The Endless Frontier Act - Watching America die is actually kind of fascinating

[Old Sun World]

What do people mean when they say, "There is no political solution."? I assume you mean the only solution is through conflict and potentially violence, but how can you go against the system when they have all the guns and the media on their side? You saw how they manipulated the narrative of the police guided capitol tour into an insurrection, do you think they will allow you to live without a bank account and be self sufficient? if you raise chickens, plant potatos and gather rain water you are called an eco terrorist. Participation in the system is mandatory and its grip over the people is getting tighter each year.

 

[Affluent Reptilian]

How?

Lower our corporate taxes, which are the world's highest, and they'll come back naturally. Punish them to force them to come back, and you're only hurting manufacturing.

Er, world's highest? The headline federal rate isn't (21%; I know, it used to be higher). When you add in the state tax it gets up to a little over 30% in some states (CA, PA), a bit less in others. This is on the higher end of developed nations but isn't unparalleled - eg France has 33.3% for companies with 75k Euros or more of income, Australia has 30% for corporate groups with AU$50m+ turnover. Of course, if we move from corporate tax to all the taxes a corporation migh tpay things get more complex because of things like VAT/GST (considerable in some countries - in France it's 20%), payroll, stamp duty, etc etc, and there's the big problem which is very hard to figure out just by a quick review of how generous the different systems are in terms of concessions and loopholes. All of this makes it difficult to say which is actually higher unless we're talking gigantic differentials, but in any event I doubt it's correct that the US has the highest corporate tax rate.

 

[Rusty Crab]

The question is how good are they at innovation? it seems that besides replication, their actual ability to develop novel technologies or incentives their creation is lagging based on their cultural, educational, and economic systems.

I feel like people who say this do not really know how engineering works.

Most of industry and science is imitation. We're still "imitating" people's writings from the 1600s. Usually how it works in engineering is that you imitate what you're going for until you master that technology and THEN you innovate off that. It's the same for personal development as it is for organizations. It only makes sense to kickstart your knowledge base by aping your opponents products (especially when they make it so easy because you manufacture all of their stuff).

We are starting to see the Chinese innovate, especially as American technology development is slowing down (and in some ways going backwards).

 

[soy_king]

I feel like people who say this do not really know how engineering works.

Most of industry and science is imitation. We're still "imitating" people's writings from the 1600s. Usually how it works in engineering is that you imitate what you're going for until you master that technology and THEN you innovate off that. It's the same for personal development as it is for organizations. It only makes sense to kickstart your knowledge base by aping your opponents products (especially when they make it so easy because you manufacture all of their stuff).

We are starting to see the Chinese innovate, especially as American technology development is slowing down (and in some ways going backwards).

I'm more talking about biotechnology and chemistry, but even there imitation alone isn't enough. Even to put pieces together you still need some sort of out of the box thinking, and the Chinese seem to discourage that

 

[Rusty Crab]

I'm more talking about biotechnology and chemistry, but even there imitation alone isn't enough. Even to put pieces together you still need some sort of out of the box thinking, and the Chinese seem to discourage that

I think you're correct that the chinese have had less "mental freedom" which probably does stifle innovation somewhat. It's a difficult problem though. We've seen where complete uninhibited 'mental freedom' lands us and it's a gay (literally) dystopia with less free speech than what they have.

Of note, we are starting to see a similar thing over here. The field of AI is especially suffering from this because anything overlapping with race is suddenly a problem that cannot be solved because it cannot be addressed without you ending up homeless.

 

[Carlos Weston Chantor]

The theory in which the material processes are the most important factor in the life of a nation is called "historical materialism" and is one of the core components of marxism. Any culture which thinks that the most important thing in life is shit like "rapidly outpacing someone in the technology sector" is doomed to fail sooner or later. Both amerimutts and chinks are godless materialistic creatures living in a hellish miasma of usury, and their only ambition and passion in live is production, consumption, and watching disney movies. Technology will not save neither america not china because God hates both of these countries

 

[Gimmick Account]

Both amerimutts and chinks are godless materialistic creatures living in a hellish miasma of usury

I dunno, Chinese have a pretty distinct tradition on that stuff. They didn't even have what we would call banks until jewish bioweapons started infiltrating in the mid 1800s and all that didn't end well so it's pretty deep in the category of shit they're skeptical of. Culturally it still kind of blows my mind how open they are with money as communities: while my family doesn't even talk about money besides telling me to get in debt in fucking high school to build my fucking credit rating, I've seen Chinese friends casually hit up classmates they haven't spoken to in a decade to ask for a huge interest-free loan when their brother needed cash.
And gotten it. And unlike any white person I've ever lent money to, actually paid it back. And then paid it forward by doing the same thing for other random acquaintances later. It's not an exaggeration so say I've seen em do this at least a dozen times. That's on top of the whole splitting your paycheque with your family thing and exchanging wads with everyone in envelopes once a year that everyone knows about.

And I dunno if it's changing but apparently it's conventional to save up, finish school, buy a house outright and then get married. Like owning a home was (is?) prerequisite to the marriage thing ideally... and clearly they get married and fuck thoroughly so I don't think they're anywhere near on our level when it comes to debt slavery.
Instead what drives em is the family thing. They never had the whole industrial suburban redesign of the family unit deal. As I understand it part of the reason for the one child policy (also kinda bullshit btw but that's a tangent) was because they way you retire is by having enough kids and getting em successful enough to support you, so people would have tried to dangerously overcompensate when things got shitty. That aside it honestly makes a lot more sense imo.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

About Chinese technological advances, it might not be true for other fields, but in the case of machine learning and AI the Chinese basically publish the same papers in perpetuity, taking some tiny transformation in a Neural Network and running the random parameters a billion times until they gain a tiny increase from the last paper dealing with the specific dataset. Or alternatively creating their own dataset and running a NN on it and then calling it an "achievement".

At least USA and EU papers will have some post/pre process engineering that is based on actual mathematics and understanding of the problem. The Chinese are intellectually bankrupt and usually don't even have a good code to replicate their findings. I heavily doubt it's not the same in virtually every other STEM field.

 

[Prester John]

I feel like people who say this do not really know how engineering works.

Most of industry and science is imitation. We're still "imitating" people's writings from the 1600s. Usually how it works in engineering is that you imitate what you're going for until you master that technology and THEN you innovate off that. It's the same for personal development as it is for organizations. It only makes sense to kickstart your knowledge base by aping your opponents products (especially when they make it so easy because you manufacture all of their stuff).

We are starting to see the Chinese innovate, especially as American technology development is slowing down (and in some ways going backwards).

They innovated a new virus.

 

[Toolbox]

About Chinese technological advances, it might not be true for other fields, but in the case of machine learning and AI the Chinese basically publish the same papers in perpetuity, taking some tiny transformation in a Neural Network and running the random parameters a billion times until they gain a tiny increase from the last paper dealing with the specific dataset. Or alternatively creating their own dataset and running a NN on it and then calling it an "achievement".

At least USA and EU papers will have some post/pre process engineering that is based on actual mathematics and understanding of the problem. The Chinese are intellectually bankrupt and usually don't even have a good code to replicate their findings. I heavily doubt it's not the same in virtually every other STEM field.

I'd rate if I could. Hasn't a lot of research been sold out to China simply because they have a lot more people (with government backing) to do the work it entails (and because most governments have sold out some industry to them in some way)? Especially AI work? A ton of the new stuff that comes out tends to be peppered in Chinese names. Even if a bulk of it is iterative improvement, a majority of deep learning in general seems to be owned by the CCP. I'm also assuming you're relating this to duplicate papers on stuff like face recognition and general graphical rendering improvements which are heavily iterative, though if you know some specifics that would be helpful.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I'd rate if I could. Hasn't a lot of research been sold out to China simply because they have a lot more people (with government backing) to do the work it entails (and because most governments have sold out some industry to them in some way)? Especially AI work? A ton of the new stuff that comes out tends to be peppered in Chinese names. Even if a bulk of it is iterative improvement, a majority of deep learning in general seems to be owned by the CCP. I'm also assuming you're relating this to duplicate papers on stuff like face recognition and general graphical rendering improvements which are heavily iterative, though if you know some specifics that would be helpful.

The amount of yellow and pajeets in western universities is distressing, but you can immediately discern the quality of an article just by the country present in the title. The better researchers are infinitely more likely to work in big tech than a chinese university.

 

[niqlo]

If the US imposed more restrictions on foreign trade and stuff, made it illegal for US companies to produce things in other countries, removed all their troops from other countries and used them to secure its borders and act as a defensive army, then its problems would be solved for the most part I think.

 

[Eggplant Wizard]

The US should lean hard into automation. All the way to the point where the only automation that is used in the America is produced in America. You’re going to need human workers until the machines for every possible type of repetitive labor are finished, even then you’re going to need human technicians to keep things running.

After several years of this we can offer really cheap prices for manufactured goods, nullifying the only advantage foreign labor has. Why outsource to China where you have to pretend atrocities don’t exist and they’re going to steal your copyrights and patents anyway when you can go to America and know that you’re going to have machines and technicians work things exactly to your specifications with minimal cost for labor?

Hell, put in a few years of actual study and you can work things out for agriculture as well, assuming that John Deere doesn’t already have some overpriced, restricted-maintenance bullshit sitting on top of it already. (They usually do).

 

[Rusty Crab]

The US should lean hard into automation. All the way to the point where the only automation that is used in the America is produced in America. You’re going to need human workers until the machines for every possible type of repetitive labor are finished, even then you’re going to need human technicians to keep things running.

After several years of this we can offer really cheap prices for manufactured goods, nullifying the only advantage foreign labor has. Why outsource to China where you have to pretend atrocities don’t exist and they’re going to steal your copyrights and patents anyway when you can go to America and know that you’re going to have machines and technicians work things exactly to your specifications with minimal cost for labor?

Hell, put in a few years of actual study and you can work things out for agriculture as well, assuming that John Deere doesn’t already have some overpriced, restricted-maintenance bullshit sitting on top of it already. (They usually do).

I'd agree, except half of america would be unemployed.

 

[Eggplant Wizard]

I'd agree, except half of america would be unemployed.

Unemployment would hit hard at the end of it all unless you learn some sort of maintenance skill, become a supervisor/manager, create something unique, or adapt in some other way. That being said, if we‘re able to compete with other countries for production contracts, the new automated facilities would still need construction workers to build them.

It would be a rough transitory period, I’ll admit that, but what else are we going to do? There will always be some abusive country out there willing to have someone make your shoes for $1.50 per week, so it is either evolve or go out with a whimper.