The Great Porn Debate - The Coomites vs Anti-Faparians

Niggaplease

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See, I'd be open to the anti-porn side if they can provide a valid argument for their case, and a valid solution to the problem. However, all they ever seem to spout is moral bullshit for their arguments and prohibition for their solution.

The problem with the average anti-porn argument is that prohibition simply does not work. We saw it with alcohol in the 1920's and our society is just now realizing how badly prohibition of drugs has backfired for the past fifty years. Even with the unique addictive properties and lethality of certain hard drugs like meth, cocaine, or heroin, prohibition has done nothing to stop the problem and in many cases, it has made society worse.

Prohibition of porn would be even more detrimental to society, just like prohibition of alcohol was in the 1920's. The genie is out of the bottle and there's no putting it back in.

As for being a fundamentalist, there isn't any concrete information that proves porn is specifically more harmful than other vices when responsibly consumed by adults and even if there were, the only solutions that are consistently being proposed are ineffective at best and exponentially counterproductive at worst.

Honestly, I'd be more open to the anti-porn side's arguments if they could successfully pull off these three things.


1. Provide concrete proof of porn being uniquely detrimental compared to other vices or forms of media, with at least two or three credible sources. Again, keep in mind that I'm talking about adults viewing porn. I do agree that minors should not have easy access to porn.

2. Provide a reasonable solution the problem that could actually be effective. Simply banning it and revoking any First Amendment protections it has is not a viable solution.

3. Not invoke morality arguments like "muh degeneracy", "muh traditionalism", or "muh World Jewry"
I belong in the sect of rad feminism that believes all sex work is exploitation. Porn falls underneath that banner.
there has been documented instances in which porn hub has let porn of underage teen girls on its platform. While I personally feel like banning porn in it entierity would accomplish nothing productive, I feel platforms such as pornhub should be held legally accountable for letting under age porn on its site. Just as much as the personal user. Banning something outright accomplishes shit, but by making publishers legally accountable them adhere to the same laws as an individual user might be held can effect actual change as there whole profit can go bye bye.
porn isn't detremential to the consumer as much as alcohol and cigarettes are. That is the consumers choice to make alone. However the system in of itself exploitable to those working. Who really grows up and says they want to be a porn star? Many times producers can overlook contracts, also didn't one porn star off herself because she refused to fuck a guy who did gay for pay porn? Often times we're sold the illusion of choice when in actuality refusing to do a certain thing can fuck some ones livelihood up. The problem doesn't lie in the consumption of porn it lies in the system behind it. the only way is to regulate it legally so there's no abuse of power. not banning it when then in that cause porn will still be produced and opens the door to further exploitation.
 
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Drain Todger

Unhinged Doomsayer
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What kind of brainlet watches porn? You mean you can’t generate porn on demand inside your head? I’m watching porn all the time, even at work, even with my phone in my pocket, and nobody has any idea. I’m sitting in the break room having lunch and looking at a guy eating almonds or something, and in my head, I see a big-titted Venezuelan lady oiled from head to toe and getting her pussy plowed. I can even hear the plaps. Fuckin’ NPCs and their aphantasia, man. Every single time. Trade in your walnut for a real brain, lol. :lit:
 

Just wandering

kiwifarms.net
I'm not against or pro porn. I think banning it or even attempting at regulating it on internet is impossible. Look at china They are the biggest censorer yet everyone jump above the firewall with VPN. Contrary to the local small sex shop internet is universal. You can ban it but people will just use an VPN and they can go to a foreign server where the country dosen't ban porn. It the same with milder regulation why should site comply when they can go to a server without regulation? at best it will only hit the local porn industry
 

Lemmingwise

Judging you internally
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kiwifarms.net
See, I'd be open to the anti-porn side if they can provide a valid argument for their case, and a valid solution to the problem. However, all they ever seem to spout is moral bullshit for their arguments and prohibition for their solution.

The problem with the average anti-porn argument is that prohibition simply does not work. We saw it with alcohol in the 1920's and our society is just now realizing how badly prohibition of drugs has backfired for the past fifty years. Even with the unique addictive properties and lethality of certain hard drugs like meth, cocaine, or heroin, prohibition has done nothing to stop the problem and in many cases, it has made society worse.

Prohibition of porn would be even more detrimental to society, just like prohibition of alcohol was in the 1920's. The genie is out of the bottle and there's no putting it back in.

As for being a fundamentalist, there isn't any concrete information that proves porn is specifically more harmful than other vices when responsibly consumed by adults and even if there were, the only solutions that are consistently being proposed are ineffective at best and exponentially counterproductive at worst.

Honestly, I'd be more open to the anti-porn side's arguments if they could successfully pull off these three things.


1. Provide concrete proof of porn being uniquely detrimental compared to other vices or forms of media, with at least two or three credible sources. Again, keep in mind that I'm talking about adults viewing porn. I do agree that minors should not have easy access to porn.

2. Provide a reasonable solution the problem that could actually be effective. Simply banning it and revoking any First Amendment protections it has is not a viable solution.

3. Not invoke morality arguments like "muh degeneracy", "muh traditionalism", or "muh World Jewry"

Here's a valid solution: educate the public on the ways that it is harmful.

We did it for smoking. You don't need full on prohibition to decrease societal usage of something. Forbidding something completely works contraproductively to the human spirit. But making something uncool works wonders. Right now a culture is actively cultivated where fucking your sister is a porn meme.

For example, you can't scroll 2 pages on reddit without running into incest normalization.

You could also compare it to mcdonalds, sugared drinks and obesity in the US. This is a company that actively researches how to manipulate people into getting hooked on unhealthy food, and the mcsalad is part of that strategy.

Another part is making sure an appeal is made to the subconscious of people (also by going for their weakspot: their kids).

So if you want to talk solutions, one solution is to gradually push it where it's just a little less socially acceptable. Restraints in mainstream media are helpful here too and I'm not even talking about straight hays code application.

You don't need me sitting in the chair of expert on societal modifactions though. These experts exist and will be better at it than I. What you need is sufficient people to see the value in it.

But with that said, it isn't some impossible feat that requires a draconian prohibition.

--

You can't really start with the solutions until first people start to see the problems. Smoking of course is tied viscerally to death (unhealthy to life expectancy). Any type of regulation of smoking, like bans on showing it in movies or ads, sound insane, unless first the argument about its harm is accepted.

The link between porn usage and decreased motivation isn't studied. It's actively avoided. The other harmful effect like damage to relationships, the inflation of expectations of sex causing to difficulty in healthy sex life and other sexual problems are also understudied.

While the mainstream of science does not reject all the false research of kinsey, money and the others that the sexual and trans revolution are based off, there is little hope of progress.



--


Another fairly recent change is that (like mcdonalds) porn is being marketed to young adults more and more. As a result it is not easy to prevent underage children to come into (repeated) contact with it and this is a considerable change.

This morphs how sexuality itself is viewed. So it stops being something that adults use to relieve themselves and also becomes a considerable component in laying the foundation of attitudes and thoughts towards sex.

---

The fact that you admit being immune to moral arguments is an indictment rather than speaking in your defense. You may say muh morals, but then any law becomes obsolete.

Why shouldn't I be able to steal? One needs to start at the moral argument and then build towards solutions.
 
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Zero Day Defense

Shave your face with some mace in the dark
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Porn in itself is not naturally evil or anything,
It's created through the exploitation of the female body. It is functionally no different than prostitution outside the not actually having sex with the consumer. Consumption involves enslaving the sexual impulses of men and women for profit. You could probably count on one hand how many adult film actors and producers don't have a mental disorder. The line delineating rape from acting in rape porn is the product of spray paint fired on windy, grassy field from 30 feet high. Some commercialized genres involve active bodily harm, and I'm not even talking about BDSM. An entire genre involves the commodification of women as barely of age as possible, meaning they're preyed upon either right after or before that point.

Combine this with everything you could point out by yourself-- how is it not evil?
 

HarryTrueman

kiwifarms.net
It's created through the exploitation of the female body.
Nobody forces women being filmed in porn flicks, and unlike prostitution, women are the same consumers of porn just like men. Most of them, if not entirely all women watch porn primarily for sexualized male actors (although some of them also tend to lust over lesbian actresses), and "somehow" no one says it's the exploitation of the male body.
 
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Zero Day Defense

Shave your face with some mace in the dark
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Nobody forces women being filmed in porn flicks,
That doesn't mean they're not being exploited in the process. Exploitation doesn't necessitate coercion.

and unlike prostitution, women are the same consumers of porn just like men.
What does this even mean?

Most of them, if not entirely all women watch porn primarily for sexualized male actors (although some of them also tend to lust over lesbian actresses), and "somehow" no one says it's the exploitation of the male body.
How is this relevant to anything? I mean, sure, my oversight-- it commodifies an exploits man and woman, producer and consumer alike.
 

HarryTrueman

kiwifarms.net
does this even mean?
How is this relevant to anything? I mean, sure, my oversight-- it commodifies an exploits man and woman, producer and consumer alike.
That means that demand creates supply. Women both consciously sexualize themselves and consume the product made with "the exploitation of the female body". If anyone is to blame why porn is so popular nowadays, which makes the so called exploitation possible in the first place, then it's women themselves. I still have a few questions regarding your message below.
That doesn't mean they're not being exploited in the process. Exploitation doesn't necessitate coercion.
What exactly do you mean by exploitation? Is it that in porn videos, that women are voluntarily participating in, the attention is focused on the female body, even if the actresses are personally not against this, or how are women supposedly unpaid for their work, which doesn't have anything to do with their bodies?
 
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Lemmingwise

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That means that demand creates supply. Women both consciously sexualize themselves and consume the product made with "the exploitation of the female body". If anyone is to blame why porn is so popular nowadays, which makes the so called exploitation possible in the first place, then it's women themselves. I still have a few questions regarding your message below
Women are actually quite bad at competing without the structures built by men to turn a profit by production of porn. None of the companies are built or maintained by women anynore than the building of buildings are.

They are as much the designers of how porn is produced and monitized as spanish toilet cleaners (california) or african mushroom pickers (netherlands) are in designing their work situation. They may choose to participate and they may make the choice to do so over other choices, but that doesn't mean they're not exploited (and not unfrequently: laws are broken).

Of course in some sense, every job is a form of exploitation and the barrier between exploitation and mutual benefit isn't a simple problem to resolve, much like the 3rd world factory workers that choose their grueling hours and government stepping in to require minimum wage or maximum hours, might mean those jobs being shipped to another 3rd world country.

----

When I got interested in studying the sexual revolution, I also studied the beginning of playboy, as Hefner was very much inspired by Kinsey's (fraudulent) research. In doing so, I came across someone who claimed that all porn is gay by definition. I had to laugh really hard that.

Porn is gay
So it was funny to read this quote too. I'm sure this one was meant more in jest. But why would someone seriously argue that all porn is gay?

Part of it was religiously rooted; like homosexuality, it is a sterile form of sexual expression.

And part of it was in regards to production. It is very rare for women to produce porn without men at the helm. I've known female pornographers, but they only made lesbian porn and were rather unsuccesful to boot (but winning awards of course).

The platforms like onlyfans, chaturbate, liveyasmin or whatever, are built by men. They're marketed to get women to use them by men. But of course that is where the argument breaks down, because sex itself does not become homosexual because of the sex of the person who built or runs the hotel that the sex happens in.

But I was still surprised how the argument almost held up. How much pimping goes on in the pornography industry if you pop open the hood. How young women are very much 99% unaware of the price they're paying when they get in (destruction of their future romantic chances for one, and how sordid and destructive to self image it is for another).

And that isn't even touching on the fact that since younger looking porn actresses are more valuable and the age limit is 18, there is a whole apparatus at reaching girls before they're 18.

And that isn't even touching on all those that do perform when they're underage. I mean playboy sued the woman who claimed they used underage girls in their magazines and they lost the court case since she was able to produce hundreds of examples in their magazine's history.

All this talk of no force, no coercion. I'm sure these underage girls all did it with full informed consent and it has not harmed them in any way.
 
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HarryTrueman

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They may choose to participate and they may make the choice to do so over other choices, but that doesn't mean they're not exploited (and not unfrequently: laws are broken).
Every type of job can provoke an exploitation, porn making is not any different just because more women suffer from it. People just need to stop being such gynocentrists if they truly want to live in an equal society.
 
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Lemmingwise

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Every type of job can provoke an exploitation, porn is not any different just because more women suffer from it. People just need to stop being such gynocentrists if they really want an equal society.
I agree with any type of job being possible to have exploitation, but do you really believe exploitation among, say, plumbers is comparable to porn stars? Have you talked with a couple of people in both? Do you have some sort of idea of the challenges that people face in each?
 
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HarryTrueman

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but do you really believe exploitation among, say, plumbers is comparable to porn stars?
No, but I do believe that the exploitation of the miners, factory workers and many other men, who earn significantly less money than porn actresses, is as bad, if not any worse. That analogy won't work because I can throw away a thousand of examples just like you.
 
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Lemmingwise

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No, but I do believe that the exploitation of the miners, factory workers and many others men, who earn significantly less money than porn actresses, is as bad, if not any worse. That analogy won't work because I can throw away a thousand of examples just like you.
You're swaying me. Can you elaborate?
 
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