Suicide -

[Christ-Chan]

I was wondering if I can get you guys' thoughts on suicide, and since is, after all, the "Deep Thoughts" forum I'm expecting something more involved than just a singly word response like "cowardly" or however you chose to minimize the issue.

As always I won't state my personal opinion on the OP, but these are the main parts of the question I'd like to see debated:
-Does every person have the right to decide whether or not to continue with his/her life?
-Is it disrespectful to the survivors or should one accept that others chose the path that is right for them?
-Is suicide ever "the right choice?"
-When is a person allowed to make "the choice"?

 

[LM 697]

-Does every person have the right to decide whether or not to continue with his/her life?

They should have the right, yes.

-When is a person allowed to make "the choice"?

Whenever they want, technically.

-Is suicide ever "the right choice?"

In my opinion, no, unless it's something like doctor assisted suicide, which is similar but different.


"Life is wonderful. It's a gift to be alive, to see the sun and breathe the air. And there isn't really anything else." - Michael Crichton

 

[Some JERK]

-Does every person have the right to decide whether or not to continue with his/her life?

any person can take their own life almost at will. you can't punish dead people. these two things make the question of "rights" irrelevant.

-Is it disrespectful to the survivors or should one accept that others chose the path that is right for them?

well that's the real question. people always say that suicide is "selfish" but i think it's more selfish to take someone's mental anguish that lead to them ending their own lives and make it about you and your mental anguish over the fact that they're gone.

-Is suicide ever "the right choice?"

that greatly depends on your reasons for committing suicide. if you're doing it because you're sad or depressed, then personally, i say no. It's a somewhat tired saying but it's true; it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. and it's not even a solution since it doesn't fix the problem. the opposite of "depressed" or "sad" is not "dead". If you're doing it because you're in pain that you know for sure is never ever going to end, or if you're already going to die, but just slowly and horribly, then yes... by all means do what you have to do. We can't change the fact that we're all going to die, but sometimes we can change whether or not we suffer as we die.

-When is a person allowed to make "the choice"?

well since nobody can really stop you, i'd say that you're allowed to do it at any moment. there are prisoners in solitary confinement who have ended their own lives even though they were naked in a completely empty room. if you want to die you can.

 

[Christ-Chan]

-Does every person have the right to decide whether or not to continue with his/her life?

any person can take their own life almost at will. you can't punish dead people. these two things make the question of "rights" irrelevant.

-Is it disrespectful to the survivors or should one accept that others chose the path that is right for them?

well that's the real question. people always say that suicide is "selfish" but i think it's more selfish to take someone's mental anguish that lead to them ending their own lives and make it about you and your mental anguish over the fact that they're gone.

-Is suicide ever "the right choice?"

that greatly depends on your reasons for committing suicide. if you're doing it because you're sad or depressed, then personally, i say no. It's a somewhat tired saying but it's true; it's a permanent solution to a temporary problem. and it's not even a solution since it doesn't fix the problem. the opposite of "depressed" or "sad" is not "dead". If you're doing it because you're in pain that you know for sure is never ever going to end, or if you're already going to die, but just slowly and horribly, then yes... by all means do what you have to do. We can't change the fact that we're all going to die, but sometimes we can change whether or not we suffer as we die.

-When is a person allowed to make "the choice"?

well since nobody can really stop you, i'd say that you're allowed to do it at any moment. there are prisoners in solitary confinement who have ended their own lives even though they were naked in a completely empty room. if you want to die you can.

I really appreciate your thoughtful and extensive answer.

 

[Some JERK]

I really appreciate your thoughtful and extensive answer.

Not a problem at all. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the very questions you've asked. I've lost a couple of people because they took their own lives. At first you're so very angry and sad. you miss them. you'll always miss them. but you do start thinking about it beyond your own hurt. Maybe you don't ever really understand, and you always wish that you could've done something different. you didn't tell them what you really felt (none of us do, because it's socially awkward) but you wonder if you had been able to, if it would've made any difference.

i think the one thing that most of us should always try to remember is that we're more important than we think we are. People feel things about us that we're not aware of, that we might never be aware of.

Take Chris for example. yeah, i come here to bag on him. it's entertaining, and his bullshit is also entertaining. I don't like Chris, but i'd whiteknight the fuck outta that dude if he was ever in serious trouble. If i saw Chris getting his ass beat in public because he did something stupid, i'd jump in (and not to join in on the beating either.)

my point is, i think a lot of people here care about Chris more than they let on, and certainly more than Chris knows or realizes. and if that can be true of Chris, then think about how true it is for people who aren't ridiculously selfish, childish dickholes.

 

[Christ-Chan]

Not a problem at all. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the very questions you've asked. I've lost a couple of people because they took their own lives. At first you're so very angry and sad. you miss them. you'll always miss them. but you do start thinking about it beyond your own hurt. Maybe you don't ever really understand, and you always wish that you could've done something different. you didn't tell them what you really felt (none of us do, because it's socially awkward) but you wonder if you had been able to, if it would've made any difference.

i think the one thing that most of us should always try to remember is that we're more important than we think we are. People feel things about us that we're not aware of, that we might never be aware of.

[faggot]This part made me genuinely cry [/faggot]

 

[The Hunter]

I've had some trouble with this sort of thing as well. Thankfully, I didn't hurt myself too bad, and the few wounds I had healed up. Had I just given up, I wouldn't have learned. Even then, I'm too curious to let myself just die. The thought of tomorrow has always intrigued me, and that's one of the things that keeps me going. It's one of the reasons I like science fiction and science and technology itself. To think that one day, I'll be alive to witness so many bright, wonderful things. If I just kept living in the past, I'd have given up a long time ago. And even when I look back and get depressed, that little voice in my head keeps telling me to go on, no matter how much I dwell on my own mistakes and inadequacies. But that's just me. I'm one out of billions of people on this earth, and no one thinks exactly the same as someone else. So to answer your questions,

-Does every person have the right to decide whether or not to continue with his/her life?

That's not exactly something in one's own control. If you feel depressed, you can't exactly tell yourself to stop unless you know you're faking it for whatever awful reason there is for someone to fake that sort of thing. When people succumb to their emotions, they don't think. They just act. A person has the right to feel that way as much as others have the right to interfere and try to stop them. What happens past that is up to fate.

-Is it disrespectful to the survivors or should one accept that others chose the path that is right for them?

I personally wouldn't call suicide the right path. Some, especially in the Christian faith, believe our lives are on rails, that there is a right and wrong path and that fate is set in motion not by one's actions but by the will of a higher being. In my opinion, we're the ones who manipulate our own faith. Life is a room with five doors. We choose which door to open, but we don't get to say what's on the other side. While I don't approve of the course of action, one has to understand that nobody just chooses to kill themselves any day of the week. They go down a path that beats them into submission and drives them to surrender. Again, they didn't choose what was on that path, they only chose to walk it. And we can accept that it's the right choice, or we can pick our comrade up, and help them to see that they haven't seen all that the road has to offer them. For some, their efforts don't prove to be enough, or they're too late, and they feel betrayed. They feel insulted and inadequate. It's important to take that into account before you find yourself too far gone.

-Is suicide ever "the right choice?"

Sometimes, it's not a choice. Sometimes it is. And sometimes, people are just stupid. Like I said, for some, they just stop thinking. They can't contemplate on anything and they stop thinking about what is right or wrong. They're just... puppets, acting out a gruesome show for others to observe. From there, they can't be controlled without physical force. And it's a long way to get them out of that rut. It takes years. Sometimes, they just never come back the same. When there's those who aren't at that state, they have to stop and think. What could possibly be right about this? Most everybody who contemplates suicide is in this state. Nobody truly loses themselves until they're an hour away from pulling the trigger. It takes abuse to push someone over the edge. When people go through with it when just simply considering the idea, this is when people begin to call them cowards, losers, idiots, etc. They know their friend isn't helpless, but they still do it, and they don't know why. At this state, you need to start talking to people and expressing your emotions a lot more. You'll learn a lot. Then there's stupid people, and I have a lot of faith in humanity, but then there's people like this. People who just act on the first thing that pops into their heads. That's not depression, it's not being desperate, it seems to just be a joke to them. Remember the ending to The Room (no, I'm being serious here)? When

Spoiler

Johnny just straight up offs himself because of one little thing?

You think about how that happens and what a massive amount of stress it'd bring you, but he just did it. He wasn't even thinking about it at all prior to that exact moment. That's when people are being stupid. That's when people have a right to be angry at the victim. Because nobody can tell what happens after that. Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad. As hard as it may be, it just needs to play out a while longer.

-When is a person allowed to make "the choice"?

Technically, whenever. However, one person will stop you, and one person won't let you make that choice. That person is yourself. You, above all others, are what's keeping yourself from doing it. Rather than snuffing those feelings out, it's important to listen to what you have to say. You have to ask yourself why you can't let yourself do that. When you do, you'll understand why you can't do it. Society doesn't tell you when you're allowed to make the choice or if you're even allowed to make it at all. People don't make decisions for you. Nobody tells you what you like or who you love or who you are. You're the only one that does that. And when you feel like you're not allowed to make that choice, that's a sign to stop because you clearly want yourself to live, and it doesn't matter if others do or don't.

Hopefully all of that makes sense. I'm not exactly an expert on the subject, but I think a lot. I've figured out a lot about myself, and that's the first step to getting into the minds of others.

 

[Bgheff]

I was in the process of posting, but everything I was going to say has already been said really. Is there anyone with a different opinion than what has been stated?

 

[Christ-Chan]

Fuck it, Im fuckiung crying like rain
I'll tell you tomoorrow

 

[Some JERK]

Not a problem at all. I've spent a lot of time thinking about the very questions you've asked. I've lost a couple of people because they took their own lives. At first you're so very angry and sad. you miss them. you'll always miss them. but you do start thinking about it beyond your own hurt. Maybe you don't ever really understand, and you always wish that you could've done something different. you didn't tell them what you really felt (none of us do, because it's socially awkward) but you wonder if you had been able to, if it would've made any difference.

i think the one thing that most of us should always try to remember is that we're more important than we think we are. People feel things about us that we're not aware of, that we might never be aware of.

[faggot]This part made me genuinely cry [/faggot]

That's allowed, you know.

 

[CatParty]

everyone is important even if they do not feel it. you mean something to someone. in the interest of partial disclosure, i have had depression issues in the past. and i have been in the hospital for these. and my own personal way to view things is that no matter how bad things are today there is always the possibilities and hopes of tomorrow.

 

[Christ-Chan]

Thanks for all the replies. I haven't been able to process all my thoughts yet, so I don't think I'm ready to re-visit this thread anymore until I feel a bit more stable. Maybe it should be locked, unless other posters are interested in keeping the subject going? I don't know

 

[KatsuKitty]

With the exception of one thing, no matter how badly things get fucked up, you'll always come back from it sooner or later. Time, great friends, bankrupcy, and moving work wonders to fix most everything you could off yourself over.

That one thing, however, is grave illness. Cancer, heart disease, gross disfigurement, schizophrenia...anything that will torment you day in and day out without escape. I've been up against grave illness a few times in my life, and I promised that if I ever I got a terminal diagnosis, I would be dead by gunshot that same afternoon, no time wasted, no treatment attempted. You know that saying, "at least he's got his health?" That really is the most important thing in the world, and when you lose it, you lose everything you could ever hope for. I don't see a reason to live past that, because there simply isn't that optimism you can have with other kinds of adversity.

So, my answer is you can always fix it as long as it doesn't involve your body crapping out on you. You can escape everything else, but you can never escape your own damn body. Therefore, the only form of suicide I really feel is justified is physician-assisted suicide for grave diseases.

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

First off I would never call a person who committed suicide selfish. They are a victim and deserve sympathy. I would only call a suicide a coward if they shot other people before shooting themselves.

I agree with CatParty that you matter to other people, although I'm sure most suicides think they're crap and everyone hates them, or they see their death as some sort of revenge against their family and so-called friends. Most people who kill themselves are alone when they do it, so I'm sure many suicides feel alone and abandoned.

I'd never judge someone who killed themselves because they were diagnosed with a terminal illness, but there is one thing to consider. What if your terminal illness would take 10 years to kill you? Someone may find a cure or treatment in that time that could make your life worth living, and that may be the only thing that keeps some people going is that there might be a cure before they die. I remember a scene in a Star Trek movie where Bones relives the biggest regret in his life. He helps his father commit suicide and the next day, they found a cure to the illness.

Also, if you had a disease that would kill you in 10 years, wouldn't you want to spend as much time with your family and friends and do all the things you wanted to do in life in that time? What if you had 9.5 good years left and the last 6 months were the ones that you would suffer? You could die at that point.

I guess I don't understand the unimaginable suffering and despair that would drive someone to off themselves. I've felt very depressed at times, but I've always thought that things weren't so bad and that they would get better. I only have pity for people who think they have to kill themselves.

 

[cypocraphy]

[youtube]ijZRCIrTgQc[/youtube]

 

[Globe]

It came from a small paragraph in a paper which means you kill yourself and you make a big old sacrifice and try to get your revenge. That's all you're gonna end up with is a paragraph in a newspaper. Sixty-three degrees and cloudy in a suburban neighborhood. That's the beginning of the video and that's the same thing is that in the end, it does nothing … nothing changes. The world goes on and you're gone. The best revenge is to live on and prove yourself.

Unless you're terminally ill and in constant physical pain and can't imagine having to go through another day of it, I can't see any legitimate reason for offing yourself. In any other case, suicide is pretty much the most effective way of telling the world that you let it beat you. It should be your right, though. I don't think anybody should be able to tell you that you can't, just why you shouldn't.

 

[Grand Number of Pounds]

A 12-year-old boy in my community killed himself in his bathroom Friday afternoon. No one knows why he did it, he seemed happy, didn't have a history of mental illness or depression, he had a good family life and he had a lot of friends at his school. It shocked the community. I know a family who were his neighbors and babysat him when he was little and I know the father of one of his best friends. They're all heartbroken over his tragic death, and I can't imagine the emotional hell his family must be going through. His funeral was today.

All I have to say is if you're thinking about killing yourself, don't, please get help. Your death will affect people you don't even know in ways you can't imagine.

 

[Some JERK]

A 12-year-old boy in my community killed himself in his bathroom Friday afternoon. No one knows why he did it, he seemed happy, didn't have a history of mental illness or depression, he had a good family life and he had a lot of friends at his school. It shocked the community. I know a family who were his neighbors and babysat him when he was little and I know the father of one of his best friends. They're all heartbroken over his tragic death, and I can't imagine the emotional hell his family must be going through. His funeral was today.

All I have to say is if you're thinking about killing yourself, don't, please get help. Your death will affect people you don't even know in ways you can't imagine.

That blows. Nobody should be so upset or despondent over their life at 12 years old that they end it. You can't help but think about all the shit that kid's never going to do.

 

[The Tyrant]

Would it be alright if I use this as a means to vent, as it relates to my attempted suicide? I'm not a person who likes to reveal information about myself, but recently, I believe it to be a good idea.

I have never, ever, been a confident person. I have an intense amount of self-loathing that stemmed from my childhood. I think I'm annoying, obnoxious, that there is no room for me in the world and that I should just disappear. Everywhere I went, I was shunned away or hated. There are a lot of things I've done wrong, that I wish I could correct, but I know this would be pointless. To those I hurt, I will always appear to be an arrogant bastard who cannot form a proper bond. I wish I could tell them how upset that makes me. I wish I could tell them that I never meant to come off that way; that I'm just a very scared person, and that I'm so, so sorry if I hurt them. I can't let people get too close to me because I'm terrified they are only out to further destroy what foundation is left.

These insecurities, along with a crumbling family caused me to become very pessimistic. I couldn't make anyone smile. I couldn't help my family. All I did was hate my incompetence. Hate my pathetic ways. Hate my inability to just change something. I'd beat myself. I'd crash my head against the wall, claw at my scalp, and other violent things and because of my predicament, it nearly went unnoticed. The only one who noticed was my mother, who, too, was suffering due to a(thankfully) non-terminal cancer.

Being a selfish, weak human being, after getting into it with my father for his remarkable behavior in basic sympathy, I threw myself off of our balcony.

I woke up in the hospital to my mother sobbing and praying to God not to take me away.

Amazingly I was mostly uninjured.

Many years later, I realized just how incredibly foolish I was. I don't have many people in my life due to my fears. I might have some misanthropy. I might be unable to truly connect with someone else and give the my full trust. But damnit, I have my mother. My mother lets me know that, even at my lowest, even if I were scum to someone, there is someone out there who loves you more than life itself. I've been trying to improve myself bit by bit because of her. I know I've become a better person since then, who appreciates life much more. I think the side of me that is filled with fear and loathing will always exist, but I want to do everything I can to never return to what I once was.

 

[SlowInTheMinds]

-Does every person have the right to decide whether or not to continue with his/her life?

Yes.

-Is it disrespectful to the survivors or should one accept that others chose the path that is right for them?

Only when they happen to come across the mess. I especially like Switzerland's assisted suicide law, where you can get yourself euthanized for like $3000 and a signature, no need for a terminal illness (unlike the Netherlands)

-Is suicide ever "the right choice?"

Occasionally, yes. (If OPL ever decided he wants to improve his life, he'd probably be unable to get a job anyways)

-When is a person allowed to make "the choice"?

always.

honestly, these answers come from someone who goes between suicidal depressive and moderately happy every 2/3 hours.

Would it be alright if I use this as a means to vent, as it relates to my attempted suicide? I'm not a person who likes to reveal information about myself, but recently, I believe it to be a good idea.

I have never, ever, been a confident person. I have an intense amount of self-loathing that stemmed from my childhood. I think I'm annoying, obnoxious, that there is no room for me in the world and that I should just disappear. Everywhere I went, I was shunned away or hated. There are a lot of things I've done wrong, that I wish I could correct, but I know this would be pointless. To those I hurt, I will always appear to be an arrogant bastard who cannot form a proper bond. I wish I could tell them how upset that makes me. I wish I could tell them that I never meant to come off that way; that I'm just a very scared person, and that I'm so, so sorry if I hurt them. I can't let people get too close to me because I'm terrified they are only out to further destroy what foundation is left.

These insecurities, along with a crumbling family caused me to become very pessimistic. I couldn't make anyone smile. I couldn't help my family. All I did was hate my incompetence. Hate my pathetic ways. Hate my inability to just change something. I'd beat myself. I'd crash my head against the wall, claw at my scalp, and other violent things and because of my predicament, it nearly went unnoticed. The only one who noticed was my mother, who, too, was suffering due to a(thankfully) non-terminal cancer.

Being a selfish, weak human being, after getting into it with my father for his remarkable behavior in basic sympathy, I threw myself off of our balcony.

I woke up in the hospital to my mother sobbing and praying to God not to take me away.

Amazingly I was mostly uninjured.

Many years later, I realized just how incredibly foolish I was. I don't have many people in my life due to my fears. I might have some misanthropy. I might be unable to truly connect with someone else and give the my full trust. But damnit, I have my mother. My mother lets me know that, even at my lowest, even if I were scum to someone, there is someone out there who loves you more than life itself. I've been trying to improve myself bit by bit because of her. I know I've become a better person since then, who appreciates life much more. I think the side of me that is filled with fear and loathing will always exist, but I want to do everything I can to never return to what I once was.

the first part (before the self-harm) describes me... but i have had many times when i stood in the kitchen.. with a knife... or at the toilet, two fingers in my throat (i weigh 114lbs - already severely underweight thankyouverymuch - more or less trying to induce anorexia/bulimia just as a form of self-destruction), when i suddenly think 'what am i doing'.. but even that starts to kick in later...