The Confederate Flag -

[Superior Watermelon]

With everything going on people are complaining about having the Confederate flag scrubbed of the face of the Earth. I feel like people should be able to fly that flag, it has deep roots in culture to this country, especially to the south, and people's ancestors died under fighting for their beliefs. Now I'm not saying I agree with slavery, but there was more to the civil war than just that. If people want the Confederate flag gone because of the negative history associated with it, shouldn't we just remove every flag then? Each flag has it's own culture and history associated with it whether it be good or bad, so why should one flag be banned (or whatever they want) because of the history of it and the fact that some crazies hijacked it. Am I wrong for thinking this? Am I crazy?

 

[Bronchitis that Lingers]

Honestly my only issue with it, is that you have to watch where you're at when you fly it. People might be appalled if they see the flag, and don't know that the person flying it is just remembering history, but rather using it as a way to say "I wish the south would have won so we could have slaves". So I guess it entirely depends on the interpretation.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

With everything going on people are complaining about having the Confederate flag scrubbed of the face of the Earth. I feel like people should be able to fly that flag, it has deep roots in culture to this country, especially to the south, and people's ancestors died under fighting for their beliefs. Now I'm not saying I agree with slavery, but there was more to the civil war than just that. If people want the Confederate flag gone because of the negative history associated with it, shouldn't we just remove every flag then? Each flag has it's own culture and history associated with it whether it be good or bad, so why should one flag be banned (or whatever they want) because of the history of it and the fact that some crazies hijacked it. Am I wrong for thinking this? Am I crazy?

I'd be down with banning all flags.

But to a black person living in the modern South, is it hard to imagine that the wrongs associated with the Confederate flag might seem a bit more real than the wrongs associated with, say, the flag of Mozambique?

And it's worth noting that nobody is proposing that private display of the flag should be illegal, so you're arguing against a strawman.

 

[TheAmazingAxolotl]

With everything going on people are complaining about having the Confederate flag scrubbed of the face of the Earth. I feel like people should be able to fly that flag, it has deep roots in culture to this country, especially to the south, and people's ancestors died under fighting for their beliefs. Now I'm not saying I agree with slavery, but there was more to the civil war than just that. If people want the Confederate flag gone because of the negative history associated with it, shouldn't we just remove every flag then? Each flag has it's own culture and history associated with it whether it be good or bad, so why should one flag be banned (or whatever they want) because of the history of it and the fact that some crazies hijacked it. Am I wrong for thinking this? Am I crazy?

As someone who lives in the South, specifically Tennessee, all I can say is that in certain places it's not as common to see the Stars and Bars as one would think. The Deep South are the ones who hang on to "Southern heritage", Mississippi especially (of course, the state that didn't abolish slavery until 2013). However, I can't really say much on the matter; my ancestors (to my knowledge) took no part in the Civil War and got here somewhere around the time Reconstruction ended. My state is also home to five public statues dedicated to one Nathan Bedford Forrest, who as we know was the first bigwig of the KKK. Fucking Pulaski, Tennessee, man.

I would say that people should be allowed to fly the flag, mostly because it's a first amendment right. It was the flag of the Tennessee Army, the ensign of the Army of Northern Virginia, the Confederate naval jack, and so many more things; it's also a symbol of pride. Southern pride by and large is probably about as taboo as white pride; the "white race" has done too much wrong to be proud of their heritage, and the South isn't allowed to be proud simply because their rebellion failed. You can see the pattern in this: the people that flew the flag failed, so no one's allowed to fly it without offending people. We see this in Germany (for obvious reasons), not just with the flag of the Third Reich, but also with the flag of the German Empire from World War I.

A flag on its own cannot be bigoted. While those 11 states that flew the bonnie blue flag that bears a single star did in fact explicitly state that among their intentions was to preserve slavery, we have to remember that it was people who wanted that rebellion. Just like people wanted the Jews in Europe exterminated, people that enslaved other people, and it was a person who killed those 9 black people with the intention of starting a race war. Take these people away, the flag no longer has any meaning outside of what is said in history texts. If Southerners can't fly the Stars and Bars for their heritage, no one can fly any sort of flag for their heritage, because every single country in this world that proudly flies their flag has been responsible for some pretty questionable shit.

 

[XYZpdq]

I've known black guys who wore it because they were just as big a redneck as any other person.

I think a lot of it is people looking for shit to throw a fit over, but I went to Jefferson Davis Middle School so I might not be the best judge of it.

 

[Captain Cid]

As a former southerner, I can assure anyone reading this that to most black people, the confederate flag is to them as a swastika is to Jews. The people that fly it do so strictly out of racial hatred, not to celebrate their heritage. That's just the lie they say to get away with it, since those damn northerners and liberals won't let them say what they truly think these days.

As for me, I see the confederate flag as a sign of treachery. If you love a country that no longer exists so much that you equate it's flag with that of the country you currently live in, perhaps you should ask yourself if you have any love for your current country since it outlaws that things that make the country you pine for so great in your mind. If you want to fly it, that's cool. Nobody appreciates more than me whenever someone is willing to let everyone around them know that they are a fucking idiot. However, it should not be flown on state grounds. Are there any other countries on the planet that have people flying the flag of a belligerent power fought in wartime that no longer exists? This would be akin to people in France flying the Vichy France flag today.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Are there any other countries on the planet that have people flying the flag of a belligerent power fought in wartime that no longer exists?

You've seen the various Swastika-using Neonazi rallies around the world, right

 

[KingGeedorah]

Yo this thread is easy...

Flags are and always will be dumb. Get more upset over cloth. Please. My sides are splitting.

 

[Captain Cid]

You've seen the various Swastika-using Neonazi rallies around the world, right

Indeed I have. But like you said, around the world. Not in Germany, Austria or any of the other countries that were so negatively affected by Nazi Germany that they subsequently outlawed Nazi imagery. And not to mention, the US Civil War killed more combatants in one nation than any other war. It just reeks of treason to me to show support for a nation that killed record numbers of your current country's citizens.

 

[The Knife's Husbando]

Sure, the Confederate flag is a symbol of southern heritage & states' rights! A heritage of deliberate, organized racism, and the states' "rights" to own people as livestock.

Utter and complete bullshit.

Wear/fly it if you like, but keep in mind free speech goes both ways. Don't get all pissy when people call you out on it.

 

[Captain Cid]

I don't understand why the black people in South Carolina don't just scale the flagpole and remove that thing themselves. I'm amazed at the level of restraint the black community in the USA has shown in the wake of the bullshit they've had to deal with over the past year. I'm aware of the rioting in Baltimore and Ferguson. However, unlike the LA riots of the 90s, no white people were assaulted. Whatever supremacy white nationalists think they possess is disproved by a willingness to murder over racial hatred.

 

[KatsuKitty]

Glenn Beck said this morning it was a symbol of slavery.

Glenn Beck.

 

[Watcher]

1. https://static.kiwifarms.net/data/avatars/s/0/23.jpg?1394010477 A moment ago KatsuKitty:
   confederate flag more like the confederate fag tahaaa
2. https://static.kiwifarms.net/data/avatars/s/0/23.jpg?1394010477 A moment ago KatsuKitty:
   more like the cumfederate fag

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Indeed I have. But like you said, around the world. Not in Germany, Austria or any of the other countries that were so negatively affected by Nazi Germany that they subsequently outlawed Nazi imagery.

It happens in Russia, France, Yugoslavia, Poland, the Netherlands, all countries where the Nazis represented, to quote, "a belligerent power fought in wartime that no longer exists". Millions of Russians died during the Nazi invasion and yet Russian neo-Nazis still happily wave the flag around. Although no Russian federal subject has yet to make the Nazi flag one of its official state flags, I'll give them that.

 

[Captain Cid]

It happens in Russia, France, Yugoslavia, Poland, the Netherlands, all countries where the Nazis represented, to quote, "a belligerent power fought in wartime that no longer exists". Millions of Russians died during the Nazi invasion and yet Russian neo-Nazis still happily wave the flag around. Although no Russian federal subject has yet to make the Nazi flag one of its official state flags, I'll give them that.

Well you just nailed the most important overall point, the flying of the confederate flag is officially sanctioned by a state government in the USA. And it's part of the Mississippi flag itself. There really isn't any sort of equivalence that can be made regarding the Nazi flag and the use of the confederate flag in the USA on this point. But on the other point you made, I guess some people are just really masochistic.

 

[Some JERK]

I was born in the South. My great great grandfather was a Major in the confederacy. He was at Appomattox Courthouse with General Lee when he surrendered. The Confederate flag is directly part of my heritage, but it's not part of my identity any more than the Betsy-Ross flag or the Union Jack. It's just a flag, so if it upsets people that much then get rid of it. Or don't. Whatever.

Though I do think the energy would be better focused on accomplishing something that actually accomplishes something beyond making people feel better.

 

[Dudeofteenage]

Well you just nailed the most important overall point, the flying of the confederate flag is officially sanctioned by a state government in the USA.

Yes, but the interesting thing is that, while most of the controversy in the news surrounds the issue of the state government flying the flag, most people hear seem to prefer to argue about whether it's OK for private citizens to fly the flag, despite the fact that the overwhelming consensus in even the most "liberal" parts of the US commentariat seems to be that, yes, people should be allowed to fly Confederate flags if they want to.

 

[Marvin]

I was born in the South. My great great grandfather was a Major in the confederacy. He was at Appomattox Courthouse with General Lee when he surrendered. The Confederate flag is directly part of my heritage, but it's not part of my identity any more than the Betsy-Ross flag or the Union Jack. It's just a flag, so if it upsets people that much then get rid of it. Or don't. Whatever.

Though I do think the energy would be better focused on accomplishing something that actually accomplishes something beyond making people feel better.

Eh, to use an analogy, it'd be like if the state motto was "Kikes non liceret!" (Google translate tells me that's latin for "no kikes allowed!") But don't worry, fellow citizens, it's only kept around for historical reasons!

It's not a huge waste of productivity to change it. And if it does end up being a waste of productivity, the responsibility for said waste is directly on the shoulders of the people resisting said change.

Yes, but the interesting thing is that, while most of the controversy in the news surrounds the issue of the state government flying the flag, most people hear seem to prefer to argue about whether it's OK for private citizens to fly the flag, despite the fact that the overwhelming consensus in even the most "liberal" parts of the US commentariat seems to be that, yes, people should be allowed to fly Confederate flags if they want to.

See, that is extremely weird to me.

Like seriously, no one is seriously proposing making it illegal to display the confederate flag. This is America, where the ACLU has fought for NAMBLA's first amendment rights. NAMBLA, for fucks sake. No one's trying to outlaw the confederate flag.

When people bring up the "muh freedoms" argument, I can only conclude they're either being deliberately obtuse or they're horribly ignorant about their country.

 

[Some JERK]

Eh, to use an analogy, it'd be like if the state motto was "Kikes non liceret!" (Google translate tells me that's latin for "no kikes allowed!") But don't worry, fellow citizens, it's only kept around for historical reasons!

It's not a huge waste of productivity to change it. And if it does end up being a waste of productivity, the responsibility for said waste is directly on the shoulders of the people resisting said change.

I agree. And yeah, I totally understand the argument that the State flying the Stars and Bars creates an environment where people feel that their own government is against them. But I don't think any government building should be allowed to fly the flag of another government anyway. The Confederacy is gone, so why does anyone need a Confederate flag anymore? My point was more that as someone with deep Confederate roots, I don't think that the "heritage" argument means anything, but I also know that getting rid of that flag isn't going to do much about actual racism in the South, so it'll make people feel better, (which is great) but that's about it.

 

[Dr. Meme]

You should be able to hang up anything you want in your house. Doesn't mean you're not a giant prick but I respect the right for you to do that.