The Internet and Tribalism - Does Anyone Win?

The_Mormons

Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb Dumb
kiwifarms.net
Tribalism exists in many social groups- political, cultural, class/ caste, etc. The members of these social groups quite often actively seek to recruit and maintain members, and will likewise participate in "influence wars" to attempt to garner more support, strengthen the disposition of their current member base, and/or persuade members of opposing social groups to abandon their tribes altogether. By "influence wars", what I'm referring to is the free exchange of information only for the purpose of strengthening one's own social group or weakening another's. The exchange of information applies to both the media itself, whether real or fake, and the manner/ context in which the media is delivered, whether constructive or destructive. If there's one thing the internet does best, it is facilitating the free exchange of information.

The Internet has so vastly bolstered the speed at which we share information that small social groups have been able to gather large numbers of members, and thus a large amount of influence, in a relatively short period of time. In the pre-internet era (read as: The Boring Times), our society wouldn't have received much influence from social groups in India, the Middle East, or Japan, and those from native (American) social groups that joined any facets of the aforementioned social groups were very unlikely to have the influence expand that social group. The Internet was the solution to this problem, giving Americans wider access to additional social groups like anime and pop culture. As these myriad smaller groups gain more influence, there are members of other social groups that may have a lot in common with members of other social groups, and a campaign to merge the groups may form, which often leads to contention from both groups.

The last sentence is what I'm curious about. But first,

TL;DR: The internet is a huge platform for our social groups. We duke it out on the internet with strangers that don't belong to our social group, and sometimes persuade them to join our group instead. Sometimes we attempt to blur the lines between groups to confuse plebs.

Where do you see tribalism controlling the discourse the most? How do you see tribalism affecting the future of our social groups via the internet? Do you think the internet will be negatively or positively affected by tribalism?

I'm just wondering if there's any meaning to all the fighting and what the endgame is.
 

Dolce & Gabbana

kiwifarms.net
To a certain extent I think it's natural and even essential to gather people of like mind together, particularly when there's an incentive to grant a platform to a perspective that is typically suppressed, but the problems seem to really start sparking when people from one demographic are incredibly similar to those in another and disagree on what that means to them on a fundamental level, like you see in the mogai type sexuality-and-gender shit running up against old fashioned gays and lesbians.

Whatever the case, it's clear here that tribalism isn't just a function of people disagreeing when they're coming from radically different perspectives, but seems more like it's specifically a problem when two people from different perspectives want to use the same thing or exist in the same zone. As far as I can tell, the only real solution to this kind of thing is teaching people to attach less importance to splitting-hairs type bullshit and instead trying to break it down to the common ground, do we see eye to eye enough to let each other live or do we absolutely fucking hate this so much we need to pull back from it.

The one advantage of the internet is its limitless space, here. It's not like you're shoved in with a neighbor you hate in close quarters, at least not to the same extent as you are in real life. The only barrier between any given individual and their ability to create an environment where they can do whatever they want is their tenacity. Are they charismatic enough to draw in other people who agree with them, are they thick-skinned enough to draw a line in the sand and defend it. In the end, most of these arguments feel like a big deal at the time but are so thoroughly meaningless that there doesn't seem to be a consensus that can really be reached from direct engagement, so why not let people hunker down in their own little nature reserves on the internet, especially when passers-by can look and think about them all they want.

TL;DR let tribalism sequester itself off into gradually more specialized niches and if there's anything to be gained in understanding this it can be done by people who are more level-headed, analyzing from a distance
 

Eltotsira

kiwifarms.net
I was just thinking about this, given the events in New Zealand yesterday. Highly appropriate conversation to be having.

I've been lurking in Alt Right internet circles for years(usually not on the chans), and I see the perfect example of this. People's prejudices and judgments and will to power turns them into psychotic robots with no heart, with only the goal of "winning" for your team by making the other team(anyone but your team) "lose". I'm sure this exists in every other radical political movement and even non political tribalist corners, but I'm just speaking from what I'm familiar with.

The speed at which we share info and form communities with ultra like minded individuals makes it easier for a thousand inside jokes to form immediately, and that turns into post irony and shit posting against every other out group. It creates toxicity, virtue signalling, purity spirals, and sperg outs. Not healthy for anyone to be involved in for long, regardless of the ideology or tribe's significance.

Thanks OP for posting this.
 
I was just thinking about this, given the events in New Zealand yesterday. Highly appropriate conversation to be having.

I've been lurking in Alt Right internet circles for years(usually not on the chans), and I see the perfect example of this. People's prejudices and judgments and will to power turns them into psychotic robots with no heart, with only the goal of "winning" for your team by making the other team(anyone but your team) "lose". I'm sure this exists in every other radical political movement and even non political tribalist corners, but I'm just speaking from what I'm familiar with.

The speed at which we share info and form communities with ultra like minded individuals makes it easier for a thousand inside jokes to form immediately, and that turns into post irony and shit posting against every other out group. It creates toxicity, virtue signalling, purity spirals, and sperg outs. Not healthy for anyone to be involved in for long, regardless of the ideology or tribe's significance.

Thanks OP for posting this.
I am also a fellow kiwi but am concerned about the role of such things as kiwi farms and various chans, and other alt-right places. Thus I propose we and all other internet "alt-righters" like ourselves immediately get off the internet.

Love
A dude who created this account 40 minutes ago and definitely isn't concern trolling.
 

Eltotsira

kiwifarms.net
I am also a fellow kiwi but am concerned about the role of such things as kiwi farms and various chans, and other alt-right places. Thus I propose we and all other internet "alt-righters" like ourselves immediately get off the internet.

Love
A dude who created this account 40 minutes ago and definitely isn't concern trolling.
LOL talk about reading too much into something, wow.
 
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Reactions: Tard Baby

Stockholmie

Trapped and lovin' it
kiwifarms.net
Tribalism is just another way we compartmentalize ourselves and the people around us, aiding us in assessing risks and forming social bonds. Humans are lazy, and it's much easier to judge people by what we deem important, even if the other person or group has only passing opinions on the subject. We see polarizing an opposing group as confirmation of our own ideals, and it's just going to continue until something more important to our monkey brains distracts us from our organizing.
Tribalism isn't inherently bad, but it will never really be a positive concept. Both thoughts hinging on that it's unrealistic to believe that a substantial amount of people will have the foresight to see the way they shape their niches in society.
 

Hikikomori-Yume

kiwifarms.net
There is definitely a psychological war going on right now, you could refer to it as WWIII.
You have the jews and their satanic golems fighting with the force of a thousand suns at every single moment since around the year 2013 to tear down the fabric of western civilization and lead it towards its destruction.
I predicted this all when I was very young, I observed the micro-aggressions, the tension between shota and loli.
I knew that eventually all that bottled up angst that those bitches I came across around the ages of 6 to 10 would eventually grow to be bitter and angry towards what their perceived as their aggressor, the huwhite male.
Fast forward 20 years into the future and you have a civil war between these mentally warped individuals who now serve as the ammunition for the jewish menace.
On earth alone there are hundreds of millions of social groups and they are all constantly at war with one and another.
Humanity is an algorithm, we are following a very specific evolutionary path and what you are observing right now is the rendering process.
Reality is a computational process.
Even when you aren't battling the jew, a secret society, some anon with opposing viewpoints or a woman you are being assaulted nonstop by reality colliding with itself falling into place like a rubiks cube.
I try my best to repel and block any outside influence but it is very difficult, I think there is even a sentient A.I. that has been trying to control my mind for a few years, but even with all that against me I remain strong and focused.
 

Itu aru kamusu tugeza

Ohmori-san? Do it.
kiwifarms.net
To a certain extent I think it's natural and even essential to gather people of like mind together, particularly when there's an incentive to grant a platform to a perspective that is typically suppressed, but the problems seem to really start sparking when people from one demographic are incredibly similar to those in another and disagree on what that means to them on a fundamental level, like you see in the mogai type sexuality-and-gender shit running up against old fashioned gays and lesbians.

Whatever the case, it's clear here that tribalism isn't just a function of people disagreeing when they're coming from radically different perspectives, but seems more like it's specifically a problem when two people from different perspectives want to use the same thing or exist in the same zone. As far as I can tell, the only real solution to this kind of thing is teaching people to attach less importance to splitting-hairs type bullshit and instead trying to break it down to the common ground, do we see eye to eye enough to let each other live or do we absolutely fucking hate this so much we need to pull back from it.

The one advantage of the internet is its limitless space, here. It's not like you're shoved in with a neighbor you hate in close quarters, at least not to the same extent as you are in real life. The only barrier between any given individual and their ability to create an environment where they can do whatever they want is their tenacity. Are they charismatic enough to draw in other people who agree with them, are they thick-skinned enough to draw a line in the sand and defend it. In the end, most of these arguments feel like a big deal at the time but are so thoroughly meaningless that there doesn't seem to be a consensus that can really be reached from direct engagement, so why not let people hunker down in their own little nature reserves on the internet, especially when passers-by can look and think about them all they want.

TL;DR let tribalism sequester itself off into gradually more specialized niches and if there's anything to be gained in understanding this it can be done by people who are more level-headed, analyzing from a distance
Reality is the baseline, not the Internet. You're bound to go outside eventually, and you're guaranteed to interact with people there. The problem is that the Internet and the real world are culturally growing indistinguishable, and that people are eventually going to have to keep up their masks out of necessity.

tl;dr get the fuck off the internet, it's rotting your brain and shit
 

Piss

kiwifarms.net
I've been lurking in Alt Right internet circles for years(usually not on the chans), and I see the perfect example of this. People's prejudices and judgments and will to power turns them into psychotic robots with no heart, with only the goal of "winning" for your team by making the other team(anyone but your team) "lose". I'm sure this exists in every other radical political movement and even non political tribalist corners, but I'm just speaking from what I'm familiar with.

The speed at which we share info and form communities with ultra like minded individuals makes it easier for a thousand inside jokes to form immediately, and that turns into post irony and shit posting against every other out group. It creates toxicity, virtue signalling, purity spirals, and sperg outs. Not healthy for anyone to be involved in for long, regardless of the ideology or tribe's significance.
That's pretty much Reddit in a nutshell, and Reddit is hard left everywhere except for explicitly right-leaning subs. Their impersonal, anonymous voting system really encourages that kind of behavior.
 

RockVolnutt

kiwifarms.net
I just like how some people think the formation of an one world government is an inevitable, if not necessary, development and point towards the internet as proof. The net is full of different "tribes" going at it if people bother seeing people outside their small circle of friends.
 

turn_coat

kiwifarms.net
The guy with the gun will win. Whichever tribe has the least compunctions about shooting their way to victory, will win. Buy ammunition.
 

ICametoLurk

SCREW YOUR OPTICS, I'M GOING IN
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The more I look at the World the more our whole timeline starts to strike me as 1984 turned on its head. Instead of exercising totalitarian control over the flow of information in order to assert an absolute, unquestionable "truth", the information network is simply over saturated with conflicting narratives to the point the notion of "truth" becomes a triviality. There's no reason to control your thoughts, because what you think simply doesn't matter. In a way it's even more demoralizing.
 
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