Tabletop Roleplaying Games (D&D, Pathfinder, CoC, ETC.) -

[robobobo]

Not sure if this is what you're referring to or not but something that has driven me crazy in my years of D&D are DMs obsessed with checks for basic shit that you would imagine a seasoned adventurer would be able to do. I get it's kinda funny to roll a check on making a sandwich or even possibly (UNDER SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES) important, but I've always resented pointless ability checks that exist only for dice-chucking purposes and to let the DM fuck with me because I rolled poorly climbing a ladder at lvl 5.

That's just bad GMing. A decent GM knows not to call for a roll unless it's a: significant, and b: possible to reasonably fail. Waking up, putting on your clothes, getting in your car, driving to the grocery store, and buying a loaf of bread should not involve any rolls for an average person.

 

[Gingervitis]

driving to the grocery store

Eh. It depends. If youre in a small town, your GM might make you roll to avoid a deer or something once or twice in a campaign, but thats about it. But if youre driving in urban areas, then yeah, youre gonna be rolling dice to avoid getting lost/crashing into insane drivers/running over seemingly suicidal pedestrians. Thats pretty much how driving in an urban area works.

 

[ZMOT]

As @Corn Flakes and @Dunsparce pointed out, a natural one is usually supposed to only be an automatic failure on an attack.

keyword being in dnd.

That's just bad GMing. A decent GM knows not to call for a roll unless it's a: significant, and b: possible to reasonably fail. Waking up, putting on your clothes, getting in your car, driving to the grocery store, and buying a loaf of bread should not involve any rolls for an average person.

you fall asleep at the wheel for a split second and wrap your car around a tree. a) significant because it's life or death and b) small things can have a big impact.

point being even in a system like dnd where you have the math and rules "to back you up" if your GM wants to fuck with you (why you play in such a group is another topic tho), but still doesn't give you full protection if the wants to, same way they don't prevent a player to abuse them "because the rules state...".
if you have a good GM - or rather good group where he doesn't have to be that good in the first place - that won't happen (but then can be argued he shouldn't fudge in the player's favor either), neither won't wonky math lead to "you make a sandwich and your dick explodes" because the goal isn't to make the player sated but dickless; it can still be interesting character development tho, if that's what you're after, same reason some people play with critical fumbles in a d20 system etc.

TLDR: every system depends on the group and even ptba can probably work in the right one.

 

[Marissa Moira]

What are the odds of them rebuying D&D?

Well considering that Gary Gygax was able to have sex and reproduce offspring, they don't have the slimmest chances ever on record.

 

[Captain Hastings Official]

keyword being in dnd.


you fall asleep at the wheel for a split second and wrap your car around a tree. a) significant because it's life or death and b) small things can have a big impact.

point being even in a system like dnd where you have the math and rules "to back you up" if your GM wants to fuck with you (why you play in such a group is another topic tho), but still doesn't give you full protection if the wants to, same way they don't prevent a player to abuse them "because the rules state...".
if you have a good GM - or rather good group where he doesn't have to be that good in the first place - that won't happen (but then can be argued he shouldn't fudge in the player's favor either), neither won't wonky math lead to "you make a sandwich and your dick explodes" because the goal isn't to make the player sated but dickless; it can still be interesting character development tho, if that's what you're after, same reason some people play with critical fumbles in a d20 system etc.

TLDR: every system depends on the group and even ptba can probably work in the right one.

I've actually played several PbtA games with a good group, and I agree. Good players and a good GM are much more important than the rule system in detemining fun, and there's many systems much worse than PbtA.

That said, it is a clunky enough system that it's defects were noticeable. In particular, like a lot of hipster rule systems, it's not so much "rules light" as "rules very specific." Like, in a normal RPG - Call of Cthulhu, let's say - if the GM forgets a rule, it doesn't matter that much. He can improvise something, kludge something together, it'll be fine. "Uh, shit, how does automatic fire work? Fuck it. You get a 20% bonus on your Firearms role, and can add an extra die to your damage. Sounds good? All right." Any themes the GM wants to get across are embedded in the scenarios he constructs, and any characterizations the players want to develop are embedded in the choices their PCs make. Not in the rules, which are just a framework on which to hang the PCs' adventure, and are easily fiddled with.


But in PbtA games, and a lot of other hipster games, the whole philosophy is the other way around. The rules are carefully designed and balanced to emphasize certain themes and plot characteristics, and to force PCs into certain archetypes. And so fiddling with them changes your plot, your themes, and the incentive structures that are the PCs' personalities. It's the difference between an older car where a set of wrenches, some screwdrivers, and some wd-40 will allow you to fix almost anything wrong with it, and a modern car that requires proprietary computer hardware to even start.

There's something to be said for these kinds of hipster systems: ran and played as intended, the way the rules and themes smoothly mesh together can make for a story that is wonderfully immersive. But this requires the system be designed very thoughtfully (which most PbtA games are not) and that it be played with scrupulous attention to the rules-as-written. And it comes with tremendous restrictions to the freedom of both the GM and the PCs.

 

[Adamska]

For those wondering; the sandwich making was me taking the concept to its' most absurd degree. Basically PbtA unless the people working on it put a good deal of effort into refining it will make it so that you never feel like you actually ARE competent, because the requirements to make it are high as hell if you use RAW, which I find is pretty shit. A DM who'd demand you roll for sandwich is a shit one, obviously, but it was done to highlight how goddamn stupid the system is.

It's why I much prefer the d6 Dice Pool or the d10 Dice Pool method, since... yeah getting a boxcar or something better than 7 is hard, but not so bad if you on average can try it 3-5 times on just a mediocre stat combo.

I just find the system to be mechanically poor in general, and I just don't think games with it as their system will be good, or at least a game I'd want to play.

 

[Corn Flakes]

It's why I much prefer the d6 Dice Pool or the d10 Dice Pool method, since... yeah getting a boxcar or something better than 7 is hard, but not so bad if you on average can try it 3-5 times on just a mediocre stat combo.

Since you mentioned it, what D6 Dice Pool systems you would actually recommend and why? I've got so many more d6 than any other dice in this jar of dice I keep on my desk, I might as well try suggest my group a system that actually uses them.

(And no, Shadowrun doesn't count. That's why I have all those d6s.)

 

[Juke and Jam]

Since you mentioned it, what D6 Dice Pool systems you would actually recommend and why? I've got so many more d6 than any other dice in this jar of dice I keep on my desk, I might as well try suggest my group a system that actually uses them.

(And no, Shadowrun doesn't count. That's why I have all those d6s.)

I've found the Year Zero rules very engaging and easy to learn. All the games (Alien, Forbidden Lands, Mutant Year Zero, etc) have their own little tweaks to the base system and support the right kind of story "feel" quite well.

 

[Adamska]

Since you mentioned it, what D6 Dice Pool systems you would actually recommend and why? I've got so many more d6 than any other dice in this jar of dice I keep on my desk, I might as well try suggest my group a system that actually uses them.

(And no, Shadowrun doesn't count. That's why I have all those d6s.)

West End games in general are pretty solid. Ghostbusters and their Star Wars use D6 pools, and they have a system known as D6 as well.

 

[Corn Flakes]

I've found the Year Zero rules very engaging and easy to learn. All the games (Alien, Forbidden Lands, Mutant Year Zero, etc) have their own little tweaks to the base system and support the right kind of story "feel" quite well.

I'll look into those, thanks.

West End games in general are pretty solid. Ghostbusters and their Star Wars use D6 pools, and they have a system known as D6 as well.

You mean the really old Star Wars RPG? Interesting. I didn't know that was a D6 pool system. For some reason I thought it was a 3d6 system like GURPS. I'll look it up. That's all OG Trilogy stuff, isn't it?

 

[Adamska]

I'll look into those, thanks.


You mean the really old Star Wars RPG? Interesting. I didn't know that was a D6 pool system. For some reason I thought it was a 3d6 system like GURPS. I'll look it up. That's all OG Trilogy stuff, isn't it?

Yeah, it's all old. It also has probably the biggest splat pool of all the Star Wars RPGs. They also have ones for Indiana Jones as well.

 

[Snekposter]

Yeah, it's all old. It also has probably the biggest splat pool of all the Star Wars RPGs. They also have ones for Indiana Jones as well.

You can also kludge together a Star Wars game using the D6 Space book that was available for the longest time for free on DriveThruRPG. Now its $1.79, so I'd advise finding a proper SW book for D6. Had a couple interesting games, mostly because the GM loves running bizarre multiverse shit that's barely even Star Wars. Did have a fun game that was mostly SW where our chars were on Naboo doing things of our own at a certain time, and ended up getting dragged along onto the Royal Yacht. Nothing quite like slapping the Jedi Council in the face with a severed Iridonian head, bright-red double-ended saber, and an "acquired" Sith Infiltrator as proof to get their heads out of their asses and take the Sith seriously.

 

[Juke and Jam]

If anyone is interested in buying Year Zero games, Free League Publishing just started their summer sale event today. Every released title has a price cut.

https://freeleaguepublishing.com/en/store/

 

[Marissa Moira]

So I've been reading about solo playing dungeons and dragons and you apparently are supposed to replace the GM with playing cards? Is this something that's widely used? Because I've never heard of it before.

 

[Big Nasty]

Yeah, it's all old. It also has probably the biggest splat pool of all the Star Wars RPGs. They also have ones for Indiana Jones as well.

WEG splatbooks were my source for Star Wars lore back when I was a kid. It's what got me interested in collecting RPGs.

 

[Ghostse]

So I've been reading about solo playing dungeons and dragons and you apparently are supposed to replace the GM with playing cards? Is this something that's widely used? Because I've never heard of it before.

I've heard of it before. I don't think solo D&D is very widely used, so I'm not sure how widely card-based GM is. There was a D&D like videogame with your character having an adventure based on card draws, but the name escapes me now. I've encountered official WotC modules where even with a GM, it uses card draws as a randomization feeder.

If you're looking for a solo experience with cards, I've heard good things about The Storymaster's Tales' Weirding Woods. I wanted to pick up a copy to try, but I missed the KS and their store was all sorts of UK-levels of fucky, so can't personally vouch for it.

fake edit: looks like they finally unfucked things, and a paper back version is coming out in January.

https://www.storymasterstales.com/the-storymasters-tales

 

[BScCollateral]

Eh. It depends. If youre in a small town, your GM might make you roll to avoid a deer or something once or twice in a campaign, but thats about it. But if youre driving in urban areas, then yeah, youre gonna be rolling dice to avoid getting lost/crashing into insane drivers/running over seemingly suicidal pedestrians. Thats pretty much how driving in an urban area works.

No. If you got into an accident rolling a 1 on 1d20, you'd be calling a tow truck every week, more or less.

 

[Corn Flakes]

No. If you got into an accident rolling a 1 on 1d20, you'd be calling a tow truck every week, more or less.

This. Skill rolls in RPGs aren't meant to simulate reality, they're meant to add tension to plot or combat-relevant moments.

If you rolled for every action you attempted, you'd be dead before you could leave the house in the morning.

 

[ZMOT]

Skill rolls in RPGs aren't meant to simulate reality.

so the numbers for the challenge are chosen at random?

their point is to simulate reality, however as @robobobo said you're not supposed to roll for mundane things you'll logically succeed with a very high chance anyway (for playtime reasons alone). skill checks also aren't random events.

So I've been reading about solo playing dungeons and dragons and you apparently are supposed to replace the GM with playing cards? Is this something that's widely used? Because I've never heard of it before.

I think cards are used for an oracle decks and such.

in the end they are just another RNG, you could dice or whatever for it. there are a few books about solo rpg and /tg/ has a general for it.

 

[Corn Flakes]

so the numbers for the challenge are chosen at random?

their point is to simulate reality, however as @robobobo said you're not supposed to roll for mundane things you'll logically succeed with a very high chance anyway (for playtime reasons alone). skill checks also aren't random events.

Ah, forget about it. You're being fucking pedantic.