The ethics of eating meat -

[Russtard]

I've been thinking a lot about making the switch over to vegetarianism lately. Do you think that killing and eating other living things that can feel pain is ethical? Is it worse now than in the past because we don't really need to eat animals to live? Is taking eggs/cow's milk justifiable? Do the conditions that the animals are kept in make a difference to you? Post your opinions/experiences.

 

[Niggernerd]

I've been thinking a lot about making the switch over to vegetarianism lately. Do you think that killing and eating other living things that can feel pain is ethical? Is it worse now than in the past because we don't really need to eat animals to live? Is taking eggs/cow's tard cum justifiable? Do the conditions that the animals are kept in make a difference to you? Post your opinions/experiences.

just eat meat.

 

[Coconut Gun]

Yes, because I can, and I want to. If they didn't want us to eat them, they should just tell us. Oh wait, they can't, because they're fucking stupid. Eat shit, animals.

 

[PoisonedBun]

Animals eat animals, so I don't think being a meat eater is cruel. That said, I've been considering cutting down on meat recently to reduce carbon footprint, or focus on eating locally farmed/hunted meat. I don't think I could entirely cut meat out of my diet, but it's not hard to eat a little less.

More people should also raise chickens. Not only can you feed them otherwise wasted food scraps, they produce tons of eggs that last a long time, and if they're unfertilized the chickens don't need them anyways. Good source of protein. Going vegan is dumb.

 

[dunbrine47]

Eat meat: Animal Rights Man Bad.

 

[break these cuffs]

just eat meat.

and take up crossfit if you want a retarded reason to feel superior to everyone else.

 

[pomme]

I like eating meat but I'm usually put off by the fact that I don't normally know about how the animal was treated and what conditions it lived in. Feels much better eating meat/fish that were hunted or came from local farms. Tastier too.

If you like meat but dislike factory farming just buy from your local butcher and ask them if they know where they get their cuts from. It's also better for the environment if meat is locally sourced because there's less carbon emissions from transportation.

 

[JambledUpWords]

By cutting out meat, you risk losing out on B12 and possibly lacking some important animal fats, such as collagen. That said, vegetarian seems way better than vegan from a nutritional standpoint. Regardless, there will need to be more planning for meals and you’ll probably need to eat a higher quantity of food to obtain nutritional benefit.

From a moralistic standpoint, I see nothing wrong with eating meat or animal products in general. Modern cows have been domesticated to produce more than enough milk for offspring and humans alike. Meat has been eaten since the beginnings of humanity. Overall though, I personally want to get back to doing more pasture raised animals and grass fed beef because of the higher nutritional value it has compared to grain fed meat.

 

[Russtard]

I like eating meat but I'm usually put off by the fact that I don't normally know about how the animal was treated and what conditions it lived in. Feels much better eating meat/fish that were hunted or came from local farms. Tastier too.

If you like meat but dislike factory farming just buy from your local butcher and ask them if they know where they get their cuts from. It's also better for the environment if meat is locally sourced because there's less carbon emissions from transportation.

This is the main thing I’m worried about. I don’t eat a ton of meat right now but the idea of eating flesh doesn’t repulse me like some vegetarians/vegans. Plus birds like chickens produce eggs regardless of whether there’s a rooster to fertilize them, so eating eggs seems morally okay.

The factory farming shit is just so depressing. Every time I see or hear something about how chickens are treated it makes me so incredibly sad. I wish it was possible to raise chickens in the city.

 

[queue-anon]

Meat is bad for the environment in many ways, so I think it’s a good thing for people not to overindulge. 16 oz. steaks annoy me because of the waste. When you eat that much protein at once, your body can’t use most of it anyway.

A lot of animals don’t experience pain the way that we do. They try to avoid it, but they don’t seem to have the same emotional reaction to it. I tend to agree with Temple Grandin that humane treatment of livestock is more about reducing the amount of fear they experience. And, on that front, I think it’s more meaningful to treat animals for food reasonably well while they’re alive. That also has the benefit of making meat more expensive, which leads to people eating less, which leads to better environmental outcomes.

I was a vegetarian for about a decade, and I think much of my issues with depression and chronic fatigue several years in was linked to that diet. When people mention going vegetarian/vegan to me, above all, I try to convince them that, if they start experiencing poor health because of it, they really should consider eating meat again.

Animals eat animals, so I don't think being a meat eater is cruel. That said, I've been considering cutting down on meat recently to reduce carbon footprint, or focus on eating locally farmed/hunted meat. I don't think I could entirely cut meat out of my diet, but it's not hard to eat a little less.

More people should also raise chickens. Not only can you feed them otherwise wasted food scraps, they produce tons of eggs that last a long time, and if they're unfertilized the chickens don't need them anyways. Good source of protein. Going vegan is dumb.

Just keep in mind, raising chickens is really expensive. I have an acquaintance who DIYed her chicken coop and raised four chickens. Her long-term cost per egg was 60 cents, which makes for $7.20 a dozen which is crazy expensive. Cost wise it makes more sense to buy organic, free range eggs at the grocery store. They also don’t produce in the winter.

 

[pomme]

This is the main thing I’m worried about. I don’t eat a ton of meat right now but the idea of eating flesh doesn’t repulse me like some vegetarians/vegans. Plus birds like chickens produce eggs regardless of whether there’s a rooster to fertilize them, so eating eggs seems morally okay.

The factory farming shit is just so depressing. Every time I see or hear something about how chickens are treated it makes me so incredibly sad. I wish it was possible to raise chickens in the city.

Once had a chicken who's previous owner lived in the city and kept it inside as a pet. Not sure how ideal it was considering chicken shit is repulsive, but goes to show that it's possible.

 

[Russtard]

Meat is bad for the environment in many ways, so I think it’s a good thing for people not to overindulge. 16 oz. steaks annoy me because of the waste. When you eat that much protein at once, your body can’t use most of it anyway.

A lot of animals don’t experience pain the way that we do. They try to avoid it, but they don’t seem to have the same emotional reaction to it. I tend to agree with Temple Grandin that humane treatment of livestock is more about reducing the amount of fear they experience. And, on that front, I think it’s more meaningful to treat animals for food reasonably well while they’re alive. That also has the benefit of making meat more expensive, which leads to people eating less, which leads to better environmental outcomes.

I was a vegetarian for about a decade, and I think much of my issues with depression and chronic fatigue several years in was linked to that diet. When people mention going vegetarian/vegan to me, above all, I try to convince them that, if they start experiencing poor health because of it, they really should consider eating meat again.

This is the first time I’ve heard this perspective. Do you have any theories on why your diet was linked to depression?

 

[queue-anon]

This is the first time I’ve heard this perspective. Do you have any theories on why your diet was linked to depression?

I’ve seen some studies indicating it: https://www.forbes.com/sites/aliceg...ed-to-depression-study-suggests/#407ad2ef71e8

The most basic explanation is nutritional deficiencies affecting the brain, but I ate a pretty healthy vegetarian, not vegan, diet, and I supplemented iron and B vitamins. I used to work at a medical clinic, and it was the opinion of one doctor at the practice that, for most people, vegetarianism is only sustainable for about a decade until health consequences start catching up to them. Her theory was the lack of cholesterol was a big factor. The body can produce some cholesterol, but, according to her, not enough. She ultimately convinced me to go back to meat, and it really helped.

 

[Eryngium]

I've been thinking a lot about making the switch over to vegetarianism lately. Do you think that killing and eating other living things that can feel pain is ethical? Is it worse now than in the past because we don't really need to eat animals to live? Is taking eggs/cow's tard cum justifiable? Do the conditions that the animals are kept in make a difference to you? Post your opinions/experiences.

Morality and logic <<< it tastes fuckin delicious.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I've been thinking a lot about making the switch over to vegetarianism lately. Do you think that killing and eating other living things that can feel pain is ethical? Is it worse now than in the past because we don't really need to eat animals to live? Is taking eggs/cow's tard cum justifiable? Do the conditions that the animals are kept in make a difference to you? Post your opinions/experiences.

It's pretty hard to eat a well-balanced diet without eating meat. It's possible, but it's pretty hard and most vegetarians/vegans I know do seem to suffer some deficiencies in diet. Though if the alternative is eating BBQ specials pizza every night, well then it's easy to improve your diet by going vegan or vegetarian.

I've always found the case argued in the covenant of the wild by Stephen Budiansky to be a compelling one. To summarize it briefly and with at least a decade since last reading; Being domesticated is in some ways a far superior survival strategy for animals. Putting aside some of the harrowing industrial farming examples, how many cows would there be if we didn't make profit off them?
It is argued and I read this before I made a habit of researching what I read more extensively, so take with a grain of salt or even better; correct me if you have better facts; but the claim is made that in a good part of africa (I think it mentions northern africa, morocco/mauritania specifically), dogs are kind of semi-domesticated; they don't serve any purpose for humans, as either pets, hunting partners or guard dogs, but instead rely on man's mercy by cowering in front of humans. And are so allowed to live in essence under man's protection (Against more dangerous animals) and able to scavenge for food in villages and such.

Now forgive me for having this discussion with myself out loud, but immediately I'm skeptical; I've been to one african country, though it was far from morocco and mauritania and dogs were treated horribly. Also, I know that typically muslims don't like dogs because their prophet didn't.

It's like a dog getting treats when he does his business in the far end of the garden.. Have you trained the dog to do his business, or has the dog trained you to give it treats? I remember my neighbour observing that her husky over a couple of weeks learned to separate its shitting into 6 times during the day to earn more treats.

Well this is more of a meandering comment than I typically write. I really need to reread.

I think there is a significant moral difference between killing animals for food or goods (like leather) and say, torturing an animal. The intention for killing isn't to inflict pain. I think the further people live from animals the more likely they have these utopian ideas about animal welfare, which can sometimes be a surrogate desire to being more connected animals/nature.

One of the reasons for that is that we can not communicate with animals; we can not make deals with them, trade with them, conduct diplomacy with them, as such I can never regard the ethics of killing animals and humans equivalent.

And when animals are properly taken care off, it's a tradeoff that although the animal can't consent to it; it's easy to see that it is not bad a deal for animals to enter into if they did have the ability to choose so. Of course it's debatable whether they are typically taken care off well, but that's why I asked to put to the side that part.

 

[Quijibo69]

All human food is made from trash. So eat the meat.

 

[ColtWalker1847]

Overall though, I personally want to get back to doing more pasture raised animals and grass fed beef because of the higher nutritional value it has compared to grain fed meat.

Most cattle is "grass fed". They live their lives on the range and only spend the last 3-6 months on a finishing feedlot getting fattened up with a diet of grain plus hay and other supplements to improve their market value. This stuff is quite literally a science.
The stuff sold as grass-fed were fatter on the range and skipped finishing. The extra cost is marketing and distribution overhead combined with the lower market weight of the animals.

Just keep in mind, raising chickens is really expensive. I have an acquaintance who DIYed her chicken coop and raised four chickens. Her long-term cost per egg was 60 cents, which makes for $7.20 a dozen which is crazy expensive. Cost wise it makes more sense to buy organic, free range eggs at the grocery store. They also don’t produce in the winter.

Eh. Where people derail is buying all their shit at Home Depot and the farm&feed store, dropping a grand plus just setting up. If you modify a shitty old shed into a coop and insulate it with scrounged foam board or whatever then warm/light it in the winter you can get those costs down and production up.
It's not going to be as cheap as store bought generic normal eggs but it won't be a huge ripoff either. About what they charge for the tree-hugger hippy eggs.

 

[Sprig of Parsley]

Shit dies or is killed all the fucking time. It'll happen with us or without us. You kill things every damn day. Get over it. Maybe if people had a better connection to the whole fucking chain of food production and made better choices about who they buy it from this wouldn't be such a hand-wringer.

 

[Smug Chuckler]

But if people don't eat meat, the poor cows won't have a purpose and will have to survive in the wilderness with the hungry wolves.

 

[Kamiii]

Why are animals made of food