The ABL Saga

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DangDirtyTrolls

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Rather ironic how the symptoms of Aspergers syndrome fit Chris to a T
 

teheviltwin

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DangDirtyTrolls said:
Rather ironic how the symptoms of Aspergers syndrome fit Chris to a T

A lot of people argue that Aspergers and High Functioning 'tism are the same thing... Not OPL of course.
 

DangDirtyTrolls

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NobleGreyHorse said:
Anchuent Christory said:
One thing that's always struck me about Chris, is that despite the fitting "manbaby" moniker, he's never really been somebody with the physical body of a man and the mind of a child. Just an adult male who acts like a child.

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what do you think the difference is?
Chris is a lot more cognizant about his situation than I think people give him credit for sometimes. We've seen him talking to Rocky about finding a group home for after Barb dies and he has admitted himself he couldn't handle finances on his own. In his own words, he's at least aware he's "sometimes retarded". Usually when it's more convenient for him to get others to do stuff for him.
 

NobleGreyHorse

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DangDirtyTrolls said:
Chris is a lot more cognizant about his situation than I think people give him credit for sometimes. We've seen him talking to Rocky about finding a group home for after Barb dies and he has admitted himself he couldn't handle finances on his own. In his own words, he's at least aware he's "sometimes retarded". Usually when it's more convenient for him to get others to do stuff for him.

Ah, okay! I missed the part where he was actually asking for help with a group home placement. Somehow I'd thought he was just asking her for some kind of tugboat upgrade to help with expenses post-Barb. That's unusually forward-thinking for Chris.
 

Anchuent Christory

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NobleGreyHorse said:
Anchuent Christory said:
One thing that's always struck me about Chris, is that despite the fitting "manbaby" moniker, he's never really been somebody with the physical body of a man and the mind of a child. Just an adult male who acts like a child.

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what do you think the difference is? How would somebody genuinely have the mind of a child, given that developmental delay or cognitive disability doesn't stop puberty? There's a documentary, I forget the title right offhand (shame, because it's quite moving), about two people with Down syndrome who are getting married. (I think the woman in the couple is the filmmaker's sister.) Both bride and groom definitely have a lot of optimism, and both still have their wishes for an ideal family -- they'd love to live completely independently and have kids -- but both of them also know that they are not equipped, financially or cognitively, for that kind of life. They're still going to be supported in a lot of ways by their parents and social workers their whole lives, and they're fully aware of that. To me, "mind of a child" would imply that the couple think taking care of a baby is totally easy and they're absolutely ready anytime.

What I'm trying to say is that, Chris, for the most part chooses to be childish or perhaps more appropriately, chooses to not grow up and behave like an adult and take on the associated responsibilities. Where as the other would be somebody who's mental development has halted and essentially has the mind of a child, despite physically being an adult.

The couple you mention are actually a good addition to the discussion, because they represent something that's almost the opposite of Chris. Two people who are aware, and more importantly accept their limitations and situation yet still dream and strive to break their bonds and be something more.
With Chris you have somebody who deliberately limits himself out of sheer laziness and entitlement and happily takes his life nowhere because he expects others to provide him with everything and perform the adult duties for him. I'm not suggesting that Chris doesn't have genuine, unavoidable issues however, but I see no reason why he couldn't be much further on in his life if he'd decided to put the effort in years ago.
 

Marvin

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There are options other than simply "mentally retarded, unable to progress" and "100% aware and deliberately made every choice."
 

Kosher Dill

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NobleGreyHorse said:
Ah, okay! I missed the part where he was actually asking for help with a group home placement. Somehow I'd thought he was just asking her for some kind of tugboat upgrade to help with expenses post-Barb. That's unusually forward-thinking for Chris.
No, he was just looking for a tugboat upgrade. "Medicaid waivers" is what it's called, and it's a way to get funding for medical/mental-health services in-home instead of in a state institution. He was specifically looking to make sure he never has to set foot in any sort of structured environment. Credit where credit's due though: it was forward-thinking, and probably one of the few genuinely helpful things Rocky did for Chris.
 

teheviltwin

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Anchuent Christory said:
NobleGreyHorse said:
Anchuent Christory said:
One thing that's always struck me about Chris, is that despite the fitting "manbaby" moniker, he's never really been somebody with the physical body of a man and the mind of a child. Just an adult male who acts like a child.

I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but what do you think the difference is? How would somebody genuinely have the mind of a child, given that developmental delay or cognitive disability doesn't stop puberty? There's a documentary, I forget the title right offhand (shame, because it's quite moving), about two people with Down syndrome who are getting married. (I think the woman in the couple is the filmmaker's sister.) Both bride and groom definitely have a lot of optimism, and both still have their wishes for an ideal family -- they'd love to live completely independently and have kids -- but both of them also know that they are not equipped, financially or cognitively, for that kind of life. They're still going to be supported in a lot of ways by their parents and social workers their whole lives, and they're fully aware of that. To me, "mind of a child" would imply that the couple think taking care of a baby is totally easy and they're absolutely ready anytime.

What I'm trying to say is that, Chris, for the most part chooses to be childish or perhaps more appropriately, chooses to not grow up and behave like an adult and take on the associated responsibilities. Where as the other would be somebody who's mental development has halted and essentially has the mind of a child, despite physically being an adult.

The couple you mention are actually a good addition to the discussion, because they represent something that's almost the opposite of Chris. Two people who are aware, and more importantly accept their limitations and situation yet still dream and strive to break their bonds and be something more.
With Chris you have somebody who deliberately limits himself out of sheer laziness and entitlement and happily takes his life nowhere because he expects others to provide him with everything and perform the adult duties for him. I'm not suggesting that Chris doesn't have genuine, unavoidable issues however, but I see no reason why he couldn't be much further on in his life if he'd decided to put the effort in years ago.


IMHO because a couple of very important issues related to ASD in particular have never been addressed in OPL he doesn't really have the ability to just grow up. In particular Theory of mind. This leads to Chris reacting weirdly to a lot of situations because he does not understand that the people he interacts with do not know what he does or feel the way he feels. ToM is something Chris should have been taught in special school as a child.

He's still a lazy, fat waste of space but he doesn't understand that or why anyone else would think that. He's not intellectually a child, he's emotionally a child.

EDIT: HOWAMDOPOST!?
 

Anchuent Christory

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teheviltwin said:
IMHO because a couple of very important issues related to ASD in particular have never been addressed in OPL he doesn't really have the ability to just grow up. In particular Theory of mind. This leads to Chris reacting weirdly to a lot of situations because he does not understand that the people he interacts with do not know what he does or feel the way he feels. ToM is something Chris should have been taught in special school as a child.

He's still a lazy, fat waste of space but he doesn't understand that or why anyone else would think that. He's not intellectually a child, he's emotionally a child.

EDIT: HOWAMDOPOST!?

Oh, I'm certainly not suggesting that Chris is completely responsible for everything and he would be normal if he just grew up. He definitely has autism and difficulties associated with it, but I personally think that the very fact that he has the 'tism has sheltered him from being called out on a lot of his bullshit. It also empowers him to behave in certain ways.

I just personally think that Chris isn't as "retarded" as many others think he is.

In the last Facebook post we got, he mentioned Barb worrying about how the graphic nature of Resident evil will effect his mind. Barb certainly thinks her 31 year old son has the mind of a child. Which is another insight into his fucked up upbringing.
 

BigAltheGreat921

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I think Chris simply doesn't understand what autism is or how it works, or mental health in general. He just uses it as an excuse to mistreat other people and do nothing but play video games and dream about sex all day.
 

Anchuent Christory

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Marvin said:
There are options other than simply "mentally retarded, unable to progress" and "100% aware and deliberately made every choice."

oh, absolutely, I was just trying to illustrate the difference.
 

teheviltwin

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Anchuent Christory said:
teheviltwin said:
IMHO because a couple of very important issues related to ASD in particular have never been addressed in OPL he doesn't really have the ability to just grow up. In particular Theory of mind. This leads to Chris reacting weirdly to a lot of situations because he does not understand that the people he interacts with do not know what he does or feel the way he feels. ToM is something Chris should have been taught in special school as a child.

He's still a lazy, fat waste of space but he doesn't understand that or why anyone else would think that. He's not intellectually a child, he's emotionally a child.

EDIT: HOWAMDOPOST!?

Oh, I'm certainly not suggesting that Chris is completely responsible for everything and he would be normal if he just grew up. He definitely has autism and difficulties associated with it, but I personally think that the very fact that he has the 'tism has sheltered him from being called out on a lot of his bullshit. It also empowers him to behave in certain ways.

I just personally think that Chris isn't as "retarded" as many others think he is.

In the last Facebook post we got, he mentioned Barb worrying about how the graphic nature of Resident evil will effect his mind. Barb certainly thinks her 31 year old son has the mind of a child. Which is another insight into his fucked up upbringing.

I agree that people not wanting to hurt his special feelings and being reluctant to give him open criticism throughout his life has allowed him to get away with all kinds of crap.

Barb is an absolute monster IMHO. She refused to send Chris to special ed and then didn't research how to teach him social skills at home. Chris's mind is also very literal and you just know that over the years Barb has been responsible for things like... "You're the best artist in your school", "Household chores are TORTURES"*, "You are the most handsome young man." etc. etc. etc.


*Didn't Barb stop cooking for her family over something really petty? Can't remember the exact details.
 

pickleniggo

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teheviltwin said:
Barb is an absolute monster IMHO. She refused to send Chris to special ed and then didn't research how to teach him social skills at home. Chris's mind is also very literal and you just know that over the years Barb has been responsible for things like... "You're the best artist in your school", "Household chores are TORTURES"*, "You are the most handsome young man." etc. etc. etc.


*Didn't Barb stop cooking for her family over something really petty? Can't remember the exact details.

Thisthisthis.
Also yeah Barb stopped cooking because one time Chris and Bob weren't in the mood for whatever she'd made.
 

Anchuent Christory

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I've often wondered if Barb has some form of un-diagnosed autism, because she's clearly more than just a massive bitch. And sometimes the traits both her and Chris display are eerily similar.
 

Himawari

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I'm not sure Barb has autism, but I do get the vibe that she has some sort of undiagnosed (or maybe diagnosed but then promptly forgotten because she doesn't give a shit) psychological disorder. Hoarding a child - especially a grown, adult child - is not something a mentally healthy individual does.
 

teheviltwin

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Anchuent Christory said:
I've often wondered if Barb has some form of un-diagnosed autism, because she's clearly more than just a massive bitch. And sometimes the traits both her and Chris display are eerily similar.

My diagnosis (as a pro armchair psychiatrist :tomgirl: ) is histrionic personality disorder.
 

Anchuent Christory

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Himawari said:
I'm not sure Barb has autism, but I do get the vibe that she has some sort of undiagnosed (or maybe diagnosed but then promptly forgotten because she doesn't give a shit) psychological disorder. Hoarding a child - especially a grown, adult child - is not something a mentally healthy individual does.

Frankly, I think it's impossible to separate unavoidable mental problems from severe personality issues when it comes to the Chandlers.
 

BillRiley

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DangDirtyTrolls said:
BillRiley said:
Just when he began to have difficulty distinguishing between the two is difficult to say, though it was probably a gradual process. Going on the admittedly scanty information that we have, it's possible a major break came after his traumatic High School graduation, as evidenced in both his comics and his behavior in Mary Lee Walsh's office.

When he came up with the "Toon World" idea is anyone's guess.
I think the blurring came before his graduation. Check out these two pages from Sonichu issue #7: here and here. Magi-chan talks about how Bionic 'jumped out of a locker' at Manchester High School and gives way too specific of a date and time for Chris to be making it all up. Plus the date he gives vastly pre-dates his graduation.

I think rather than at some point he started to believe cartoons were real, it's the other way round. He has never believed they're not real.

Those are all good points. It may very well be that Chris always assumed his "Cwcville" safe place was real, and the Roger Rabbit "Toon World" concept merely affirmed what he already "knew" in his autistic little noggin. Though of course it's impossible to tell without closer questioning, and by now even Chris may not remember.
 

drmccoy

He's got Autism, Jim.
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Anchuent Christory said:
I've often wondered if Barb has some form of un-diagnosed autism, because she's clearly more than just a massive bitch. And sometimes the traits both her and Chris display are eerily similar.

If you read her response to Miryamoto, she sure does sound like Chris. I've always thought she might have something that went undiagnosed. The hoarding could be a outgrowth of that.
 

Henry Bemis

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Anchuent Christory said:
I've often wondered if Barb has some form of un-diagnosed autism, because she's clearly more than just a massive bitch. And sometimes the traits both her and Chris display are eerily similar.

According to the autism papers, Chris has a maternal cousin with autism (pretty severe, if I remember correctly). So it's possible Chris's condition could be a Weston thing, exacerbated by Bob 'n' Barb's advanced ages, as the popular theory goes.

(It's also possible that the Chandler half of the family has it somewhere in their lineage. But the point is that the Punnett squares were not optimistic that sweaty night in May 1981.)
 
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