The case for safe space - Actually not a terrible idea despite the piss poor implementation.

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Penis Drager

Pronouns: Fee/Fi/Fo/Fum
kiwifarms.net
The ideal form of the "safe space" has been around for a long time. It's called church. With the acceptance of atheism came the rise of antitheism: the belief that religion is a terrible thing that should be eradicated. It was around this time that churches largely lost their role as massively influential institutions and became safe spaces instead.
Now, it's a place religious people go to discuss current events through the lens of their beliefs without having to deal with assholes that want nothing more than to tear them apart. Whether this is a good thing or bad is certainly debatable. But it certainly is "okay." It's okay enough to get tax breaks, at least. So why not for other aspects of identity? Race? Sexuality? Troons and "gender non-conforming?"
If it's okay for institutions to get tax breaks for catering to one delusion, why not all of them? I see nothing wrong with faggots and browns having a space where they can revel in confirmation bias if religion gets those privileges already. But public spaces should be treated differently.
This is no more true anywhere else but higher education. No idea should be banned from expression in college and university. All things should be open for debate. Just as a Christian can go to church if they want a place where their identity is not criticized and not to expect such special treatment elsewhere, so too should the variety of snowflakes.
The point of a safe space is that it's a place you can go when under duress. No rational person should expect the wider world to prevent that duress in the first place.
 

Rusty Crab

and it kept getting worse...
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Attacking the idea of a 'safe space' is a red herring and is ultimately unrelated to this entire thing.

I'm not ok with a bunch of psychopaths gathering and planning how best to devolve the country into a third world shithole where you can't get clean water.

Taking it a step further from the post above mine, not only is "free speech" an illusory concept, but "principles" are in general. If people like me, I want them to have a safe environment. If people want to kill me, I don't want them to have a safe environment. Simple as that.
 

KimCoppolaAficionado

The most underrated actor of the 21st century
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Attacking the idea of a 'safe space' is a red herring and is ultimately unrelated to this entire thing.

I'm not ok with a bunch of psychopaths gathering and planning how best to devolve the country into a third world shithole where you can't get clean water.

Taking it a step further from the post above mine, not only is "free speech" an illusory concept, but "principles" are in general. If people like me, I want them to have a safe environment. If people want to kill me, I don't want them to have a safe environment. Simple as that.
That's a principle. That's a consistent principle, even. It's not universal, but it's not based entirely on impulse and mood.
 

Rusty Crab

and it kept getting worse...
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That's a principle. That's a consistent principle, even. It's not universal, but it's not based entirely on impulse and mood.
I mean "principle" in how it's colloquially used. "if you want free speech for yourself you have to want free speech for your enemies! Otherwise you're a hypocrite!". That's what people normally mean by that and it's a ridiculous (and losing) notion.
 

KimCoppolaAficionado

The most underrated actor of the 21st century
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I mean "principle" in how it's colloquially used. "if you want free speech for yourself you have to want free speech for your enemies! Otherwise you're a hypocrite!". That's what people normally mean by that and it's a ridiculous (and losing) notion.
Yes, you do in fact have to want free speech for your enemies if you want free speech, free speech is by definition a universalist principle. If your principle is "If you say something I agree with you have the right to say it, but if you say something I disagree with, you should be beaten and killed (or whatever punishment you believe that holding beliefs contrary to your own should have)", that is not free speech, that is intellectual despotism. I don't say this to necessarily condemn you for believing in intellectual despotism, but as a simple statement of fact. If you wanted to say you believed in Christianity, but also denied that Christ was the son of god, that he died and was raised on the third day, and in fact insisted that the Bible was a fictional document, you would not be Christian despite your self-identification as such, either.

Perfectly free speech is, of course, an ideal and not something that can be realistically achieved in anything besides an anarchy, but that doesn't make it "illusory", anymore than happiness or sadness or pain or other mental states that are not being immediately experienced by you are illusory. The United States is a country that is impressively close to the ideal compared to most other countries- this is also a mere fact, regardless of your opinion on the matter. You can shout "death to America" or "death to Democrats" or "death to Republicans" in public, and the government will pass you over unless you start making direct, actionable threats, assaulting others, or destroying public property. In Russia or China, you can also say these things, but turning the topic towards that government ends nastily.
 

KEKMUHLORD

kiwifarms.net
That church in The Kingsman was anything but a “safe” space.

Fact Check:
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True
 

Kosher Dill

Potato Chips
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The point of a safe space is that it's a place you can go when under duress.
Not just a place you can go, but a place where you can heal from legitimate duress, before returning to the real world. That's the key. If the environment isn't structured to ultimately facilitate healing (or worse, reinforces - or even creates - fragility), then the whole enterprise is counterproductive. And that's just what we see today, both in the stereotypical college womxn's center, and to use your example, places such as radical, insular churches.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
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A safe space is one of those things that facilities and factions like to claim they have but in practice the idea is vague and poorly defined. I've been in safe space rooms that had no windows you could open and only a single exit (they're most often used in college as just places to study), didn't really feel too safe in there since if there was a fire or if someone decided to lose their shit the only exit could be blocked and everyone would be fucked.

I guess having that weird rainbow ring of hands icon bolted outside the doorway gives peace of mind to some people, but I think any reasonable person would dismiss the idea after giving it a minute or two of thought.
 
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draggs

Kyle Avgvstvs, Antifvs Maximvs. AVE KYLE
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Free speech is an illusory concept. The only people who have ever pushed for it were people planning to end it once their ideology became the dominant law of the land.
Nah they were even gayer they actually believed in that shit

Safe spaces don't work because they're built on isolation

That's why they must be extended everywhere, if you aren't in a safe space 24/7 and you believe in that shit you are constantly going to be freaking out from your isolation being shattered
Attacking the idea of a 'safe space' is a red herring and is ultimately unrelated to this entire thing.

I'm not ok with a bunch of psychopaths gathering and planning how best to devolve the country into a third world shithole where you can't get clean water.

Taking it a step further from the post above mine, not only is "free speech" an illusory concept, but "principles" are in general. If people like me, I want them to have a safe environment. If people want to kill me, I don't want them to have a safe environment. Simple as that.
Who wants to kill you

I don't mean some bullshit about how it is inevitable that somewhere down the road the communists will starve the kulaks again

I mean is your life consistently in imminent danger because for 99.99% of the population having people wanting to kill you like right fucking now over politics kind of isn't a thing

And more to the point, if they want to kill you, worrying about their words should be down the priority list shouldn't it
 
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ArnoldPalmer

kiwifarms.net
You don't deserve to feel safe. The universe's will is for us to die, and perhaps even suffer. Safety and Security are an illusion, and nobody deserves to be shielded from the horrors of reality. The closest thing to safety that you should experience is calm. There is no safety outside of what your physical and mental states can provide for you. It's your job to maintain both.
 

L50LasPak

We have all the time in the world.
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I mean is your life consistently in imminent danger because for 99.99% of the population having people wanting to kill you like right fucking now over politics kind of isn't a thing
And as anyone browsing accidental death reports can tell you, the people who you are in imminent danger from are probably not the ones who want you dead, but instead the dipshits dozing off at the controls or skimping out on the construction materials to save costs.
 

Irrelevant

kiwifarms.net
The first time I heard the concept "safe space" was I think a photo of a room at PAX <=2010 or something like that. The idea that people needed an actual real room to feel "safe" was and still is stupid as shit. Why not go sit outside for 5 mins like a normal person at an expo?

But the idea of a "safe space" being something like a hobby makes total sense. The irony being that those promoting "safe spaces" have been going around destroying everyone else's.
 
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