His voice acting was so good, I actually thought he was a professional actor slumming it with TFS.
Team Four Star - Creators of a bunch of stuff to make people laugh trying to figure out what to do after a decade of comedically retelling Dragon Ball Z.
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I really enjoyed the Frieza Saga, though the way things got delayed and delayed as the Cell Saga went on got a bit ridiculous to the point where they had (justifiably) angry comments on their videos. I liked what they did but the way this it unceremoniously brought to a close and then shot in the head was the fucking worst. If it stays dead then fine I can live with that, but their views on non Dragon ball related stuff are in the toilet.
I'd like to hope they won't do a demo reel but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Also Takahata101 has a punchable face. MasakoX just looks weird but Taka has a face that just says "hit me, I own pugs, hit me"
I'd like to hope they won't do a demo reel but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Also Takahata101 has a punchable face. MasakoX just looks weird but Taka has a face that just says "hit me, I own pugs, hit me"
Allanon
kiwifarms.net
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- #23
TFS' original work is pretty terrible all around. They made a completely original cartoon at some point before they canceled DBZA - something called 'way of the fist' or some other generic name - and it was just a slog. Unfunny, cliche in the most uninteresting ways, bland art and animation, and extremely generic. Like a boring Jackie Chan Adventures without Jackie or Uncle.
DBZA was extremely high quality to the point that you can see how much everyone involved was truly passionate about it....but KaiserNeko was absolutely their bottleneck:
- Kaiser refused to let anyone even so much as help him edit, causing almost all of the massive schedule slips they suffered from
- At one point he pushed himself so hard he had a miniature breakdown and had to take a hiatus for his health, holding up everyone because their one editor was out of commission
- He was an utter sub simp and constantly fought with the rest of the cast who were either neutral or positive toward the dub. He always fought with the others over how to pronounce Goku, and is the reason MasakoX went with such a shrill voice for Goku
- I believe it's also implied he's the reason Krillin ended up with the whiny puppy voice when Lanipator demonstrated he could do a dead-on Sonny Strait copy if he wanted to
- He absolutely despised the Faulconer score and only started relenting after Ainztunes joined up in the Cell saga and started making hybrid songs that combined the Japanese track with Bruce's.
- He shipped Dende/Gohan and had big plans to have Dende get sassy and catty with Videl in Buu saga
The other thing that held them back was Takahata101, who would blow out his voice sometimes and because he insisted on playing every bombastic and memeable character that often held up everyone else. In particular they apparently had some fights over who would voice Cell. I believe it was down to Kaiser and Takahata in the end, but Kaiser still ended up doing a bunch of Cell's lines for editing purposes when Takahata would injure himself or get sick.
People kept suggesting that Kaiser hire someone - anyone - to help him edit, but despite the fact that other members of TFS were fully capable of editing and that they were literally making $12,000~ a month from Patreon at their height (plus their merch) Kaiser insisted no one could understand his notes or thought processes but him and it would just be impossible to collaborate. They also claimed that none of the money from Patreon would ever go to the production of DBZA, and so no matter how high the numbers got, Patrons were never to infer that meant DBZA would be released any faster. Instead, they just moved into a giant studio and got a bunch of paid employees for their let's plays and eventually one episode of an underwhelming cartoon.
Incidentally, they originally planned to have Markiplier voice either Hercule or Buu because he'd auditioned for a part in the Trunks movie but that fell through re: Hercule, and then they quit before Buu. Although they blame burnout, if I recall correctly I think Kaiser always hated the Buu saga - it was a different member's favorite, but I forget who at this point, probably Lanipator since he loves the concept of fusion. I get the feeling it was less about true burnout, and more that Kaiser was tired and couldn't be bothered to go through with the work of doing a saga he hated.
They had a special tier on Patreon that was $25 during November and December where they would send out Christmas cards for that particular tier, but on the second year they had it, they never bothered to actually send out those cards. They also used to have private Twitch editing streams every month for Patreons, but they had to eventually stop doing that because Kaiser was doing so little editing that there was nothing to show.
I actually think that the quality of the show continuously went up over time as their skill increased, but the trade-off was that they slowed down to completely unacceptable levels that they always made excuses and deflections over whenever someone would complain about it. Mostly Kaiser, as he would read early comments and pick fights with anyone who said negative things (he continues to do this even at his own subreddit). They actually did a lot of things that the casual DBZA viewer simply never appreciated, such as completely redrawing frames and fixing art/coloring/animation mistakes alongside their eventual ''fully original animation' stuff they started adding later on....but that really just hammers all the more why Kaiser was insane for trying to do it all on his own. According to his own testimony as late as the Cell saga he was still literally even doing the audio leveling for the different lines that TFS would record and send to him. Despite the fact that both Taka and Lani could have done that kind of thing, Kaiser was a total control freak who also did all the directing for the voice acting and chose the takes they used.
I'd argue that it's not even TFS burnout, it's just Kaiser burnout. The annual 'Toei lit our channel on fire, save us Funimation!' fiasco probably didn't help either, but considering how little time anyone else put into DBZA and the fact that all of their 'real work' opportunities came from their DBZA fame (including when Funimation let them write custom dialog for the characters they voiced in Xenoverse 1 and 2), and all the other examples of Kaiser swinging his dick around and demanding his way, I wouldn't be surprised if he all but unilaterally pulled the plug.
DBZA was extremely high quality to the point that you can see how much everyone involved was truly passionate about it....but KaiserNeko was absolutely their bottleneck:
- Kaiser refused to let anyone even so much as help him edit, causing almost all of the massive schedule slips they suffered from
- At one point he pushed himself so hard he had a miniature breakdown and had to take a hiatus for his health, holding up everyone because their one editor was out of commission
- He was an utter sub simp and constantly fought with the rest of the cast who were either neutral or positive toward the dub. He always fought with the others over how to pronounce Goku, and is the reason MasakoX went with such a shrill voice for Goku
- I believe it's also implied he's the reason Krillin ended up with the whiny puppy voice when Lanipator demonstrated he could do a dead-on Sonny Strait copy if he wanted to
- He absolutely despised the Faulconer score and only started relenting after Ainztunes joined up in the Cell saga and started making hybrid songs that combined the Japanese track with Bruce's.
- He shipped Dende/Gohan and had big plans to have Dende get sassy and catty with Videl in Buu saga
The other thing that held them back was Takahata101, who would blow out his voice sometimes and because he insisted on playing every bombastic and memeable character that often held up everyone else. In particular they apparently had some fights over who would voice Cell. I believe it was down to Kaiser and Takahata in the end, but Kaiser still ended up doing a bunch of Cell's lines for editing purposes when Takahata would injure himself or get sick.
People kept suggesting that Kaiser hire someone - anyone - to help him edit, but despite the fact that other members of TFS were fully capable of editing and that they were literally making $12,000~ a month from Patreon at their height (plus their merch) Kaiser insisted no one could understand his notes or thought processes but him and it would just be impossible to collaborate. They also claimed that none of the money from Patreon would ever go to the production of DBZA, and so no matter how high the numbers got, Patrons were never to infer that meant DBZA would be released any faster. Instead, they just moved into a giant studio and got a bunch of paid employees for their let's plays and eventually one episode of an underwhelming cartoon.
Incidentally, they originally planned to have Markiplier voice either Hercule or Buu because he'd auditioned for a part in the Trunks movie but that fell through re: Hercule, and then they quit before Buu. Although they blame burnout, if I recall correctly I think Kaiser always hated the Buu saga - it was a different member's favorite, but I forget who at this point, probably Lanipator since he loves the concept of fusion. I get the feeling it was less about true burnout, and more that Kaiser was tired and couldn't be bothered to go through with the work of doing a saga he hated.
They had a special tier on Patreon that was $25 during November and December where they would send out Christmas cards for that particular tier, but on the second year they had it, they never bothered to actually send out those cards. They also used to have private Twitch editing streams every month for Patreons, but they had to eventually stop doing that because Kaiser was doing so little editing that there was nothing to show.
I actually think that the quality of the show continuously went up over time as their skill increased, but the trade-off was that they slowed down to completely unacceptable levels that they always made excuses and deflections over whenever someone would complain about it. Mostly Kaiser, as he would read early comments and pick fights with anyone who said negative things (he continues to do this even at his own subreddit). They actually did a lot of things that the casual DBZA viewer simply never appreciated, such as completely redrawing frames and fixing art/coloring/animation mistakes alongside their eventual ''fully original animation' stuff they started adding later on....but that really just hammers all the more why Kaiser was insane for trying to do it all on his own. According to his own testimony as late as the Cell saga he was still literally even doing the audio leveling for the different lines that TFS would record and send to him. Despite the fact that both Taka and Lani could have done that kind of thing, Kaiser was a total control freak who also did all the directing for the voice acting and chose the takes they used.
I'd argue that it's not even TFS burnout, it's just Kaiser burnout. The annual 'Toei lit our channel on fire, save us Funimation!' fiasco probably didn't help either, but considering how little time anyone else put into DBZA and the fact that all of their 'real work' opportunities came from their DBZA fame (including when Funimation let them write custom dialog for the characters they voiced in Xenoverse 1 and 2), and all the other examples of Kaiser swinging his dick around and demanding his way, I wouldn't be surprised if he all but unilaterally pulled the plug.
If Taka doesn't have permanent voice damage from DBZA, that'd be a miracle given how much he blew out his vocal cords. It's a common injury in voice-acting, I get it, but the actor should be going out of their way to keep that from happening time and time again such as having to change a performance if it's too much on their voice (but keeping continuity probably prevents them from doing that) or only doing it once in a blue moon.
But yeah, I fully believe Kaiser was the sole reason they ended DBZA for being such a bitch. I'm sure he got on everyone's nerves that I think if it wasn't for him being one-fourth of the group and being the editor, they could've kicked him long ago. Like what would he have done to TFS if he was kicked from the group, cry about it on Twitter and to his husband?
- Highlight
- #25
He really is an odd chap.
The way he always had to shove in stuff about the original translations started as a bit of a send up of weeaboos and how they like their subs but then he showed himself to be just another weeaboo. I don't quite understand why he carries himself with this air of superiority, pronouncing Goku a certain way or complaining about certain things like a particular song in certain films.
He's being a snob about a cartoon he watched as a kid, in English.
I think the issue might be that they started off aping the show itself and it culminated in the Frieza saga which still makes me laugh, the Ginyu force and the whole Namekemania episodes are absolutely great, the best part about that is that Lanipator probably came up with that as he's a huge wrestling fan. Then you have Guru and Nail and LittleKuriboh doing Frieza, he's so fucking good that I actually think of him as the proper voice for Frieza.
It parodied the show and the story arc perfectly. Then they started getting lofty ideas that they could tell the story better in the Cell Saga. They got up their own arses due to their egos.
I think LittleKuriboh doing Frieza is what got Christopher Ayres to imitate his style. The comparison is completely uncanny that I don't think I'd believe them if they made an official statement it was just a coincidence and it was just to be as close to the original Japanese as possible.
Allanon
kiwifarms.net
There are ways to voice bombastic characters without hurting yourself, but Taka either didn't care or didn't know how because he's still ultimately an amateur voice actor. Perhaps ironically one of their earliest DBZA skits has Takahata teasing Vic for the way that Broly would destroy Vic's voice.
I'm sure they didn't kick Kaiser because he'd settled himself in so deeply as a key part of DBZA, and by the time they could have replaced him they were too close friends to do so. They ejected one of their founding members right at the beginning (Vegeta3986, over what was very obviously drama that they now deny) but he was just another voice actor, so they could afford to do it, I have a vague memory of Vegeta being like Kaiser in that he fought with Lani and Taka about whether to use sub or dub names for attacks and such, and contributed to the decision to voice Krillin the way they ultimately did (Lanipator claims he wanted to do it like Sonny because he's a filthy dub fanatic who always wanted the opportunity to just mimic his childhood heroes - that's why one of his requirements to join TFS was to be able to voice Vegeta)
Little known fact (for obvious reasons) but Chris Ayres portrayal of Frieza is heavily influenced by LK's version, and you can hear how it morphs more and more in to a variation of LK's over time. Chris even personally came to LK once and told him how much he liked his portrayal.
The show always felt like it was teasing/sharing in the weeb otaku of the DBZ fandom, in a true 'by dbz nerds for dbz nerds' fashion, but over time you could see more and more that Kaiser's personal quirks and hangups got pushed harder than anything. (Though he didn't always win, something he generally griped about at every opportunity) Frieza vs Freeza is less funny when you know it's just Kaiser being a sub-nut venting about his pet peeve. Stuff that Takahata and Lani got to do (Cell singing, Vegeta's final flash) retained the love of the show, but Kaiser got more and more uptight. Arguably it's a good balance, because Kaiser kept them from working in their Dumplin headcanon, and they kept him from having everyone call Goku 'Son', but Kaiser's sheer whininess seemed to get his way more than not. Notably, MasakoX is capable of sounding more like Sean Schemmel or Peter Kelamis, but Kaiser purposefully had him do the childish voice because of Nozawa. (You might think with a name like MasakoX it would have been his choice, but Masako didn't actually get any choices)
I don't hate that s3 and 4 went less off the rails than s1 and 2 and relied less on memes like ghost nappa and space ducks, because often the diversions and pure 'abridged humor' sequences are hit-and-miss, and I'd rather them just rely on the source material for humor. I also enjoyed that they combined humor with the darkness of the Cell saga, instead of just erasing the darkness. It's just a shame they dropped it before they could do Buu, which was much lighter than Cell (except near the end) and so they'll probably just end up with a reputation of only really being funny through the second season.
I believe they wanted Markiplier to voice Broly and have JonTron voice Paragus for the movie 8 abridged, but claimed Mark's schedule prevented this to come to fruition.
I agree, but my main issue with the Cell Saga is that they started trying to rewrite and actively shape their own version of the story, there are solid elements of comedy (Jimmy Firecracker and Mr Satan are two standouts) but they become few and far between as you see (probably) Kaiser trying to push his own narrative that he wants to shape. Buu saga definitely would have been a fun way to round things out, but I reckon they probably thought they were above going back to the silliness. They ended this saga on a serious note because they are serious storytellers with serious ideas. Going to Buu for Kaiser would have been a step down as he is no longer an abridged maker but a serious and well respected Artiste
Fucking hell, that would have gone down like a lead balloon in their overly simplistic safespace community. Even though JonTron is a solid performer with actual voice acting credits in stuff.
Can't fucking have that shit tho. We got patrons to sponge off.
starborn427614
kiwifarms.net
Glad that fell through. The people who voiced them in the film absolutely nailed it.
Allanon
kiwifarms.net
That sounds about right. I recall hearing that they also wanted Mark to participate in the Moustache video, but he was busy with something (maybe PAX?) and couldn't do it. I'm inclined to believe they probably weren't just blowing hot air, since he did quote their work and speak positively about the idea of voicing for them some time.
It's true, they definitely did start building up their own stories, though they primarily relied on fleshing out background information that never made it into the show, such as Android 16's backstory. It's entirely possible that Kaiser looked at all the silliness of the Great Saiyaman-World Tournament-Early Buu stuff and decided he just didn't have the energy to go through that, since there'd be nary an opportunity for him to go into serious artiste territory at all until Super Buu at least - who he said multiple times he didn't like and considered an inferior copy of Perfect Cell.
It's also possible, though, that they had a spat over whether or not to include the Otherworld Tournament and whether to Garlic Jr it and that was the final straw. I really suspect that Kaiser would have been for skipping/neutering the arc because it's filler, but its similarity to the Tournament of Power is so much so that the others probably couldn't resist wanting to do it just for all the Super references they'd be able to sneak in (as they can't dare abridge Super yet). It wouldn't surprise me if the burnout that ended it all came from some spat over that more than anything gradual, since their first big 'drop' was dropping Bojack suddenly, which they'd built up their own thing with since s1 and then abruptly claimed they had nothing to work with when they dropped it.
TFS is pretty politically neutral when it comes to DBZA; they're smart enough not to get too deep in the rabbit hole of politics, even though their personal twitter accounts are full of it. Likely they'd have cast Jontron and pretended they didn't know anything about any drama, because it would maximize viewers. Jontron was still in cryostasis around that time, though, so I doubt even if they tried it would have worked out on his end.
@Allanon
I would also like to point out something:
Kaiser was getting help in editing episodes.
For certain scenes in the series, Kaiser collaborated with Kirbopher (who was familiar with the TFS cast).
I find it funny because Kirbopher had his own share of troubles last year (Listed on The Broken Staircase spreadsheet and the fiasco that led to him losing his role in Fire Emblem).
I would also like to point out something:
Kaiser was getting help in editing episodes.
For certain scenes in the series, Kaiser collaborated with Kirbopher (who was familiar with the TFS cast).
I find it funny because Kirbopher had his own share of troubles last year (Listed on The Broken Staircase spreadsheet and the fiasco that led to him losing his role in Fire Emblem).
Allanon
kiwifarms.net
Didn't Kirbopher lose his role because of breaking the NDA, just like that other VA did, and the Broken Staircase thing ultimately turn into a nothingburger only tumblr cares about? Though it is interesting you point that out, because if he was finally getting some help with editing, why didn't he just go all the way and hire some people to help?
Yeah, Kirbopher broke NDA. Then there was some dogpiling by Twitterites.
Kirbopher was helping Kaiser during some of Season 2 and then in Season 3.
Not sure if he helped in Season 4, though.
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I'm surprised so many people dislike the Android/Cell sagas in DBZA. I personally dislike the zany non sequitur humor that's rife in Season 1 and still fairly prominent in Season 2, and more played into the character humor of Season 3/4.
I know he contributed some animation sequences and alterations for the Super Android 13 movie, I think he might have stuck around for a few of the Cell episodes, but I'm not 100% certain on that. I also know that Marc Swint (who also has some professional VA credits under his belt like Pokemon, Street Fighter V and Transformers: Cyberverse) did some editing and animation work around that time too before dropping out.
Allanon
kiwifarms.net
I agree with this assessment, but the genre shift of s1/2 to s3/4 is significant. 1 and 2 are classical/original style of abridging ala YGOA and Fate/Cero, while 3 and 4 is the more modern style of abridging ala SAOA and UBWA. It's less likely you'll like both versions than that you'll like one or the other more.
TFS is my go to for pointing out what the best and worst case scenario of getting "internet big with friends" looks like (aside from RT, but that's an entire company).
They get all the resources in the world and their production quality improves, they bring in outside talent they can pay for for some parts BUT at its core, DBZA remains true to what it originally was and what made it charming. Pretty much everyone wins when it comes to the main content.
On the other hand you have them pouring all their energy into side projects no one but them and their most die hard fans care about because they have their paypigs that will fund it. Long delays and little real transparency, because they aren't really beholden to anyone and not treating it like a proper business, with deadlines and obligations. Personal drama coupled with an emotional investment in the product means you can't easily substitute other capable creators when necessary, so that the weakest link will break the entire chain - over and over again.
In a way, it's good that they stopped where they stopped. The Cell Finale was a high note. Just a shame it took over a decade to get there.
They get all the resources in the world and their production quality improves, they bring in outside talent they can pay for for some parts BUT at its core, DBZA remains true to what it originally was and what made it charming. Pretty much everyone wins when it comes to the main content.
On the other hand you have them pouring all their energy into side projects no one but them and their most die hard fans care about because they have their paypigs that will fund it. Long delays and little real transparency, because they aren't really beholden to anyone and not treating it like a proper business, with deadlines and obligations. Personal drama coupled with an emotional investment in the product means you can't easily substitute other capable creators when necessary, so that the weakest link will break the entire chain - over and over again.
In a way, it's good that they stopped where they stopped. The Cell Finale was a high note. Just a shame it took over a decade to get there.
FriendlyPrimarina
kiwifarms.net
I thought I was the only one who noticed this. Normally I roll my eyes at the tards who twist every comment about children so they can scream FBI OPEN UP HURR DURR but some of the lines in the cell saga were really sketch. The following presented without comment (26s in if you don't want to watch the whole thing):
wtfNeedSignUp
kiwifarms.net
It's a pretty good observation I haven't thought of. But the problem is that SAOA works because the original material takes itself seriously, so adding silliness works. But DBZA is already silly, so trying to rewrite it doesn't work (especially when the tone itself changes to being more realistic to being more cartoony depending on what TFS thought works better for a given scene).
Jesus, it also has drug use. This calls for a Stone Toss:
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