Tabletop Community Watch -

RX-78NT-1 Alex Gundam

The Autist who unironically studied Klingon
kiwifarms.net
Has to be trolling. I wouldn't DM online for kids in this day and age of sue happy parent's and children with obvious mental issues.
Ah, so I shouldn't get a PUG of under 16's to play FATAL like I was planning. Goddammit, I really wanted those kids to learn how big a dick an orc can take before an anal tear. This is the knowledge you should be passing down to your kids. /s
 

Reverend

Avatar of Change
kiwifarms.net
You are underestimating the stupidity of the average groomer.

Matt Mercer has to be one of the most spineless and cretinous DMs I've ever seen. He goes out of his way to fudge dice to compensate for his group's "lolsorandom" stupidity. Whilst I have always maintained that a good GM never says no to a group, a good GM will simply enable the group to experience the consequences of their stupidity. Want to derail the game by killing the king? Go right ahead his army of guards will kill you before you reach the king. Did the dice roll in your favour and you did kill the king? Okay, well now that whole kingdom wants you dead for murdering their king. That's a great campaign hook if you can survive.

But I have found when I go to my LGS for games, they have a rule about not killing PCs. The zoomers are so entrenched with their ideas they think LOSING is a gamebreaking bug. And they just want to enact their tumblr OC ERP in my games.
I've found that a PC death can be a powerful motivator for the table in and of itself. I've had PC's died and done the whole "Look through your bag of STUFF and see what you can come up with to save this player's life". I'm all for Creative Problem Solving here and fudging a few things to get the player back to life, but if there is no threat of death then combat becomes meaningless and you might as well go into each encounter saying "Take off 1/4 of your resources, shit dies, you get X,Y,Z" and move on.

Without any risk, reward becomes meaningless.

And as an Iron DM(tm) the motto "I do not kill PC's, the players actions/inactions kill PC's" is applicable.

Finally, CR/BBT/ST all brought in more people to the table which is fine, but it's upto the DM/Storyteller to set the expectations which requires the DM to have a spine/backbone and lay down the rules.
 

SmokeyMcRunFast

kiwifarms.net
Matt Mercer has to be one of the most spineless and cretinous DMs I've ever seen. He goes out of his way to fudge dice to compensate for his group's "lolsorandom" stupidity. Whilst I have always maintained that a good GM never says no to a group, a good GM will simply enable the group to experience the consequences of their stupidity. Want to derail the game by killing the king? Go right ahead his army of guards will kill you before you reach the king. Did the dice roll in your favour and you did kill the king? Okay, well now that whole kingdom wants you dead for murdering their king. That's a great campaign hook if you can survive.

But I have found when I go to my LGS for games, they have a rule about not killing PCs. The zoomers are so entrenched with their ideas they think LOSING is a gamebreaking bug. And they just want to enact their tumblr OC ERP in my games.
My PCs discovered that when they decided that burning down a secret Aztechnology R&D facility is a good way to cover their tracks. Except they also decided to leave survivors. Suddenly that really OP pixie in the group isn’t so fun when there are only 6 pixie shadowrunners in the world.
They were tracked down and given the option to work off their debt doing some really shitty things for the big A or dying to a leopard guard unit.
 

Judge Dredd

Senior Layout Artist
kiwifarms.net
I think my main issue with the /tg/ community right now is all the critical role kids who refuse to play anything other than DnD. If they get bored of fantasy they'd rather twist DnD into whatever genre they want instead of playing a game actually suited to that genre. It's maddening as a GM because I would love to get a group to try Traveller or CoC but everyone just wants to play DnD. Man, Critical Role and it's consequences have been a disaster for tabletop games.
I disagree. Or I agree, but they're two separate problems.

I assume I said this earlier in the thread. If I have, I apologise. But refusing to play anything that's not D&D seems to common among veterans. They will only play D&D fifth, while complaining it's not AD&D or 3.5. I try to play Cyberpunk, and they refuse, saying they'll only play if I run Shadowrun. I'm running a short sci-fi game, and only 2 of my 5 players turned up. I might have to scrap the entire campaign.

I don't really believe most of the complaints that Critical Roll ruined RPGs. It brought in a lot of new players, which is good for me as it means I have players. And when I say players, I mean people who will actually play. At worst, they'll ask to play a blood hunter, which I'm okay with.

In other words. Critical Roll brought in newbies. Newbies seem down to play almost anything, or at least give games a shot. Veterans constantly complain about the game that's chosen, and refuse to turn up unless the game is played to their exact specifications, which usually involves so many house rules that the game becomes broken.
 

Corn Flakes

Battle Creek's Finest
kiwifarms.net
I assume I said this earlier in the thread. If I have, I apologise. But refusing to play anything that's not D&D seems to common among veterans. They will only play D&D fifth, while complaining it's not AD&D or 3.5. I try to play Cyberpunk, and they refuse, saying they'll only play if I run Shadowrun. I'm running a short sci-fi game, and only 2 of my 5 players turned up. I might have to scrap the entire campaign.
I'm one of those veterans who refuse to play anything that's not D&D (more like, I refuse to play systems I don't already know, because I don't have the time or patience to learn new ones, and everybody already plays D&D). On the other hand, I don't complain about it. I like 5e, I think it's a far more agile and easy-to-learn system than 3.5e (and much better for online play), even if it has some issues. I know a few old-school grognards who are permanently pissy, though, so I'll grant you that point.

I don't really believe most of the complaints that Critical Roll ruined RPGs. It brought in a lot of new players, which is good for me as it means I have players. And when I say players, I mean people who will actually play. At worst, they'll ask to play a blood hunter, which I'm okay with.

In other words. Critical Roll brought in newbies. Newbies seem down to play almost anything, or at least give games a shot. Veterans constantly complain about the game that's chosen, and refuse to turn up unless the game is played to their exact specifications, which usually involves so many house rules that the game becomes broken.
The problem isn't that Critical Role brought in newbies. The problem is that many of these newbies come in with unrealistic expectations of how a D&D campaign goes (Mercer has more resources than most hobbyist GMs, and the show is scripted), and many others show up with the mindset of "but Matt Mercer would let me do it!", even if they're talking about something that goes completely against the theme and tone of the campaign the GM is trying to run.

Can those newbies be educated? If they're not close-minded morons who think denying their characters' neopronouns is bigotry of the highest order, maybe. But it's still annoying. I'm usually the one helping my GM keep things running smoothly during events for newbies, and the last two times he held open tables (one at a LGS event shortly before the 'rona, and one online last year) we had one or two newbies who were interested in learning. Most others didn't really pay attention to what the GM (or I) said, and just wanted to do "what the guys in Critical Role did" and refused to engage with anything without comparing it to CR. They weren't really interested in RPGs, they were just Critical Role fans. We did manage to get a couple of these kids to think for themselves and enjoy tabletop RPGs as more than just doing what they saw on youtube, but it took a lot of effort.

Maybe we just got unlucky. We're in the Northeast and close to a very large city, after all. The local high-school and college-age kids are very specific in their tastes and ideals sometimes. But after hearing about Critical Role in association with these behaviors so often, we're both somewhat ill-disposed towards it.
 

Reverend

Avatar of Change
kiwifarms.net
I'm one of those veterans who refuse to play anything that's not D&D (more like, I refuse to play systems I don't already know, because I don't have the time or patience to learn new ones, and everybody already plays D&D). On the other hand, I don't complain about it. I like 5e, I think it's a far more agile and easy-to-learn system than 3.5e (and much better for online play), even if it has some issues. I know a few old-school grognards who are permanently pissy, though, so I'll grant you that point.


The problem isn't that Critical Role brought in newbies. The problem is that many of these newbies come in with unrealistic expectations of how a D&D campaign goes (Mercer has more resources than most hobbyist GMs, and the show is scripted), and many others show up with the mindset of "but Matt Mercer would let me do it!", even if they're talking about something that goes completely against the theme and tone of the campaign the GM is trying to run.

Can those newbies be educated? If they're not close-minded morons who think denying their characters' neopronouns is bigotry of the highest order, maybe. But it's still annoying. I'm usually the one helping my GM keep things running smoothly during events for newbies, and the last two times he held open tables (one at a LGS event shortly before the 'rona, and one online last year) we had one or two newbies who were interested in learning. Most others didn't really pay attention to what the GM (or I) said, and just wanted to do "what the guys in Critical Role did" and refused to engage with anything without comparing it to CR. They weren't really interested in RPGs, they were just Critical Role fans. We did manage to get a couple of these kids to think for themselves and enjoy tabletop RPGs as more than just doing what they saw on youtube, but it took a lot of effort.

Maybe we just got unlucky. We're in the Northeast and close to a very large city, after all. The local high-school and college-age kids are very specific in their tastes and ideals sometimes. But after hearing about Critical Role in association with these behaviors so often, we're both somewhat ill-disposed towards it.

You hit the nail on the head. Voyeurs are what people are but wont' admit it.

It requires a DM to sit down with the players and interact with them, work with them, socialize and set expectations. Confrontation and Discourse is rarely taught how to be dealt with these days everyone feels it's easier to avoid and do what the group wants. This is how groups fail time and time again because the DM needs to be the HNIC and stand up and say "No we aren't doing it like CR, that's a show, that's not how I run my game". This breeds conflict which the DM then has to state the options and begin the discussion.

I've had 1 player who was a die hard CR youtube viewer and then would show up at the game half knowing what was going on but would spout the shit about whatever barbarian dude did something or other on CR . I stopped inviting him after it became clear he wanted the CR experience but do none of the "work" to get there.

Some people just want to watch and not participate, that's fine, they can observe and be on the outside looking in, weeding those people out from the ones that want to get involved is the job of the DM (and the group collectively) so the whole story/party/event doesn't goto shit.
 

SITHRAK!

ESL teenager spouting gibberish and angry words.
kiwifarms.net
I refuse to play systems I don't already know, because I don't have the time or patience to learn new ones
See, here's the thing AFAIAC. Rules are easy to write because they don't require imagination.
So most RPGS are hundreds of pages of rules. Who the fuck has time for that?

Imagination, inspiration and originality are the hard things to develop.
Which is why more and more RPGs are just rulesets with fuck-all background depth.
And the worst are the new zoomer RPG's like Thirsty Sword Lesbians that seem to replace setting altogether and sub in identity politics instead.

Great RPG's are 10% rules and 90% setting. Early WFRP was a great system.
You can learn to play it in about 15 minutes because the rules are pretty much self-explanatory.
 

Wallace

Cram it in me, baby!
kiwifarms.net
See, here's the thing AFAIAC. Rules are easy to write because they don't require imagination.
So most RPGS are hundreds of pages of rules. Who the fuck has time for that?

Imagination, inspiration and originality are the hard things to develop.
Which is why more and more RPGs are just rulesets with fuck-all background depth.
And the worst are the new zoomer RPG's like Thirsty Sword Lesbians that seem to replace setting altogether and sub in identity politics instead.

Great RPG's are 10% rules and 90% setting. Early WFRP was a great system.
You can learn to play it in about 15 minutes because the rules are pretty much self-explanatory.
What would you say to an ultralight or one-page rules set for you to port your own setting into?
 

Inquisitor_BadAss

The only person who fell for Nulls April fools
kiwifarms.net
Another cheating scandal involving toy soldiers and the now formerly number 1 ITC ranked player TJ Lanigan. Apologies in advance but spikeybitz was the only site I found hosting his “apology” if you can call it that.


Reddit thread regarding the event which was locked due to totally real death threats.


As if his cheating wasn’t bad enough he had the balls to do it on a live stream game. His apology contains the usual crap when these sad fuckers get caught red handed. It also resulted in all points for people who participated in the event to become 0. He quiet literally ruined it for all the other players and now he has a 30 day ban in now in place.

The man in question
AB1CE1EE-B161-4FDD-B5DA-A0BE202A9AAF.jpeg

Seriously fuck this guy. It’s funny 40K has all the “serious business” of esports without any of the sponsors or clout.
 

SITHRAK!

ESL teenager spouting gibberish and angry words.
kiwifarms.net
What would you say to an ultralight or one-page rules set for you to port your own setting into?
Great idea. There’s a lot of fun to be had with light rules.
The more rules there are, the less intuitive the game is.
I bought Dark Heresy sight unseen, expecting WFRP in space, and instead got three pounds of rules. Never bothered trying to run a game as a result.
Rules get in the way of play, IMO.
 

Corn Flakes

Battle Creek's Finest
kiwifarms.net
Great idea. There’s a lot of fun to be had with light rules.
The more rules there are, the less intuitive the game is.
I bought Dark Heresy sight unseen, expecting WFRP in space, and instead got three pounds of rules. Never bothered trying to run a game as a result.
Rules get in the way of play, IMO.
That's actually one of the reasons I like D&D 5e. It strikes the right balance between number crunching and agility for me. I've played a few other games, but there is such a thing as having too few rules. FATE is a good example of that. My GM tried to do a FATE one-shot and the rules are so abstract and ample we actually got bogged down trying to think of what to do when it came to our time to act, and by the end of the session the GM admitted to being exhausted because so much of the legwork was put on him.
 

SmokeyMcRunFast

kiwifarms.net
Great idea. There’s a lot of fun to be had with light rules.
The more rules there are, the less intuitive the game is.
I bought Dark Heresy sight unseen, expecting WFRP in space, and instead got three pounds of rules. Never bothered trying to run a game as a result.
Rules get in the way of play, IMO.
It’s the same with shadowrun. Over the years between rules we ignored and rules I tweaked to streamline the game we have a homebrew system that runs smoothly and still keeps all the flavor.
 

ZMOT

wat
kiwifarms.net
I'm one of those veterans who refuse to play anything that's not D&D (more like, I refuse to play systems I don't already know, because I don't have the time or patience to learn new ones, and everybody already plays D&D). On the other hand, I don't complain about it. I like 5e, I think it's a far more agile and easy-to-learn system than 3.5e (and much better for online play), even if it has some issues. I know a few old-school grognards who are permanently pissy, though, so I'll grant you that point.
imo that's a silly argument. first of all no rules system is complete different, they all build on the same blocks. once you know one you don't start from scratch, so the actual differences are hardly hundreds of pages (if you stay in the d20 sphere probably even less).
unless you want to do full character creation for a oneshot, those don't apply either. just grab a premade char and write your own name on it. heck you could even go as far and exchange orc for beefy human as long as the math still applies - for the RP part that hardly matters.

the other thing is you don't need to know most rules to begin with. even the crunchiest system is in the end an abstraction. sure, you could do 5 different rolls for the size, velocity, kinetic impact, blast radius and color of a fireball (there are probably systems like that), but in the end it's a test against value, where for most people is to remember where to look for your stats and possible modifiers (and since those don't usually change constantly, just put that number somewhere) to roll against whatever your GM tells you.
this also means that logic still applies. as a halfing rogue you can try to kick in a door, but you won't have much success, do you really need to know the exact mathematical probability?

don't get me wrong, I get laziness and rather spending the time with something you already know instead of learning, but in reality "muh complicated rules" as a pc is a cop-out. as long as the GM knows how it works that's already half the game, and in the end it's a team effort, no newbie gets told to build a char completely on it's own and them memorize every option in the rules unless your group really likes constantly have to look for people.
 

Judge Dredd

Senior Layout Artist
kiwifarms.net
That's actually one of the reasons I like D&D 5e. It strikes the right balance between number crunching and agility for me.
That's also why I fanboy for Savage Worlds. Enough depth to give the PCs options, yet simple enough it can taught in minutes. As a GM, it's easy to apply modifiers, and I can even stat NPCs on the fly. The game doesn't get bogged down in maths and modifiers so turns are fast.

first of all no rules system is complete different, they all build on the same blocks. once you know one you don't start from scratch, so the actual differences are hardly hundreds of pages (if you stay in the d20 sphere probably even less).
That's also a problem in two ways.

1. It makes running those games confusing. If a player decides to dive through a threatened space, do I ask for athletics or acrobatics? Is it an opposed roll, and if so, what against? If a player is talking to a noble, is it persuasion, diplomacy, or society? The players get similarly tripped up, having to ask if they add dex to range damage or not.

2. It makes internet arguments and picky veterans even more pointless. They're basically staning for "is flat foot a separate AC, or a flat -2" or other minor changes. I could understand that kind of argument for games where the rules changes are substantial.
 

Corn Flakes

Battle Creek's Finest
kiwifarms.net
imo that's a silly argument. first of all no rules system is complete different, they all build on the same blocks. once you know one you don't start from scratch, so the actual differences are hardly hundreds of pages (if you stay in the d20 sphere probably even less).
unless you want to do full character creation for a oneshot, those don't apply either. just grab a premade char and write your own name on it. heck you could even go as far and exchange orc for beefy human as long as the math still applies - for the RP part that hardly matters.

the other thing is you don't need to know most rules to begin with. even the crunchiest system is in the end an abstraction. sure, you could do 5 different rolls for the size, velocity, kinetic impact, blast radius and color of a fireball (there are probably systems like that), but in the end it's a test against value, where for most people is to remember where to look for your stats and possible modifiers (and since those don't usually change constantly, just put that number somewhere) to roll against whatever your GM tells you.
this also means that logic still applies. as a halfing rogue you can try to kick in a door, but you won't have much success, do you really need to know the exact mathematical probability?

don't get me wrong, I get laziness and rather spending the time with something you already know instead of learning, but in reality "muh complicated rules" as a pc is a cop-out. as long as the GM knows how it works that's already half the game, and in the end it's a team effort, no newbie gets told to build a char completely on it's own and them memorize every option in the rules unless your group really likes constantly have to look for people.
Yeah, the core mechanics are usually pretty simple (roll dice, add up values/count faces, compare to target number), but I have a lot more fun when I understand the complex parts of the system too. Sure, I could just tell the GM that my halfling rogue is going to try to hide and the GM can just tell me to roll a d20 and add the little number next to "Stealth" on my character sheet and be none the wiser. But I like knowing the underlying mechanics. I like knowing that the number I rolled is going to be compared against the monsters' passive perception, and all that jazz. That's just one small example, but most systems have tons of smaller sub-systems built on top of them that my engineer brain just finds interesting. Like: Battlemaster maneuvers, attacks of opportunity, grappling (3.5e PTSD flashbacks...), Warlock pact features, monster lair actions, mounted combat (we've never had to use those rules, actually), spellcasting minutiae, or whatever else is in the book. Or books. I like flipping through the DMG every now and then.

Roleplaying is still very much the main source of enjoyment, but having a firm grasp on the system makes it far more fun because I can confidently say "I'll attempt to do X", instead of having to ask the GM "can I do X?" all the time. The game world feels more immersive to me like that. Maybe it's because I spent a lot of time reading rulebooks without actually being able to play in highschool, I don't know.

On the other hand, and this is probably a reflection of my gaming groups and me growing old and getting locked into my own tastes, I like what I play and I don't feel like going out of my way to pick up a lot of new games anymore. I've played a lot of different genres in the past, but at this point in my life D&D-style sword-and-sorcery good-vs-evil bullshit works well and it's not hard to find a game (although it may be hard to find a good game). I'd be up for some old-school Storyteller, too. Check the World of Darkness thread for my misadventures in trying to find a Werewolf game in Current Year. And I'm currently interested in Savage Worlds: I need to finish going through the book and see how I can grok it and whether I can pitch it to the other guys around the table.

Sure, Wizards of the Coast annoys me with their current crop of dangerhair-sourced content, but I still like 5e just fine. I'm not sayng other games are "too complicated" for me to learn. I can do complicated systems just fine, I've played BattleTech with L3 rules in the past. I'm saying I'm not interested in these games. At least not enough to learn the rules.

ETA: I'll also mention that I think people who relentlessly complain about D&D and then refuse to learn a new system are fucking stupid.

That's also why I fanboy for Savage Worlds. Enough depth to give the PCs options, yet simple enough it can taught in minutes. As a GM, it's easy to apply modifiers, and I can even stat NPCs on the fly. The game doesn't get bogged down in maths and modifiers so turns are fast.
That's actually the big reason I'm having fun reading about Savage Worlds. Playing online for so long, I really enjoy having a turn go fast these days.
 
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WhatIsThePunchline

kiwifarms.net
I've always enjoyed both games with lots of rules and games with very few. It's frustrating sometimes because almost no one I've met is like that. Either someone wants to play all setting, fraction of mechanics all the time, or they want to run tons of mechanics, and the setting is mostly just there to funnel you into the next fight or investigation or puzzle or whatnot and that's what they like so that's what they'll keep running over and over and over.

The only solution to get some variation seems to be to find different groups to play with.

Same with system. It's not that everyone wants to run dnd all the time, it's just that's the most common game. People find a handful of systems to play and that's what they like. At least that's more understandable, once you've gotten invested in something you want to keep with it.
 

iceteayo

kiwifarms.net
The lore was also supposed to just be so over the top no one could take it seriously. But in current year, missing the point is just the end result of what's supposed to happen. Imperium being so ultra-nationalist that not even its greatest warriors can live up to their ideal, football hooligan orcs, elves literally fucking a god into existence...come on, this is just capeshit before capeshit became popular. Leave it to autists (literal ones even!) not being able to just shut up and have fun with it.
40k and Warhammer Fantasy has gotten ALOT of lore only fans due to the increase of "Lore" videos on youtube. I would say maybe 6/10 self proclaimed Warhammer fans online will mostly say the hobby is too expensive but say they love the lore. I hate sounding like a turbofag but it has slightly gotten on my nerves how this modern community acts maybe I have just became bored with the memes but frankly even when I was a guy who just played DoW and read the books I never acted this bad with memes.

Some may disagree but the best way to gatekeep Warhammer is make sure a good AAA video game is never made, and delete all lore videos BAM 40k is gatekept. Go back to the days when the only 40k videos were scattered model videos, random DoW clips, and art slide shows with metal music. The sheer size of the lore actually gatekept people but now they can easily listen to whatever they want. Look at Age of Sigmar most of the people who like the setting typical paint/play the models mostly since the lore is not vast like Fantasy or 40k but also since it hasn't gotten a critically acclaimed video game. No one cared about Fantasy Battles till Total War and look at it now its more popular than before it died.

Also a sidenote but this might just be my autism speaking but the sheer amount of lore videos popping up on youtube for other franchises is simply astounding. I know people defend it with "oh its like an audio book" or "I dont have time to read" but I dunno it just kinda irks me the wrong way maybe just the way book reading is going I guess.
 

EnemyStand

kiwifarms.net
40k and Warhammer Fantasy has gotten ALOT of lore only fans due to the increase of "Lore" videos on youtube. I would say maybe 6/10 self proclaimed Warhammer fans online will mostly say the hobby is too expensive but say they love the lore. I hate sounding like a turbofag but it has slightly gotten on my nerves how this modern community acts maybe I have just became bored with the memes but frankly even when I was a guy who just played DoW and read the books I never acted this bad with memes.

Some may disagree but the best way to gatekeep Warhammer is make sure a good AAA video game is never made, and delete all lore videos BAM 40k is gatekept. Go back to the days when the only 40k videos were scattered model videos, random DoW clips, and art slide shows with metal music. The sheer size of the lore actually gatekept people but now they can easily listen to whatever they want. Look at Age of Sigmar most of the people who like the setting typical paint/play the models mostly since the lore is not vast like Fantasy or 40k but also since it hasn't gotten a critically acclaimed video game. No one cared about Fantasy Battles till Total War and look at it now its more popular than before it died.

Also a sidenote but this might just be my autism speaking but the sheer amount of lore videos popping up on youtube for other franchises is simply astounding. I know people defend it with "oh its like an audio book" or "I dont have time to read" but I dunno it just kinda irks me the wrong way maybe just the way book reading is going I guess.
No, I don't think you're a turbofag at all. A lot of it is that the people who are there for the game just want to play the damn game. Not deal with all these faggots (sometimes literally) trying to make a statement. It got worse with these lore videos, because a lot of them miss the point that the lore facilitates the game and gives you a jumping off point towards making your own stories through the wargame. Hell, the Dawn of War games made their own chapters and warbands. Then a bunch of normies showed up and suddenly the Lore is this serious, canonical thing because they don't get the Your Dudes mentality.
 

Corn Flakes

Battle Creek's Finest
kiwifarms.net
No, I don't think you're a turbofag at all. A lot of it is that the people who are there for the game just want to play the damn game. Not deal with all these faggots (sometimes literally) trying to make a statement. It got worse with these lore videos, because a lot of them miss the point that the lore facilitates the game and gives you a jumping off point towards making your own stories through the wargame. Hell, the Dawn of War games made their own chapters and warbands. Then a bunch of normies showed up and suddenly the Lore is this serious, canonical thing because they don't get the Your Dudes mentality.
Games Workshop themselves are also to blame for it. These lore videos don't spawn out of thin air, their creators read that shit somewhere else and then sum it up and spew it out onto youtube. Even before the current crop of derptastic lore like the Primaris Marines and the Imperium Nihilus, GW had been treating the lore like complete "srs bsns". for a long time. I started following 40K in 2001 (no money or patience to assemble and paint plastic crack, but I've always kept up with the rules) and back then Black Library was still releasing its first books. 20 years later and they've got what? 200? 300 books released? That's a lot of canonical sperging for a game about Your Dudes fighting someone else's Your Dudes for completely arbitrary reasons.

40K is old and crumbling under the weight of all the shit piled on top of it over the years. The lorehammer fans who have never rolled a d6 in their lives are just a symptom of it.
 

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