The Last of Us: Part 2 - This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment

Irrational Exuberance

SPEND! SPEND! SPEND!
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Gee I wonder why that guy got asked that specific question in the first place...
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"At the moment before its demise, your horse is instantaneously replaced with two actors in a horse costume. Or, it's a robot horse. Or, the horse has terminal cancer and gave full consent to die onscreen so its horse family would receive the insurance payout. Or it's a fictional horse in a video game and no actual horsies are being harmed, you spazzes."
 

elzaw

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Jesus Christ it's a fucking video game. Can't believe people are whining about a game they never even played. Also the game leaves it to the player to symphathize with Chloe or not. You can save her or let her die. She is a troubled person and she is way more than just "tumblr". The game shows how her fathers death impacted her. She was normal before this.

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"Hurr durr look a chick with blue hair!1 Tumblr!1" Not everything is black & white.
While I agree you don't have to sympathize with Chloe, she's still an antagonistic force in this game because giving in to her wishes and agreeing with her will lead to more devastating consequences like getting a suicidal girl killed (I mean the whole murdery mystery drama takes a back seat because the real conflict is between Chloe and Max). But then again it all comes down to how you choose to play as Max: is she a shy socially awkward loner who has to come out of her shell and learn to take care about other people, or is she a self-centered introvert whose only world is Chloe?
The reason the game is so hated is because how tumblr decided saving Chloe is the good ending only because it's "win for the gayz" and all. I do think it's overrated and the writing is hipster but it's nowhere near as SJW as people claim it to be. At least unlike TLOU it actually allows you to construct your own narrative and have your own opinions on the characters. But the ending choices are still pretty bad and black and white, lol.

Also dude where you get this pic, it's horrifying
 

QuokkaCaptain

The happiest of all the marsupials
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While I agree you don't have to sympathize with Chloe, she's still an antagonistic force in this game because giving in to her wishes and agreeing with her will lead to more devastating consequences like getting a suicidal girl killed (I mean the whole murdery mystery drama takes a back seat because the real conflict is between Chloe and Max). But then again it all comes down to how you choose to play as Max: is she a shy socially awkward loner who has to come out of her shell and learn to take care about other people, or is she a self-centered introvert whose only world is Chloe?
The reason the game is so hated is because how tumblr decided saving Chloe is the good ending only because it's "win for the gayz" and all. I do think it's overrated and the writing is hipster but it's nowhere near as SJW as people claim it to be. At least unlike TLOU it actually allows you to construct your own narrative and have your own opinions on the characters. But the ending choices are still pretty bad and black and white, lol.

Also dude where you get this pic, it's horrifying
Agreed. I actually like Max and a few of the other characters, and the game itself not nearly as SJW as people think it is- if the game lacked Chloe, I'd argue that most would dismiss it as a vaguely annoying hipster game. The problem is primarily the fandom and the devs pushing the LGBT shit- there's really not much of any of that in the actual game, aside from some low-key feminist stuff. I'd argue the actual game's biggest flaw is how much the story drags at times, some of the writing choices and, like you said, the actual murder-mystery subplot gets pushed to the side in favor of Max's shit with Chloe.

(Also, I think the photo is a blown-up version of one in the game of Chloe & her dad- not sure if Life is Strange or Before the Storm)

Back to Last of Us, I genuinely did not realize that they had re-announced the release date. June 19th seems like a really close date given that it was- what- only a month or two ago when they said that the game was delayed "indefinitely"?

Still, I'm not complaining. I'm genuinely looking forward to the fallout from this game and how the devs deal with it. I have the greatest feeling that if the game is as bad as everyone suspects it is that Druckman and NaughtyDog are just gonna double-down and go into total defense mode; I mean fuck, they already are. Great lols will be had.
 

elzaw

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Agreed. I actually like Max and a few of the other characters, and the game itself not nearly as SJW as people think it is- if the game lacked Chloe, I'd argue that most would dismiss it as a vaguely annoying hipster game. The problem is primarily the fandom and the devs pushing the LGBT shit- there's really not much of any of that in the actual game, aside from some low-key feminist stuff. I'd argue the actual game's biggest flaw is how much the story drags at times, some of the writing choices and, like you said, the actual murder-mystery subplot gets pushed to the side in favor of Max's shit with Chloe.

(Also, I think the photo is a blown-up version of one in the game of Chloe & her dad- not sure if Life is Strange or Before the Storm)

Back to Last of Us, I genuinely did not realize that they had re-announced the release date. June 19th seems like a really close date given that it was- what- only a month or two ago when they said that the game was delayed "indefinitely"?

Still, I'm not complaining. I'm genuinely looking forward to the fallout from this game and how the devs deal with it. I have the greatest feeling that if the game is as bad as everyone suspects it is that Druckman and NaughtyDog are just gonna double-down and go into total defense mode; I mean fuck, they already are. Great lols will be had.
to give dontnod credit, they actually found a way "fix" Chloe. In LiS2 David turns out to be alive and if Chloe survived as well they have a perfectly loving father-daughter relationship. Considering how despised the character was by Chloe fans it's the saltiest thing they could have done.

The funniest thing about TLOU leaks is how they could have avoided all of it by just releasing the game on its original date.
I mean, Death Stranding plot was leaked before the release - the game was a success. FFVII was datamined before the release - still was a success.
But TLOU2 already got screwed by Druckmann's poor management skills and misaimed marketing and Sony's current spoiler-policing just made everybody even more pissed, so delaying the game even further is the worst thing they could have done. Now everybody is mad, even their own fans, and I can hardly wait how this shitstorm is gonna escalate, lol
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
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The funniest thing about TLOU leaks is how they could have avoided all of it by just releasing the game on its original date.
I mean, Death Stranding plot was leaked before the release - the game was a success. FFVII was datamined before the release - still was a success.
But TLOU2 already got screwed by Druckmann's poor management skills and misaimed marketing and Sony's current spoiler-policing just made everybody even more pissed, so delaying the game even further is the worst thing they could have done. Now everybody is mad, even their own fans, and I can hardly wait how this shitstorm is gonna escalate, lol
I think the big thing to note about both the devs involved (namely Kojima Studios and Square Enix) is they didn't take massive, steaming dumps on what gaming, gamers etc are or should be.

Square Enix worked hard and relatively quietly on the remake, and give you a decent game out of it.

Kojima managed to get A listers on side who liked him, and to create a strange world and story that had rattled around in his head about the issues of social isolation, unlike the MGS games it beats you over the head with his word salads and philosophy and, weirdly, does a good job at it. If you drill down into it, it's likely a game born out of Kojima's increasing isolation and frustration as he was increasingly sidelined and eventually pushed out of his familiar home of Konami.

Now we're being told he's busy binge watching horror to create the most terrifying horror game "ever" and considering how disturbing P.T was as a taster for the now canned Silent Hills...

What do we get from Naughty Dog and Druckmann? "We don't use fun" and a man clearly busy dumping this project out the door so he can go boasting about his exec producer role in the HBO series in the works just like the GoT writers.
 

Keystone

True & Honest Fan
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I think the big thing to note about both the devs involved (namely Kojima Studios and Square Enix) is they didn't take massive, steaming dumps on what gaming, gamers etc are or should be.

Square Enix worked hard and relatively quietly on the remake, and give you a decent game out of it.

Kojima managed to get A listers on side who liked him, and to create a strange world and story that had rattled around in his head about the issues of social isolation, unlike the MGS games it beats you over the head with his word salads and philosophy and, weirdly, does a good job at it. If you drill down into it, it's likely a game born out of Kojima's increasing isolation and frustration as he was increasingly sidelined and eventually pushed out of his familiar home of Konami.

Now we're being told he's busy binge watching horror to create the most terrifying horror game "ever" and considering how disturbing P.T was as a taster for the now canned Silent Hills...

What do we get from Naughty Dog and Druckmann? "We don't use fun" and a man clearly busy dumping this project out the door so he can go boasting about his exec producer role in the HBO series in the works just like the GoT writers.
Square and Kojima also didn't completely block replies to tweets like Sony did with their latest TLoU 2 advert. Guarantee you that greasy bitch Druckmann is going to be doing that going forward.
 

TexOffender

Whatever happens, happens
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DumbDude42

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The reason the game is so hated is because how tumblr decided saving Chloe is the good ending only because it's "win for the gayz" and all. I do think it's overrated and the writing is hipster but it's nowhere near as SJW as people claim it to be.
it's hated because it's just teen girl drama and has a general whiny 'woe is me' tone to it.
the time powers and crime stuff is just tacked on to give it some semblance of being serious business, but at its core it's all about some bratty kids' feelings and emotions and gay emo shit like that.
 

Sailor Mars

your average weeb
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ND endorsing the shipping of two characters who are not canonically in a relationship
vs ND copyright striking memes making fun of a character

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While okay, not exactly the same thin Pg, but I still believe this is a double standard of how they interact with their community.
Seeing this tweet and how Cuckmann treats Ellie and her gf in the sequel, I get a feeling that Cuckmann fetishizes lesbians (and seeing lesbians get the shit beat out of them).
 

QuokkaCaptain

The happiest of all the marsupials
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Now we're being told he's busy binge watching horror to create the most terrifying horror game "ever" and considering how disturbing P.T was as a taster for the now canned Silent Hills...
Ooh. Quokka like.

But no, you're totally right, there's definitely a difference in approach here. IDK how long Druckman's been in the video game business (NaughtyDog did Uncharted, right? So it has to have been around for a while), but I don't think it's a coincidence that SquareEnix and Kojima have been at this business for a while and know their userbase.
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
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Ooh. Quokka like.

But no, you're totally right, there's definitely a difference in approach here. IDK how long Druckman's been in the video game business (NaughtyDog did Uncharted, right? So it has to have been around for a while), but I don't think it's a coincidence that SquareEnix and Kojima have been at this business for a while and know their userbase.
Druckmann could be considered an industry veteran of sorts, he's been in the business since 2004.

Nomura and Kojima though are both much older, Nomura being the early 90s and Kojima the 80s.

The difference is simple attitude. Japanese media knows you need to land the whales to make a profit, you want the people who always buy the special edition and that loyalty is both considered two way and often repaid by Jap Media companies, with either nods or neat stuff thrown into the bundles to justify their price tags and make a decent slice.

The issue we have with Western Devs is the increasing arrogance due to prevalent media attitudes Art is for Arts sake and not for entertainment and if you complain they have a barrage of excuses reasons why you suck and should just fuck the hell off.

We see the same in a lot of Western Media. The hardcore is being told to repeatedly fuck off and then these companies are all stood about confused as to why their bottom lines are tanking. You can see it repeatedly in the shitty movie remakes, the comics industry, and increasingly gaming. The people involved have no interest in creating new, just rebrand and rehash things with their own fan fiction "fresh new take".

We could easily blame SJWism but I wonder if its because we don't take media consumption as seriously in the West. There's a weird prevalence of ridiculous hubristic arrogance that seems to not exist for a lot of the older school developers. They're always in the right and anyone says they're not is obviously outright evil and not someone to ever be listened to.
 

DumbDude42

kiwifarms.net
Druckmann could be considered an industry veteran of sorts, he's been in the business since 2004.

Nomura and Kojima though are both much older, Nomura being the early 90s and Kojima the 80s.

The difference is simple attitude. Japanese media knows you need to land the whales to make a profit, you want the people who always buy the special edition and that loyalty is both considered two way and often repaid by Jap Media companies, with either nods or neat stuff thrown into the bundles to justify their price tags and make a decent slice.

The issue we have with Western Devs is the increasing arrogance due to prevalent media attitudes Art is for Arts sake and not for entertainment and if you complain they have a barrage of excuses reasons why you suck and should just fuck the hell off.

We see the same in a lot of Western Media. The hardcore is being told to repeatedly fuck off and then these companies are all stood about confused as to why their bottom lines are tanking. You can see it repeatedly in the shitty movie remakes, the comics industry, and increasingly gaming. The people involved have no interest in creating new, just rebrand and rehash things with their own fan fiction "fresh new take".

We could easily blame SJWism but I wonder if its because we don't take media consumption as seriously in the West. There's a weird prevalence of ridiculous hubristic arrogance that seems to not exist for a lot of the older school developers. They're always in the right and anyone says they're not is obviously outright evil and not someone to ever be listened to.
people like druckmann didn't go into the industry because they liked games and wanted to make cool games. in fact, they don't like games at all, they only care about 'art' which is why the stuff they make feels like it doesn't really want to be a video game and would prefer to be a movie or TV show instead.
 

QuokkaCaptain

The happiest of all the marsupials
kiwifarms.net
Druckmann could be considered an industry veteran of sorts, he's been in the business since 2004.

Nomura and Kojima though are both much older, Nomura being the early 90s and Kojima the 80s.

The difference is simple attitude. Japanese media knows you need to land the whales to make a profit, you want the people who always buy the special edition and that loyalty is both considered two way and often repaid by Jap Media companies, with either nods or neat stuff thrown into the bundles to justify their price tags and make a decent slice.

The issue we have with Western Devs is the increasing arrogance due to prevalent media attitudes Art is for Arts sake and not for entertainment and if you complain they have a barrage of excuses reasons why you suck and should just fuck the hell off.

We see the same in a lot of Western Media. The hardcore is being told to repeatedly fuck off and then these companies are all stood about confused as to why their bottom lines are tanking. You can see it repeatedly in the shitty movie remakes, the comics industry, and increasingly gaming. The people involved have no interest in creating new, just rebrand and rehash things with their own fan fiction "fresh new take".

We could easily blame SJWism but I wonder if its because we don't take media consumption as seriously in the West. There's a weird prevalence of ridiculous hubristic arrogance that seems to not exist for a lot of the older school developers. They're always in the right and anyone says they're not is obviously outright evil and not someone to ever be listened to.
You're not wrong. The thing that gets me is, you can do the "Art for Art's Sake" thing and still have a good attitude about it; simply saying "Hey, we made this game for a particular type of game-player and not everyone's going to be into it" is a thousand times more palatable than thumbing your nose anyone who criticizes you and saying that they "simply don't understand what we're doing".

I mean, Quantic Dream (Heavy Rain, Detroit Become Human), Supermassive (Until Dawn, Dark Pictures Anthology), and even DontNod (Life is Strange)- you don't hear huge controversies about their developers flipping off the video game community, and I feel like that's either because they get that they inhabit a niche in the community(/market) and not everyone is Into them; they'll do their shtick about games as an art-form and valuing their particular way of structuring a game, but to the best of my knowledge they've always toed the line of "do not insult the gaming community, that is where our paycheck comes from". Sure, you'll get lower-level controversies of the social-justice type, but nothing to seriously piss off the video game community or their fans the way Naughty Dog has with this Last of Us shit.

Well, that or they all have good PR teams that cuts the "our games aren't meant to be fun" kind of comments off at the pass.
 

Neurotic Loser

Lurker who needs to Lurk MOAR
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You're not wrong. The thing that gets me is, you can do the "Art for Art's Sake" thing and still have a good attitude about it; simply saying "Hey, we made this game for a particular type of game-player and not everyone's going to be into it" is a thousand times more palatable than thumbing your nose anyone who criticizes you and saying that they "simply don't understand what we're doing".

I mean, Quantic Dream (Heavy Rain, Detroit Become Human), Supermassive (Until Dawn, Dark Pictures Anthology), and even DontNod (Life is Strange)- you don't hear huge controversies about their developers flipping off the video game community, and I feel like that's either because they get that they inhabit a niche in the community(/market) and not everyone is Into them; they'll do their shtick about games as an art-form and valuing their particular way of structuring a game, but to the best of my knowledge they've always toed the line of "do not insult the gaming community, that is where our paycheck comes from". Sure, you'll get lower-level controversies of the social-justice type, but nothing to seriously piss off the video game community or their fans the way Naughty Dog has with this Last of Us shit.

Well, that or they all have good PR teams that cuts the "our games aren't meant to be fun" kind of comments off at the pass.
The thing with Druckmann is that he's up his own arse with the artsy fartsy shit without either the passion or care that follows with it.

Another developer also stated something at or close to that level of pretentious. Remember the time when the developer of A Way Out had a long ass fuck rant about the Oscars during the VGAs. Everyone thought he was an asshole but when his game came out and people saw the story, they loved it and thought he was right about his prior comments. This is because he said those comments out of passion and care for the game he was making. The story didn't seem like he thought he was smarter than everyone else. More importantly his comments didn't insult the customers of his game directly.
When Druckmann said "we don't use the word fun" it also comes off as pretentious. But, more importantly, it is insulting to the audience of his medium. It feels like he sees himself as above it all; that other games are shallow and; players are dumb for enjoying fun games. It comes off like he has a distain for the medium as a whole. (Which is why it isn't suprising that so many workers hated him as a boss).

The story also reflects his ill-earned ego, with a new character brutalising the old beloved characters (not before these characters get smeared as monstrousities). All because the writer wanted to make a "deep" story about the cycle of revenge.
 
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