'The end of history': Is American exceptionalism justified? Is democracy the 'best way'? - Since the fall of the wall in 1989, are we at the end of the road for modes of governing?

[FA 855]

Hello all, I thought I'd start off this thread by saying a couple of things to make my question clearer and trying to get to the meat of what I'm saying.
Do you think that America triumphing is the 'win scenario' and the end of conflict? Are dictatorships in the world destined to fail?
Or do you think that the Chinese might have a point or two, do you think dictatorship can be a better form of governing than democracy?
Is grand ideology in general, communism or fascism, no longer needed?

 

[The Shadow]

Democracy is non-negotiable.

 

[ProgKing of the North]

Democracy is the worst system of government except for all of the other ones

 

[A Useless Fish]

Francis Fukuyama is a piece of shit.

 

[deodorant]

America is very much styled after the Roman Civilization, and it's destined for the same path.

Our republic will become more and more degenerate and nonfunctional until a dictator comes along and cleans everything up.

That dictator will usher in a few generations of progress, before eventually the dictatorship becomes corrupt and useless, and the empire collapses.

 

[Nacho Man Randy Salsa]

America is superior because Americans are the superior race.

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

I think America is pretty dang good as countries go, but I just don't buy the idea that there's some form of government/culture that will ever be acknowledged as The One True Path. History is a crapshoot and I don't believe the world is inevitably evolving toward... well, any particular thing.

 

[Black Waltz]

I probably said this before, but a brutal dictatorship would only be ok if I'm the brutal dictator

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Communism and fascism had their roots in 19th century thought, and they both effectively died out in practice by the end of the 20th century. I don't foresee them being meaningfully resurrected. If there is a worthy challenger to liberal democracy, then I have not yet seen it, and I can think of no reason to believe that democracy will collapse anytime soon.

As for the United States, I think that it will probably decline in power and influence relative to the rest of the world (as the rest of the world advances and catches up), but I don't foresee it declining overall, much less collapsing. I think that we are probably heading for a more integrated world where individual nation states play an increasingly minor role in global affairs, but the extent to which the US will have left it's mark on that world is difficult to say. I think it will largely depend upon the competence of America's future leadership.

 

[Clop]

There's never going to be a winning form of government. Either you govern in a way that lets people take advantage of you, or you govern in a way that takes advantage of everyone else and trying to balance it without letting it slip into the extreme where the whole thing falls over is like holding an egg on top of a sharpened pencil. It's the nature of humanity that even as we keep tearing each other to shreds we tell ourselves "I am doing the right thing."

Any direction for policy you take you can never roll back without bloodshed, and they all end in bloodshed eventually.

 

[DN 420]

You ask a lot of questions that require a lot of consideration, so I will only try to answer one: Is American exceptionalism justified?

To answer this, we must first determine what exactly causes America to specifically hold so much exceptionalism. One answer to that is the healthcare system.

Unlike other developed nations, due to foundational values (both in regards to religion and social justice) America is particularly anti-abortion. America also has the technology and medicine required to keep exceptional children (that would have otherwise been aborted) alive and the infrastructure in place to take care of these people for the rest of their lives, resulting in a far higher population of exceptional individuals when comparing to other nations.

There are many other factors that are in play as well, that is just one example. However, this doesn't answer if such exceptionalism is justifiable. That is a far more difficult question and ultimately boils down to whether you believe all human life has inherent value, or whether society should not have to deal with the burden of exceptional individuals and the stress they put on the rest of the population.

If you were to take the progressive, ideal stance on human life, then you would say that this exceptionalism is justifiable.

 

[Dissociation]

Enough indoctrination and inexperience will convince a citizen of anything, even if objective measurements can show they are worse off.
When confronted with the argument that America is by virtue of objective economic and social measurement a second class post industrial power pretending to be significant for any reason aide from military posturing it's not likely they could assert such claims.

 

[Dissociation]

You ask a lot of questions that require a lot of consideration, so I will only try to answer one: Is American exceptionalism justified?
Unlike other developed nations, due to foundational values (both in regards to religion and social justice) America is particularly anti-abortion. America also has the technology and medicine required to keep exceptional children (that would have otherwise been aborted) alive and the infrastructure in place to take care of these people for the rest of their lives, resulting in a far higher population of exceptional individuals when comparing to other nations.

You could argue that exceptionalism is the motivation that keeps the citizens restrained to belief in such values that constrain their growth as a society.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

Enough indoctrination and inexperience will convince a citizen of anything, even if objective measurements can show they are worse off.
When confronted with the argument that America is by virtue of objective economic and social measurement a second class post industrial power pretending to be significant for any reason aide from military posturing it's not likely they could assert such claims.

Citation needed.

 

[Dissociation]

Citation needed.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22533

This would be the same Un Council on Human Rights that is headed by Saudi Arabia, and coincidentally has no real problem with Saudi Arabia's abuses of human rights laws, yes?

 

[Dissociation]

This would be the same Un Council on Human Rights that is headed by Saudi Arabia, and coincidentally has no real problem with Saudi Arabia's abuses of human rights laws, yes?

The United Nations Human Rights Council is one of the largest groups in the UN, so even America can take comfort that it can work to improve its position alongside its partners and peers in such poor behavior, the United Kingdom, and Australia.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

The United Nations Human Rights Council is one of the largest groups in the UN, so even America can take comfort that it can work to improve its position alongside its partners and peers in such poor behavior, the United Kingdom, and Australia.

So, just to make this clear here, arresting people for naughty words and demanding the government be allowed to see literally everything you do online at any moment isn't a human rights violation, but being sucky compared to the rest of the OECD, allegedly, is?

 

[Dissociation]

So, just to make this clear here, arresting people for naughty words and demanding the government be allowed to see literally everything you do online at any moment isn't a human rights violation, but being sucky compared to the rest of the OECD, allegedly, is?

You forgot the fact that Australia has migrant camps with UN observers and the UK detains asylum seekers indefinitely.
The difference is that while Australia and the UK try to care for their citizens, the myth of American Exceptionalism demands everyone struggle for themselves or they're freeloading leeches taking your taxes, which is a sentiment so frequently uttered by those who can do it that you would think taxes are a vital organ inside the body and you have wounded them.

 

[KimCoppolaAficionado]

You forgot the fact that Australia has migrant camps with UN observers and the UK detains asylum seekers indefinitely.
The difference is that while Australia and the UK try to care for their citizens, the myth of American Exceptionalism demands everyone struggle for themselves or they're freeloading leeches taking your taxes, which is a sentiment so frequently uttered by those who can do it that you would think taxes are a vital organ inside the body and you have wounded them.

Are you an American? Because what you're describing is very different from what I've actually seen on the ground.