The experiences of unintelligent creatures - Like being a retard but worse

Watermelanin

Proud self-hating degenerate
kiwifarms.net
This is an idea that has crossed my mind many times, and it may not be one that I can express in eloquent terms. So fuck the eloquence; I'll type it as it comes:
Let's assume, for a moment, that all things with a central nervous system (and maybe even those that don't) have some level of sentience. self awareness (in terms of the mirror test) doesn't necessarily apply here. I'm talking bout the ability for organisms to experience things in general. I'm going to disregard any form of "philosophical zombie" or "automata" based reasoning here and simply assume all things that appear to be conscious are.
There is a clear evolutionary pathway for such a trait. Pain signifies something to be avoided and pleasure is something to actively seek. Something causes pain? Stop doing it. Something causes pleasure? Keep doing that. Those organisms whose pain/pleasure sources most closely match what is necessary for survival and reproduction will generally be more likely to survive and breed. There's a whole discussion to be had about this theory of consciousness (and, quite frankly, that's what this thread probably should have been about), but I want to focus primarily on those lower organisms that don't have our reasoning ability.
Personally: I just pissed on a crane fly that managed to make it inside my house and inside the rim of my toilet. It landed in the water, of course, and I kept pissing on it before flushing. I got to bear witness to the mindless thrashing it was performing before I pulled that knob. Assuming this bug had some kind of sentience, I think it suffered more than most humans can imagine. And I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel a little bit bad for it. Yet that might be a better way to go than victims of the tarantula hawk wasp, or any spider for that matter.

To tie together my sporadic writing:
the assumption that these creatures feel pain and the understanding that they lack the same cognitive abilities that humans have lends itself to one conclusion: They suffer MORE when they suffer. They feel just like we do, yet they do not have the ability to put it into context. They don't necessarily understand why they are going through whatever predicament they are going through. They just know that they are going through it. Imagine being some sort of animal that pretty much only knows pleasure and pain. To be a bit anthropocentric: imagine your murderer biting and clawing at your entrails without regard for your suffering, seemingly for no reason, and (even if you could ask him why he's doing it) you're met only with silence and more pain until your inevitable death. The cherry on top being that you don't even understand concepts like "sadism" or the food chain. All you know is this other animal found you, chose to inflict this harm upon you, and there's not a damn thing to do about it. That is hell.
 

Lemmingwise

✊Black in solidarity with black lives matter✊
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
but I want to focus primarily on those lower organisms that don't have our reasoning ability
Women?


Personally: I just pissed on a crane fly that managed to make it inside my house and inside the rim of my toilet. It landed in the water, of course, and I kept pissing on it before flushing. I got to bear witness to the mindless thrashing it was performing before I pulled that knob. Assuming this bug had some kind of sentience, I think it suffered more than most humans can imagine.
I think you just fixed that because anyone reading that will be in more pain than that bug was.

------

But to skip out on meme answers, your reasoning is completely flawed.

There is no sign that kack of consciousness and memory induces more suffering.

It also means no regrets, no depression, less anxiety. No still feeling bad over something you said or did years ago. Heck no such thing about what happened minutes ago. It's what new dog owners have to get used to, that to a dog it's mostly just the "now" that matters. It's why they use clickers to help the dog identify what behaviour earned him the treat in training.

In all likelyhood a wasp has far less pain and suffering than we do. There is just less brain and emotional development to process it. The moment they start writing greek tragedies, let me know.


The hell you describe, requires the ability to tie the concept of pain to problem solving. Without the concept of problem solving (and the developed amygdala to do it), then there isn't the sisyphean edistentialism of having unpreventable pain.

It's just pain.

The meaning you're trying to ascribe exists purely because we put it there and we put it there due to our increased cognitive abilities and that our brain won't shut up thinking about stuff.
 

Some JERK

I ain't drunk, I'm just drinkin'
kiwifarms.net
There's research that suggests that insects lack the necessary neural complexity to feel pain as we understand it. Likewise with fear. Both are large components in the concept of suffering.
 

Basil II

My vision is augmented
kiwifarms.net
Women?




I think you just fixed that because anyone reading that will be in more pain than that bug was.

------

But to skip out on meme answers, your reasoning is completely flawed.

There is no sign that kack of consciousness and memory induces more suffering.

It also means no regrets, no depression, less anxiety. No still feeling bad over something you said or did years ago. Heck no such thing about what happened minutes ago. It's what new dog owners have to get used to, that to a dog it's mostly just the "now" that matters. It's why they use clickers to help the dog identify what behaviour earned him the treat in training.

In all likelyhood a wasp has far less pain and suffering than we do. There is just less brain and emotional development to process it. The moment they start writing greek tragedies, let me know.


The hell you describe, requires the ability to tie the concept of pain to problem solving. Without the concept of problem solving (and the developed amygdala to do it), then there isn't the sisyphean edistentialism of having unpreventable pain.

It's just pain.

The meaning you're trying to ascribe exists purely because we put it there and we put it there due to our increased cognitive abilities and that our brain won't shut up thinking about stuff.
The way you put it makes it sound like all animals have permanent dementia which still sounds like hell tbh.
 

Lemmingwise

✊Black in solidarity with black lives matter✊
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The way you put it makes it sound like all animals have permanent dementia which still sounds like hell tbh.
Ever gotten deep into meditation where you're just in the now and very tranquil? Or get into zen-like state while playing a game or doing drugs? It's more like that.

And no, animals can have pretty good memory. It's just that most don't have the planning ability that humans have and that makes them worse at preparing stuff, worse at planning stuff, and worse at feeling anxious about stuff.
 

Basil II

My vision is augmented
kiwifarms.net
Ever gotten deep into meditation where you're just in the now and very tranquil? Or get into zen-like state while playing a game or doing drugs? It's more like that.

And no, animals can have pretty good memory. It's just that most don't have the planning ability that humans have and that makes them worse at preparing stuff, worse at planning stuff, and worse at feeling anxious about stuff.
Yeah I know what you mean, being an animal sounds chill tbh, I have a guinea pig and he just hangs out and eats hay and he seems pretty content with it. I was a bit skeptical cause animals obviously have long term memory (their relationships with other animals and humans for example.)
 
Tags
None