The Last of Us: Part 2 - This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment

Tard

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That thread is a wild fucking ride. Chloe-stans are fucking wild. She wanted to steal money from a handicap fund (for a wheelchair ramp iirc) for the school to pay off her fucking drug dealer, but apparently Warren is the "toxic" romantic option for Max
It's ironic because Warren is kinda a ass-kissy simp, the exact type of guy who probably would whiteknight these feminist types who all go on about how he is toxic
Most men who support these idiots are the exact types they tend to bitch about being creepy and being harassed by. White knights have absolutely no self awareness
 

Secret Asshole

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The difference is simple attitude. Japanese media knows you need to land the whales to make a profit, you want the people who always buy the special edition and that loyalty is both considered two way and often repaid by Jap Media companies, with either nods or neat stuff thrown into the bundles to justify their price tags and make a decent slice.

The issue we have with Western Devs is the increasing arrogance due to prevalent media attitudes Art is for Arts sake and not for entertainment and if you complain they have a barrage of excuses reasons why you suck and should just fuck the hell off.

We see the same in a lot of Western Media. The hardcore is being told to repeatedly fuck off and then these companies are all stood about confused as to why their bottom lines are tanking. You can see it repeatedly in the shitty movie remakes, the comics industry, and increasingly gaming. The people involved have no interest in creating new, just rebrand and rehash things with their own fan fiction "fresh new take".

We could easily blame SJWism but I wonder if its because we don't take media consumption as seriously in the West. There's a weird prevalence of ridiculous hubristic arrogance that seems to not exist for a lot of the older school developers. They're always in the right and anyone says they're not is obviously outright evil and not someone to ever be listened to.
To me, it is insanely obvious the difference between Eastern and Western mentalities regarding popular entertainment. Eastern pop-entertainment seems to cherish its audience (a little bit too much sometimes), which buys them insane amounts of loyalty. And its not just for one property. Its a compounding thing. Anime (in general) delivers enjoyable properties to their fans, which makes you want to buy shit. Even if its not from a series you watch, you get the feeling they want you there, they want you to consume their work and its welcoming. So it makes you buy shit and it elevates everyone.

In Western pop-culture, they treat the audience like absolute dog-shit. Like, I don't even feel like I matter when I consume Western media. I'm not talking about just a corporate coldness, that's to be expected. But just that the creatives don't respect the audience, the company doesn't respect the audience and it doesn't respect what they're delivering to the audience.

I've seen this cycle repeated. ENDLESSLY. In every Western medium for fucking years on repeat, like media companies and creatives have become these insane, rétarded children. Its making me go fucking crazy. To the point where I have to ignore every single popular franchise because its been destroyed. Its this disgust and disrespect for the audience and the medium by creatives, sanitization by the suits and mobs on Twitter. It really isn't SJWism. It can't be just this. There are many creatives whose politics and religion are off the deep end but still produce works that respect the audience and doesn't insult them.

Its gotten to the point where Western pop culture isn't just coldly distant to its audience, it actively loathes it. I don't feel welcome in any Western entertainment medium. And I'm not talking about demographics, politics or 'the gays' and shit like that or some gender or race bullshit. I don't give a fuck if my views or my gender or skin color are represented or even respected. I mean, me, as a faceless, gender-less audience member, they're spitting on me going "TAKE THIS YOU FUCKING FAGGOT AND PAY ME" and its like "Did I kill your dog? Did I not buy your book of poems on the discount shelf at Barnes and Noble? What did I ever do to you?" There's this hate directed at me for this imaginary person who doesn't exist, and I'm looking around the room for this person that isn't even there and never has been.

It just boggles my mind and after so many years, I just no longer bother with it. And a lot of people have dropped it as well. Its only amplified the screaming. As if screaming at an empty room will get you anywhere.

You're not wrong. The thing that gets me is, you can do the "Art for Art's Sake" thing and still have a good attitude about it; simply saying "Hey, we made this game for a particular type of game-player and not everyone's going to be into it" is a thousand times more palatable than thumbing your nose anyone who criticizes you and saying that they "simply don't understand what we're doing".

I mean, Quantic Dream (Heavy Rain, Detroit Become Human), Supermassive (Until Dawn, Dark Pictures Anthology), and even DontNod (Life is Strange)- you don't hear huge controversies about their developers flipping off the video game community, and I feel like that's either because they get that they inhabit a niche in the community(/market) and not everyone is Into them; they'll do their shtick about games as an art-form and valuing their particular way of structuring a game, but to the best of my knowledge they've always toed the line of "do not insult the gaming community, that is where our paycheck comes from". Sure, you'll get lower-level controversies of the social-justice type, but nothing to seriously piss off the video game community or their fans the way Naughty Dog has with this Last of Us shit.

Well, that or they all have good PR teams that cuts the "our games aren't meant to be fun" kind of comments off at the pass.
The difference between art for art's sake and popular fiction are two drastically different things. Art for art's sake is Bukowski getting fucking wasted and chain smoking lucky strikes and writing poetry, not really giving a fuck if anyone buys it. Popular fiction is reliant on an audience and you have to play to that audience somewhat. The line sort of gets blurred, as in, if I'm writing a story for myself and then it blows the fuck up, its hard to switch gears. Which is why you see a lot of independent fiction just implode when it gets popular, because the author doesn't feel like he 'owns' the work anymore.

Games are an exception because they're expensive to make generally. Like, Dwarf Fortress is the gaming equivalent of art for art's sake becoming popular in gaming. Its one guy programming this game by himself and then it massively explodes into this cult phenomenon. All of a sudden the features he wants are going to, consciously or unconsciously, get driven by this massive audience.

David Cage, for all his faggotry (and believe me, that's A LOT of faggotry there), just makes what he wants. He doesn't call people names if they don't like it. He's just making what he wants. And if its fun for you, great. If not, that's ok too. I know people mention Kojima, but Kojioma WANTS the audience to enjoy themselves, even if he is making games for himself. He is always very aware of 'hey, this needs to be enjoyable for the people', even in his own weird-ass ideas. He makes 'art for art's sake' but always keeps the people who play his games in mind and always tries to make them fun. Whether he succeeds or fails varies wildly (MGS V in particular is very polarizing, but that can really be blamed on Konami) but game-play wise it is very solid and a lot of fun.

And then, lastly, you have hacks, cunts, parasites and exploiters. Like the developers of Sunset. "Our game is art, fuck off and don't buy it if you don't like it." *nobody buys it* "WHY DIDN'T YOU BUY IT ALL GAMERS ARE FAGS FUCK GAMING* Druckman is basically all of the above, which is why he's such a loathsome individual. I know he desperately wants to be a movie director because he said 'we don't do fun' and for shoving his fucktarded politics into it. Its like (I forget the movie) it just has a hardcore rape scene and they even tried to adjust the sound during it to make it an even more miserable experience. I mean, in cinema, you've got a lot of that freedom and there's always a history of being experimental. The problem is, intellectually, Druckman would probably make something equivalent to 'A Serbian Film' and think it was amazingly deep. There's a really LONG history of film makers who want to make their audiences miserable, and some people eat that up. John Waters is an example. He loves making audiences uncomfortable, and he has a cult following because of just how he does it. And it can be done well. The thing is, a movie is $10 bucks (or like $5 or 6 or 'free' with a streaming service) and two hours or so worth of your life. So not a huge investment there. "Alright, I'm open to a little self misery for that price, lets see if this is art or trash". There's not much investment, time or money wise.

With TLOU2, you're asking people to self-flagellate and make themselves fucking miserable for a $60 entry fee and 20 to 30 hours of their time. If you can't see that difference, you're a fucking idiot who shouldn't be making video games. Especially AAA, expensive ones. Movies can get away with it because of low time and money. Books can too, low money investment. Games cannot. You cannot say, "Oh, we don't do fun here." Like you fundamentally misunderstand the point. You should always be aiming for an enjoyable experience and make the audience feel like they're satisfied with their time spent. You don't need to cater to their every wish (a lot of creatives make this huge mistake and get really arrogant about it), or even make them comfortable. The problem with 20-30 hours and making it 'not fun' is that shit gets. EXHAUSTING. I played Spec-Ops the Line on Hard (Just...never ever do this unless you hate yourself) and it was a fucking exhausting 8 hours, so much so that I felt like I was going crazy with the character. I cannot even imagine that experience times 3 or 4. It was a miserable experience, but I found it rewarding because the game is a meta-narrative, and being miserable enhanced it.

The problem is TLOU 2 is not a meta narrative. You being miserable doesn't add to the experience. It not being fun doesn't add to it. It doesn't enhance anything. It just exhausts your audience. Like, look at a movie that makes you feel like utter shit (but is good) and how just mentally exhausted you are after an hour and a half or two hours. Then multiply that time by over ten and the price by about 6 times. You'd punch that person in the face. Its the supreme point of arrogance to expect your audience to take this amount of punishment with a smile. Which is why I post so much in this thread and detest creatures like Druckman. I love shit-talking him. He is such a piece of creative trash.

You can write a thesis of just how wrong Neil Druckman is on every level. From story-telling, to his creative ideas, to how he includes his ideology, his managing practices, just at every level a failure. His game is pretty and it probably functions ok is the bare fucking minimum in a AAA title. And his title is built all on the story. It just boggles my mind still the ego of some creatives who believe they deserve this audience and will treat them like trash when they treat their audience like trash.

And if this was too long, I'll let my man Shakespeare sum it up on the stories in modern Western media:

"It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Just like all of my posts. (If you think I would just let someone else have that joke, you're out of your mind).
 
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Parthenos

Why hast thou let me see this, Lucifer?
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Replace "Western media" with "American mainstream media" and I'd say you are correct. Say what you want to about Europe politically, they have a lot of respect for their audience artistically. Probably because they're secure enough in their own cultures' artistic output that there aren't really any hangups about what "true art" is or things being unnecessarily pretentious, France being the most notable example.

On the other hand, you have a lot of relative unknowns making stuff for the love of it despite their financial hardships. This is where a lot of Western indie stuff resides, but also where a lot of media produced by developing countries is as well. When you're small, delivering quality is how you make a name for yourself. That, and honesty goes a long way.

The best part is that nowadays, you can by Euro comics on Amazon, games made by Chileans on Steam, and you can even see a lot of international animation/movies on sites like Netflix. (That's not even getting into GOG.) Call me :optimistic: but I think that this increased competition will reduce other nations' dependence on American media, forcing large American companies to actually pay attention to anti/pro-consumer behavior. So if you hate what's happened to Star Wars or The Last of Us, there's a host of other people with great stories to tell, and your money means a whole lot more to them.

(I could sperg about this kind of thing for a while, but I'll leave it here.)
 
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Judge Dredd

Senior Layout Artist
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Fucking gag me with a spoon there's every goddamn Tumblrina trope in one game. I hope the voice actors got paid well at least because the scripts for these games sound like some exceptional fanfic.
Iirc the game opens with a pretentious hipster talking about the artistic value of selfies.

The second game has a similar character. The kid is wowed that a hipster journalist is "all political and stuff" before hipster journo says "Everything is political.".

I tried Gone Home thinking it was an actual horror game because I stupidly didn't look into it more than the lies it was sold on.
That's something that often seems forgotten when that game comes up. Gone Home was sold on a lie that it was a horror game. It also relied heavily on 90s nostalgia bait like references to VHS and X-Files.

One theory I heard was that the game was set in the 90s so the awol lesbian plot twist would make sense, since no one would care these days. I don't buy that myself. I think it was hopping on the 90s nostalgia train that was popular at the time.
 

Alto

To the stars!
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Writing 101, kiddos: be sincere.

It doesn't matter if you're writing absolute dogshit. You need to BELIEVE in your message and BELIEVE in your audience to see it shining through. I've met people who genuinely unironically love The Room because Wiseau is being so goddamn sincere in it despite its complete lack of coherency. That's why Ed Wood is so beloved. Or those weird Italians that made Troll 2. Any of those losers can be a winner to many because they weren't trying to torture the audience with heartless politics. Have a vision and bleed for it. If you're a good writer, you'll make media history. If you suck and take it in stride, people will laugh with you.

When you're a bitter corporate douchebag that wastes talent and creativity on insincere politics and pandering, you're not an artist or a visionary. You're a fucking asshole scamming people that came to go on a journey with characters that speak to them.

Fuck off, Druck. I'll keep my sixty bucks and you can kiss my ass.
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
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There's a really LONG history of film makers who want to make their audiences miserable, and some people eat that up. John Waters is an example. He loves making audiences uncomfortable, and he has a cult following because of just how he does it. And it can be done well. The thing is, a movie is $10 bucks (or like $5 or 6 or 'free' with a streaming service) and two hours or so worth of your life. So not a huge investment there. "Alright, I'm open to a little self misery for that price, lets see if this is art or trash". There's not much investment, time or money wise.
A thing to note about Waters though is he fucking hilarious in interviews. Which changes how you approach his uncomfortable films and other matters because you know there's his pencil moustache and a smile and wink behind his work. The stories from his various films in interviews with Graham Norton in the UK especially had the audience howling with laughter and Graham himself practically doubled up on his interview chair.

Cage is also the same, he leans into the "auteur" director schtick and the other part is he doesn't call his work games, they're interactive movies and he doesn't apologise for it. If you go into it that way you wind up strapping in for a ride with a usually half decent (if slightly hackneyed) story and setting.


Replace "Western media" with "American mainstream media" and I'd say you are correct. Say what you want to about Europe politically, they have a lot of respect for their audience artistically. Probably because they're secure enough in their own cultures' artistic output that there aren't really any hangups about what "true art" is or things being unnecessarily pretentious, France being the most notable example.

On the other hand, you have a lot of relative unknowns making stuff for the love of it despite their financial hardships. This is where a lot of Western indie stuff resides, but also where a lot of media produced by developing countries is as well. When you're small, delivering quality is how you make a name for yourself. That, and honesty goes a long way.

The best part is that nowadays, you can by Euro comics on Amazon, games made by Chileans on Steam, and you can even see a lot of international animation/movies on sites like Netflix. (That's not even getting into GOG.) Call me :optimistic: but I think that this increased competition will reduce other nations' dependence on American media, forcing large American companies to actually pay attention to anti/pro-consumer behavior. So if you hate what's happened to Star Wars or The Last of Us, there's a host of other people with great stories to tell, and your money means a whole lot more to them.

(I could sperg about this kind of thing for a while, but I'll leave it here.)
Except if you're part of the hideous bilge the BBC's "independent" studios constantly pump out as you get shit like Happy Valley which is just made of depression.
 

elzaw

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So I've been digging through some Druckmann's old interviews (this one is from 2013).

Obviously, you had to read between the lines, but I think it's pretty clear he was salty that Amy didn't like his "strong" ideas:
dunk.png

(While you all may like U4, it's no secret he basically stole it from Henning. And the problem is the game would have been great regardless of his involvement because Amy's team already did all the hard work and in terms of actual gameplay he added nothing new. Instead he hijacked her story and made the team crunch for another year or so just to shoot all these new cinematics for his "strong female character.")

Here he actually calls his own writing problematic because he killed too many black people (lol):
reativescreenwriting.com.png


But wait a minute, I thought he doesn't use the F-word:
creativescreenwriting.comnn.png

65666.png


In conclusion, claims he puts the story before personal agenda of making the games more "diverse":
drunk.jpg


My not-so-hot take: TLOU success had nothing to do with the story or writing and had everything to do with the impressive at the time graphics and *shocker* fun gameplay. But nah, the dude was put in charge of one successful project and now thinks he's Kurt Cobain. I don't think he's a sellout because he's too much up his own ass to care about anyone's opinion and genuienly believes his writing is exceptional. He's been like that since the beginning and TLOU2 current clusterfuck has everything to do with his own ego and inability to deal with failure. Which is why I have absolutely no sympathy for his "great story" being attacked and spoiled.
 

Neurotic Loser

Lurker who needs to Lurk MOAR
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Replace "Western media" with "American mainstream media" and I'd say you are correct. Say what you want to about Europe politically, they have a lot of respect for their audience artistically. Probably because they're secure enough in their own cultures' artistic output that there aren't really any hangups about what "true art" is or things being unnecessarily pretentious, France being the most notable example.

On the other hand, you have a lot of relative unknowns making stuff for the love of it despite their financial hardships. This is where a lot of Western indie stuff resides, but also where a lot of media produced by developing countries is as well. When you're small, delivering quality is how you make a name for yourself. That, and honesty goes a long way.

The best part is that nowadays, you can by Euro comics on Amazon, games made by Chileans on Steam, and you can even see a lot of international animation/movies on sites like Netflix. (That's not even getting into GOG.) Call me :optimistic: but I think that this increased competition will reduce other nations' dependence on American media, forcing large American companies to actually pay attention to anti/pro-consumer behavior. So if you hate what's happened to Star Wars or The Last of Us, there's a host of other people with great stories to tell, and your money means a whole lot more to them.

(I could sperg about this kind of thing for a while, but I'll leave it here.)
I'd say the western media label still applies because shows by the BBC clearly do not care for the audience so much that some would break a character's lore and canon just to preach to that said audience, (i.e. Doctor Who).
 

Ginger Piglet

Burglar of Jess Phillips MP
True & Honest Fan
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You're not wrong. The thing that gets me is, you can do the "Art for Art's Sake" thing and still have a good attitude about it; simply saying "Hey, we made this game for a particular type of game-player and not everyone's going to be into it" is a thousand times more palatable than thumbing your nose anyone who criticizes you and saying that they "simply don't understand what we're doing".
And usually those types of developers know what their target audience is and are more happy to listen to them. Civilization, for instance, has a huge and very involved fanbase and references and memes that started out with the early games (Nuclear Gandhi, spearman kills tank, AND THEN THEY WERE EATEN BY MINDWORMS, the Diplorush, etc.) get incorporated into later ones.

Whenever I hear anyone in any medium flail the bladder about how "they just don't understand what we're doing," it immediately tells me that the Emperor is naked.
 

ZehnBoat

Benny Harvey RIP
kiwifarms.net
Call me :optimistic: but I think that this increased competition will reduce other nations' dependence on American media, forcing large American companies to actually pay attention to anti/pro-consumer behavior.
nah, they'll just go after chink bucks
or at least they would if we didn't have the great coof

also i feel the average american still only bothers looking at what's new and popular in the US and has no interest in expanding horizons.
 

wtfNeedSignUp

kiwifarms.net
If we're having the discussion about "game being designed to be not fun", there is actually an example of this type of game that does pull it off: Drakengard.

Drakengard was directed by Yoko Taro, the guy responsible for Nier. The game tries to pass the message that war is not a fun adventure you do with friends, but something that fucks you up and very quickly turns you apathetic. To do this your party is filled with psychopaths and generally unlikable people and the gameplay itself is made to feel dragging and repetitive. The game even goes further and argues against the idea of 100% completion by having the main side quest of the game (collecting weapons and leveling them up) being tedious slog and giving you bleaker endings (unlike the usual case of giving a perfect ending for full completion), with the 100% ending being a massive "fuck you" to the player.

Regardless, I don't think TLOU2 would be able to pull the "game no fun" aspect. First of all, I don't believe the creators will even attempt to make the gameplay feel bad, but just say they'll do it to make game-journos cream their pants. Second, at most the creators will try to manipulate the player to feel bad, while not really making the gameplay conform to the idea that killing dudes being not a fun past-time. Finally, Drakengard was a new title, not being based on an existing setting, and it is still liked only by people forgiving its bad design for the unique things about it, which will not translate well to a multi-million dollar game.
 
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Secret Asshole

Expert in things that never, ever happened
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Writing 101, kiddos: be sincere.

It doesn't matter if you're writing absolute dogshit. You need to BELIEVE in your message and BELIEVE in your audience to see it shining through. I've met people who genuinely unironically love The Room because Wiseau is being so goddamn sincere in it despite its complete lack of coherency. That's why Ed Wood is so beloved. Or those weird Italians that made Troll 2. Any of those losers can be a winner to many because they weren't trying to torture the audience with heartless politics. Have a vision and bleed for it. If you're a good writer, you'll make media history. If you suck and take it in stride, people will laugh with you.

When you're a bitter corporate douchebag that wastes talent and creativity on insincere politics and pandering, you're not an artist or a visionary. You're a fucking asshole scamming people that came to go on a journey with characters that speak to them.

Fuck off, Druck. I'll keep my sixty bucks and you can kiss my ass.
Oh, indubitably. That's what makes them so loveable. That just earnestness is what draws people in. Audiences can be very sensitive to when you're milking them. This depends if they WANT to be milked or don't. There's a big difference. If an audience wants action schlock done by committee (Or a 9 year old, ala the Onion video with the Fast and Furious Screenwriter), they'll be perfectly happy to give you their money. If you milk them and spit in their face and deride them...I really wouldn't be expecting any big returns on that. And TLOU 2 really spits in your face.

A thing to note about Waters though is he fucking hilarious in interviews. Which changes how you approach his uncomfortable films and other matters because you know there's his pencil moustache and a smile and wink behind his work. The stories from his various films in interviews with Graham Norton in the UK especially had the audience howling with laughter and Graham himself practically doubled up on his interview chair.

Cage is also the same, he leans into the "auteur" director schtick and the other part is he doesn't call his work games, they're interactive movies and he doesn't apologise for it. If you go into it that way you wind up strapping in for a ride with a usually half decent (if slightly hackneyed) story and setting.




Except if you're part of the hideous bilge the BBC's "independent" studios constantly pump out as you get shit like Happy Valley which is just made of depression.
Well, Waters loves his fans and his audience. So its not like he's making them miserable/uncomfortable to prove how much an 'artist' he is. Cage I think wanted to do movies (I don't think he honestly cares about landing Hollywood, also French art films are huge and have a long history so he doesn't need to), but became more enamored with the ideas of interactive movies than film-making. So that's the medium he makes and wants to try to explore. Good for him. He doesn't try and 'trick' you into thinking its something it isn't. You know what you're going to get when you buy his game. Also I can't recall if he does sequels or not. That being said....I still don't like his games or his approach. I think its pretentious nonsense, but I can respect what he is trying to do.

Irreversible?
That's the one.

Replace "Western media" with "American mainstream media" and I'd say you are correct. Say what you want to about Europe politically, they have a lot of respect for their audience artistically. Probably because they're secure enough in their own cultures' artistic output that there aren't really any hangups about what "true art" is or things being unnecessarily pretentious, France being the most notable example.

On the other hand, you have a lot of relative unknowns making stuff for the love of it despite their financial hardships. This is where a lot of Western indie stuff resides, but also where a lot of media produced by developing countries is as well. When you're small, delivering quality is how you make a name for yourself. That, and honesty goes a long way.

The best part is that nowadays, you can by Euro comics on Amazon, games made by Chileans on Steam, and you can even see a lot of international animation/movies on sites like Netflix. (That's not even getting into GOG.) Call me :optimistic: but I think that this increased competition will reduce other nations' dependence on American media, forcing large American companies to actually pay attention to anti/pro-consumer behavior. So if you hate what's happened to Star Wars or The Last of Us, there's a host of other people with great stories to tell, and your money means a whole lot more to them.

(I could sperg about this kind of thing for a while, but I'll leave it here.)
Hrm, its hard to say. The thing with East vs. West, is typically when people refer to 'East', its almost exclusively talking about Japan. Because a ton of stuff comes from one country, Americans can moreso get behind it. When shit is coming at you from all over the place, its hard to know where to look. With anime, there are very VERY clear cultural motifs that are constant through every genre (manning up, being a man and protecting women is literally a theme in 90% of the anime I've ever watched. From stuff like Food Wars, to Ecchi, to Comedy to fucking Edgelord to where 90% of the cast is strong women). And we're not talking subtle, it is very very explicit that Western society would grasp their chests at.

That's just one example. So culturally and thematically, I know what to expect. Like if I'm diving into 10 different countries, I have no clue with what I'm going to get or if I'm going to like it. Or if it is easy for me to acquire. Even a lot of popular anime is difficult to get sometimes, so I can't even imagine lesser known countries pop-culture. And even with torrenting, there's only so much. Not to mention I have to be sure its translated in a way that makes it half-way decent to follow. Like, a LOT of cultures have their own idioms, expressions and euphemisms that just don't translate to English at all. And unless it enters the English lexicon (ala schadenfreude from German), its going to need to be explained. What could be a single word or phrase could require a paragraph of explanation, whereas the audience its for would get it immediately, you'd have to look up translator notes. Even during anime, I hear the same words being repeated, but they're translated in different ways. So I sometimes question, "Am I getting something accurate? Or is the translator getting tired and I'm just getting a lot of short-hand?"

Also another important thing that is quite lost in translation and needs to be expressed is intonation and pronunciation. This varies from culture to culture. If you watch anime enough, you begin to pick up a little of the artistic cultural beats and what they're trying to say. But you have to watch a lot of it. Sometimes this isn't really available and you hear something great out of another country and it just feels janky and stilted, because you don't know the culture. This also goes for body language, which isn't universal.

Grammar is extremely important as well, and sometimes cannot be translated at all. 'The Witcher' is considered to be a Polish masterwork, not only in content, but mastery of the language. All of that is completely broken when its translated to English. For stuff like that, you basically need PhDs to translate and creatives to polish it to even have the same effect, and sometimes you never will unless you learn the language. This is EXTREMELY common, especially with books, where authors play with the grammar, phrasing and metaphor of their native language. Some books are basically untranslatable because 90% of the meaning is completely lost unless you know the culture or are a scholar.

So its not as easy as you'd think to just consume media from other cultures. I understand Americans are thought of as primitive beasts with gigantic, neanderthal sloping skulls and simple brains, but we're a hodge-podge of nearly every nation on Earth. Our media dominates simply because the sheer amount we put out, and even then there are certain cultural things even other Americans don't grasp about their own citizenry. We're 365 million people in 50 states, each with their own customs, little cultures and expressions.

I feel like Japan dominates because its a singular country that a sub-culture revolves around and generally has monolithic themes. Themes the Japanese might find dramatic I might find pointless and vice-versa. Just because i understand their pop culture a little doesn't make me a master of it. This is why anime series are so divisive I feel. Its about how much you accept those difference, interpret them correctly in order to follow the story. Which is why anime was a niche hobby for so long. It grew in popularity by word of mouth, people consumed it, and those that got used to the cultural differences stuck around. (The sub vs. dub endless debate is basically a debate over meaning and interpretation. A dub in an anime can change the whole fucking thing, just demonstrating that fragile balance). And this is from a country with popular foreign media all over the world.

I am all for nations creating their own pop culture and getting away from American habits or even taking American habits and making them their own (Bollywood for example, which is another really big foreign pop-culture that's made its ways over seas). Korean horror and Korean movies, which are generally more abstract, ambiguous and strange. All of these carry their country with them, and that's beautiful. The problem is the overwhelming amount. We even see this in gaming. See 'The Witcher's 3' treatment of sex vs. most American games. Same with the Japanese and their art and design philosophy.

I appreciate the thought, but I'm barely keeping up with Eastern Europe and Japan, so central and southern Europe (Fuck Northern Europe, you guys are FUCKED) is just too much, as is more impoverished, domineering societies where media is censored.

I think the real medium will honestly be gaming other than comics, books or movies. Games feed us on a primordial level, and cultural differences are much easier expressed when you can interact with them. So I think games, out of all other media types, has more of a capacity to bridge that culture gap.

nah, they'll just go after chink bucks
or at least they would if we didn't have the great coof

also i feel the average american still only bothers looking at what's new and popular in the US and has no interest in expanding horizons.
Its the choice paradox, honestly. As you have more and ever expanding options before you, the anxiety of picking something increases, you end up paralyzed and choosing nothing. In the past, French and Italian films were EXTRAORDINARILY popular, because they were so uncommon and you can find them easily. With the advent of the internet, Youtube, Twitch, gaming, our entertainment options ballooned like pancreatic cancer. Its a well known phenomenon.

My Steam list has an embarrassing amount of games on it. Yet I only play a handful and am hesitant to explore. Why? Because I don't know what I'm going to get. I want to have a good time, so I stick with that good time I know is guaranteed. Same with a lot of series I re-watch instead of exploring new ones. It takes a lot to plunge into new things constantly, and even with the overwhelming amount of foreign games (Easter Europe is my second favorite, those weird bastards producing shit like 'The Void' and 'Pathologic' and the fucking Agony games (I get the body horror and the geiger influences). The Poles are fucking insane and doing God's work.

I think China will bite them, because they view China as a monolithic entity, so they'll just try and game their ratings board for maximum profit. This also reduces American media domestically, as what China wants, doesn't translate. Like that Matt Damon movie. It bomed here but the Chinese were like "WE WANT MATT DAMON" and all the screaming of white-washing fell on deft ears as it made bucketloads of money.

The Chinese, in general, don't like controversial or political media. They like white people. A LOT (I've heard it even extends to Chinese businesses, when meeting the competition, will hire whites to up the appearance of their prestige). And they expect them to be beautiful, but not sexual. Almost art to look at. And they like things where they turn their brains off (living in a communist shithole makes escapisim extremely profitable). So the Chinese is a different beast that really only thrive for Hollywood and corporate creatives because of exploitation of censorship. If the market was freer, I think it'd be way harder to capture.
 

Ponderous Pillock

Welcome to Triple T, Tards, Troons and Trolls!
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Well, Waters loves his fans and his audience. So its not like he's making them miserable/uncomfortable to prove how much an 'artist' he is. Cage I think wanted to do movies (I don't think he honestly cares about landing Hollywood, also French art films are huge and have a long history so he doesn't need to), but became more enamored with the ideas of interactive movies than film-making. So that's the medium he makes and wants to try to explore. Good for him. He doesn't try and 'trick' you into thinking its something it isn't. You know what you're going to get when you buy his game. Also I can't recall if he does sequels or not. That being said....I still don't like his games or his approach. I think its pretentious nonsense, but I can respect what he is trying to do.
Very true about Waters.

David Cage was originally a composer, and it seems set out to make The Nomad Soul as an interactive game like experience from the start. It makes him an actual pioneer in the whole "Interactive movie" schtick and has been at it now for 21 years.

Note that after Nomad, all Quantic Dream games have gone third person, and that's mostly because he gets dizzy when playing first person games. Farenheit became a mess because it was originally intended to be an episodic saga and was nerfed awkwardly down at Atari's request, and rather than rewrite it and cut down the concepts and factions Cage just sort of... fudged it. Hence ridiculous stuff like the internet god thing and stuff all sort of appearing instead of being explained and revealed steadily over a further 12-20 hours.
 

Judge Holden

Corpsefucker
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Well, Waters loves his fans and his audience. So its not like he's making them miserable/uncomfortable to prove how much an 'artist' he is. Cage I think wanted to do movies (I don't think he honestly cares about landing Hollywood, also French art films are huge and have a long history so he doesn't need to), but became more enamored with the ideas of interactive movies than film-making. So that's the medium he makes and wants to try to explore. Good for him. He doesn't try and 'trick' you into thinking its something it isn't. You know what you're going to get when you buy his game. Also I can't recall if he does sequels or not. That being said....I still don't like his games or his approach. I think its pretentious nonsense, but I can respect what he is trying to do.
John Waters put more dedication, love, and thought into giving a family of incestous, chicken fucking, shit eating, steak stealking, egg fixiated, cannibalistic filth addicts a nuanced connection with the audience and a sympathetic characterisation than literally every mainstream western media franchise for the past eight or so years, and he did this for a film that looks like it was shot on a urine drenched betamax camera

The fact I am not even being remotely hyperbolic when I say this makes me want to be dead.
 
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