The Final Fantasy Thread -

Exbein

I'm not Huckebein
kiwifarms.net
The black outline you usually assign the property to the camera now which will trace all the surrounding objects, the flipped normals on an slightly enlarged model can kind of fuck with shit in unintended ways at least with what I've done with it. The bends in the arms and legs tends to be the most noticiblebecause you still have to do the envelopes for it, for facial closeups it's fine but if you're doing full body that's when it rears it's head with problems. Also stuff like aprons and other long flowing clothes you'll have intersecting polys more frequently.

The one drawback of the camera tracing stuff is that at a certain distance it will either have all the objects be all black in the distance or not render right.
These stuff have been solved in years. If you have been taught by a teacher, go back to him and slap him in the face and ask for a refund, he didn't teach you properly. If self-taught, pls lurk more on a lot of 3d forums.

I am not going to explain it in huge details, and the post earlier is just a quick explanation. But to give a hint on how to solve on what you are agonizing about: The outline is sometimes part of the mesh itself or actually part of the texture
 

Richard29

kiwifarms.net
Somewhat old post, but going back to the FF6 discussion this guy is actually an experienced professional translator. He was also behind many fan translations including Mother 3, which is absolutely top notch for a fan localization. I agree with him about GBA being the best overall translation. Seriously, his breakdown could be best summarized by saying "SNES sucks but it has charm, fan translation outright sucks, GBA pretty much fixes everything and tries to keep some of the SNES charm".
Ah thats kind of cool though!

Its just he seemed tad bit over there with "WHY PHANTOM BEAST :( and not espers"
But i do admire talent. I read on the webpage that they do admit to "Eidolon" being a thing atleast interms of the FF6 translation analysis
 

Marissa Moira

kiwifarms.net
These stuff have been solved in years. If you have been taught by a teacher, go back to him and slap him in the face and ask for a refund, he didn't teach you properly. If self-taught, pls lurk more on a lot of 3d forums.

I am not going to explain it in huge details, and the post earlier is just a quick explanation. But to give a hint on how to solve on what you are agonizing about: The outline is sometimes part of the mesh itself or actually part of the texture
I think you're mis-understanding my point.

There's multiple ways to achieve the same effect but none of them are exactly optimal(as compared to other styles).Personally I tend to paint my own textures rather than duplicating for the black outline because that jacks up the poly count.

Like even the new adobe programs are not exactly geared towards stylized 3d and at most with the default stuff you can get world of warcraft type painted textures. There's definitely a bias towards specific styles. especially when it comes to hair strand generation. Blender probably has one of the better hair sculpting tools, but other than that it's not exactly a standard. Extruding along curves for specific types of bangs isn't an ideal substitute. Maya's default hair tools are generally crap but those are also geared towards realistic looking hair and not stylized.
 
Last edited:
  • Feels
Reactions: Smaug's Smokey Hole

Exbein

I'm not Huckebein
kiwifarms.net
I think you're mis-understanding my point.

There's multiple ways to achieve the same effect but none of them are exactly optimal(as compared to other styles).Personally I tend to paint my own textures rather than duplicating for the black outline because that jacks up the poly count.
if that is actually what you believe, go back to your teacher and slap him again, he or she ripped you off with your tuition. tris doesn't even eat a lot of ram. even a 100k tris character would only eat 16 kbs of ram. its the maps, shaders, ai pathing and executions is what eats the ram.
 

Marissa Moira

kiwifarms.net
if that is actually what you believe, go back to your teacher and slap him again, he or she ripped you off with your tuition. tris doesn't even eat a lot of ram. even a 100k tris character would only eat 16 kbs of ram. its the maps, shaders, ai pathing and executions is what eats the ram.
It's less about teachers and more about bosses.

Certain places just tend to like stuff done certain ways. The few instances where a black outline was needed they just suggested I paint my own or apply it in post and don't duplicate, it's roughly the same amount of effort for either since you just trace the UV map outline. For my own personal stuff I'll be more elaborate and experiment.

They don't necessarily teach stylized 3d modeling in schools you're lucky if you can get a specialized course in rendering because those almost always get cut and never fill the minimum student count.
 

Someone in a Tree

It's the ripple, not the sea that is happening
kiwifarms.net
I’m about to start Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age. This will be my first experience with the game. Any pointers or suggestions?
 

Smaug's Smokey Hole

no corona
kiwifarms.net
if that is actually what you believe, go back to your teacher and slap him again, he or she ripped you off with your tuition. tris doesn't even eat a lot of ram. even a 100k tris character would only eat 16 kbs of ram. its the maps, shaders, ai pathing and executions is what eats the ram.
wtf dude, a 100k character is going to take up way, way, way more memory than 16kb, that's excluding UVs and triangle lists. Just run the numbers on that, please. Whoever taught you should get the the firmly handshake, as a pretense to deliver a knee to the balls while you scream 'you failed me'.

You're overly harsh, and wrong, talking to that other dude @Marissa Moira
 

Marissa Moira

kiwifarms.net
We kind of resolved it through DMs, but when i was talking about animated painted textures.

I mean something like glass painting animation(but using 3d models) which would probably be the only way to properly emulate nomura's style in 3d.


This has not been done with games before because the whole part of the style is that shit redraws itself while the camera moves. in film this works but in games it would be a feat in itself because the player controls the camera. You want your top end machine to chug, try having every second of game time be like that at 60 frames.

It's not a widely known animation technique so i should have clarified, but anything overly painterly or stuff that relies on having the texture of the paint and art materials be prominent would have a style like this be ideal. The video shows a more classic western style since it's VVG, but Nomura's would not be that much different as far as painted textures needing to be animated with every second of camera change since he also has a very textured painting and drawing style.

But yeah the new generations of game engines still are pushing realism to the forefront and are not branching out into catering towards other styles.
 
Last edited:

Smaug's Smokey Hole

no corona
kiwifarms.net
We kind of resolved it through DMs, but when i was talking about animated painted textures.

I mean something like glass painting animation(but using 3d models) which would probably be the only way to properly emulate nomura's style in 3d.


This has not been done with games before because the whole part of the style is that shit redraws itself while the camera moves. in film this works but in games it would be a feat in itself because the player controls the camera. You want your top end machine to chug, try having every second of game time be like that at 60 frames.

It's not a widely known animation technique so i should have clarified, but anything overly painterly or stuff that relies on having the texture of the paint and art materials be prominent would have a style like this be ideal. The video shows a more classic western style since it's VVG, but Nomura's would not be that much different as far as painted textures needing to be animated with every second of camera change since he also has a very textured painting and drawing style.

But yeah the new generations of game engines still are pushing realism to the forefront and are not branching out into catering towards other styles.
He was still a dick and wrong.

Ever checked out The Last Express? The video you linked is computer facilitated rotoscoping, and if they can do it offline with real footage they could fake something similar in realtime with computer generated footage.
 

Exbein

I'm not Huckebein
kiwifarms.net
wtf dude, a 100k character is going to take up way, way, way more memory than 16k, that's excluding UVs and triangle lists. Just run the numbers on that, please. Whoever taught you should get the the firmly handshake, as a pretense to deliver a knee to the balls while you scream 'you failed me'.

You're overly harsh, and wrong, talking to that other dude @Marissa Moira
Nah, I worked on some anime games where characters are going on around 58k tris then have them basically doubled to around 98k (removed some of the tris because the some of the flipped normals would hinder the outline effect). then again it is anime fighters, so the poly budget for characters are really high. a simple 50k tris with black flat color with no maps with flipped normals wouldnt eat so much ram.

but I guess you're right, I rarely see a 100k tris characters, but mostly it is because it is a bitch to rig and stuff, and we have good middleware retopologizers now
 

Smaug's Smokey Hole

no corona
kiwifarms.net
Nah, I worked on some anime games where characters are going on around 58k tris then have them basically doubled to around 98k (removed some of the tris because the some of the flipped normals would hinder the outline effect). then again it is anime fighters, so the poly budget for characters are really high. a simple 50k tris with black flat color with no maps with flipped normals wouldnt eat so much ram.

but I guess you're right, I rarely see a 100k tris characters, but mostly it is because it is a bitch to rig and stuff, and we have good middleware retopologizers now
No, you are absolutely wrong. Please, tell me what a vertice is and how many bytes it uses.
 

Exbein

I'm not Huckebein
kiwifarms.net
uncompressed, 1 vertex usually takes 12 bytes and 6 bytes per triangle, additional around 12 bytes per normal and aroun 10 bytes for per vertex uv info
 

Smaug's Smokey Hole

no corona
kiwifarms.net
uncompressed, 1 vertex usually takes 12 bytes and 6 bytes per triangle, additional around 12 bytes per normal and aroun 10 bytes for per vertex uv info
Alright, just to make it easy let's assume that's correct. You said a 100k polygon(triangle) model took up 16kb of space but according to your own numbers, if we are trusting the 6kb per triangle(despite 12b per vertex), it's up to 600 kilobyte. Quite a change, it's like the numbers are wrong.

It makes me wonder about this hyper-compression and the ins and outs of it. There's a lot of things to compress but spatial geometry have always been something the eye notices.
 

Dr. Geronimo

Echo chambers are bad for your health.
kiwifarms.net
Has there been any word yet of them releasing an official 7R OST? The soundtrack is the only thing I like about the game.
 

GethN7

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Has there been any word yet of them releasing an official 7R OST? The soundtrack is the only thing I like about the game.
I do like some of the idea behind the remake, some are clever. The Hell House being a legit fight whose absurdity gets a mention is clever. Turning the Rufus Shinra fight into something legit hard with a new script that the guy who voiced Rufus delivered with some amazing panache. The music in general and most of the voice acting is pretty good too.

Most of the the rest just has me shaking me head at strangeness though, but I can't deny the manure bucket has a few diamonds in it.
 

Be patient I have lurkism

Please
kiwifarms.net
I do like some of the idea behind the remake, some are clever. The Hell House being a legit fight whose absurdity gets a mention is clever. Turning the Rufus Shinra fight into something legit hard with a new script that the guy who voiced Rufus delivered with some amazing panache. The music in general and most of the voice acting is pretty good too.

Most of the the rest just has me shaking me head at strangeness though, but I can't deny the manure bucket has a few diamonds in it.
It's already been discussed in this thread, but I really can't overstate how r,etarded the ending felt to me. It only gets worse the more I think about it.
 
Tags
None