The Final Fantasy Thread -

[Coldgrip]

So I've just gotten past the fight with Roche and I'm liking it so far. Makes me wonder if we'll bump into more characters from SOLDIER, because I always thought the organization was really underutilized in the original.

And would someone please get Jessie a glass of water, because that bitch be thirsty.

 

[Blamo]

I really can't wait until the whole game gets remade and each one of those events is embellished to hell.

Maybe in 203X!

 

[eternal dog mongler]

I think this is why I like 12 more than most sane people do. It feels like it has the right balance still.

FF12 has a weird story and gameplay disconnect going on though.

Vaan has been killing rats for all of about 90 minutes when he's joined by veteran sky pirates Balthier and Fran, who are...one level higher than him. Okay.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Worlds Collide are randomizers; but, since no seed is never finished, people play it to see how far they get before resetting.

People finish WC runs all the time. Not sure what you mean here.

 

[JamesFargo]

People finish WC runs all the time. Not sure what you mean here.

Huh. I stand corrected.

 

[Well Intentioned]

Huh. I stand corrected.

Generally, if people get 'stuck' in a seed, they're either missing a character check, or haven't checked an open check (typically the Kefka at Narshe scenario.)

There's even a small racing community for it on Twitch.

Edit: There's also a couple of instances where you can softlock yourself by getting into a battle that you can't win. MagiTek Factory and Lete River are both instances you can fuck yourself if the randomizer gives you a bad fight and you didn't backup save.

 

[JamesFargo]

Vaan has been killing rats for all of about 90 minutes when he's joined by veteran sky pirates Balthier and Fran, who are...one level higher than him. Okay.

It wouldn't be an issue if Balthier awarded his "leading man" status to Vaan. But that didn't happen until the spinoff. (Which nobody played.) This is entirely Balthier's caper. What insight does Vaan provide?

It's obvious that half the development team disagreed with the other half.

 

[Tealeaf]

Games like the Mana remakes were easier because they were smaller, world-wise, and the use of tile sets in the original meant the remake could use the same design for multiple areas each.

To use Trials of Mana as an example, no, it doesn’t reuse any areas. Every single 2D background in the original was modeled into 3D areas with remarkable faithfulness to the original playable areas. Sure, the game may be smaller than Final Fantasy games tend to be, but it’s by no means a small game.

The main difference is that Mana is less important to Square Enix and there’s not as much executive meddling to blow up the scope, drown the developers in funding and/or milk the franchise for money. They just outsourced Trials of Mana to a mobile game developer (Xeen) and called it a day. Not to denigrate the developers, they did a great job in balancing modern quality of life with the classic stuff with what they had.

While technically very doable, to do the same for Final Fantasy would require Square Enix to be reasonable with the budget and scope for their darling franchise. And let someone else do it.

 

[Shield Breaker]

To use Trials of Mana as an example, no, it doesn’t reuse any areas. Every single 2D background in the original was modeled into 3D areas with remarkable faithfulness to the original playable areas. Sure, the game may be smaller than Final Fantasy games tend to be, but it’s by no means a small game.

The main difference is that Mana is less important to Square Enix and there’s not as much executive meddling to blow up the scope, drown the developers in funding and/or milk the franchise for money. They just outsourced Trials of Mana to a mobile game developer (Xeen) and called it a day. Not to denigrate the developers, they did a great job in balancing modern quality of life with the classic stuff with what they had.

While technically very doable, to do the same for Final Fantasy would require Square Enix to be reasonable with the budget and scope for their darling franchise. And let someone else do it.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. I don't mean they're literally reused, I mean the assets are reused. Most areas share assets with other areas:


The trees, rock face, etc can be used in multiple places, but it is still a faithful recreation due to the original using tile sets which shared designs. Now compare any area in the PSX games compared to another, and they don't share assets.

 

[JamesFargo]

Now compare any area in the PSX games compared to another, and they don't share assets.

Hot damn, that game looks great. They didn't meddle with the soundtrack, either. The gold standard of 3D remakes.

 

[Tealeaf]

The trees, rock face, etc can be used in multiple places, but it is still a faithful recreation due to the original using tile sets which shared designs. Now compare any area in the PSX games compared to another, and they don't share assets.

To be fair even the elaborate painted backgrounds in PSX Final Fantasies are full of repetition and generic themed objects that can be turned into reusable assets. They have to look familiar to the player and have continuity from screen to screen.

There are only so many different trees, hallways and building architectures. It doesn’t have to be a pixel perfect recreation, just faithful resemblance.

You are right that a tile set gives you objects to turn into reusable assets right off the bat but I don’t think identifying them from static backgrounds is an unreasonably hard intermediate step.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

It wouldn't be an issue if Balthier awarded his "leading man" status to Vaan. But that didn't happen until the spinoff. (Which nobody played.) This is entirely Balthier's caper. What insight does Vaan provide?

It's obvious that half the development team disagreed with the other half.

Supposedly Ashe was supposed to be the main character earlier in development.

I can see it. Ashe is the only party member who has a reason to do the stuff you're doing, and Basch is tagging along because he's sworn to protect her. Everyone else is just there because they have nothing better to do and they're like eh fuck it let's go overthrow the evil empire.

 

[JamesFargo]

Everyone else is just there because they have nothing better to do and they're like eh fuck it let's go overthrow the evil empire.

Balthier is an ex-Judge or something.

That's like item #2 on the Marty Stu how-to guide

 

[Coldgrip]

Supposedly Ashe was supposed to be the main character earlier in development.

I can see it. Ashe is the only party member who has a reason to do the stuff you're doing, and Basch is tagging along because he's sworn to protect her. Everyone else is just there because they have nothing better to do and they're like eh fuck it let's go overthrow the evil empire.

I seem to recall that Vaan was added much later in the development due to Square wanting a character that would click with kids or something like that.

Either way, 12 sucked.

 

[eternal dog mongler]

Either way, 12 sucked.

Counterpoint: it's good.

It's one of the only FFs that requires you to know how to break the game if you want to do all of the hunts as soon as possible, like how you can set up an evade tank against Marilith.

 

[Coldgrip]

Counterpoint: it's good.

It's one of the only FFs that requires you to know how to break the game if you want to do all of the hunts as soon as possible, like how you can set up an evade tank against Marilith.

counter counter point: It has Vaan, so it sucks.

 

[JamesFargo]

Counterpoint: it's good.

DON'T BELIEVE ONDORE'S LIES!

12 is incredibly divisive. I chalk it up to Matsuno leaving the company. For some folks out there, this is the last time Square made something of quality.

I never finished it. There are way too many ways to over-level your characters. Scenarios are detached from the plot. Vayne isn't closely examined. The Star Wars parallels are abundant (and not in a good way). Penelo is the strongest character wtf.

requires you to know how to break the game if you want to do all of the hunts as soon as possible,

I broke a sweat fighting Firemane. Didn't expect the first boss to give me a run for my money. I'd definitely recommend ignoring the Mark Hunts if you don't want to neuter the game entirely.

 

[Marissa Moira]

The one thing I hated about 12 was collecting all the wood chops to enter the city.

What even were they, carved wooden porkchops?

 

[Cantercoin]

counter counter point: It has Vaan, so it sucks.

Counter point x 3: Fran has a great ass

 

[JamesFargo]

Counter point x 3: Fran has a great ass

It belongs in a museum.