So you're primarily spending on the experiences? Do you give them any allowances or money for other things?
"One of my girlfriends was saying I should give him a gift allowance. So he can buy me things, but I haven’t initiated that yet. That’s an idea I'm toying with."
How much would that gift allowance be?
"If I were to give them a gift fund, I’d maybe start at $10,000 to $15,000. And then we can go bigger from there, but I think that's a nice start."
6 of 9

I think every relationship has a power dynamic and my relationships are no different.

What's the most extravagant gift you've given a sugar baby?
Me and one of my sugar babies went to Switzerland last year. We flew first class, and while we were there, we took a helicopter up to see the town. We just shelled out. But I think now that I’m getting a little bit more comfortable with it, I want to start doing bigger things."
What are you thinking?
"I like international trips, so I was thinking maybe Dubai. I’ve only been for work; I’d love to do that as a tourist. Someone was mentioning the Maldives so maybe in February. Bigger trips, bigger excursions, start checking things off my bucket list that I guess I was hanging onto and now that I have arrangements, I have people who can go to them with me."
Are there any stereotypes about the sugar dating world you want to disprove?
"I think as a female sugar mama, and I hate that word, but I hate this idea that as an older woman who is accomplished and wants to pay for her arrangements, that that’s somehow deviant or abnormal. I think every relationship has a power dynamic, and my relationships are no different. We just spell it out on paper."
Would you consider this sex work?
"I certainly don’t consider it sex work. Maybe my arrangements are unusual, but they all include some sort of conversation and other date-like aspects to it. It’s never, Just take $10,000 and let’s spend the weekend together with no talking, although that can be fun of course. But I don’t think it’s sex work. I think it’s just being upfront. I mean would you call a date with someone who buys you dinner, and then you go home with him, is that you being a sex worker? I don't think so. We’re just more upfront about it. I actually think my relationships are more honest than a lot of the marriages and partnerships I see around me."
7 of 9

Do I see myself having arrangements like these when I’m 60? Probably not. But for right now, it’s a lot of fun.

What do you mean by that? That your relationships might be more honest?
"I just know some of my girlfriends, they’ll tell me things like, Oh my husband spent so much money on this thing and he didn’t consult me. I had to buy these things and had to get his approval first, or I went behind his back, I hope he doesn't see the credit card bill. Just weird things about money that create these unnecessary secrets. But I’ve had a sugar baby say, Hey, I heard this cool thing is happening. Here are the tickets, we can take a helicopter, it's going to cost a couple thousand dollars, and here's where we can eat and here's where we can stay, and we can just be upfront about it. Is that something you want to buy? There’s no hiding or manipulating or trying to convince someone. I just think with my girlfriends there’s this fear to talk about money, especially if they’re not the primary breadwinner in the relationship."
Are you finding that your sugar babies will do more of the work of planning a date?
"I think so! I think maybe because I’ve always been upfront about the fact that my time is limited, so if I'm going to dedicate my time with you, you have to make it worthwhile. Also with the dynamic of me paying for it, for them planning is a way for them to contribute to the event."
Do you think you might want something more serious in the long run?
"I wouldn’t say right now I want something more serious. Do I see myself having arrangements like these when I’m 60? Probably not. But for right now, it’s a lot of fun. But who knows? If all the people I’m with right now fall into more traditional relationships and our arrangements end, maybe I’ll be more inclined to do more traditional dating myself. I have nothing against traditional dating. I have had regular boyfriends in the past, but for now, it’s just a good time."
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I feel a sense of pride of being a woman who can afford her own life. I own the condo I'm living in. I can afford to do the things that I want.

Would you have ever considered doing the reverse? Being a sugar baby?
"I don’t think so. I have nothing against women who want to play that role, I just know myself. I’m so career driven and independent, I don’t think my pride would allow me to do it. I don’t know if I would allow myself to be on the other end of the arrangement. I respect women who do, I just don’t think it would work for me. Also, I think as a woman, especially in the time that we're living in where women's rights and feminism is so dominating the public conversation, for me it would be taking a personal step back. I would rather have a more traditional relationship if I were on the other end of the income spectrum."
So now that you're doing most of the paying, do you think there's a stigma to a woman paying on dates?
"For me there's no stigma. I feel a sense of pride of being a woman who can afford her own life. I own the condo I'm living in. I can afford to do the things that I want, so for me it’s a sense of empowerment that I can not only pay for myself — but help someone else who is not doing so well and could really just use a leg up. I actually get turned on from it, that I’m so in control.
When I was younger in my late teens and early 20s before I started really working, if someone said they were going to buy food then I would be like, okay well maybe I shouldn’t get a cocktail; if they’re going to pay for it, I can’t get something too expensive. So it’s nice now: I can get whatever I want, and I can tell other people, Hey get whatever you want. Get two drinks. Let’s get the whole bottle."
I'm A Sugar Baby—& I Expect A Gift On EVERY First Date
Full text:
At my peak, I was making around $10,000 a month, sometimes up to $15,000 or $16,000 a month.

How much have you made on Seeking Arrangement?
"I stopped doing Seeking Arrangement for a little while, so I haven't made a lot recently. At my peak, I was making around $10,000 a month, sometimes up to $15,000 or $16,000 a month. Still, I'm super frugal. I might have YSL shoes and Louboutins, but I live in an apartment with roommates, and I just put away a lot of the money I've made because I want to go back to grad school. I'm still deciding exactly what I want to do, and in the interim, I've really been able to save a lot of money. When I get $5,000, the first thing I do is go to the bank and put all the money away."
Do you pay taxes on it?
"From what I've Googled and talking with my accountant, it seems like as long as the money is a gift, and it's under $10,000, it's tax-free. I ideally don't want to get audited, but they're just gifts. It's not like I worked for someone, and they're paying me — and these guys aren't paying me through their work or anything like that. I guess people can be mad that I don't pay taxes on it, but at the same time, when someone gives you a birthday gift that's a $200 gift card, or $200 in cash, do you think, Oh, I need to claim this? For me, it's just a gift for my time, or they just want to help me out, or it's an actual gift that they're buying for me."
Tell me about your first date.
"It wasn’t a good experience. I was really nervous so I ended up having a mixed drink before meeting this guy for tea in the afternoon. I wanted to be a bit tipsy. I showed up, and he went over everything. He wanted an arrangement where he would pay $5,000 a month to see me twice a month. It felt like we were talking about clients at my company, only the company was me. He said, 'Oh, you seem wonderful. I'm also talking to this girl from NYU, and I think she would be great, but you’re so beautiful. Let’s see if we can go somewhere a little more private and kiss to see if there’s chemistry.'
"Now today, I would never do that. I wouldn’t even meet this kind of guy. But he kissed me and he tried to touch me, so I immediately pushed him away and left. I felt it was inappropriate, and the whole night I was thinking, Do I want this kind of arrangement with him? And the next day, he comes back and says, 'I'm sorry, the NYU girl is the right person to pursue this with. I wish you the best.' I remember being hurt by it, and thinking, Shoot, I thought he liked me, I thought this would be something. Come to find out months later he sends the same thing to me under a new profile."
2 of 7

Maybe I've lost out on great guys, but I won't meet someone unless they have some type of gift.

After that bad experience, did you change the way you meet up with men?
"I have a few rules. I won't meet someone unless they offer some type of gift. And, of course, I only meet them in a public place. Some girls don't have these rules, and more power to them, and maybe I've lost out on great guys. My view is, Hey, you’re supposed to be a wealthy person, you’re supposed to be serious about this. If you’re not willing to give me taxi money or something like that, then you’re not that serious."
How do you get them to agree to that?
"I have a thing that I say that shows that I’m really serious, and I basically put the ball in their court. I say, 'I'm happy to meet, but I have a very serious job. I can't waste time. I would appreciate a gift to show sincerity.' The ones who say no, I don’t see. The ones who say yes, and I like them, then I will see."
How has the gifts rule affected your dates?
"I've been able to find really generous men. I know it sounds crazy, but some guys do want to sit down with you and have a drink and give you $1,000. And it's just a gift to meet — absolutely nothing else. I've been on so many dates where if they're willing to give a gift, I'll go and meet them anywhere because it's free money.
"Then, I see how I feel, and hear what kind of arrangement they're thinking about. Maybe we'll go on a second date, and there will be dinner, and sometimes it will be followed by something more intimate. I treat it like normal dating at that point — see how I feel, see what I'm comfortable with. At the end of the day, the guys I want to have an arrangement with are the ones who are looking for chemistry. They're not looking for one 'wham bam thank you.' They actually want to get to know me. There are some people I have true chemistry with, and other ones, it's like, Thank you so much for the gift. I really appreciated meeting you. And I don't talk to them again. And sometimes, the guys don't reach out afterwards."
3 of 7

The worst was $50. The best was $2,000 and a pair of Louboutins.

What have you gotten as a gift on the first date?
"The worst was $50. The best was $2,000 and a pair of Louboutins."
Wait, how did that happen?
"Basically, I suggested we meet at a cafe which was inside an expensive department store. After we met I said, 'Oh, I want to look at this pair of shoes.' And before I know it, boom, he pulled out his credit card. I was like, Yay this plan worked."
Is there anything you do before you meet your sugar daddies in real life?
"Before I meet them I try to find out who they are. I use a few apps, like Truecaller, or I'll Google a number to find out who a person is. If I can’t find that out I’ll ask more questions. To be honest I've never run into a serious issue with someone. I get a lot of messages so I go through and see which ones seem promising. The ones that don't seem promising, I just block them."
How many dates do you go on a week?
"I go on anywhere from three to 10 dates a week. It’s usually in the evenings when I'm done with work, and I keep them all straight in my calendar. I've had days when I've gone on five dates in a row — one date to the next to the next. Usually I'll just be meeting people for a drink. It sort of becomes a job, but if you know how to do this correctly it can be lucrative when you're young. It's about youth and beauty and intelligence — a lot of these guys went to Harvard or Yale or Stanford, and you have to be intelligent because if not, they might want to sleep with you, but they won't want anything long term."
4 of 7

Before this, I never had a pair of Louboutins... and here I am now, with five pairs of Louboutins.

Why do you think these guys are on Seeking Arrangement?
"I've had an arrangement with a guy who just liked the idea of it. He's someone who likes to give gifts, and he liked the idea of having a special gift for me every time we saw each other. He thought it was more fun and less serious than dating. So with him, it felt like meeting a guy from OkCupid or something, except I got an awesome gift like a YSL bag every time I hung out with him.
"For the older guys, I think it's a mix. Some of them really want companionship. They just want a pretty girl to hang out with and talk to. They feel like they're helping you out with school and work and a future. Then there are the ones who are married, and they want a younger version of their wives, which sounds kind of weird. But some of them get so nostalgic about their earlier dates."
Why are you on Seeking Arrangement?
"I mean, the money. And, I don't know. I love it. I've been able to travel a lot — I've been to Europe, Miami, Vegas. I have met some really prominent people on that site, and I've been able to meet some really cool people and have amazing stories to share with my friends. Before this, I never had a pair of Louboutins. I never had a pair of Valentinos or Ferragamos, and here I am now, with five pairs of Louboutins. It’s fun to have those things when you’re young and living in New York."
5 of 7

With this type of dating, it's the same exact guy, and at least in this case they pay my rent for three months.

Do you go on any normal dates?
"I'm still on normal dating sites like Bumble and OkCupid and Match. But I was dating these hedge fund Harvard, 32-year-old guys, hoping they would want something serious, but they just wanted to have fun. You date, hook up, and never hear from them. With this type of dating, it's the same exact guy who just wants to have fun, and at least in this case they pay my rent for three months.
"Obviously that's not every guy on there. There are also a lot of wealthy guys who are just lonely, and they want a girl to come over and cuddle. I know people are going to think that's a lie, but it's happened to me."
Have you ever stepped away from sugar dating?
"Around November, I started getting busy with my salaried job, and I kept finding 'salt,' or guys that were salty or fake. Salt looks just like sugar but doesn't taste like sugar — so these are guys who are pretending to be sugar daddies. But I can figure it out by talking to them for a minute. I ran into a lot of that in November, and I wasn't making the kind of money I was making before. So I got off the site and didn't use it as much, but then all of a sudden work slowed down, and boom, I'm back on the site. It's just like, you're looking at your cool items, and the things you have, and you're looking at your bank account, and you just think, Hmmm, I could go on a few more dates and change this situation. It's hard to stay away from free money.
"But the cost is that it's stalling me. It's time-consuming. You have to go on the site, send text messages, see if they're legit, and that takes up time. Plus, a lot of them have drama. They all say, 'I'm not looking for a girl with drama,' but they are the ones that have a ton of drama and you have to deal with that.
"There are also times when you're more intimate with somebody, and you're like, did I do that because of the money? Or did I do that because I actually like this person? Luckily whenever I've started to feel uncomfortable, I've been able to get out of that situation."
How often do you check in on how you're feeling?
"I’m constantly checking in all the time. When you push your limits, you start to think, Are you crossing the line? And I’ve told myself from the beginning that if I ever feel like I've gone too far, then I'm done."
6 of 7

You need to remember that your time is the one thing you can't get back.

What’s the best sugar daddy experience you’ve had?
"There was a man I'd never met who sent me $20,000 over the course of four months. He sent me books in the mail and we would discuss the books. He just liked the whole mentor aspect. So I was his online sugar baby. Eventually he found someone who was close to where he lived, and that was the end of that. But obviously, he was a super generous, and a really nice guy. Definitely my favorite."
Looking back, what would you tell your younger self before she started sugar dating?
"It sounds so glamorous and yes, my experiences have been glamorous. It’s nice to eat at Daniel and Per Se and have the gifts and the money. But the one thing you have to realize, whatever these guys are doing, they're paying for your time, and you need to remember that your time is the one thing you can't get back.
"You want to make sure you have your feet firmly on the ground and know what you want to do. Because I have lost myself along this way. There were six months when I wasn't serious about anything. I was just making money and not really doing anything. I wasn't focusing on if I want to go to grad school. And a lot of these guys will say they want to be your mentor and in some cases that’s happened, but for the most part it’s all talk and it never becomes anything. You meet them and you think, I’m going to be the next whatever. But they never really help you."
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
kiwifarms.net
Pt 3. Final
I'm A Former Sugar Baby — This Is Why I Stopped
Full text:
"I’ve always kind of liked older men, and I have a fantasy of being with a much older guy, so it didn’t really scare me that much sexually."

What types of messages did you get when you were on the site?
"I got all sorts of guys. I got a guy with a foot fetish who wrote a long paragraph asking me to send him my dirty socks. He told me he would pay for my socks and buy me new socks in exchange. He offered me like $10 for my socks. I didn’t reply, because it wasn’t something I was willing to go to the post office for, but it was an icebreaker for when I met other people.
"I also got long paragraphs from guys explaining who they were and what their situation was — if they were married, why they were on the site, stating exactly what they were willing to pay, exactly what they were expecting. I was seeing anywhere from $300 to $2,000 a date, and probably all of them were expecting sex. Then there were also messages like, ‘Hey what’s up.’ I was more inclined to respond to someone who wrote a custom note, though.
"A lot of them were married, but that was a deal breaker for me. I’m all for open relationships, but I don’t feel comfortable being a part of something a guy is keeping from his wife."
Were you nervous about meeting the men off the site?
"I’ve always kind of liked older men, and I have a fantasy of being with a much older guy, so it didn’t really scare me that much sexually. I was more scared of meeting strangers, and I was scared of my family and friends finding out about it. A lot of people use fake names, so there’s no real way to verify them. I would always exchange messages with them for a day or two, and then I would figure out if they gave me a Google Voice number or not. If they gave me a fake number, then I wouldn’t give them my real number, because there wasn’t any mutual trust involved. I’d also require a picture before meeting.
"For first dates, I always made sure I was meeting people in a public place. I was definitely nervous about the first few dates, and the very first one I went on was kind of strange. I met him at a hotel bar lobby after I went on an interview for a corporate job. We got a drink at the Hyatt next to Grand Central, and we just talked about what I wanted to do with my career. He was very normal, nothing to write home about, and nothing to be scared of. But it was a little awkward, and I think he could feel it, too. He gave me $200 in 'cab money,' quote, unquote, but after that I didn’t hear from him."
2 of 6

"I asked him if he was married, and he said, 'Are you going to hate me if I tell you the truth?' And I was like, well, that tells me the truth."

Can you tell me about your first arrangement?
"I first met him for a drink at Rockefeller Center, and we hit it off. I don’t like talking about arrangements face-to-face, because it’s uncomfortable for me, so we had a normal date, and he gave me $50 after the date — actual cab money. We then texted about it afterward to discuss what the terms would be. He asked me what I was expecting, and I said I would probably want around $1,000 per date. I had read blogs and Googled it, and he said okay. I thought I had given him too low a number. But we agreed on that, and I started meeting up with him every other week or so at a hotel to sleep with him, and he would give me $1,000.
"He was completely normal personality-wise and not creepy. He lived in Westchester but slept in the city a lot because of work. In the end, I cut it off because he told me he was married. He told me he wasn’t married in the beginning, but he was so discreet. Like, I didn't like being seen in public with the guys from Seeking Arrangement, but he was more secretive than I was. I was 22, he was maybe 42, and if we had been seen together it wouldn’t have been the end of the world, but he acted like it would be. So I asked him if he was married, and he said, 'Are you going to hate me if I tell you the truth?' And I was like, well, that tells me the truth.
"That was me realizing why he was normal. I’ve come to learn that most of the socially normal ones are married."
Tell me about the other men you met.
"There was another guy who I sort of developed feelings for. He was a film producer, and he was bi-coastal, around 40. It was very, very natural for us, and after a while I asked him to stop giving me money because it felt weird. It felt like he was my real friend, and we even went away a couple of times together. But he kind of ghosted me, and I haven’t heard from him in a year.
"There were also just a lot of people who wouldn’t give you a real name, and you couldn’t really track them down. One time, this guy I met over coffee Ubered me to his apartment. He told me he was going to give me $2,000, and that he had some weird PayPal account. I gave him my email but never got the money. I felt completely used and humiliated, and I texted him like 500 times afterwards. This was a younger guy, too — so I kept wondering, 'Why couldn’t you just go out and find a girlfriend?' That was the one time I felt really stupid."
That's horrible. Was this early on?
"Yeah, it was early on, and that was the only time it happened. I never accepted PayPal again — it was just cash that was the safest. And no later payments."
It seems like you view this more as sex work than the other sugar babies. Is that true?
"I would agree that this is sex work. I’m not against sex work — I think it should be legal. And yes, sites like Seeking Arrangement could empower sex workers, because they can choose their own clients and decide how far they want to go. But in general, sex work would be safer if these men couldn’t be so anonymous."
3 of 6

"There was one guy who gave me $25,000 and I only met him three times ever."

How much have you made off the platform?
"I made over $100,000 in the three years I was doing it on and off. After getting on Seeking Arrangement, I quit my retail job and focused just on that for two months. I was making around $12,000 a month.
"In addition to that, there was one guy who gave me $25,000, and I only met him three times ever. But he gave it to me all at once in three separate bank transfers. It’s crazy. I met him when I was working at the shoe store. We got a drink at a hotel bar, then we had a date at a hotel and we had sex, and he gave me $1,500. After that, we were just texting, and I told him how I really wanted to leave my job, but I couldn't find a way out because my confidence was low, and I had no money — even though I did, I was just spending it all. He was like, 'Okay, I’ll give you a break. I’ll take care of you until you find out what you want to do in life. How about I give you $25,000? Would that be okay for you to take a couple months off?'
"So he transferred me the money, and we met up two times after that, and we never met up again. I know it sounds unbelievable — it was the least amount of work I’ve ever had to do. I Googled him, and he’s a billionaire or something, which makes sense. He didn’t seem to really care at all.
"That was the time when I started shopping like crazy."
4 of 6

"I liked the feeling of going into a store and being able to buy whatever I wanted. I used to have daydreams about that as a kid."

How did sugar babying affect your spending habits?
"Growing up, I was never poor. I grew up in an upper middle class family, but my parents were always strict with me, and I had a jealousy problem with my friends who had more than I did. When I finally had all this money, I just went to Saks and Barneys and spent thousands of dollars, because I had a job that was paying me a base salary, and then I was making money on top of it. So I would just spend it all. I liked the feeling of going into a store and being able to buy whatever I wanted. I used to have daydreams about that as a kid.
What you would buy?
"I got a Chanel Boy Bag, and that was like $5,200. I have a YSL bag, some really nice shoes and clothes that I don’t wear. I would just go shopping and feel this high. I'd get stuff I didn’t need, and it would end up sitting in my closet.
"I did have a desire to stop, though. I wanted to stop. I decided to start looking for a new job, and someone told me to make sure my social media was okay before I started looking. But instead of worrying about social media, I was more worried about Seeking Arrangement. So I decided to make a guy’s profile, just to see if I could find myself, and it was really scary because I found myself right away. I couldn’t have messaged myself, but I could see everyone — I even recognized one or two people I’ve met in real life. It was alarming. So then I deleted my profile, and I’m still not on it."
5 of 6

"I’m not going to cushion it anymore — I’ve realized that I don’t really need that cushion."

Did you have trouble adjusting to life after Seeking Arrangement?
"When I stopped using the site, it was a sudden change in lifestyle, and I didn’t really know how to stop shopping. I didn’t save any of the money, either — I had a couple thousand saved but that went away quickly.
I’ve definitely managed my shopping a little more since then. I’m much more careful when I’m making these purchases, though. I guess I have more a conscience when I’m shopping for anything that is outside my price range because I know that money is not going to be replaced until my next paycheck comes. But I’m not going to cushion it anymore — I’ve realized that I don’t really need that cushion, even though I'm not saving anything."
What was the most expensive thing you bought recently?
"I haven’t spent more than $400 or $500 on a single item in a year. The nicest thing I bought recently was a pair of Chloe shoes, and even though I wasn’t actually in a place to buy them financially, and I probably shouldn’t have, it felt good that they were mine. Like, truly mine."
Truly yours? Did it feel different when you were shopping with Seeking Arrangement money?
"When I was on Seeking Arrangement, I could throw money in the air, and it wouldn’t matter because I could just make it back. But it feels better now when I buy things for myself because I don’t have to think about how I was able to buy them. Sometimes, when I was on Seeking Arrangement, I would think to myself, 'If this salesperson ever knew how I got this money...' It would make me feel really shitty about myself afterwards. Buying those things felt really good when it happened, but now when I look at that Chanel bag, I just think of all these men."
6 of 6

"[Sugar dating] makes you feel like you need a guy to push you further in your career when you could really probably do it yourself."

It sounds like you regret doing it.
"I do feel regret. I needed to find a passion on my own and succeed independently, and I feel like I lost sight of that over the past few years, because it steered me away from my career goal. Like, sometimes, you believed that these sugar daddies were being a mentor and really trying to help you. But all these men were just objectifying you."
What do you mean?
"I went on a couple dates with this guy who was very into being a mentor, and loved giving interview advice. We didn’t do anything sexual, and he kept saying he would introduce me to this person and this person and this person, saying he would get me a job. But he never followed through with any of the connections. It made the whole thing feel phony to me, and it can bring down your confidence a little bit. It makes you feel like you need a guy to push you further in your career when you could really probably do it yourself.
"Like, they’re good at giving interview advice, but nobody is really going to save me, and I shouldn’t think that they’re going to."
Do you wish you had done anything differently?
"If I could talk to myself back then, I would tell her to do it, but when she gets $25,000 to save it, get a job right away, and not be a crazy spending person. Do it for a very brief period of time, and then stop right away.
"I have this secret now that I’m bottling up a little bit, and I wish I had gone about life the normal way. Not the normal way, but just in a way that empowered me a little bit more. I feel like I gave up on my career so early — I wanted to work in fashion — just because I was working in retail after graduation. I don't know why I gave up on that so quickly."
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
kiwifarms.net
Sorry to post so many in a row, but here are some TikToks I found while gathering unrelated things. These girls show up everywhere now that I know what "accountant" means.


 

KifflomKween

Ay up mi cow
kiwifarms.net
Like, sometimes, you believed that these sugar daddies were being a mentor and really trying to help you. But all these men were just objectifying you."
"[Sugar dating] makes you feel like you need a guy to push you further in your career when you could really probably do it yourself."
It makes you feel like you need a guy to push you further in your career when you could really probably do it yourself.
"Like, they’re good at giving interview advice, but nobody is really going to save me, and I shouldn’t think that they’re going to."
Do you wish you had done anything differently?
"If I could talk to myself back then, I would tell her to do it, but
But, she learnt nothing. What an idiot.
"I have this secret now that I’m bottling up a little bit, and I wish I had gone about life the normal way. Not the normal way, but just in a way that empowered me a little bit more. I feel like I gave up on my career so early
You mean sex work isn't empowering? Shocker!
 
Last edited:

Internet's Boyfriend

Whoa.
kiwifarms.net
Reading this thread makes me realize how much modern feminism is setting back women's right.

Early game bonus with massive debuffs later on.
Today I went to Refinery29 to see what I could find.
I'm A Sugar Baby & I Spend $22,157 A Year On Beauty Services
Full text:
Age: 24
Occupation: Sugar Baby
Location: Los Angeles, California
Allowance: $1,000 a month, plus any beauty-related expenses.
Rent: $2,400. My sugar daddy recently moved me to a nicer apartment and pays half the rent.
I worked a lot of side jobs in the restaurant business doing promo modeling, but in the last year when I started taking clients on Arrangement, that's helped me pay my bills and make more of a living for myself. I've spoken with other sugar daddies in the past, but as of last spring, I only have one. He works in finance. I wouldn't say he gives me rules, but he'll want me to look a little more polished for certain events, which I get — I want to keep his image in tact as well. I have a professional stylist I use for special occasions like art galas, company parties, or large dinners. We do about three to four of those a month, depending on the time of year.
Pretty much any beauty expenses that have any relation to what we're doing that day — be it an event or date — he'll reimburse me. The fact that he's willing to pay for it is nice, and being able to try different types of beauty services has given me a lot of confidence. It's difficult for us women to live in a world where outward beauty is the only thing people see… or want to see.
Hair:
I'm blonde and my hair is about mid-length, so depending on what event we're going to, I'll play around with different extensions and the length, color, and wave of them. I'll usually do clip-ins from the Hair Shop ($175-$205, depending on style). In the summer, I get them sewn in so I can go to the beach (~$1500). When I'm just running around and need to get a quick blowout, I'll go to Drybar ($45, about twice a month).
For events, my favorite look, and his as well, is when my hair is down with extensions or slicked back in a pony. I’ll use GlamSquad ($50 for a blowout), but I also have a personal stylist who does my haircut ($125, 4x a year) and color ($220, every 6-8 weeks). I won't do any crazy hair colors — that usually doesn't fly with any large or executive CEO events that we go to. Again, my hair needs to mirror his image, which is very classic.
Makeup:
I'll use GlamSquad ($75 for makeup) or my stylist will come over to do my makeup ($85), but that's only for special occasions three to four times a month. Other times, I'll do my own makeup. For products, I like going to Lord & Taylor, Bobbi Brown, Chanel counters — places like that. I’ll go into Sephora if I'm looking for a few quick things.
Grooming:
I live in L.A., so I’m a beach girl. I still get my legs waxed at the European Wax Center ($76), but I started getting laser hair removal elsewhere about a month after meeting him, which he pays for. Each laser treatment is $300. So far, I’ve had close to 15 sessions. It’s very painful! I don’t love it.
Nails:
That's a big standard in the sugar baby society — to keep your nails looking nice. I get pedicures ($50) every two weeks and then my nails once or twice a month, depending if I'm getting acrylics ($30-40) or shellac ($30). I keep my nails fairly long, in a square shape, and I'll do a nude colors — no glitter or French tips. He's never told me "no" to the French tips, but I’ve heard him say to other people that they look tacky, so I took a mental note.
Other:
I like to keep a base tan year-round no matter what, so I do still go to tanning beds ($40/month). But if I'm going to a big event, I’ll get a spray tan ($60), but that's only happened a few times since we started dating, though.
I’ve started to do preventative botox on my forehead and crows feet, which costs about $750 a session. I've done it twice, and then we've been discussing me getting my lips done as well. But those are all more of my personal preferences and at the end of the day, it's the kind of look I'm looking for. If he's up for paying for it, then great.
I'm usually someone who's like "you do you" because I honestly do not care what other people do, but holy shit imagine doing all this for a man who won't even marry you.
I like to keep a base tan year-round no matter what, so I do still go to tanning beds ($40/month).
This bitch is gonna look like leather in a couple of years(if she doesn't already.)
I’ve started to do preventative botox on my forehead and crows feet, which costs about $750 a session.
Maybe you wouldn't need preventative botox if you didn't use tanning beds.
and then we've been discussing me getting my lips done as well. But those are all more of my personal preferences and at the end of the day, it's the kind of look I'm looking for. If he's up for paying for it, then great.
She says it's the look she wants but she also says "we've been discussing" lip fillers so it makes me wonder if it's really her choice or if he's kind of negging her or otherwise suggesting that she should get them done.

This all sounds so soulless. Like I feel drained just reading it.
maybe I’d get a nose job out of it or something like that. Maybe he would give me a discount, or his colleagues could do some type of Botox.
Plastic surgery seems to be a recurring theme with sugar babies, gee I wonder why.
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
kiwifarms.net
I found more on TikTok while looking for unrelated content for another thread.
The "Sex work is real work and it's a better job than yours and you're just a hater"-genre.


(I think this one ^ has fetal alcohol syndrome)

The "We're woke and rich and free!"-genre


 
Last edited:

KifflomKween

Ay up mi cow
kiwifarms.net
I found more on TikTok while looking for unrelated content for another thread.
The "Sex work is real work and it's a better job than yours and you're just a hater"-genre.
View attachment 2072066
View attachment 2072115
(I think this one ^ has fetal alcohol syndrome)
View attachment 2072101
View attachment 2072102
The "We're woke and rich and free!"-genre
View attachment 2072067
Lol at the "respect your fellow women" chick who then goes on a tangent about women who work minimum wage jobs like retail. Hoes really think they are better than all other women dont they.
 

Owlflaps

The sound of your impending doom
kiwifarms.net
Lol at the "respect your fellow women" chick who then goes on a tangent about women who work minimum wage jobs like retail. Hoes really think they are better than all other women dont they.

Responsible women work towards a stable future and a job like retail doesn't last forever. It's literally a transition towards a stable career. Hoes are entitled, disposable, and wonder why they're broke in a couple years.
 

Devyn

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I found more on TikTok while looking for unrelated content for another thread.
The "Sex work is real work and it's a better job than yours and you're just a hater"-genre.
View attachment 2072066
View attachment 2072115
(I think this one ^ has fetal alcohol syndrome)
View attachment 2072101
View attachment 2072102
The "We're woke and rich and free!"-genre
View attachment 2072067
Screenshot_20210409-085902.png
Screenshot_20210409-085906.png
The more these degenerates use "Karen" as an insult the more it will start being viewed as a compliment lol

I feel extremely sorry for any children this woman has, they're going to suffer as much for her shitty decisions as she will :(
 

Devyn

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You sure that's a woman, bruh?
Not 100% sure actually lol, there's something "off" about her face (aside from those preposterous fake eyebrows). The forehead is weird, and that wide of a gap--proportionately--between the base of the nose and upper lip is pretty masculine, you almost never see a gap that big in women unless they've gotten a nose job, it doesn't look right. Reminds me of Ready to Glare:
ready-to-glare-1.jpg
Also WTF is this, some kind of botched cheek implant?
Screenshot_20210409-085902~2.png
Whatever it is, it grosses me out.
 

NoReturn

CEO Wash & Smash llc.
kiwifarms.net
Oh no thread, you don't get to rest:








 

KifflomKween

Ay up mi cow
kiwifarms.net
Sorry for the looooong delay! I finally found the time to sift through Seeking and AM.

I got some interesting fish.

Let's call him Steve. He's from Seeking, and he's quite the chatterbox. Briefly, he's married, not poly, his wife doesn't know an is also "going through the change", which he thinks is a legit reason for chasing barely legal pussy.
1.PNG2.PNG3.PNG4.PNG

(Censoring his name and pic because I don't want anyone spooking my cow).

Let's break down his wall of text.

Hello [my username]!! Ok, deep breath and here goes! Hope the best 1st impression ever!

I hope you’re well and find this mail (and my profile) refreshingly and different (in a better way) and decent, to any potential time waster shall we say. I hope they stand out for the right reasons and is better than many, without sounding immodest, as that is not me. I’m only looking for ONE girl here. Perhaps someone sick of boys or would be men, who wants a real one! But to treat each other equally, properly and decently so.
Because sugar relationships are all about equality, amirite?
Will I be his ONE True and Honest girl? We'll see!
I have described my personality and circumstances a little in my profile. I live in York and my job allows for regular ‘discreet’ opportunities to meet and be away.
A man who takes his job seriously.
I believe in mutual honesty from the start, so you’ll see that I am married and no, she doesn’t know.
:story:
That’s got that bit out of the way for which it is important to be honest I think even in this scenario, so we know where we stand.
Meaning = you will just be the mistress.
Yes, I know there will be some who would call that hypocritical and I accept that. For me, is partly about enjoying female company. I’m open minded as to what I might be looking for from this both socially and/or physically....I am, as per my profile, selective and not promiscuous. While hating the phrases ‘no strings fun’ and ‘friends with benefits’, I would be interested in either with the right lady - preferably long term. It’s really see how it goes, but a definite arrangement, but I hope with a twist as in a specially close friendship in that context (secret girlfriend).
He's old and doesn't feel like chasing, so he'll take what he can get.
I have been messed around (or worse) a number of time’s now, including having placed my trust in people I thought I was getting to know well (but never actually met anyone yet despite that always being my wish). I was quite hurt a couple of times and have questioned myself a lot, but I still think there may be a genuine and decent lady for me.
And yet, here you go again :story: old dog something something.
I love the female perspective in any sense and this would most definitely NOT just be about the obvious. Should we both attain a good connection beforehand (through messages, conversation etc) and during, then this could also be about exploring my sexuality further, likewise helping you to enjoy/explore your sensuality/maybe even fantasies and mind.
Notice how he says "exploring my sexuality further", and then mentions "my" sexuality almost as a sidenote.
This is totally honest; it genuinely has been well over a year and a half now for me physically (she is going through the change so to speak).
:story: oh Steve you fucking asshole.
But this is about more than fulfilling that need,
of course it is. You also want your ego massaged.
fulfilling it with someone nice and decent (and open minded), on whatever basis we are both happy with, would be great. When it comes to the physical side, I would like to make love / have sex with somebody and not to someone,
Do you mean "with someone and not to somebody"?? Freudian slip??
certainly not robotically and basically treating it all really as a normal date, and the social and / or naughty parts both being fully natural.
I bet he'll tell me how about his wife's unenthusiastic starfish sex.
I aim to be very selective. Life’s too short;
It sure is when you are 57.
as long as we are very discreet and understanding, it would be nice to get on with someone on my wavelength.
Meaning= someone who agrees with me on everything unlike my boring nagging wife, and too young, damaged and stupid to know any better.
What do you think in theory? Happy to share my pics and then I’d just want you to be honest. If you liked them great, if not then just say and no hard feelings. I’m going to let my risqué innuendo kick in here briefly (I’m behaving myself for now!). if you do like my photos then the hard feelings won’t be there, feeling something hard in due course may be!! 😉
ugh.
I'll request the pics and share them here with his face censored.
Please tell me more about you of course, not just what you think to this. Anything that you share or tell me would always be treated in confidence and regarded as a privilege. I would never abuse that trust and all I ask is the same.

I’ve rambled on enough but as you can hopefully tell, i do like good and hopefully articulate, conversation. I’m as happy on something like WhatsApp messenger as on here.
Great, because I ain't giving you my phone number.
Thank you for bearing with me. Take care and I hope we are on the same page and can really get to know each other and have some fun along the way

Steve xx
I bet we will Steve :)

Now Steve's profile.
profile.PNG

Ashley Madison coming soon.
 

Devyn

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I believe in mutual honesty from the start, so you’ll see that I am married and no, she doesn’t know.
This is totally honest; it genuinely has been well over a year and a half now for me physically (she is going through the change so to speak).
:story: oh Steve you fucking asshole.
But this is about more than fulfilling that need,
These men are so fucking gross and entitled, seriously--having his sexual desires met with another person is a "need" and fully excuses cheating (not that I necessarily believe his claim that she wasn't sleeping with him, mind you), but if his wife fucked around because sex with him was awful and left her feeling used and miserable he'd say she was a whore who should have just bought a vibrator. I hate the double standard so many men hold, where they expect women to have perfect control over their own urges at all times, but think men should just be able to give in to every sexual impulse that strikes whenever possible. Lust is considered one of the seven deadly sins for a reason, and it applies to both sexes equally; men who refuse to control themselves in that way are like animals and it's pathetic
 

KifflomKween

Ay up mi cow
kiwifarms.net
Hmmm. Yes. I hate this. I hate this very much. 🤔
Oh god, and here's a bunch of retards acting like it's "empowering, queer, anti-capitalist" again.
🤮
>"i want to look super artificial and super feminine"
This whole mentality in a nutshell. Looking like a blowup doll =/= looking feminine. Feminism my ass. These hoes are all mysogynists.
 

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