The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[mrolonzo]

This thread in the latter half has been subject to G10spana's trickery. Having been firmly rebutted by the men and women of codoh who really study and write about the holocaust he tries this holocaust garbage on the unsuspecting denizens of kiwi farms because he is aware they will know a little bit about the debate, and love to spout off their ignorant mouths, but not the full scope of it and thus be sucked in to the pathetic scholarship of his allies at the holocaust controversies blog, the only people to ever try to take on revisionists. I note he even tried the Belzec routine without ever going into detail about the actual history and findings about Belzec. Pointer: any budding holocaust scholar must examine all the aspects of each camp in detail. Belzec is a fine place to start.

 

[Chugger]

Any questions I'll try to field, otherwise go to codoh and get the clear impartial true research.

" The SS spent the equivalent of trillions in defeating typhus at the camp"

Trillions of what? Pebbles? Crypto?

lol, you are not making CODOH look good

 

[mrolonzo]

Reichmarks or dollars today if you find such numbers too steep then I take it you're aware of the SS fight against typhus and suggest you look deeper into it and we can discuss the measures they did take and the effort and care of SS men in doing their duty to look after the Jews in their charge.
I take it you're fully abreast of revisionism now or are you still in the early stages?
At any rate if you don't like that you can go back to codoh for more precise answers.
What I don't get about committed exterminationists like you is, if this is your declared interest, why not instead of parading your nonsense here, just talk to Germar Rudolf directly? He's a family man living in the USA and he'll talk to you quite easily. You Sir, could make an awful lot of money writing a credible work addressing revisionists and making nuanced conclusions. Today's exterminationist authors make tremendous amounts selling turgid and poorly argued accounts that you could easily surpass by simply bringing the facts and arguments that Mattogno et al bring into the light. Expecting the usual smarmy reply I wait in hope for a better one.

 

[Chugger]

Reichmarks or dollars today

They spent the equivalent of trillions of 2022 dollars (reichmark no longer exists) to save the lives of Jewish workers? Because they cared about these Jews on a personal level?

 

[mrolonzo]

One should really be more curious about the scope of a debate before commenting Chugger instead of relying on those clowns and foul bloggers who take the desperate position you do.

 

[mrolonzo]

They spent the equivalent of trillions of 2022 dollars (reichmark no longer exists) to save the lives of Jewish workers? Because they cared about these Jews on a personal level?

Indeed. In fact documents of the SS state that not a finger is to ever be laid on a jew, and where for example, a jew is unwilling to work, rather than say, torture or beatings etc, the remedy is that the jew is to be exhorted to work. This policy is corroborated with the various other facilities and personnel policies of the camps that current research is aware of as well as the long noted German national character of civilised conduct.

 

[Chugger]

Indeed. In fact documents of the SS state that not a finger is to ever be laid on a jew, and where for example, a jew is unwilling to work, rather than say, torture or beatings etc, the remedy is that the jew is to be exhorted to work. This policy is corroborated with the various other facilities and personnel policies of the camps that current research is aware of as well as the long noted German national character of civilised conduct.

Hmm in my opinion the "documents of the SS" do not corroborate your theory of German beneficence. Eg this ruling: "The accused shall not be punished..."

google.com/books/edition/Masters_of_Death/SAQ94hR-YxQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq="the%20accused%20shall%20not%20be%20punished"%22&pg=PA186&printsec=frontcover

I also don't believe that the Germans spent trillions of 2022 dollars saving prisoners from Typhus, this is unreasonable for many reasons, like the GDP of Nazi Germany was probably less than this amount

But we can agree to disagree on these points. If you're looking for a debate I suggest you visit https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33312 where you can talk to Professor Nick Terry, who is much more knowledgeable than me on the subject and may a better match for you

 

[mrolonzo]

Hmm in my opinion the "documents of the SS" do not corroborate your theory of German beneficence. Eg this ruling: "The accused shall not be punished..."

google.com/books/edition/Masters_of_Death/SAQ94hR-YxQC?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq="the%20accused%20shall%20not%20be%20punished"%22&pg=PA186&printsec=frontcover

I also don't believe that the Germans spent trillions of 2022 dollars saving prisoners from Typhus, this is unreasonable for many reasons, like the GDP of Nazi Germany was probably less than this amount View attachment 3284652

But we can agree to disagree on these points. If you're looking for a debate I suggest you visit https://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33312 where you can talk to Professor Nick Terry, who is much more knowledgeable than me on the subject and may a better match for you

If you have a problem with my description of actual SS policy I suggest you read Mattogno on the healthcare system, and stop saying things like "in my opinion". No one needs to respect your opinion, you've got one thing going for you, that you actually tried, if briefly and deceitfully, to take on revisionists at codoh. That's it.

Please don't foist ridiculous and turgid exterminationist authors on me or anyone else. The EG was dealt with in far greater detail by Mattogno and Graf.

Trillions in today's terms is what I meant. Either way, even if it was less, they spent alot of money on saving Jewish lives which, again, destroys this stupid anti nazi conspiracy theory.

Chugger, everyone associated with codoh and rodoh is more knowledgeable than you. Nick Terry is the same clown who wrote with his silly friends Sergey Romanov et al a plagiarized poorly argued, foul tempered and expletive filled cut and paste job trying to take on revisionists. It was duly trounced in a enormous tomb of a response which they've recently re- issued to make it more readable.

Nick Terry isn't competition for us. He's a shoddy academic without the wit to take on the most supposedly open goal in modern historical research or follow proper rules of debate so hides in his clown forum and refuses to publish actual creditable works.

 

[Shmuel "Sam" Coinsniffer]

I have to share my favorite holocaust story: "Nazi Soldiers Use Jewish Infants for Footballs, Jewish Red Army Man Relates"

 

[mrolonzo]

I have to share my favorite holocaust story: "Nazi Soldiers Use Jewish Infants for Footballs, Jewish Red Army Man Relates"

Atrocity propaganda is how the world operates. Gas light enough people you can get them to do anything to other people. See the anti Russian daily propaganda.

 

[Chugger]

Nick Terry isn't competition for us.

I know very little compared to Terry. He's read thousands of books in English and German and has extensive archival experience. But he's a joke to you, so what chance do I have in this debate?

Trillions in today's terms is what I meant

Incredible they spent so much fighting Typhus (eg current GDP of Russia is 1.4 trillion). Thanks for the factoid.

 

[mrolonzo]

I know very little compared to Terry. He's read thousands of books in English and German and has extensive archival experience. But he's a joke to you, so what chance do I have in this debate?

Dude. Mattogno literally speaks five languages and researches the holocaust personally in each language. Similarly for Rudolf. Get back to me when this 'academic' actually contributes to the debate with an authoritative work. It's not going to happen.

Incredible they spent so much fighting Typhus (eg current GDP of Russia is 1.4 trillion). Thanks for the factoid.

Germany now and then isn't Russia. Go read the lengths they went to in detail in the book I mentioned and stop bothering me with this ignorant smug attitude.

The Nazis literally were not allowed to harm Jews. Remember the easy killings seen in Schindler's list? The ones that got you so mad at the time
Chugger?

Literally not allowed.

Im sorry that makes you angry but history is not what it has been sold as. Jews in Israel and perhaps in your family are as much a victim of this propaganda as anyone.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Im sorry that makes you angry but history is not what it has been sold as. Jews in Israel and perhaps in your family are as much a victim of this propaganda as anyone.

Considering all the wealth that has been shoveled at holocaust survivors, and even such things as the "jewish mineral claims against germany", I wouldn't say they are as much victim as anyone else. To some degree Israel and alleged holocaust survivors are beneficiary's of the propaganda aspects.

They are victims in so far as that they end up fearing their gentile neighbors, because it's sold as a sudden anti-jewish movement, for no reason whatsoever besides wanting a scapegoat. It's a way to terrorize each other into homogeneity and close ties, because everyone else (especially germans) is some kind of dangerously deranged. I don't know what price I would put on being misinformed in this way, but maybe I'd accept for the decades of monthly cheques.

I mean, in 2020, Germany shelled out another $662 million for holocaust survivors and has been doing these kind of yearly payments since 1950.

 

[mrolonzo]

Considering all the wealth that has been shoveled at holocaust survivors, and even such things as the "jewish mineral claims against germany", I wouldn't say they are as much victim as anyone else. To some degree Israel and alleged holocaust survivors are beneficiary's of the propaganda aspects.

They are victims in so far as that they end up fearing their gentile neighbors, because it's sold as a sudden anti-jewish movement, for no reason whatsoever besides wanting a scapegoat. It's a way to terrorize each other into homogeneity and close ties, because everyone else (especially germans) is some kind of dangerously deranged. I don't know what price I would put on being misinformed in this way, but maybe I'd accept for the decades of monthly cheques.

I mean, in 2020, Germany shelled out another $662 million for holocaust survivors and has been doing these kind of yearly payments since 1950.

Granted but that doesn't make Israelis millionaires. But it does make them pursue land, war, then all associated evils of continual oppression and retaliation. Memorably for me, the recent riots in places like Lydd and Ramala where the Israeli police women and even men were so visibly frightened in their faces when they realised that people didn't have to just take their shit all the time. It's the lies that beget ostensibly good people to live in evil then have to face consequences that troubles me most.

 

[Chugger]

Germany now and then isn't Russia. Go read the lengths they went to in detail in the book I mentioned and stop bothering me with this ignorant smug attitude.

Why ignorant and smug? You've repeatedly affirmed they spent trillions of 2022 dollars or near to that trying to solve their typhus problem (which still ended up killing hundreds of thousands). You can see in the graph I posted above that German + Austrian GDP maxed out at less than 500 billion in 1990 dollars. In today's dollars that is around 1 trillion. So it would seem that around 1942 the entire Nazi economy must have switched from military related production to fighting Typhus. This seems hard to believe, but your knowledge and competence is far beyond mine, so I must defer to you here.

 

[Lemmingwise]

Lydd and Ramala where the Israeli police women and even men were so visibly frightened in their faces when they realised that people didn't have to just take their shit all the time

Didn't follow that at all. Any videos?

 

[mrolonzo]

Why ignorant and smug? You've repeatedly affirmed they spent trillions of 2022 dollars or near to that trying to solve their typhus problem (which still ended up killing hundreds of thousands). You can see in the graph I posted above that German + Austrian GDP maxed out at less than 500 billion in 1990 dollars. In today's dollars that is around 1 trillion. So it would seem that around 1942 the entire Nazi economy must have switched from military related production to fighting Typhus. This seems hard to believe, but your knowledge and competence is far beyond mine, so I must defer to you here.

Ok. Fair enough. Let's drastically reduce the amount they spent against typhus to roughly a few million RM, which is reasonable given the war and the other spending on the camp facilities.
With all that, let's agree that the general thrust of the original point stands and that you yourself don't disagree.

 

[mrolonzo]

Didn't follow that at all. Any videos?

Look up riots in Israeli towns during last Gaza / Israel exchange of rockets.

 

[Chugger]

Ok. Fair enough. Let's drastically reduce the amount they spent against typhus to roughly a few million RM, which is reasonable given the war and the other spending on the camp facilities.

Wait, you repeatedly gave a number 100,000 times higher. I could understand a 3-5x overestimate, but 100,000x?

 

[Lemmingwise]

I could understand a 3-5x overestimate

I feel exactly the same way.

Also about the death count.