The case for a second American Civil War - Enough talk about avoiding it.

Sopressata

kiwifarms.net
I don’t know about a Civil War, I think we are already in one, it’s a cultural war, but you sound like a lot of people are feeling right now.

I know for me I will forever be terrified of the government, I was already skeptical but I don’t think I will ever be able to return to a life where I don’t expect some random bureaucrat to decide one day to cancel everything that makes my life worth living, forbid me to leave my home and see friends and family, take my job for no fucking reason and ban me from traveling. This has fucked me up so badly I think about moving to a rural area constantly like you. I lived in a rural area growing up so I know what it’s like and I could do it again easily. I live in a large city right now

As far as hating people I am on board there. I always gave people the benefit of the doubt previously. But now I just assume that most people I pass on the street would gleefully weld me inside my home if the media told them to do it. I will never assume good in strangers ever again. We are very divided . There are well adjusted sane people and neurotic doomers who believe everything “medical experts” say and they will probably wear masks forever. These are the same people who scream about racism and cancel anyone or anything they can as a hobby. These two groups hate one another. One group is viewed as selfish murderers for wanting to go for a haircut and go to work and the other is convinced they are saving lives by trashing the economy and increasing the suicide rates all over the world.

I was a naïve trusting a retard before all of this, I never gave politics and government that much thought on a daily basis like I do now. I never thought about places being red or blue as far as population because people seemed to pretty much coexist until now. Now I want as far away from blue as possible because I feel strong hatred for the people who are prolonging this hell and judging everyone for literally breathing fresh air.

I think it will get worse , there already is a war of sorts. Last summer there were three channels. Trump/election, racism and COVID, now that Trump is out of the picture we are back to nonstop COVID, as more places start reopening and restrictions loosen we are going to switch the channel again. I have a strong feeling this summer will be non stop racial strife again and this may sound crazy but I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens with the power grid so it won’t matter where you are. It feels like we are being deliberately demoralized and kept anxious and stressed and fearful. More to come with this. The cultural war is already underway.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
kiwifarms.net
As a younger person I'm forced to ask why you stupid fucking people trusted these bastards in the first place.

You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic.

Boomers were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.
 

LMFAOForgotPw

It’s HIV not... ya know
kiwifarms.net
People always talk about civil war, but what worries me is I don’t hear plans for after. Every civil war or regime change in the past 50+ years has led to the same small group of people having power essentially. Haven’t really seen examples of “great regime change” That seems to be the real source of the woes of the world and I personally think time/energy spent towards doom posting could be better spent on how to change that from being a possibility.

Not saying one isn’t possible, but only if states start telling the feds to fuck off aside from just drugs. Thing is that would probably be used to end up with an even worse government than we have. Idk, I’m optimistic for change from within because it’s the only option I see that long term makes things better.
 

Arm Pit Cream

5%er, Jupiterian Philosopher, Anglophobe, CSIS
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic.
wow I voted libertarian the Republic is now saved, I am morally superior according to you since you don't vote, Mr.Pessimist
 

DeadFish

I've may have made some mistakes...
kiwifarms.net
People always talk about civil war, but what worries me is I don’t hear plans for after. Every civil war or regime change in the past 50+ years has led to the same small group of people having power essentially. Haven’t really seen examples of “great regime change” That seems to be the real source of the woes of the world and I personally think time/energy spent towards doom posting could be better spent on how to change that from being a possibility.

Not saying one isn’t possible, but only if states start telling the feds to fuck off aside from just drugs. Thing is that would probably be used to end up with an even worse government than we have. Idk, I’m optimistic for change from within because it’s the only option I see that long term makes things better.
There is no vision of what comes after. It's going be a slap fight until both sides can't control the other any more. It's going be an era of disintegration.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
kiwifarms.net
I would like to clarify that despite my previous comments I am all in favor of a Second Civil War. The way I see it, a bunch of people I absolutely despise will fucking die on both sides while my irrelevant neck of the woods will more than likely see no action at all.

I've actually had a frequent daydream about just this sort of thing. I call it The American Reckoning, less a civil conflict in the conventional sense and more one large and chaotic historical episode with the potential to last three or four generations. An era where all of the shortcuts and oversights we've arrogantly allowed to exist on our watch come back to haunt us with a vengeance. Common culture being overtaken by two caricatures of liberal and conservative, each representing their worst aspects, made more and more extreme by the media. The same way one would has to slowly and carefully enrich the precious Uranium 235 and Plutonium 239 materials you would eventually place into the casket of a nuclear warhead.

And much like nuclear fission when these two forces annhilate each other the bang will be incredible. Completely uncontrollable, so powerful that the country won't really break up so much as it will fly apart. I'm not talking like Day of the Rope or that other nonsense, I mean like bodies being burned in the streets just to prevent the spread of cholera and people killing each other over bread lines. There'll be no sides after a few short years of fighting, just people struggling to survive as things steadily get worse and worse. Americans don't know how to deal with a societal collapse, they'll be completely unprepared and starve by the millions, to say nothing of things like what the loss of easy medical care and basic infrastructure will cause.

The whole world will go with us too. Europe will fall apart, the Middle East will pretty much instantly dissolve and Africa will go back to its natural state. Even China and Russia, who both believe they are prepared for the United States to collapse, will suffer greatly as they have surely underestimated just how disruptive the loss of the American economy will be to the rest of the world. China will probably experience its own conflict that will make the Cultural Revolution look like a joke.

I'm disgusted enough with the world to eagerly await this. You should stop and think about it though, whoever you are, wherever you are. Do you want this too? Because that's what you're going to get. The first and foremost fallacy any of the belligerents have in a civil war is the belief that they will have control of the situation once chaos starts to set in.

But no bro, you've got this. I'm just a pessimist after all. We're never right about anything.
 
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Drag-on Knight 91873

"Listen man, it's complicated."
kiwifarms.net
As a younger person I'm forced to ask why you stupid fucking people trusted these bastards in the first place.

You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic.

Boomers were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.
You really asked a mouthful there. I could just say "See Yuri Bezmenov," but I think blaming communism for everything is an oversimplification and implies more intent on ideological subversion than what is warranted.

The problem is an intergenerational one that started IMO with the hippies and subsequent gaslighting of them as noble pacifists. They were not. They were directionless teenagers that didn't like the iron fist leadership of the Silent generation. Unfortunately, these young boomers were willing to listen to any charismatic or artistic leader most notably Charles Manson who convinced his harem of women to murder a rising actress. Extreme example, but the mindset of the hippies was to follow the most ostentatious counter-culture artists of that time. Boomers, like Mayor Durkan refer to the Summer of Love to get normies to think of Woodstock. To which the counter to that overrated concert is Altamont. These hippies had two choices: sell out and become productive yuppies or become adjunct professors. These people were definitely subverted based on how the myth of the noble hippie comes from them.

The culture of the Young Boomers set the cultural archetype for later generations. Gen X effectively doubled down on everything the hippies started. Part of it was due to the rising permissiveness of divorce which led to them becoming the first latchkey generation, which created the basis to hold Silent generation values like the nuclear family into doubt. The other part is Gen X culture was heavily invested in literary deconstruction, where the goal of the art critic is to break down long-standing archetypes to expose the hypocrisy. The target for this generation was often the Silent generation. Married with Children, as much as I love the show, is a deconstructionist take on 50s-60s sitcoms and the nuclear family. Academic Agent also cites Daria as an example of the attitude of the Gen Xer and from her, you can see how the Atheist thought leaders were created. This generation, I don't think anyways, was subverted like the hippies were, but their persistent cynicism did make them numb to the world around them and let's be honest, Kiwi Farms is a site that indulges in this attitude.

Now we're on to the Millenials which I would describe as a massive trainwreck. Heinlein in Starship Troopers was completely right about how the social scientists and child psychologists fucked up. All those hippies mentioned earlier have now effected public school policy by using their knowledge in psychology and child development to create a bizarre parallel society where socialization is the only valuable activity for a student to study. The attitude of "who you know, not what you know," is the defining characteristic of this generation. Aside from the obvious avoidance of ugly, talented people, we can now see why Cancel culture looks the way it does. Unlike previous generations where talent and persistence were alternate ways to gain status, group acceptance was the sole means of gaining status and for many, bragging was a necessary tool to do so, which led to this generation's narcissism. Tim Pool is peak Millenial; not that bright, wise, or even all that nice, but whatever achievements he's created, he brags about it to such a degree that his fans think he's an amazing journalist. It's no coincidence that lolcows are typically in this generation. Yes, some are subverted such as AOC and the Justice Democrats, but in general, it doesn't matter that much because the rest of them are clout chasers anyways.

 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
kiwifarms.net
They were directionless teenagers that didn't like the iron fist leadership of the Silent Generation.
I could comment on a lot of your post at various points but I think I can sum up my opinion readily by saying that I completely understand why the generation before the Silent were so harsh on their kids. Spare the rod spoil the child, evidently. I guess my grandfather got horsewhipped when he misbehaved for a reason. For all the talk Boomers have about Millenials lacking discipline they were surely raised with none of it themselves.

However I don't think narrowing the blame down to a cultural movement really lowers the yield of what I said at all. Boomers themselves are to blame for being so gullible. Misleading cultural institutions do not gain power unless the complacent masses allow them to do so, and in a democracy especially this makes every person registered to vote guilty of all of the crimes and mistakes of their country. I also think there were more than the Hippies to blame for our current situation, but I do agree they were a huge part of it.

I also think Yuri Bezemov is a fraud. He's the living embodiment of that joke where Russians claim to have invented everything and written every story. I think had there been no Soviet interference at all the conditions would still have been ripe for the culture of complacency and gullibility that is set to devour us all.
 
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Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I think it will get worse , there already is a war of sorts. Last summer there were three channels. Trump/election, racism and COVID, now that Trump is out of the picture we are back to nonstop COVID, as more places start reopening and restrictions loosen we are going to switch the channel again. I have a strong feeling this summer will be non stop racial strife again and this may sound crazy but I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens with the power grid so it won’t matter where you are. It feels like we are being deliberately demoralized and kept anxious and stressed and fearful. More to come with this. The cultural war is already underway.
I don't even want to think about another summer like summer of 2020, I felt fear seeing people burn shit down that I didn't even feel when I watched the twin towers disintegrate, because that was at least an attack by outsiders, this was my fellow Americans losing their minds and we didn't know how far it was going to go in the early days.


There is no vision of what comes after. It's going be a slap fight until both sides can't control the other any more. It's going be an era of disintegration.
It's true, a second Civil War isn't going to actually solve anything, it's going to disintegrate everything, but the question is whether that's preferable to a world of absolute tyranny which is what the Woke are trying to build, I guess that's debatable.

But disintegrating is what the human race seems to be doing in the 21st century, we seem to be at our wit's end as a species, we've been getting by with the idea that we leave the world a little better for the next generation than what we had and so on, but now we seem to have progressed to a point that we're realizing that some problems are simply impossible to solve, their insurmountable for us as a species.

Everything we choose to try doesn't seem to work, I think the last big hurrah for the optimistic hope for the future was the election of Obama and the first few years after, we felt like we made the right choice and that was going to lead to things starting to get better, but it was a lie, instead everything only got worse, to such a degree that it feels like a sick joke.

I definitely have a pretty "fuck it" attitude because of that, I was a big believer in the Obama movement but I got burned very badly by that and what else can we really do now? We tried doing the opposite of Obama with Trump and that didn't work either, what more can we really do now?

I would like to clarify that despite my previous comments I am all in favor of a Second Civil War. The way I see it, a bunch of people I absolutely despise will fucking die on both sides while my irrelevant neck of the woods will more than likely see no action at all.

I've actually had a frequent daydream about just this sort of thing. I call the The American Reckoning, less a civil conflict in the conventional sense and more one large and chaotic historical episode with the potential to last three or four generations. An era where all of the shortcuts and oversights we've arrogantly allowed to exist on our watch come back to haunt us with a vengeance. Common culture being overtaken by two caricatures of liberal and conservative, each representing their worst aspects, made more and more extreme by the media. The same way one would has to slowly and carefully enrich the precious Uranium 235 and Plutonium 239 materials you would eventually place into the casket of a nuclear warhead.

And much like nuclear fission when these two forces annhilate each other the bang will be incredible. Completely uncontrollable, so powerful that the country won't really break up so much as it will fly apart. I'm not talking like Day of the Rope or that other nonsense, I mean like bodies being burned in the streets just to prevent the spread of cholera and people killing each other over bread lines. There'll be no sides after a few short years of fighting, just people struggling to survive as things steadily get worse and worse. Americans don't know how to deal with a societal collapse, they'll be completely unprepared and starve by the millions, to say nothing of things like what the loss of easy medical care and basic infrastructure will cause.

The whole world will go with us too. Europe will fall apart, the Middle East will pretty much instantly dissolve and Africa will go back to its natural state. Even China and Russia, who both believe they are prepared for the United States to collapse, will suffer greatly as they have surely underestimated just how disruptive the loss of the American economy will be to the rest of the world. China will probably experience its own conflict that will make the Cultural Revolution look like a joke.

I'm disgusted enough with the world to eagerly await this. You should stop and think about it though, whoever you are, wherever you are. Do you want this too? Because that's what you're going to get. The first and foremost fallacy any of the belligerents have in a civil war is the belief that they will have control of the situation once chaos starts to set in.

But no bro, you've got this. I'm just a pessimist after all. We're never right about anything.
Well ain't you just Mr Sunshine? You're not wrong though.

People accuse me of being a Doomer but you put me to shame, again, you're not wrong though.


You really asked a mouthful there. I could just say "See Yuri Bezmenov," but I think blaming communism for everything is an oversimplification and implies more intent on ideological subversion than what is warranted.

The problem is an intergenerational one that started IMO with the hippies and subsequent gaslighting of them as noble pacifists. They were not. They were directionless teenagers that didn't like the iron fist leadership of the Silent generation. Unfortunately, these young boomers were willing to listen to any charismatic or artistic leader most notably Charles Manson who convinced his harem of women to murder a rising actress. Extreme example, but the mindset of the hippies was to follow the most ostentatious counter-culture artists of that time. Boomers, like Mayor Durkan refer to the Summer of Love to get normies to think of Woodstock. To which the counter to that overrated concert is Altamont. These hippies had two choices: sell out and become productive yuppies or become adjunct professors. These people were definitely subverted based on how the myth of the noble hippie comes from them.

The culture of the Young Boomers set the cultural archetype for later generations. Gen X effectively doubled down on everything the hippies started. Part of it was due to the rising permissiveness of divorce which led to them becoming the first latchkey generation, which created the basis to hold Silent generation values like the nuclear family into doubt. The other part is Gen X culture was heavily invested in literary deconstruction, where the goal of the art critic is to break down long-standing archetypes to expose the hypocrisy. The target for this generation was often the Silent generation. Married with Children, as much as I love the show, is a deconstructionist take on 50s-60s sitcoms and the nuclear family. Academic Agent also cites Daria as an example of the attitude of the Gen Xer and from her, you can see how the Atheist thought leaders were created. This generation, I don't think anyways, was subverted like the hippies were, but their persistent cynicism did make them numb to the world around them and let's be honest, Kiwi Farms is a site that indulges in this attitude.

Now we're on to the Millenials which I would describe as a massive trainwreck. Heinlein in Starship Troopers was completely right about how the social scientists and child psychologists fucked up. All those hippies mentioned earlier have now effected public school policy by using their knowledge in psychology and child development to create a bizarre parallel society where socialization is the only valuable activity for a student to study. The attitude of "who you know, not what you know," is the defining characteristic of this generation. Aside from the obvious avoidance of ugly, talented people, we can now see why Cancel culture looks the way it does. Unlike previous generations where talent and persistence were alternate ways to gain status, group acceptance was the sole means of gaining status and for many, bragging was a necessary tool to do so, which led to this generation's narcissism. Tim Pool is peak Millenial; not that bright, wise, or even all that nice, but whatever achievements he's created, he brags about it to such a degree that his fans think he's an amazing journalist. It's no coincidence that lolcows are typically in this generation. Yes, some are subverted such as AOC and the Justice Democrats, but in general, it doesn't matter that much because the rest of them are clout chasers anyways.

You mention literary deconstruction, that eventually started to bleed into the rest of culture too, I noticed there was a huge wave of deconstructionist media in the year 2012, the early days of Woke, movies like The Cabin In The Woods, Seven Psychopaths and video games like Spec Ops: The Line (and Bioshock Infinite from the following year)

That kind of stuff felt exciting and fresh at the time, but it set a bad tone, eventually resulting in deconstructionism or as they like to call it: "subverting your expectations" basically being the default mode for pop culture now, culminating in The Last Jedi.

The trouble with that is it's like a magician giving away the secret to his tricks, it takes all the "magic" out of it.

Art matters, culture matters, if all we're doing at the moment is basically destroying art and culture, setting fire to it all, carving a path of destruction through it, what does that say about society as a whole if our culture is just reflective of our society?
 

DeadFish

I've may have made some mistakes...
kiwifarms.net
It's true, a second Civil War isn't going to actually solve anything, it's going to disintegrate everything, but the question is whether that's preferable to a world of absolute tyranny which is what the Woke are trying to build, I guess that's debatable.

But disintegrating is what the human race seems to be doing in the 21st century, we seem to be at our wit's end as a species, we've been getting by with the idea that we leave the world a little better for the next generation than what we had and so on, but now we seem to have progressed to a point that we're realizing that some problems are simply impossible to solve, their insurmountable for us as a species.
Who said dissentgration will be a result of a civil war?

Take Texas and the recent snow storm. The grid will be fine. Everything else related to water won't. All those pipes bursting? Lots of water damage. A lot of buildings are going have weak points. That's going lead to many collapsing eventually. Pipes under ground? That's start of many a sink hole. Eventually those sink holes will grow. That will destroy infrastructure such as roads and buildings. Ruining of infrastructure means destruction of the technology and systems used to ensure control and conformity. So from this re primitivization you'll see micro polities form then try to break off.

Kinda how rome evolved as a splinter here and a splinter there broke off.
 

Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Who said dissentgration will be a result of a civil war?

Take Texas and the recent snow storm. The grid will be fine. Everything else related to water won't. All those pipes bursting? Lots of water damage. A lot of buildings are going have weak points. That's going lead to many collapsing eventually. Pipes under ground? That's start of many a sink hole. Eventually those sink holes will grow. That will destroy infrastructure such as roads and buildings. Ruining of infrastructure means destruction of the technology and systems used to ensure control and conformity. So from this re primitivization you'll see micro polities form then try to break off.

Kinda how rome evolved as a splinter here and a splinter there broke off.
That was my point, we seem to be doing a lot of disintegrating in the 21st century, civil war or not.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
kiwifarms.net
Well ain't you just Mr Sunshine? You're not wrong though.

People accuse me of being a Doomer but you put me to shame, again, you're not wrong though.
Its worth noting that I don't voice my negative opinions for the smug satisfaction of being correct when the world burns down around me. The reality is that its either voice them, or stare at the wall all day and still feel the same way.

Even if I'm incorrect about the scale of the devastion, it should still remind people that destruction, disease, famine, rape, torture and other senseless suffering is what war is all about. And that those things are inevitable if war occurs. I don't think people are aware of what they stand to lose in the event that a war does occur. I'm fine with it because I'm resigned to the idea. Other people, not so much I wager.

After all, don't go to war if you aren't willing to do everything it takes to win. This whole thread starts with a man lamenting senseless destruction on a relatively small scale; I'd be interested to see how much of it he'd be willing to see on a large scale before he might get second thoughts about it.
 

Orion Balls Deux

Macho Mochi Man!
kiwifarms.net
Actually don't need to kill or destroy anything. This is a war of symbolism and perspective management.

Alot of farmers here have posted about the upcoming inflation.

How can that be exploited?

Well there this guy who has been turning dollar bills into art. So he takes a dollar bill, he draws on it then tries to use his art as a unit of barter to pay his bills. So he can turn his one dollar bill into something worth twenty, fifty or whatever he can convince he is paying what his art is worth.

It's totally legal.

So what can be done is many anti woke artists can try the same. Turn their money into art and thus into a unit of barter.

This can be done on a massive scale as form of protest.

The protest will be about how the us governments policies are devaluing the american dollar. If the feds get bitchy about this you can use their reaction as "proof" that yes they are setting policy hurting the dollar. They're over reacting cause yes something you just made is worth more then worlds currency. This will discredit the state and make them lose power. It would also make people lose more faith in the dollar devalue the dollars leads to a weaker american government. If they don't do shit? Continue making your own currency and replace the us dollar.
That sort of thing already exists in places where people work the land. A dozen brown eggs gets you a gallon of fresh milk. An old junker can be traded to the scrap man for a plow attachment.
 

Dom Cruise

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Its worth noting that I don't voice my negative opinions for the smug satisfaction of being correct when the world burns down around me. The reality is that its either voice them, or stare at the wall all day and still feel the same way.

Even if I'm incorrect about the scale of the devastion, it should still remind people that destruction, disease, famine, rape, torture and other senseless suffering is what war is all about. And that those things are inevitable if war occurs. I don't think people are aware of what they stand to lose in the event that a war does occur. I'm fine with it because I'm resigned to the idea. Other people, not so much I wager.

After all, don't go to war if you aren't willing to do everything it takes to win. This whole thread starts with a man lamenting senseless destruction on a relatively small scale; I'd be interested to see how much of it he'd be willing to see on a large scale before he might get second thoughts about it.
We have the saying "war is Hell" for a reason.

Did you ever see the Joe Dante directed episode of the TV series Masters of Horror, Homecoming? Which to some degree was about the deep divide that exists in American culture as far back as the year 2005, it ends with the quote "you will see you the true face of war, the face of Hell"
 

Austrian Conscript 1915

Ayyy lmao
kiwifarms.net
We have the saying "war is Hell" for a reason.

Did you ever see the Joe Dante directed episode of the TV series Masters of Horror, Homecoming? Which to some degree was about the deep divide that exists in American culture as far back as the year 2005, it ends with the quote "you will see you the true face of war, the face of Hell"
war isn't hell dummy. that phrase comes from modern war. back in the day things were different. people died all the time so volunteering for the military was no big deal, and was even welcomed change for many people who wanted to travel the world.

modern war is different. you can't just say "war is hell" when wars were different. you're comparing apples to oranges
 

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