The Latest YA Twitter Pile On Forces a Rising Star to Self-Cancel -

Krokodil Overdose

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kiwifarms.net
My instinct after reading the description is that this book seems too stupid to exist, much less get a six-figure deal, but I know it's better to let the dumb shit be.
It might be interesting to read clinically if you're a history buff who knows the Mughal empire backwards and forwards, just to see what the author got right/wrong, but otherwise... yeah.
 

SpeedOSanicRee

kiwifarms.net
How limited is this to YA? I'm thinking of the circle-jerk that the Hugos have become (see the Nostalgia Chick thread) so it's clearly not contained, but YA does seem to be the bleeding edge of the crazy.
I mean, there's been some reeeeing in the past about it happening in the sci-fi/fantasy world, but this was a few years ago.

However, I do think it's the worst in Young Adult and I think the so-called 'New Adult' genre is next. It'll probably spread from there but I don't see it being confined to YA and the occasional fantasy novel. Though in all honesty, fantasy is cut from the same cloth I think--people usually read it for a sense of escapism and to imagine a world different from their own. It's not actually that different from YA if you think about it.
 

Krokodil Overdose

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kiwifarms.net
However, I do think it's the worst in Young Adult and I think the so-called 'New Adult' genre is next. It'll probably spread from there but I don't see it being confined to YA and the occasional fantasy novel. Though in all honesty, fantasy is cut from the same cloth I think--people usually read it for a sense of escapism and to imagine a world different from their own. It's not actually that different from YA if you think about it.
What's "New Adult," and why do I have a sneaking suspicion that the "Adult" in the title is false advertising?
Also, isn't all fiction escapism of one form or another?
 

SpeedOSanicRee

kiwifarms.net
What's "New Adult," and why do I have a sneaking suspicion that the "Adult" in the title is false advertising?
Also, isn't all fiction escapism of one form or another?
New Adult is basically a 'transitional' phase between YA and Adult. It's focused on people ages 18-25 and talks about first experiences in the sense of college, marriage, stuff like that. Honestly, it's kind of YA for people who want to put more not-kid-friendly content in but don't want to cover super adult topics. It's basically YA only replace 'high school' with 'college' and you can actually write about sex now (but if you say 'New Adult is just Young Adult but with more sex' they're likely to get triggered). It's not false advertising, and it's definitely more adult than Young Adult is (which is just ages 12-18 and shouldn't even be called young adult IMO).

Fair point, but this is a bit different. With YA, people can kind of regress into their childhood and remember better times. With fantasy, it's escapism from the real world entirely--especially in the case of high fantasy, where it's in a totally different universe. They don't have to worry about their real-world problems when the real world doesn't even exist.
 

Krokodil Overdose

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kiwifarms.net
New Adult is basically a 'transitional' phase between YA and Adult. It's focused on people ages 18-25 and talks about first experiences in the sense of college, marriage, stuff like that. Honestly, it's kind of YA for people who want to put more not-kid-friendly content in but don't want to cover super adult topics. It's basically YA only replace 'high school' with 'college' and you can actually write about sex now (but if you say 'New Adult is just Young Adult but with more sex' they're likely to get triggered). It's not false advertising, and it's definitely more adult than Young Adult is (which is just ages 12-18 and shouldn't even be called young adult IMO).
Thanks. It sounds like the product of an utterly broken society that, having sacrificed all higher values to power the hedonic treadmill, has no purpose beyond futilely clinging to youth unto it's meanest dregs not my cup of tea. I went to work straight out of high school, so I think I missed that phase in my life.
 

Kari Kamiya

Dopey Mew
kiwifarms.net
New Adult is basically a 'transitional' phase between YA and Adult. It's focused on people ages 18-25 and talks about first experiences in the sense of college, marriage, stuff like that.
Holy fuck did this even need to exist? Serious question because yes, I'm aware of all the demographics and shit, but that's dumb. "New Adult" is a dumb description, literate college students are dumb for allowing themselves to be coddled like this, everything is dumb.
 

ddlloo

kiwifarms.net
Holy fuck did this even need to exist? Serious question because yes, I'm aware of all the demographics and shit, but that's dumb. "New Adult" is a dumb description, literate college students are dumb for allowing themselves to be coddled like this, everything is dumb.
Eh. I'm no expert but it sounds like nothing more than the re-categorisation of some existing works and proper identification of a niche category with a target audience. Sure, a heap of the works in this particular niche/genre might be shit and the '''community''' toxic, but it doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea of the genre itself.

In and of itself I've got nothing against such an idea . Urban fantasy being a sub-genre of contemporary fantasy, being a-sub genre of fantasy itself would be a similar example of the practise.
 

SpeedOSanicRee

kiwifarms.net
Holy fuck did this even need to exist? Serious question because yes, I'm aware of all the demographics and shit, but that's dumb. "New Adult" is a dumb description, literate college students are dumb for allowing themselves to be coddled like this, everything is dumb.
I guess not. I mean, I never thought about it. It can be good, for people who kind of transitioning between a younger and older audience. However, the writings usually suck. They're usually the ones you find on Wattpad that somehow got published but were originally fan fiction. I'm sure not all of it does but most does. Usually the only writers of that ARE 18-25yos who are experiencing new adult things.
 

Kari Kamiya

Dopey Mew
kiwifarms.net
However, the writings usually suck. They're usually the ones you find on Wattpad that somehow got published but were originally fan fiction.
Why am I not fucking surprised. I hate it when "aspiring" writers pull this shit in "polishing" up their shitty fan fic by renaming characters and maybe key locations before publishing it up on Amazon or sending the manuscript to a publishing house. Fan fiction in general is shit due to it being done by amateurs, but it's protected by some loophole that allows it to fall under fair use or something simply because a profit's not being made. But this is a slippery slope that will take fan fic writers back twenty-odd-or-so years to where they will (or should) once again be afraid of legit lawsuits if someone manages to find the balls (and the money) to take one of these authors to court over it.

If someone wants to publish their fan fiction (except the ones that have already been publicly posted), they should just go into sci-fi or for some other big-name series where that's been allowed as long as the original creators/IP holders give them their blessing.
 

Mola Ram

Self Righteous Ego Bastard Asshole
kiwifarms.net
Why am I not fucking surprised. I hate it when "aspiring" writers pull this shit in "polishing" up their shitty fan fic by renaming characters and maybe key locations before publishing it up on Amazon or sending the manuscript to a publishing house. Fan fiction in general is shit due to it being done by amateurs, but it's protected by some loophole that allows it to fall under fair use or something simply because a profit's not being made. But this is a slippery slope that will take fan fic writers back twenty-odd-or-so years to where they will (or should) once again be afraid of legit lawsuits if someone manages to find the balls (and the money) to take one of these authors to court over it.

If someone wants to publish their fan fiction (except the ones that have already been publicly posted), they should just go into sci-fi or for some other big-name series where that's been allowed as long as the original creators/IP holders give them their blessing.
I have some terrible news for you. The single most successful Wattpad fan fic writer is Anna Todd, whose Harry Styles fan fic is about to debut as an actual movie, in theatres and everything.
 

SpeedOSanicRee

kiwifarms.net
I have some terrible news for you. The single most successful Wattpad fan fic writer is Anna Todd, whose Harry Styles fan fic is about to debut as an actual movie, in theatres and everything.
That's who I was thinking of, I think. Her and some chick who wrote something that WASN'T a fanfic but was so bad that I watched someone rant for 20 minutes about how infuriated the story made her (it's called Chasing Red I think). There's so much 1D fan fiction on that site I cringe on the rare occasion I'm on.

The only good news about New Adult is that I don't know of anyone over the age of 25 who writes it. Others go with either YA or just Adult. The downside of that is that it's the 18-25 crowd who are probably some of the most SJW nitwits ever for the most part. After all, technically most of the people in their 20s now are Millennials, also known as the biggest generation of pussies in decades. On the lower end you got the Zoomers but most of them are under the age of 20. If you consider Gen Z to have started in 1997, that means that some of the writers may be Gen Z, but the most vocal will be SJW Millennials.
 
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Someone in a Tree

It's the ripple, not the sea that is happening
kiwifarms.net
So... if I'm an "allocishet" (‽) white writer, it seems to me that the safest course of action is to just write about straight white people. No cultural appropriation, no sensitivity readers required. "Own voice", right?
?
Then they'll just claim your stuff isn't worth reading because it's only about straight white people.
 
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SpeedOSanicRee

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Then they'll just claim your stuff isn't worth reading because it's only about straight white people.
Exactly this. These crazies want less white writers and less stories about white people. Unless your white person has something of note, such as being gay or trans, they don't care. And even that's a tough one to sell. You saw the most recent potential pile-on, about the 6-figure book deal for a story about a trans woman. Well, the writer was a trans woman. So it's #ownvoice (gag) and everything. But it's possible there will still be outrage because their story isn't exactly how it should be or some bullshit.
 

Puddleduck

kiwifarms.net
I honestly think the YA world could do with its version of YaBoiZack.
The tunnel vision when it comes to pitch events in favor of "diverse" writers is just gross; sure, "white guys" have been prominent in books for a while, but hardly ever in YA fiction, and that doesn't mean white guys today have nothing to offer, or that "diverse" writers have more. Even on literary agents' personal sites the bios say they're specifically looking for diverse writers, so I know I'll probably get rejected without a glance due to my name.
This is just the side of it I see, obviously. But through my twitter follows I see the various dogpiles and condescension aimed at anyone not in their woke bubble, and the difference in the way people are treated (both personally and professionally) due to their identities...

For anyone who cares, I repurposed the book I'm working on to the 9-12 market, and it actually works better this way
 

SpeedOSanicRee

kiwifarms.net
I honestly think the YA world could do with its version of YaBoiZack.
The tunnel vision when it comes to pitch events in favor of "diverse" writers is just gross; sure, "white guys" have been prominent in books for a while, but hardly ever in YA fiction, and that doesn't mean white guys today have nothing to offer, or that "diverse" writers have more. Even on literary agents' personal sites the bios say they're specifically looking for diverse writers, so I know I'll probably get rejected without a glance due to my name.
This is just the side of it I see, obviously. But through my twitter follows I see the various dogpiles and condescension aimed at anyone not in their woke bubble, and the difference in the way people are treated (both personally and professionally) due to their identities...

For anyone who cares, I repurposed the book I'm working on to the 9-12 market, and it actually works better this way
Sounds accurate. It's really sad that in an effort to be more inclusive, that was overshot and went straight into 'ONLY POC/LGBT writers!'. That's just as bad as only wanting white writers--which, BTW, isn't even really an issue anymore. Back during segregation times, definitely. But I don't really think that publishers/agents were purposely rejecting POC solely for that reason. Now, white people are getting rejected. But it's different, you see, because yOu caN't bE raCisT tO wHitE peOpLe.
 

TungstenCarbide

kiwifarms.net
Sounds accurate. It's really sad that in an effort to be more inclusive, that was overshot and went straight into 'ONLY POC/LGBT writers!'. That's just as bad as only wanting white writers--which, BTW, isn't even really an issue anymore. Back during segregation times, definitely. But I don't really think that publishers/agents were purposely rejecting POC solely for that reason. Now, white people are getting rejected. But it's different, you see, because yOu caN't bE raCisT tO wHitE peOpLe.
In my country, more or less 12 years ago, if you were a minor who wrote 'fantasy' your book had excellent chances to be published. Eragon had had a lot of success, so editors were looking for child writers who wrote fantasy, the quality of writing didn't matter.

Of course this kind of attitude crashed and burned after three or four years, because it wasn't sustainable, but that period created literal monsters (EG 16yo brats sperging about how writing is as easy as sneezing) and cut away adult authors because what publishing houses wanted was "an editorial happening" that could help to sell the books. Critics tended to be very kind with these 'authors' because of their young age, while autistic fans started flames in the comment section of blog posts that dared to criticize those books. A depressing period for our literature.

Years ago a blogger chronicled his experience with that kind of mentality and it was really amusing but also a bit sad. Summarizing: he, writer for hobby, won the second prize in a literary contest for emerging authors. He had no offers for publication, so he decided to change the title of his novel and send it to a prominent literary agency, posing as a blind 17yo girl who wrote with the help of her granny. A few weeks later he's contacted by the agency, they wanted to talk with the girl's parents because apparently they found her book very interesting and well written, they would be very happy to represent her. For a few days he mulled over it, thinking to find a blind girl willing to pose as his daughter and give her half of the money, but he decided to be honest and come clear about his identity. Of course his book suddenly became bland and uninteresting, and the agency told him that they were sorry, but they didn't think they could sell it to any publishing house.

Now, maybe I'm optimistic, but if the situation in the USA is at this level, I don't think it can go on for long.
 

Fluoxetine the Clown

i had a big raims is a big taims
kiwifarms.net
powerlevel: i'm semi-professional, run in amateur creator circles, so believe me when I say that so much as responding to anyone demanding a work be altered to suit their needs is a massive misstep. it's a pitfall i've seen far too many creators fall into, both professionally and independently, and it never ends well.

change your content according to specific criticisms regarding race, sexuality, and minorities: you won't do it right either way you go. if you don't make the character a stereotype, then you're "erasing" their identity, and if you make the character a stereotype, then you're still evil. should you apologize, you'll be faced with the whole "you're not really sorry, you're just sorry someone called you out!!" it doesn't matter what marginalized group(s) you belong to.

if you just ignore it, then you've really lost nothing. there's an entire audience that doesn't care about drama or are just unaware, and the people shouting for "diversity" are still going to consume the content out of spite, because of course they do! if you can't handle some strangers on the internet saying mean things about you, then don't become a writer. don't become an artist.

social media is going to be our downfall, honestly, and these writers would be so much better off just stepping away. i also wonder, why do none of these "sjw" types write their own books according to their own standards? or is that giving them too much credit?

(also, in all of those screencaps, why are all the critics white? is it the dreaded white guilt that compels them to take a stand for all those poor, marginalized peoples who probably don't fucking care about the YA genre or internet drama?)
 
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