The Mysterious Mr. Enter / Jonathan Rozanski's "Growing Around" - IndieGoGo Campaign Failed, John going off the deep end

CoconutCat

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The brony thing is also probably why Growing Around has so many side characters. My Little Pony had tons and tons of side characters who became fan favorites so that's probably what he's trying to imitate.
The side character thing was actually Kyle/Nayolfa's idea. Nayolfa is basically what Enter would be if he was looking at GA from the outside: he's able to recognise how bad GA is, but his "suggestions" aren't much better.
 

LiquidKid

If Lions Like It, You Know It’s Bad.
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The brony thing is also probably why Growing Around has so many side characters. My Little Pony had tons and tons of side characters who became fan favorites so that's probably what he's trying to imitate.
Well yeah, it’s a show designed exclusively to sell toys. They needed all those characters to make toys out of them. Think of all the autobots that came on screen once and were never heard from again

The side character thing was actually Kyle/Nayolfa's idea. Nayolfa is basically what Enter would be if he was looking at GA from the outside: he's able to recognise how bad GA is, but his "suggestions" aren't much better.
I think the side character thing is mostly an attempt to be like the Simpsons, Family Guy, and all those other animated sitcoms that spent years developing rich casts of side characters that have all become just as complex as the main cast.
he just doesn’t know how to make write characters, so it fails on all fronts.
 

Icarus B. Nezzer

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I think the side character thing is mostly an attempt to be like the Simpsons, Family Guy, and all those other animated sitcoms that spent years developing rich casts of side characters that have all become just as complex as the main cast.
he just doesn’t know how to make write characters, so it fails on all fronts.
What most amateur writers don't realize is that neither "The Simpsons" nor "Family Guy" intended to have such large casts of characters from day one. It just happened naturally across several years of episodes. Make one or two new characters to drive a specific story, make some more characters for quick visual gags, and after a while, you have an entire fictional backlot to mess around with. Compare to "Growing Around" where, in the first four episodes alone, Rocky Road has over half a dozen neighbors with established gimmicks, Lemonade Land has over half a dozen employees with established gimmicks, the school has at least a dozen students with established gimmicks, and the introductions are all too much too fast.
 

The Last Stand

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What most amateur writers don't realize is that neither "The Simpsons" nor "Family Guy" intended to have such large casts of characters from day one. It just happened naturally across several years of episodes. Make one or two new characters to drive a specific story, make some more characters for quick visual gags, and after a while, you have an entire fictional backlot to mess around with. Compare to "Growing Around" where, in the first four episodes alone, Rocky Road has over half a dozen neighbors with established gimmicks, Lemonade Land has over half a dozen employees with established gimmicks, the school has at least a dozen students with established gimmicks, and the introductions are all too much too fast.
Also to add, the secondary characters could help flesh out the main characters' personality or motivations across. Introducing too many characters at once gives them less substance. Almost like they're Mary Sues or caricatures of existing stereotypes. Sometimes, less is more. Give your audience time to digest, don't force feed it to them at once.
 

Optimus Prime

Resident KF Transformers Expert
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What most amateur writers don't realize is that neither "The Simpsons" nor "Family Guy" intended to have such large casts of characters from day one. It just happened naturally across several years of episodes. Make one or two new characters to drive a specific story, make some more characters for quick visual gags, and after a while, you have an entire fictional backlot to mess around with. Compare to "Growing Around" where, in the first four episodes alone, Rocky Road has over half a dozen neighbors with established gimmicks, Lemonade Land has over half a dozen employees with established gimmicks, the school has at least a dozen students with established gimmicks, and the introductions are all too much too fast.
Makes me wonder if Enter is even aware that The Simpsons as a show in its entirety was actually Groening coming up with a show pitch minutes before having to give said pitch, because he decided he didn't want to hand Fox the rights to Life in Hell, his personal comic series.
 

New age retro hippie

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Debatable, but I'd say Total Drama and Danganronpa Total Drama: The Anime show you can initialize a show with a large cast if the general premise of the show is dependent on it. Not the case with GA, but still.
like you said the main differenciating factor is intent and, as a mostly slice of life show, Growing Around needs first and foremost to focus on our main characters, not on everyone esle they know. It's kinda funny that Enter took the opposite so much to hearth that his supposed "as best as it can be" pilot abuses cuts and cutaway gags because he wants to present as much characters as possible from the get go, instead of giving the enough space to breath as individual characters.

Even if, to be fair, his whole idea of the pilot needing to be the best possible episode you can come up with is stupid on so many levels. Even his allegedly favorite show (that he still hasn't finished watching), Bojack Horseman, actually had two pilots: the very first and second episode, one more episodic in nature while the other was planting seeds fo a more serialized story, just to see wich one the audience would've liked more and, well, as it goes the rest is history.
 

Icarus B. Nezzer

kiwifarms.net
like you said the main differenciating factor is intent and, as a mostly slice of life show, Growing Around needs first and foremost to focus on our main characters, not on everyone esle they know. It's kinda funny that Enter took the opposite so much to hearth that his supposed "as best as it can be" pilot abuses cuts and cutaway gags because he wants to present as much characters as possible from the get go, instead of giving the enough space to breath as individual characters.

Even if, to be fair, his whole idea of the pilot needing to be the best possible episode you can come up with is stupid on so many levels. Even his allegedly favorite show (that he still hasn't finished watching), Bojack Horseman, actually had two pilots: the very first and second episode, one more episodic in nature while the other was planting seeds fo a more serialized story, just to see wich one the audience would've liked more and, well, as it goes the rest is history.
Bad example. Enter hated both Bojack pilots, and it took a lot of pestering for him to keep going. What Enter wants for "Growing Around" is a pilot that will immediately establish everything about the series so the audience knows exactly what they're getting into. What Enter needs is a pilot that just establishes the main cast, general premise and tone. Save all your world-building details until there's time for it.

"But wait, didn't Bojack's pilot already do what you're suggesting Enter's pilot do? Why did he hate it?" Because, the way I see it, Enter never really liked Bojack Horseman. He just likes the potential of Bojack Horseman. He hates the world, he hates the characters, and he hates most of the comedy, so all that leaves is the overarching story arc; the one with lasting consequences that no other adult animated sitcom seems to have. He likes Bojack as an antithesis to Family Guy, but he can't stand to continue watching it, because the moment that story arc doesn't go the way he wants it, the show has nothing left for him.
 
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Optimus Prime

Resident KF Transformers Expert
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Debatable, but I'd say Total Drama and Danganronpa Total Drama: The Anime show you can initialize a show with a large cast if the general premise of the show is dependent on it. Not the case with GA, but still.
Total Drama also was helped by the fact that A) its a parody of Survivor (a well known reality competition format), and B) all the characters except maybe Chef are lock-step stereotypes you see in every reality TV show (the fat frat boy, the free spirit, the super attractive and actually kind of useless guy, the sassy black girl, the ditz, the schemer who manipulates everyone, etc.) so the show barely has to do anything beyond decent character design to carry those stereotypes and thus establish traits that people would know and expect from those characters. Thus, less time needs to be spent setting these characters up with the audience in terms of pre-loaded backstory.

Enter's deal with wanting a perfect pilot episode seems to be him actually misunderstanding the point of a pilot episode. He wants everything front-loaded because, as I've learned through various means, people like him want to be told things in as clear and confusion-free a manner as possible as soon as possible. Slow burn narrative drives these people up a wall. In reality, pilots are like the first chapter of books - they introduce the setting, narrative, initial plot set-up, and are supposed to entice readers to continue into the story.

Even his beloved MLP FIM stands as proof that what Enter wants is not how you get it, since the two-part pilot of the pony show introduces and then gets rid of the initial antagonist Nightmare Moon, replacing her with Princess Luna who is staunchly a morally lawful character. Besides one Halloween episode, one episode involving alternate timelines, and a final episode involving a dream sequence, Nightmare Moon never appears in the show again and the villains who are defeated at the end of the series? Not one of them appeared in the first season with the longest tenured one only first popping up at the end of Season 2. So, based on Enter's own logic, the pony show pilot completely disproves his concept of how to establish a cartoon 'verse' for narrative conveyance.
 

Icarus B. Nezzer

kiwifarms.net
Total Drama also was helped by the fact that A) its a parody of Survivor (a well known reality competition format), and B) all the characters except maybe Chef are lock-step stereotypes you see in every reality TV show (the fat frat boy, the free spirit, the super attractive and actually kind of useless guy, the sassy black girl, the ditz, the schemer who manipulates everyone, etc.) so the show barely has to do anything beyond decent character design to carry those stereotypes and thus establish traits that people would know and expect from those characters. Thus, less time needs to be spent setting these characters up with the audience in terms of pre-loaded backstory.
Survivor shows in general are an interesting case. They start out insanely cluttered, but since the characters are voted off one by one, each subsequent "round" gives the remaining cast more room to breathe. If, by chance, you can't keep track of everyone, you know you won't have to for very long.

Enter's deal with wanting a perfect pilot episode seems to be him actually misunderstanding the point of a pilot episode. He wants everything front-loaded because, as I've learned through various means, people like him want to be told things in as clear and confusion-free a manner as possible as soon as possible. Slow burn narrative drives these people up a wall. In reality, pilots are like the first chapter of books - they introduce the setting, narrative, initial plot set-up, and are supposed to entice readers to continue into the story.

Even his beloved MLP FIM stands as proof that what Enter wants is not how you get it, since the two-part pilot of the pony show introduces and then gets rid of the initial antagonist Nightmare Moon, replacing her with Princess Luna who is staunchly a morally lawful character. Besides one Halloween episode, one episode involving alternate timelines, and a final episode involving a dream sequence, Nightmare Moon never appears in the show again and the villains who are defeated at the end of the series? Not one of them appeared in the first season with the longest tenured one only first popping up at the end of Season 2. So, based on Enter's own logic, the pony show pilot completely disproves his concept of how to establish a cartoon 'verse' for narrative conveyance.
Devil's Advocate: While FIM's villains always change, the pilot can still be considered front-loading for how efficiently they construct the status quo (i.e. Twilight studying the magic of friendship with her five friends in the land of Equestria.) Things would be different if they hadn't established all the main characters and their aspirations in the first episode, but as it stands now, from Enter's point of view, the FIM pilot did exactly what it needed to.
 
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LiquidKid

If Lions Like It, You Know It’s Bad.
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Debatable, but I'd say Total Drama and Danganronpa Total Drama: The Anime show you can initialize a show with a large cast if the general premise of the show is dependent on it. Not the case with GA, but still.
Both shows have smaller casts than the first episode of GA, and neither show has a background cast. That’s the difference you’re failing to see. It’s one thing to have a large principle cast If characters that’ll appear in every episode until they are voted off/killed. It’s a totally different thing when you have a principle cast of just four characters and a massive secondary cast that often takes precedence over the main cast.
Let’s use spongebob as an example. That show has a recognizable secondary cast. Larry the Lobster, Pearl Krabs, Mermaid Man and Barnacle Boy, Old Man Jenkins, The Flying Dutchman, the My Leg Guy, that one blue guy with the white shirt and red Speedo who beat up the old man,

these are characters that viewers got introduced to very early on, have each had very important roles in specific episodes, and appear frequently enough to be well known staples. Yet there are some instances where they wont appear again for years at a time, or if they do it’s as a voiceless cameo in the background. They’re used in that capacity because not only can they serve as an ally or obstacle in certain episodes, they can also be used as more interesting background fodder as opposed to one of the generic fish designs, but for the most part these characters aren’t important to the show itself and it’s completely possible to exclusively watch episodes they don’t appear in.

Growing Around wants the secondary cast to be massive and relevant constantly. Not a single character is allowed to be generic and in the background. They all need to be given a quirk and backstory and have screen time as often as possible. That’s the kind of shit that leads to characters like Chris-R and Steven from The Room
 

Optimus Prime

Resident KF Transformers Expert
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Honestly, it feels like the secondary cast for Growing Around gets talked about more/has more to do in scripts than the main cast at far too many points
Which also falls into the problem of the main cast already been fully developed in Enter's head or, more likely, exist for such pidgeon holed purposes that they can't actually move a plot along because they're too busy doing the one thing they're supposed to do. I can't fuckin' remember any of their generic names but that one kid forced to constantly crossdress? I bet you that's ALL Enter wants him doing at any given time and thus can't drive the plot.
 

LiquidKid

If Lions Like It, You Know It’s Bad.
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Which also falls into the problem of the main cast already been fully developed in Enter's head or, more likely, exist for such pidgeon holed purposes that they can't actually move a plot along because they're too busy doing the one thing they're supposed to do. I can't fuckin' remember any of their generic names but that one kid forced to constantly crossdress? I bet you that's ALL Enter wants him doing at any given time and thus can't drive the plot.
Tfw you flandarize your generic characters before your show’s first animatic even exists
 

New age retro hippie

NO SKATEBOARDS ARE ALLOWED ON THIS SACRED LAND!
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Devil's Advocate: While FIM's villains always change, the pilot can still be considered front-loading for how efficiently they construct the status quo (i.e. Twilight studying the magic of friendship with her five friends in the land of Equestria.) Things would be different if they hadn't established all the main characters and their aspirations in the first episode, but as it stands now, from Enter's point of view, the FIM pilot did exactly what it needed to.
I think I'd have to disagree because I don't think FiM's pilot actually adheres to how Enter wants a pilot to be made.
You rightfuly stated the first episode sets the future status quo in a good way, but it fails (as per Mr Enter reccomendation) to introduce the secondary cast that was already planned to appear in future episodes, such as Zecora, The Cutie-Mark-Crusaders (wich actually appear together in a scene even if by that point they don't know each other), Photo Finish, Mr & Mrs Cake and Rarity's parents.
Of coure not adhering to Enter's rules doesn't make it a bad pilot, the opposite actually, and if anything it shows why his rules are aribtrary at best.

the way I see it, Enter never really liked Bojack Horseman. He just likes the potential of Bojack Horseman. He hates the world, he hates the characters, and he hates most of the comedy, so all that leaves is the overarching story arc; the one with lasting consequences that no other adult animated sitcom seems to have. He likes Bojack as an antithesis to Family Guy, but he can't stand to continue watching it, because the moment that story arc doesn't go the way he wants it, the show has nothing left for him.
I think you're right about the fact that he doesn't enjoy Bojack Horseman for his merits as a well written TV series, but not because he sees it as the only adult cartoon with a proper continuity unlike FG. After watching the two videos he did on the series, I realized he actually doesn't even care that much about the continuity but is bewitched by the themes of Bojack: being unable to let go of the past, how our actions can hurt people and legacy/death. especially death.
And this is a bit an armachair psychology take but I think he doesn't want to finish the series not because he knows how Bojack's arc is inevitably going to end and doesn't like it but because he knows he isn't prepared to deal with it emotionally.


Mr Enter's future.PNG
(I was going to quote that but decided to take a pic, just in case he goes to the deep end and nukes his YT too)
I mean that's what he put at the end of his review and spent his second Bojack video (20 minutes) basically only talking about death and how much he fears it. How the hell is a person like this going to react to "The view from halfway down"?

P.S. Maybe it' a bit melodramatic to call his recent cancelling of his social media and his Covid rants "the end" but that... video annotation(?) was written in 2016... only 4 years ago, not even five like he predicted.
I'm still debating with myself if this makes that statement more funny or sad in hindsight.
 
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Lord of the Large Pants

Chicks dig giant robots.
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I think I'd have to disagree because I don't think FiM's pilot actually adheres to how Enter wants a pilot to be made.
You rightfuly stated the first episode sets the future status quo in a good way, but it fails (as per Mr Enter reccomendation) to introduce the secondary cast that was already planned to appear in future episodes, such as Zecora, The Cutie-Mark-Crusaders (wich actually appear together in a scene even if by that point they don't know each other), Photo Finish, Mr & Mrs Cake and Rarity's parents.
Of coure not adhering to Enter's rules doesn't make it a bad pilot, the opposite actually, and if anything it shows why his rules are aribtrary at best.



I think you're right about the fact that he doesn't enjoy Bojack Horseman for his merits as a well written TV series, but not because he sees it as the only adult cartoon with a proper continuity unlike FG. After watching the two videos he did on the series, I realized he actually doesn't even care that much about the continuity but is bewitched by the themes of Bojack: being unable to let go of the past, how our actions can hurt people and legacy/death. especially death.
And this is a bit an armachair psychology take but I think he doesn't want to finish the series not because he knows how Bojack's arc is inevitably going to end and doesn't like it but because he knows he isn't prepared to deal with it emotionally.


View attachment 1478396
(I was going to quote that but decided to take a pic, just in case he goes to the deep end and nukes his YT too)
I mean that's what he put at the end of his review and spent his second Bojack video (20 minutes) basically only talking about death and how much he fears it. How the hell is a person like this going to react to "The wiew from halfway down"?

P.S. Maybe it' a bit melodramatic to call his recent cancelling of his social media and his Covid rants "the end" but that... video annotation(?) was written in 2016... only 4 years ago, not even five like he predicted.
I'm still debating with myself if this makes that statement more funny or sad in hindsight.
I would also pay approximately one red cent to see Enter's live reaction to The View from Halfway Down, which is a fairly disturbing piece of animation even for a normal, well adjusted person.

But we know how Enter is about producing things people have paid for.