The case for a second American Civil War - Enough talk about avoiding it.

[mindlessobserver]

I expect we are entering a period of history very similar to that of the early renaissance. When you want to talk about the most deadly inventions ever crafted by the hand of man, nothing and I mean nothing humans have created has killed more people then the printing press. It took over a century for Germany to recover to its pre-30 years war population. The American and French Revolutions would have been impossible without it. The Printing Press didn't just upset the standing social order in the West, it DESTROYED it. And millions of lives along the way.

But it also gave us the scientific method, the birth of liberalism and representative republics. Which in turn allowed the West to essentially conquer the world in the 19th century. It only took two centuries of murder and mayhem to sort out. Increasingly I have concluded the Internet and Mass Media is an invention on the same scale to this. Possibly even more dangerous then the Printing Press, because the proliferation of information has made the "economy of thought" cheap. In a market of infinite choice, you will go for what confirms your own biases. I find myself guilty of this repeatedly. Go over to A&N and tell them Biden is doing a good job and just watch the meltdown and neg ratings. I fear the long term psychological consequences of this, especially since the only way for any information to rise above the infinite sea of it is if it is somehow "engaging". Meaning "Fear and Rage are the order the of the day rather then "Logic and Reason". Millions of people siloed into their own little corners, only engaging with information that confirms what they think they already know, and from that information selecting ONLY the sources that stoke their worst impulses. I don't need a degree in psychology to know where that can lead.

As for how we can get out of this mess? I have no idea. People need to chill the fuck out but they are not. The leadership class are engaging in the same psychologically destructive behaviors as the masses they so disdain. I doubt there is any grand conspiracy. Its a Stand Alone Complex of enormous scale pushing history to its ultimate conclusion in the same way Asimov's Foundation series theorized could be done given sufficient knowledge of statistics and human group behavior. That is what truly terrifies me. The people who are so confident they are in charge of the ship have not realized the currents of history have seized them. They think they are in control of the ship, but will soon realize their arrogance once they try and turn the rudder or roll up the sails. The Ship will keep on going on its course no matter what they do or try.

I have some modicum of hope though. Heinlein believed that after the Social Scientists, Technocratic "Experts", and their misbegotten youth had driven society into the ground, a new order would rise, as it inevitably does to reassert control. It would be based around liberal principles and protect basic rights, but the only way you could vote or participate in civil government would be after engaging with civil responsibility first. The best quote from the book is "Intelligence is not an accurate measure of Civic Virtue". More people should read Starship Troopers honestly.

 

[IAmNotAlpharius]

war isn't hell dummy. that phrase comes from modern war. back in the day things were different. people died all the time so volunteering for the military was no big deal, and was even welcomed change for many people who wanted to travel the world.

modern war is different. you can't just say "war is hell" when wars were different. you're comparing apples to oranges

Melee combat probably screwed with people more psychologically because it was up close and personal. It’s not like the movies where someone gets hit once and they just fall over lifeless. There’s benefits then and now in terms of social mobility too.

 

[DeadFish]

Its worth noting that I don't voice my negative opinions for the smug satisfaction of being correct when the world burns down around me. The reality is that its either voice them, or stare at the wall all day and still feel the same way.

Even if I'm incorrect about the scale of the devastion, it should still remind people that destruction, disease, famine, rape, torture and other senseless suffering is what war is all about. And that those things are inevitable if war occurs. I don't think people are aware of what they stand to lose in the event that a war does occur. I'm fine with it because I'm resigned to the idea. Other people, not so much I wager.

After all, don't go to war if you aren't willing to do everything it takes to win. This whole thread starts with a man lamenting senseless destruction on a relatively small scale; I'd be interested to see how much of it he'd be willing to see on a large scale before he might get second thoughts about it.

Bad things happen. For most of human existence that level of suffering was the norm.

Also for most of humanity s existence the question was how to weather such things. Modern man's mistake was asking how to stop and control such things.

 

[NeoGAF Lurker]

They're not going to do it. This is an advanced form of coping (s-surely things will not just get worse, right?! S-surely fellow Americans will defend liberty with me!)

It is just venting on a website ultimately.

Edit: If you're actually worried about the direction of this country there are two realistic things you can do:
You can disconnect into the countryside, or you can make plans to immigrate to a country with better economic long term prospects.

This is “conservatism” in a nutshell in 2021: a series of copes while clinging tighter to failed concepts like get woke go broke, horseshoe theory, and deus ex machinas that will save them.

I’d say going to the countryside was a valid option but now that every shitlord gets the SWAT treatment, they are banking hard on Ruby Ridge part deux but this time leveraging the left’s total control of institutions to use it for pushing more anti-white laws.

At this time I think the only real viable option if you want to escape is going elsewhere to ascendant nations who actually will prize your skill sets and talents rather than discard you for not loving nigger tranny faggots enough.

Although I reserve the right to laugh at people who think baste minorities are finally going to emerge or think voting for fake and gay clowns like Ron DeSantis is going to do anything. The real solution is either go where you are valued or stand up for yourselves and that’s not voting for Cruz or Hawley.

 

[DuckSucker]

Yeah that's worked very well for us so far

I believe a significant chunk of this BLM shit is genuine fear over blacks chimping out and killing CEOs of these companies. That is a very real possibility, mind you, because they're so demonstrably violent. Whites have thus far, been completely docile and well behaved in the face of being shit on. I do believe fear of crowds is the difference here.

Dude BLM has been like 90% rich middle-upper class white kids. Remember that girl who posed naked in front of cops in Portland, they called her 'Athena'?

This is where everyone is getting it wrong. Im pulling numbers out of my ass but like at least half of it is OWS holdovers and the other half are just fucking bored.

 

[DeadFish]

This is “conservatism” in a nutshell in 2021: a series of copes while clinging tighter to failed concepts like get woke go broke, horseshoe theory, and deus ex machinas that will save them.

I’d say going to the countryside was a valid option but now that every shitlord gets the SWAT treatment, they are banking hard on Ruby Ridge part deux but this time leveraging the left’s total control of institutions to use it for pushing more anti-white laws.

At this time I think the only real viable option if you want to escape is going elsewhere to ascendant nations who actually will prize your skill sets and talents rather than discard you for not loving nigger tranny faggots enough.

Although I reserve the right to laugh at people who think baste minorities are finally going to emerge or think voting for fake and gay clowns like Ron DeSantis is going to do anything. The real solution is either go where you are valued or stand up for yourselves and that’s not voting for Cruz or Hawley.

Conservatives needs a new identity or world view. I would suggest tribal nationalism. I think I've explained my platform already.

If you want me to go
into further details into the ideas then fine I guess? Folks sure could use a laugh. As spergy my views may get at least I'm offering an alternative to the current dictomony

 

[Syaoran Li]

Generation X were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.

Fixed that for you

 

[L50LasPak]

Fixed that for you

They're guilty of a great deal but they never really achieved the level of power and influence the baby boomers did.

 

[Arm Pit Cream]

As a younger person I'm forced to ask why you stupid fucking people trusted these bastards in the first place.

You were the ones who voted, you were the ones who thought everything should be sacrified in the name of the freemarket. You bought into the neoliberal marketing. You voted time and again for two parties that are identical in every concieveable way except which drove of barely relevant subhumans they try to appeal to. You called people like me pessimistists and dismissed at every turn any suggestion that maybe the world wasn't fucking perfect and the people in your government weren't working in your best interest because apparently doubt is unpatriotic.

Boomers were the ones who packaged and sold this country in the first place. You stood by and let this happen, not me. I just hope I live long enough to see the inevitable nuclear war this bullshit will result in, it would be the best way to end this shitfest.

I would like to clarify that despite my previous comments I am all in favor of a Second Civil War. The way I see it, a bunch of people I absolutely despise will fucking die on both sides while my irrelevant neck of the woods will more than likely see no action at all.

I've actually had a frequent daydream about just this sort of thing. I call it The American Reckoning, less a civil conflict in the conventional sense and more one large and chaotic historical episode with the potential to last three or four generations. An era where all of the shortcuts and oversights we've arrogantly allowed to exist on our watch come back to haunt us with a vengeance. Common culture being overtaken by two caricatures of liberal and conservative, each representing their worst aspects, made more and more extreme by the media. The same way one would has to slowly and carefully enrich the precious Uranium 235 and Plutonium 239 materials you would eventually place into the casket of a nuclear warhead.

And much like nuclear fission when these two forces annhilate each other the bang will be incredible. Completely uncontrollable, so powerful that the country won't really break up so much as it will fly apart. I'm not talking like Day of the Rope or that other nonsense, I mean like bodies being burned in the streets just to prevent the spread of cholera and people killing each other over bread lines. There'll be no sides after a few short years of fighting, just people struggling to survive as things steadily get worse and worse. Americans don't know how to deal with a societal collapse, they'll be completely unprepared and starve by the millions, to say nothing of things like what the loss of easy medical care and basic infrastructure will cause.

The whole world will go with us too. Europe will fall apart, the Middle East will pretty much instantly dissolve and Africa will go back to its natural state. Even China and Russia, who both believe they are prepared for the United States to collapse, will suffer greatly as they have surely underestimated just how disruptive the loss of the American economy will be to the rest of the world. China will probably experience its own conflict that will make the Cultural Revolution look like a joke.

I'm disgusted enough with the world to eagerly await this. You should stop and think about it though, whoever you are, wherever you are. Do you want this too? Because that's what you're going to get. The first and foremost fallacy any of the belligerents have in a civil war is the belief that they will have control of the situation once chaos starts to set in.

But no bro, you've got this. I'm just a pessimist after all. We're never right about anything.

I like how you complained that people like you don't have any power, then proved as to why people such as yourself shouldn't have any power.

 

[Syaoran Li]

They're guilty of a great deal but they never really achieved the level of power and influence the baby boomers did.

Nah, the Boomers are largely used as a scapegoat by Millennials and Zoomers, a trend that was spearheaded by Generation X (who not only hate the Boomers but benefit from the generational A-Logging of them)

Most of the corporate bigwigs that actually run this country and their lackeys in academia and media are Generation X'ers. Jack Dorsey and Mark Zuckerberg are X'ers, Jeff Bezos is an older X'er but he's still firmly with Gen X. Bill Gates is a younger Boomer but is the kind of Late Boomer who has more in common with the Gen X mindset than your typical Boomer.

The Boomers in politics are merely a tool for the corporations to wield their power more efficiently.

Fuck Gen X. They're the real cause of the problems and they let the Boomers take most of the blame.

I unironically deeply admire the Baby Boomers. I have nothing but raw searing hatred and contempt for Generation X and Millennials, and I say that as a Late Millennial myself (in4 "le wrong generation" bullshit)

I pity the Zoomers more than anything. The X'ers and their woke Millennial lapdogs ruined everything before they could even have a chance.

God Bless The Boomers and God Damn The Millennials and X'ers.

Also, why would you want a nuclear apocalypse? Like seriously, you do realize Fallout was just a video game, right?

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

Stuff breaks people die. if lots of people die who cares?

 

[Syaoran Li]

Stuff breaks people die. if lots of people die who cares?

Posts like this is why we need the trash can and puzzle piece stickers back on this sub-forum.

 

[L50LasPak]

I like how you complained that people like you don't have any power, then proved as to why people such as yourself shouldn't have any power.

You assume I'm the only one of my kind though. There are lots of people like me who do have power and people like you are quite poorly equipped when it comes to noticing them. You just see me because I'm disaffected and defective.

Also, why would you want a nuclear apocalypse? Like seriously, you do realize Fallout was just a video game, right?

Despite all of my cynicism I still have a warped and beaten but deeply unsatisfied sense of justice. It would bring me a great deal of comfort to know that generations of arrogance and rampant, unmitigated stupidity will be rewarded with at least utter destruction. I obviously have no interest surviving in the aftermath of such a scenario and would quickly dispose of myself once the reality of the situation set. Something I think that a lot of people aren't actually prepared to do.

 

[DeadFish]

You assume I'm the only one of my kind though. There are lots of people like me who do have power and people like you are quite poorly equipped when it comes to noticing them. You just see me because I'm disaffected and defective.

I don't. I realize both sides are undergoing a form of collective ideation. The only difference is the left is unware of these impulses while the right is aware of such feelings. We as a collective want to die as a culture and turn everything associated with it into ash.

 

[mindlessobserver]

You assume I'm the only one of my kind though. There are lots of people like me who do have power and people like you are quite poorly equipped when it comes to noticing them. You just see me because I'm disaffected and defective.


Despite all of my cynicism I still have a warped and beaten but deeply unsatisfied sense of justice. It would bring me a great deal of comfort to know that generations of arrogance and rampant, unmitigated stupidity will be rewarded with at least utter destruction. I obviously have no interest surviving in the aftermath of such a scenario and would quickly dispose of myself once the reality of the situation set. Something I think that a lot of people aren't actually prepared to do.

Wow and I thought I was a blackpilled.

 

[DeadFish]

Wow and I thought I was a blackpilled.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8tIIEd8M0es

Destroying is conquering. It's true. I looked it up

.

Also, why would you want a nuclear apocalypse? Like seriously, you do realize Fallout was just a video game, right?

Because anything worth doing isn't worth doing half assed.

 

[Maurice Caine]

I ain't American and frankly, it's an entirely different reality than what's around me but something that strikes me as odd is that in random youtube videos you get comments like this:

The video in question is this one, now you can tell me whatever you like but this isn't exactly normal, is it?

 

[L50LasPak]

I don't. I realize both sides are undergoing a form of collective ideation. The only difference is the left is unware of these impulses while the right is aware of such feelings. We as a collective want to die as a culture and turn everything associated with it into ash.

It seems self evident to me that both sides are incapable of seeing what you're talking about. Believe it or not, the left wing is quite willing to acknowledge what they precieve as flaws in their movement, the same as the right is. Of course, when both sides do that, all of their flaws boil down to "WHY AREN'T WE WINNING HARDER? WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?" and that introspection is clearly self-serving and directed at making the movement more effective. Just a means to an end, nothing more.

The reality is much worse than either party is willing to acknowledge. They're both cut from the same cloth and subject to the same societal and economic forces, the product of the exact same set of deep seated human instincts that people have become so used to ignoring. This is why its impossible to make peace between these two factions. In a complicated way they aren't even factions at all, but reactions to a set of circumstances that were really out of everyone's hands in the beginning.

This isn't to absolve anyone of the guilt they undoubtedly have for continuing to participate; the actions taken by commoners were and are just as self-serving and short sighted as the actions taken by our leadership and the powers that be. We'll all surely hang together on this one.

 

[FAQnews Correspondent]

I ain't American and frankly, it's an entirely different reality than what's around me but something that strikes me as odd is that in random youtube videos you get comments like this:
View attachment 1976726
The video in question is this one, now you can tell me whatever you like but this isn't exactly normal, is it?

Any piece of media from years ago is naturally going to have comments like that. It's a time capsule of a time when everything was much more affordable, people were happier, and there was hope for that things would at worst, not get worse. People look back at a time where it wasn't despair, and they will inevitably compare it to how they live today.

Here's another comment chain from the same video.

 

[DeadFish]

It seems self evident to me that both sides are incapable of seeing what you're talking about. Believe it or not, the left wing is quite willing to acknowledge what they precieve as flaws in their movement, the same as the right is. Of course, when both sides do that, all of their flaws boil down to "WHY AREN'T WE WINNING HARDER? WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?" and that introspection is clearly self-serving and directed at making the movement more effective. Just a means to an end, nothing more.

The reality is much worse than either party is willing to acknowledge. They're both cut from the same cloth and subject to the same societal and economic forces, the product of the exact same set of deep seated human instincts that people have become so used to ignoring. This is why its impossible to make peace between these two factions. In a complicated way they aren't even factions at all, but reactions to a set of circumstances that were really out of everyone's hands in the beginning.

This isn't to absolve anyone of the guilt they undoubtedly have for continuing to participate; the actions taken by commoners were and are just as self-serving and short sighted as the actions taken by our leadership and the powers that be. We'll all surely hang together on this one.

I'm a practitioner what's call paradigm shifting. It's where you make your self buy in completely into one world view for a set amount of time then buy into what's considered the opposite of that world view for another period of time.

For example be a hard core raging atheist for three months. Then after three months go hard core muslim. Switch back and forth until both seem like the same.

Why am I saying this? Because I don't buy into both sides bs. What I see is two groups with exact same desires just expressed in a different way.

As many mentioned here these woke people may not be atheists but sure as hell treat their idealogy in the same way their christian fundie parents treated the st james bible.

A guitar plucked by a bluesman or a jazzman make no difference that it was plucked.

What I'm seeing collectively (despite idealogy) if seen in an individual would be considered a sign of being suicidal.

Both sides are feeling this last resort papa roach Fuck you dad rage. It's that both groups don't share the same means of processing, expressing and handling said rage.

And yes the right very capable of seeing what I'm talking about. Talk politics long enough to one long enough and they will say
This whole shin dig needs to burn. They will also say they'll be too happy light match to get it going. I guess the right is more self aware then the left.

Where the left is setting things on fire but refusing to acknowledge same feelings. They LL just claim they're fighting facism or something.