The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

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Mark Antony

Race-mixing baby raper eating rich man's carcass👑
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Bruh there are no facts if I ignore them bruh. Bruh no Hitler signatures bruh - no Wannsee no Goering no operation Reinhard no nothing bruh. Bruh look at my counter-papers bruh. Bruh look at the German straw-man bruh; surely you mean all Germans were Nazis bruh. Bruh Anne Dank Franke bruh. Bruh ignore my schizo-posting bruh.
Typical virgin denier.
 

soy_king

Joshua Connor Moon: Born to the Broom
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Please show us the census data. End this debate. Go ahead.
You say that like it's impossible to find. Very well, I spent several hours figuring this shit out, so here you go:

Poland= 1931 Census= 3.1 Million Jews (source= Mały Rocznik Statystyczny 1939, Warszawa 1939, p. 24)
Poland= December 1946 Registration of Jews by Jewish Communities (highest number)= 222,967 (source= LUDNOŚĆ POLSKI W XX WIEKU, p. 297)

USSR= 1939 Census Data= 3.028 Million (source= https://www.prlib.ru/item/328812, p. 57)
USSR= 1959 Census Data= 2.268 Million (source= Fresh Light on the Soviet Population: Results of the 1959 Census, The World Today , May, 1960, Vol. 16, No. 5 (May, 1960), pp. 194-203, 202)

Hungary= 1930 Hungarian Census= 444, 567 (source= Az 1930. évi népszámlálás. 1. r. Demográfiai adatok községek és külterületi lakotthelyek szerint– Magyar Királyi Központi Statisztikai Hivatal (közread.), Kovács Alajos (előszó), Mozolovszky Sándor (bev.) – Magyar statisztikai közlemények. Ú. S. 83. köt. – Budapest, 1932. – XXII, 32, 429 p, Table 14)
Hungary= 1949 Hungarian Census= 137, 545 Jews (source= International Population Statistics Reports: The Population of Hungary (as of Jan. 1, 1958), p. 77)

Romania= 1930 Census= 451,892 (EDIT= The number of Romanian Jews pre-war is subject to some high variability. The 1941 Census conducted by the Antonescu regime states that the number of Jews counted under the 1930 Census was 728,115. Source= Recensamatul din 1941, Bucuresti, 1941, p. 101)
Romania= 1956 Census= 146,264 (source= Population figures in Romania from 1930-2002, https://insse.ro/cms/files/RPL2002INS/vol4/tabele/t1.pdf)

Germany= Jewish population in 1939= approx. 222,000 (down from over 500,000 in 1933) (source= E. Rosenthal, Trends of the Jewish Population in Germany, 1910-39, Jewish Social Studies , Jul., 1944, Vol. 6, No. 3 (Jul., 1944), pp. 233-274, 236)
Germany= Est. 34,000 Jewish Population, c. 1950= (source= Jewish Telegraphic Agency Daily Bulletin, May 16, 1952, http://pdfs.jta.org/1952/1952-05-16_096.pdf)

This isn't even including the censuses for Czechoslovakia, the Netherlands, Belgium, Lithuania, Yugoslavia, Latvia, Austria, Greece, etc., but you get the point. Now, this is going to take a leap of faith for some of you to just trust numbers, but I am going to juxtapose this with Official Israeli Immigration Records, which include countries of origin. Now, looking solely to the countries I just mentioned, we have the following figures from 1948-1960: (https://www.cbs.gov.il/he/publications/doclib/2018/4. shnatonimmigration/st04_04.pdf)
Poland= (EDIT= 146,032)
USSR= 21,906
Hungary= 24,143
Romania= 150,412
Germany= 9,596
Adding the approximately 70,000 Jews who attempted to enter Israel between 1945-1948 plus the 65,000 who took advantage of the British quotas to enter Mandatory Palestine (Arieh J. Kochavi, The Struggle against Jewish Immigration to Palestine, Middle Eastern Studies , Jul., 1998, Vol. 34, No. 3 (Jul., 1998), pp. 146-167), you get a total of 491,469 Jews who made it to Israel from Continental Europe from about 1940-1960.

Now, subtracting those changes in population from those selected countries alone and subtracting that 491,469 number I gave you earlier, you get a loss of 4,435,683 lives. This is still just an approximation because it doesn't take into account natural growth after the censuses were taken but before the war, and births post-war, so the numbers are probably even higher. The loss of six million lives is entirely possible, even if you autists choose not to believe it.

I didn't post any of the pdfs because these documents total thousands of pages, but if anyone's interested in actually seeing the sources I used, message me. (I'm only giving you the link to the 1939 USSR Census data bc it's impossible to download from their archives, so don't ask).

1. The data is recognized as rotten even by exterminationist authors.

2. Babi Yar? What bodies?

3. People starved or died of typhus at the war's end. Thus the enormous amounts of zyklon b and documents stating the need to fix the situation in prior years, not exacerbate it. Yes.
1. Exterminationist? Is that your term for people who support the orthodox position?

2. Are you suggesting that the Einsatzgruppen never happened, because that's an interesting take? Even where several of the mass graves were destroyed, there's still photographic and video evidence of these executions, and that's not even to say about the camps themselves.

I guess my general question to revisionists is do you actually believe the Nazis had no intention of killing Jews and were generally blameless? Do you then also absolve them of their mass reprisals against non-Jewish civilian populations in the countries they occupied, like the reprisals after the Warsaw Uprising or the extermination of Oradour sur Glane? Do you believe they didn't engage in the mass starvation of Soviet POWs while treating Western POWs under the rules of the Geneva Convention? Do you believe they didn't engage in the mass enslavement of the Slavic peoples, or that they didn't sterilize the mentally disabled? Or is it just that you only think that they were gud bois who dindu nuffin only to the target of the majority of their antipathy and actually did all of those other horrific things I just mentioned?
 
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Chugger

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Very well, I spent several hours figuring this shit out, so here you go:
Get ready for the census conspiracy. Resettled Jews in Russia secretly converted and lived out the rest of their lives as gentiles. Or the pre-war numbers were based on faulty estimates:

I once saw a graph on Rodoh that looked like this (real Jewish population in red)

1653019815495.png


Or most likely, get ready to move on to a different subject
 

soy_king

Joshua Connor Moon: Born to the Broom
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Feb 6, 2018
Get ready for the census conspiracy. Resettled Jews in Russia secretly converted and lived out the rest of their lives as gentiles. Or the pre-war numbers were based on faulty estimates:

I once saw a graph on Rodoh that looked like this (real Jewish population in red)

View attachment 3300432

Or most likely, get ready to move on to a different subject
The sources I used for the Soviet numbers mentioned they were faulty for a variety of reasons, including overcounts, failure to account for incarcerated persons, etc., so I really should've put an asterisk around them. However, those inconsistencies were found across the board and weren't based on oversampling a specific ethnic group.

As to your point about Soviet Jews becoming gentiles, that's almost impossible, because the Soviet system required everyone to have their nationality printed in their state mandated passport, and Jew was and still is considered a nationality rather than an ethnoreligious group. Finally, it still doesn't account for the massive drop in the Polish figures, who account for about half of the Jewish population that died during the War.
 

Chugger

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As to your point about Soviet Jews becoming gentiles, that's almost impossible, because the Soviet system required everyone to have their nationality printed in their state mandated passport
Some deniers claim the millions of Western and Central European Jews they are certain were resettled somewhere in Russia upon liberation changed nationality. The Soviets, eager to bulwark the Holocaust theory, either assisted or directed them to do this, in addition to covering up all traces and documentation of their cozy resettlement by the good natured Germans.
 
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soy_king

Joshua Connor Moon: Born to the Broom
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Some deniers claim the millions of Western and Central European Jews they are certain were resettled somewhere in Russia upon liberation changed nationality. The Soviets, eager to bulwark the Holocaust theory, either assisted or directed them to do this, in addition to covering up all traces and documentation of their cozy resettlement by the good natured Germans.
The Soviets weren't really friendly to Jews, especially once Stalin took over, and the Bolsheviks were to a man self hating, so I don't think that particular theory is especially plausible. shit like the Doctors Plot and Refuseniks were par for the course. Stalin was actually planning to deport the Jews to Siberia right before he died.

The only reason Stalin supported the creation of Israel was because the Zionists of that time were fairly socialist, and the Soviets wanted a counterweight to the Arab monarchies which were all British puppets. as soon as Nasser came to power and the Pan Arab revolutions broke out, however, the Soviets quickly changed sides.
 

mrolonzo

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1. Exterminationist? Is that your term for people who support the orthodox position?

2. Are you suggesting that the Einsatzgruppen never happened, because that's an interesting take? Even where several of the mass graves were destroyed, there's still photographic and video evidence of these executions, and that's not even to say about the camps themselves.

I guess my general question to revisionists is do you actually believe the Nazis had no intention of killing Jews and were generally blameless? Do you then also absolve them of their mass reprisals against non-Jewish civilian populations in the countries they occupied, like the reprisals after the Warsaw Uprising or the extermination of Oradour sur Glane? Do you believe they didn't engage in the mass starvation of Soviet POWs while treating Western POWs under the rules of the Geneva Convention? Do you believe they didn't engage in the mass enslavement of the Slavic peoples, or that they didn't sterilize the mentally disabled? Or is it just that you only think that they were gud bois who dindu nuffin only to the target of the majority of their antipathy and actually did all of those other horrific things I just mentioned?

1. They're called hoaxers or believers, orthodox historians. Exterminationists is the most clear term. Given that 34 of them actually stated that to paraphrase, " it can't be questioned because it happened", they should be called alot worse.

2. The EG holocaust is a cope for the fact that original one was disproved. Basically as the more western holocaust was uncovered by actual hard evidence the allegation moved east. Nowadays the EG actions are the main complaint. Trouble is, EG actions are even less evidenced. Certainly they took part in partisan executions but the record is muddy, and they're only a small group of guys with rifles roaming the country anyway. The holocaust is predicated on the "industrial killing" model, once that's taken away you're left with this. But please show us the holocaust in the east videos - I mean actual executions, not just people saying things.

3. Yes, the nazis had no intention of killing Jews. In fact as I've shown, they were specifically ordered not to and treated them extensively and with state of the art technology.
No, no revisionists deny reprisals happened. But reprisals are just normal warfare crimes all sides commit so you're not getting out of it there.
Mass starvation was not policy, it was accidental to do with logistical issues. Heck if things had went differently they'd have recruited at least half these guys as they liberated eastern Europe.
Mass enslavement of slavs? Come on now, don't be silly.
Sterilization? Certainly, it was the style of the time.
Gud bois? They literally signed up to and followed the Geneva convention on war. It's the germans after all, an honourable and reasonable people.
 

Male Idiot

Das rite!
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It happened but it wasn't as good as juden claim.

Less numbers, inflated for muh 6 gorillion.

But the good guys tried to fo the world a favour. Just not as succesfully as (((they))) claim.

History is written by the victors, and the evil guys won.
 

soy_king

Joshua Connor Moon: Born to the Broom
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1. They're called hoaxers or believers, orthodox historians. Exterminationists is the most clear term. Given that 34 of them actually stated that to paraphrase, " it can't be questioned because it happened", they should be called alot worse.
Sounds like someone is a salty bitch. Now, you asked me for the numbers based on census info, and I gave them to you. Explain why the Jewish casualties are so massively disproportionate to any other civilian casualties in the occupied territories.
2. The EG holocaust is a cope for the fact that original one was disproved. Basically as the more western holocaust was uncovered by actual hard evidence the allegation moved east. Nowadays the EG actions are the main complaint. Trouble is, EG actions are even less evidenced. Certainly they took part in partisan executions but the record is muddy, and they're only a small group of guys with rifles roaming the country anyway. The holocaust is predicated on the "industrial killing" model, once that's taken away you're left with this. But please show us the holocaust in the east videos - I mean actual executions, not just people saying things.
3. Yes, the nazis had no intention of killing Jews. In fact as I've shown, they were specifically ordered not to and treated them extensively and with state of the art technology.
And what evidence do you credibly base that on? if you claim all the evidence used to perpetrate the holocaust was fabricated, then what's stopping the allies from destroying the "actual" evidence and what you're actually relying on isn't real?
No, no revisionists deny reprisals happened. But reprisals are just normal warfare crimes all sides commit so you're not getting out of it there.
Murdering an entire village bc one resistance fighter killed a German officer vs. following the Geneva Convention. Pick one.
Mass starvation was not policy, it was accidental to do with logistical issues. Heck if things had went differently they'd have recruited at least half these guys as they liberated eastern Europe.
And yet us and british airmen captured by the Germans weren't found literally starving to death. Funny how these mass starvation were only happening to people the Nazis hated and considered inferior.
Mass enslavement of slavs? Come on now, don't be silly.
what do you call the mass importation of people hundreds of miles from their homes to live in barracks and work in factories and other undesirable work who were either paid next to nothing or nothing at all?
Sterilization? Certainly, it was the style of the time.
Gud bois? They literally signed up to and followed the Geneva convention on war. It's the germans after all, an honourable and reasonable people.
Oh I see, we're going the dindu approach here. Despite the literal mountains of evidence against them of mistreatment of enemy gentiles alone. Yeah, there's no helping you.

It happened but it wasn't as good as juden claim.

Less numbers, inflated for muh 6 gorillion.

But the good guys tried to fo the world a favour. Just not as succesfully as (((they))) claim.

History is written by the victors, and the evil guys won.
as a Hungarian, didn't they do their job well enough for your country? there are practically no jews left in Hungary. If anything, I'd have thought you'd be mad at them for not sufficiently addressing the gypsy population.
 

Lemmingwise

Hands off my purse
True & Honest Fan
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say something that interests me
It's irrelevant what I "like".
Another example of wanting to have it both ways.

I really have nothing more to say here
Another dodge instead of engage. Even though you'll be posting another 100 pages.

so I wouldn't recommend for anyone to talk to you
Lmao, why would anyone listen to a single issue forum poster for advice on this? I guess it really bothered you when I said that, that you're now trying to also use it.
 
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soy_king

Joshua Connor Moon: Born to the Broom
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Another example of wanting to have it both ways.


Another dodge instead of engage. Even though you'll be posting another 100 pages.


Lmao, why would anyone listen to a single issue forum poster for advice on this? I guess it really bothered you when I said that, that you're now trying to also use it.
I would agree with you on the single forum poster stuff, but hasn't @mrolonzo only posted in this and the Mike Peinovich thread? that's pretty much a single forum poster, considering how related the topics are?
 

Lemmingwise

Hands off my purse
True & Honest Fan
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Feb 2, 2019
I would agree with you on the single forum poster stuff, but hasn't @mrolonzo only posted in this and the Mike Peinovich thread? that's pretty much a single forum poster, considering how related the topics are?
A little too early to tell for someone who has been here for only 1.5 months, but yeah my thoughts would be comparable if he keeps it up.
 
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Spud

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Jan 12, 2022
It happened but it wasn't as good as juden claim.

Less numbers, inflated for muh 6 gorillion.

But the good guys tried to fo the world a favour. Just not as succesfully as (((they))) claim.

History is written by the victors, and the evil guys won.
No the Good guys won, they just hired the evil guys to work as NASA