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RomanesEuntDomus

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Yeah, I can tell that both of those "destroy at level one" iterations scream like Pun-Pun; a thought exercise that at best uses RAW (rules as written) as maliciously as possible and something that will not make an appearance in a game because the DM can just go "no" or actually use RAI (rules as intended) to say that it doesn't work that way.
In case of the Druid's Revenge that I described, the very idea behind that feat is to buff the casters abilities to dish out way more magic than would usually be possible, which is why it comes at the expense of the character dying (he literally crumbles into ashes after his astral power is expanded or 1h has passed).
You can stack that with other, completely normal, benefits for casters (one of which allows you to increase a spell's range up to the horizon) and these synergies are, what makes this so ridiculously powerful.

You can tailor-make a character to use all this at level 1 legally, however said character wouldn't be good at anything else, which is powergaming to be sure, but nothing prevents you from reaching this goal naturally through regular level-progression eventually with a standard Druid of the same class.
It's not abusing "rules as written, but not intended", it just uses very strong synergies between different benefits and abilities, that stack exceptionally well.
Ironically, this whole hubbub isn't held back by the rules (or "rules as intended) so much as by the lore, since a druid would never make light use of such an ability, precisely cause it would create such a massive effect. That is to say, to even just consider using such a tactic, there would have to be some really apocalyptic things going on.
 

Adamska

Last Gunman
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Using Snowcasting on Locate City still works, making it a cold spell which then allows you to use Flash Frost Spell on it, allowing you to add 2 cold damage to it. Since that's only 2 cold damage per level of the spell (so since it's level 1, you'll only do 2 damage), you'll need to use heighten spell on it to do any real damage. You can then add either Empower Spell to it to help deal extra damage, or Wounding Spell to make that damage also bleeding damage.

Flash Frost Spells take one spell slot, Heighten Spell uses none, Empower uses two spell slots and Wounding uses two spell slots.
It really all depends on what you want to do, kill the citizens of a country outright, or deal some good damage then let them bleed out.

I would go with casting Locate City as a level 3 spell so that Flash Frost Spell would have it deal 6 damage, however it will turn it into a level 4 spell, then add Wounding Spell to it, making it a level six spell. You wont be able to use it until level 11, but when you use it the majority of the population is dead. Once you get to level 17 you can add Fell Animate so that it becomes a level 9 spell but also animates anyone killed by the spell into a zombie under your control.
In case of the Druid's Revenge that I described, the very idea behind that feat is to buff the casters abilities to dish out way more magic than would usually be possible, which is why it comes at the expense of the character dying (he literally crumbles into ashes after his astral power is expanded or 1h has passed).
You can stack that with other, completely normal, benefits for casters (one of which allows you to increase a spell's range up to the horizon) and these synergies are, what makes this so ridiculously powerful.

You can tailor-make a character to use all this at level 1 legally, however said character wouldn't be good at anything else, which is powergaming to be sure, but nothing prevents you from reaching this goal naturally through regular level-progression eventually with a standard Druid of the same class.
It's not abusing "rules as written, but not intended", it just uses very strong synergies between different benefits and abilities, that stack exceptionally well.
Ironically, this whole hubbub isn't held back by the rules (or "rules as intended) so much as by the lore, since a druid would never make light use of such an ability, precisely cause it would create such a massive effect. That is to say, to even just consider using such a tactic, there would have to be some really apocalyptic things going on.
So it's Pun-Pun level intentional misreading then. You're defending Pun-Pun level misreading.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

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So it's Pun-Pun level intentional misreading then. You're defending Pun-Pun level misreading.
I have no clue what a "Pun-Pun" is and it is not "intentional misreading" of the rules. From a technical point of view, what I wrote is what the rules allow you to create - only if you want to be able to do this at the very start, you'd have to minmax a lot, that's all. At no point do you apply rules in a shady way or have to bend them even the slightest. Whether a DM allows it or not is, as usual, a different kind of deal.
 

Adamska

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I have no clue what a "Pun-Pun" is and it is not "intentional misreading" of the rules. From a technical point of view, what I wrote is what the rules allow you to create - only if you want to be able to do this at the very start, you'd have to minmax a lot, that's all. At no point do you apply rules in a shady way or have to bend them even the slightest. Whether a DM allows it or not is, as usual, a different kind of deal.
Yeah... Pun-Pun is also a RAW (rules as written) build, but no DM ever would allow him due to the cheese and intentional misreading involved. Or this for that matter.

RAI (rules as intended) always trumps RAW.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

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Yeah... Pun-Pun is also a RAW (rules as written) build, but no DM ever would allow him due to the cheese and intentional misreading involved. Or this for that matter.

RAI (rules as intended) always trumps RAW.
What part of "there is no intentional misreading of the rules involved" do you not understand?
It's a silly gimmicky build that no one would ever consider playing cause it's utterly useless and only interesting as an exercise in entirely "legal" min-maxing.
 

Anonymus Fluhre

No man fears what he has seen grow
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What part of "there is no intentional misreading of the rules involved" do you not understand?
It's a silly gimmicky build that no one would ever consider playing cause it's utterly useless and only interesting as an exercise in entirely "legal" min-maxing.
I'd use it in Pathfinder, but Paizo was smart enough to not do the same mistakes WotC did with spells. Best I can do to wipe out a city is to use a contagion bomb on a child and then wait it out. Usually I have to string several spells together to do some awesome damage, or see if we're playing a Mythic campaign as Mythic rules were too broken and play a ranger so I could just solo the whole campaign and have the other players there as moral support.

Should be noted that Locate City never made it into the Spell Compendium or the Premium Edition of the Spell Compendium, it's like they knew they messed up and never reprinted it. Pathfinder's version of the spell allows the caster to personally find a settlement or someone they touch, and it's a level 6 spell too.

Also, I'm not mis-reading the feats or Locate City. 3.x was terrible when it came to feats and spells. Their monsters were even worse and their classes were boring. So far the only Dungeons and Dragons game worth playing is AD&D since you don't have such a problem with min-maxing shit due to save or die encounters.
 
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Randall Fragg

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Also, I'm not mis-reading the feats or Locate City. 3.x was terrible when it came to feats and spells. Their monsters were even worse and their classes were boring. So far the only Dungeons and Dragons game worth playing is AD&D since you don't have such a problem with min-maxing shit due to save or die encounters.
Nah, we all know the best version of D&D is 4e, because it successfully balances martials and magic-users, removes the dependence on a healbot cleric, and makes gameplay dependent on rationing powers and careful usage, instead of spamming munchkin’d spells. You know I’m right.
 

Sable

DANGEROUSLY WELCOMING IN THE NEW YEAR
kiwifarms.net
Ruling by RAI and RAW both have their own problems TBH.

If we're being honest, the Locate City Bomb is a nice bit of fun but I doubt anyone would use it in a campaign, even though you could.

Unless you were some sort of troll I suppose.
 

REGENDarySumanai

Man of excellent taste
kiwifarms.net
I'm now considering the level of dickishness of a gnome high illusionist 30/shadowcrafter 10/geometer 5/shadowcraft mage 5. Clearly, it's a probable way to jerk yourself raw with illusions, but if you don't want to deal with broken spellcasters and shitty martials, then just don't play D&D.
683162
 
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Anonymus Fluhre

No man fears what he has seen grow
kiwifarms.net
Nah, we all know the best version of D&D is 4e, because it successfully balances martials and magic-users, removes the dependence on a healbot cleric, and makes gameplay dependent on rationing powers and careful usage, instead of spamming munchkin’d spells. You know I’m right.
I enjoyed playing a tabletop MMORPG. However DM's couldn't do boss battles right so groups would get garbage for loot. Sometimes literal garbage.

Ruling by RAI and RAW both have their own problems TBH.

If we're being honest, the Locate City Bomb is a nice bit of fun but I doubt anyone would use it in a campaign, even though you could.

Unless you were some sort of troll I suppose.
I do that sort of thing when I'm in a bad group...So like 4/5's of my games.
 

RomanesEuntDomus

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So I guess the Critical Roll crew raised a few million on Kickstarter for a movie and woke indy game dev twitter is pissed.
I guess they are pissed that sitting on your ass all day, tweeting "FUCK DRUUUUMPF ALSO I AM A TRANSBIOLOGICAL SELF IDENTIFIED POTPLANTKIN ADIPOSITIVE COLLEGE DROPOUT, PAY FOR MY THINGS!" isn't getting them the dedicated fanbase to collect millions of dollars within hours.
 

exball

He's fat! Iiiiii'm thin!
kiwifarms.net
Nah, we all know the best version of D&D is 4e, because it successfully balances martials and magic-users, removes the dependence on a healbot cleric, and makes gameplay dependent on rationing powers and careful usage, instead of spamming munchkin’d spells. You know I’m right.
The best version of D&D is GURPS
 

Anonymus Fluhre

No man fears what he has seen grow
kiwifarms.net
Oh, how did that go?
Pretty good so far, I originally got her started on Mermaid Adventures so getting her to understand dice rolls wasn't too hard. Since you really don't need to do a lot of counting in FATE games it's easy for a child to get into and it's better than just telling a story to them at night as they can actually participate in it. Only thing I really had to do was make 1 on 1 adventures as the game requires you to have at least three players instead.
 

REGENDarySumanai

Man of excellent taste
kiwifarms.net
So the campaign I am in started off as a success. Black Star, Black Powder, two Chinese people, and many others fought off a monster at a children's hospital and managed to defeat it and hang out with two of the most famous superheroes in the world.
 
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