The NEET Culture - Social trend, sub-culture or condensed autism?

[Pepito The Cat]

Hi everyone! As the title of this thread suggests, I’m setting up this space to discuss the NEET culture and ‘movement’ in relation to modern society. This is a special thread because it was a commission, as in, someone asked me to make the thread in order to fire up the discussion!

Thank you for volunteering to check over my idea for a new thread. I don't really know which board this is appropriate for, maybe General? I want people to consider this in a more serious manner, so I doubt Deep Thoughts is a good fit.

I was thinking of creating a thread to spark discussion as to whether NEETs are a social movement, in the same vein as bohemians and hippies, or not.
I was going to cite research and census data showing about NEETs to explain certain phenomenon about them. Here are some exerpts I have already written up. Your input is much appreciated.

I don’t know if this is common, here in the Farms, but why would someone ask something like this to a 45 years old Argentinian, retired GEOF lieutenant who worked his ass off ever since he was 17 and likes to laugh at retards? It really is beyond me... Yet, I think it is a good mental exercise and a nice way to get in touch with today’s young sub-cultures.

So, what the fuck is a NEET?

A NEET or neet is a young person who is "Not in Education, Employment, or Training".

In the United Kingdom, the classification comprises people aged between 16 and 24 (some 16 and 17 year-olds are still of compulsory school age); the subgroup of NEETs aged 16–18 is frequently of particular focus. In Japan, the classification comprises people aged between 15 and 34 who are not employed, not engaged in housework, not enrolled in school or work-related training, and not seeking work.

The acronym NEET was first used in the United Kingdom but its use has spread to other countries and regions including Japan, South Korea, Taiwan and the United States.

And according to our good friend @kindercola:

"They were originally called Freeters (short for freeloader) or parasite single in their original form in the mid-90s in Japan."

"NEETs as they are today started in the late 90s/early 2000s in Japan with the rise of the internet and Asian market crash and then spread elsewhere, starting with North America. The main characteristics are usually a usage and discussion of/activism for: piracy of media, universal basic income, social security/welfare, and calling for elimination of job training centres or proof of applying to jobs in order to receive welfare. They usually also advocate for distance education, especially when it is cheap or free, as well learning to code. Many are between 18-30 and mentally ill (typically with depression, anxiety or autism) and/or transgender.

I'm getting a bad vibe from this group right from the start. They advocate the illegal use of digital media, they are proudly unemployed and not actively looking for a job. Basically, criminals without an activity and leeching out the system and, by extension, the taxpayer.

Are NEETs really a social renaissance?

Ironically, while many NEETs claim to be learning at home and improving their mental state, research shows that isolation and not having a routine imposed by others, such as work/school deteriorates IQ irreparably. Additionally, many of these individuals' claims to be busying themselves with intellectual pursuits can be easily discredited by their time spent on imageboards and videogame clients like Steam all day. When they do participate in free learning groups, they rarely go beyond the beginner phases.

I can see why someone would compare them to the movement started by the European artists of the 14th to the 17th century: Both were unemployed under society's standards and both had invented their own philosophies on how to view humanity as a whole. I think those comparisons are merely superficial. The new ideals the visionaries of old were following, centered the individual above the divine, especially the Greek philosopher Protagoras, who said that "Man is the measure of all things." as separating God from Man and accepting humanity itself as the big creator. This way of thinking spread well beyond the arts and into politics, science and religion.

On the other hand, we have a bunch of kids (or barely functioning adults) trying to live off the fat of the land, their parents and/or the state with deteriorating minds due to isolation and focusing entirely on entertainment. They believe that doing nothing productive all day is a new way of enlightenment, barely sharing any ideas or socializing outside of shitposting in imageboards.

So I'll say: No, they are not a social renaissance.

Why is NEETism a social trend as opposed to a class of person?

I believe NEETs are a social trend just as hippies are because of their sudden rise and how intimately they are tied to imageboards. Additionally, the lifestyle has become more popular, especially among transgender women as more video games depict it and it spreads to more corners of the internet. This parallels other social movements, where it only the most lonely/desperate/hardcore would be members, and then a sharp increase in membership is seen as it becomes more mainstream.

I don't agree. The Hippies were a derivative counterculture (not merely a social trend) from the Beatniks, an ultra-sarcastic and bleak group who rivaled the "straight" or "squares" of the 50's; strongly protesting against the idea of the nuclear family and the raging paranoia of the Cold War America. Being a Hippie meant to be a non-conformist but completely opposing the Beatniks by projecting joy, trying to free oneself from societal restrictions, to choose your own way and find new meaning in life. They were associated with altruism and mysticism, honesty, joy, and non violence. They were especially relevant in the 60's and 70's due to their fierce opposition to war (Vietnam), the eagerness for recreational use of drugs and for advocating free love. Their influence, beyond their ideas or politics, spread to music, fashion and family organization.

NEETism seems to be centered entirely on validating oneself without creating any culture whatsoever. From the information I could gather, they seem to value one's happiness above all by mathematic formulas showing the "efficiency" of their own life: "Assuming the goal of humans is pleasure and happiness, the life of a NEET is worth a little over 1.5 that of a Normal’s life." They do seem to understand that their lifestyle isn't for everyone, though; and call outsiders "Normies", just like the Hippies and Beatniks call the norm "Squares" but there's a key difference:

"The numbers show that the actual amount of hours spent in free time (anything that isn’t sleeping, working, healthcare, or related to them) between a NEET and a Normal are substantially different, leaning heavily toward Normalcy being the better option".

They seem to know that the life of a NEET is not self-sufficient or sustainable in the long run. Not only because of the lack of earnings to afford their lifestyle but also because of the contradiction born in opposing the social structure and staying in it at the same time. The Hippies were more of a rural bunch with those truly into their philosophy, living and creating communes outside of a system they opposed. NEETs don't have their own space, their own grounds, because their grounds are the same as the "normal" people, going against the social contract but still subscribing to it. They might be perceived by society as parasites, just like the Hippies, but their goals and ideals are very different.

However, the Normal also lives for 60 years as opposed to a NEETs 30, which reveals the real information needed for a conclusion. A Normal will spend just over 40% of their life in a period of free time from age 20 to 80 (assumed age of death), whereas a NEET will spend two thirds of their life in a period of free time from age 20 to 50 (assumed age of death). The conclusion is that NEETs live a more pleasurable life, assuming pleasure is a stable way of measuring life’s value.

This statement is weird. If we take it at face value, there's something severely wrong with the people following NEETism: Why is the average lifespan of a NEET 30 years old? Why do they die sooner if they are happier and more relaxed?

*** All numbers are based on U.S. national averages for the age groups included in these calculations. I may show the math work here some time, but honestly it doesn’t need to be here so it isn’t high priority on my to-do list. ***

Oh. So it's a giant asspull.

In conclusion, NEETism seems to be a way of life chosen by a lot of the site's cows. Some of them because they find more pleasure in doing nothing as long as they can, some others because they pretend to be disabled in order to pursue pleasure in doing nothing as long as they can and the rest, because they are truly disabled (mentally and whatnot) and want to pleasure themselves doing nothing as long as they can. Doesn't seem to be based on any real projection of the world, doesn't seem to be rooted in the realities of modern society and it isn't sustainable in the long run. No wonder this is the chosen lifestyle of so many cows frolicking the farms. If someone approaches me and states "I'm a proud NEET", I ought to assume this person is really sad, like really depressed or mentally ill.

But that's me. What do you think?

 

[KM 749]

They should revert to calling them parasites. It's more honest and suggests that it's an actual problem.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

So, what the fuck is a NEET?

I have wondered this for so long.

 

[Chaos Theorist]

I'd rather be a NEET than Argentinian

 

[Polish Hot Dog (spicie)]

Condensed Autism is my vote. Can we get a poll or something?
Other than that, no comment. OP about summed up my thoughts.

 

[kindercola]

Thank you very much, @Pepito!
It's also important to know that NEETdom has grown as the imageboard culture has flourished and the media (especially anime and video games) portray this lifestyle, both positively and negatively.

I think it's also something to consider that hippies are now considered a culture because we have the hindsight vision of being able to look at the past and the movement's impact. We also have parents/grandparents with glowing nostalgia for the era. Back in the 60s, hippies were also considered cultureless, unwashed heathenistic youth who wouldn't be worth anything in the future by those outside the group.

While I am undecided on if it is an actual social movement, I do think these factors are important. I think the rise in NEETism will be temporary at the very least.

There are some official mascots, such as Anzu Futaba from Idolm@ster, a ''NEET Idol'' (not really a NEET if you work as an entertainer, but I digress...)

Her shirt says ''If you work, you lose'' which has become a popular catchphrase for NEETs.
It is commonly mistranslated in the West as ''If you work, you die'' to be more dramatic.

The NEETs also made other characters their own cannon saints if you will, such as Princess Kaguya from Touhou. She was declared a NEET despite being royalty in the series.

 

[The Fool]

NORMIES GET THE FUCK OFF MY BOARD

 

[Medicated]

I know of these people and communities, but it's just a circlejerk of people trying to convince themselves how great "NEET LIFE" is. Anyone who needs to "identify" with a community of people that do nothing are lolcows.

 

[KM 749]

Happiness requires self-fulfillment, which in turn requires passion.
Passion is not something that is induced artificially, but is rather a spontaneous overflow of real unaffected desire and motivation which runs deeply and uniquely by human emotion and willpower.

None of these people would be NEETs if they had passion in this sense. They would actually be driven to pursue something risky yet promising. In order to do that, they would need to improve themselves and act as adults by learning and working their way up the ladder to pursue their dreams. But the passion in itself is a source of happiness for these people. That is why you can have people who work long hours while driving for Uber or spending many of their years studying for college, while still acting happy or determined. They have a goal in sight, and there is joy in stepping towards that. Whenever they engage in their passion, whether it be a discipline, a hobby, or even working their way towards a love interest, and know that they are improving at it or getting closer, this alone pleases them and gives them perseverance.

George Washington was a strong man. His passion towards his ideal of America as a self-governing democracy forced him to fight the war against Britain and to deny kingship once it was offered to him.

On the other hand, voluntary NEETs are free. Any passions they have do not require much strength, so they do not have to exert themselves and to move into the outside world. This "freedom" cripples them, and is a sign of weakness; a sign of a lack of passion. Ironically, their freedom leaves them with little options for action and even fewer for self-fulfillment.

I am not sure exactly what caused this lack of passion to arise, but it is born in some people, while others have it beaten into them by a combination of self-denial and acceptance of their wretched state and their lack of motion.

 

[Pepito The Cat]

Condensed Autism is my vote. Can we get a poll or something?
Other than that, no comment. OP about summed up my thoughts.

The poll is officially open.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

It's unsurprising that Japan has a large populace of people not seeking employment considering their stagnant economy is high competition, high performance and low pay. People are expected to spend their lives in the office, hold it together and be socially functional. The most you could ever hope for in housing is a 1300 square foot hovel. It's no wonder why so many people chose to just not try when you look at the suicide rates and job markets.

Another phenomena that's struck Japan is some shit called "hikikomori", because Japanese people can't name anything with simplicity in mind. What it amounts to is a reclusive shut-in who refuses to talk to anybody, they find it agonizing to talk to other people, even family. People don't plan on this sort of behavior either, it often occurs when the person in question has a particularly bad day. One example was a man running a dive/diner type restaurant, a customer scolded him over a dish and he receded from society from two years solid before eventually returning to work at his bar.

There are a couple of documentaries about the subject you might find interesting.

 

[kindercola]

On the other hand, voluntary NEETs are free. Any passions they have do not require much strength, so they do not have to exert themselves and to move into the outside world. This "freedom" cripples them, and is a sign of weakness; a sign of a lack of passion. Ironically, their freedom leaves them with little options and even fewer for self-fulfillment.

I'm curious to see what you think, then, of NEETs who master videogames by doing things like speedruns/100% completion on every mode or have autistic hobbies in that vein, like collecting and painting ball jointed dolls. Is that also a valid passion to you?

 

[The Fool]

Happiness requires self-fulfillment, which in turn requires passion.
Passion is not something that is induced artificially, but is rather a spontaneous overflow of real unaffected desire and motivation which runs deeply and uniquely by human emotion and willpower.

None of these people would be NEETs if they had passion in this sense. They would actually be driven to pursue something risky yet promising. In order to do that, they would need to improve themselves and act as adults by learning and working their way up the ladder to pursue their dreams. But the passion in itself is a source of happiness for these people. That is why you can have people who work long hours while driving for Uber or spending many of their years studying for college, while still acting happy or determined. They have a goal in sight, and there is joy in stepping towards that. Whenever they engage in their passion, whether it be a discipline, a hobby, or even working their way towards a love interest, and know that they are improving at it or getting closer, this alone pleases them and gives them perseverance.

George Washington was a strong man. His passion towards his ideal of America as a self-governing democracy forced him to fight the war against Britain and to deny kingship once it was offered to him.

On the other hand, voluntary NEETs are free. Any passions they have do not require much strength, so they do not have to exert themselves and to move into the outside world. This "freedom" cripples them, and is a sign of weakness; a sign of a lack of passion. Ironically, their freedom leaves them with little options for action and even fewer for self-fulfillment.

All the NEETs I've seen on places like wizardchan and tohnochan pretty much actively despair in how useless and unskilled they are. They really do have zero drive and just want to play vidya all day. Like they literally can't do anything, not even rudimentary stuff like drawing or making a web page or something.
I honestly have no idea what to make of it, it sounds like human nature to want to do things. Is it brain damage or something?

 

[kindercola]

It's unsurprising that Japan has a large populace of people not seeking employment considering their stagnant economy is high competition, high performance and low pay. People are expected to spend their lives in the office, hold it together and be socially functional. The most you could ever hope for in housing is a 1300 square foot hovel. It's no wonder why so many people chose to just not try when you look at the suicide rates and job markets.

While Japan does have a higher suicide rate than most countries, it is the norm for Asia. But the small space only applies to Tokyo, outside Tokyo, many people live in very large apartments and even houses. Additionally, the jobs are surprisingly lax-- hours can sometimes be long, but you're even allowed to sleep at your desk! Japan honestly has the lowest working productivity rate in the world because of things like long lunchest and lack of pressure to work ''hard'' like western companies do.

 

[Tranhuviya]

Resorting to cliched namecalling has no effect on the contemporary NEET. We are economic auto-didacts, self-taught philosophers and gifted visionaries. While others waste their life labouring under the orders of those who see only material cost in life, we pursue leisure above all else, knowing as we do that leisure and time to oneself is the basis of genius. Despite many people disliking the culture and society they help maintain through their work, and despite understanding now that we have only a single life on earth and that any meaning we attribute to it as the result of self-willed or socially-inculcated ideologies. they continue to wake early and trudge to their jobs for one single reason: Guilt. Throughout time religions have taken advantage of Man's guilt. a guilt experienced for no logical reason except that he unlike other animals is a self-aware being whose abstract thoughts conflict with the apparently practical, rational reality he finds himself a part of. We post-guilt NEETs will not bow to internal or external pressures encouraging us to sacrifice our contentment and sensitive dispositions for the sake of attaining money, or womenfolk. We alone stand proudly, detached from but keenly observant of the slave masses who yell at us for not being as unhappy as they are. We alone, we band of true men. defend our right to live a dignified life against those wishing to deprive of us of it. Yes you can mock. you can criticize. you can echo the demands your masters make upon you. But who is likely to regret their lives more? The noble and dignified NEETs who spend their truly precious time reading, pondering, philosophizing and engaging in critical, urgent debate online? Or the miserable, resentful masses. their eyes bloated and sagged by excess folds of skin. their hair falling out and their gums bleeding from stress, their bowels destroyed by a sedentary lifestyle spent at their desks clicking endlessly while their boss breaths down their necks? This is reality. This is 2017! We are the future.

 

[MarvinTheParanoidAndroid]

While Japan does have a higher suicide rate than most countries, it is the norm for Asia. But the small space only applies to Tokyo, outside Tokyo, many people live in very large apartments and even houses. Additionally, the jobs are surprisingly lax-- hours can sometimes be long, but you're even allowed to sleep at your desk! Japan honestly has the lowest working productivity rate in the world because of things like long lunchest and lack of pressure to work ''hard'' like western companies do.

I've got another documentary that describes what it's like holding down a job in Japan.

 

[KM 749]

I'm curious to see what you think, then, of NEETs who master videogames by doing things like speedruns/100% completion on every mode or have autistic hobbies in that vein, like collecting and painting ball jointed dolls. Is that also a valid passion to you?

Interesting point.

They are definitely passionate in the manner that they want to improve. The problem is that the passion itself only covers a very narrow area of self-fulfillment, which is the desire to improve in itself. Unless they are good enough to somehow make an honest career out of it, many of them shirk other passions that other people typically have, such as owning a house, having a stable relationship, and creating.

This lack of independence often puts a damper on them.

Many people have hobbies that do not result in profitable careers i.e. backyard gardening or music. However, being an adult is a passion of its own, with finding a job, getting paid, and having responsibility and control over your life being its rewards. They are free to pursue their hobbies at home while also having the power that a responsible adult has. Many speedrunners shirk this and focus all their time on this one hobby, which gets in the way of other necessities that boost this sense of self-confidence and self-worth that results.

 

[fortunecookie]

Umad wagie?

 

[kindercola]

An interesting thing to note is that if a NEET has mental illness, it will become worse by being a NEET because it is proven by medical research that isolation beyond 48 hours destroys brain cells irreparably and thus lowers IQ. Thus it becomes a deadly cycle, especially in cases of social anxiety/depression/anxiety. Socialization is not only healthy, it's a necessity for functioning. People who go without it forget how to eat and sleep regularly, and can no longer talk in a normal pitch.

 

[The Fool]

An interesting thing to note is that if a NEET has mental illness, it will become worse by being a NEET because it is proven by medical research that isolation beyond 48 hours destroys brain cells irreparably and thus lowers IQ. Thus it becomes a deadly cycle, especially in cases of social anxiety/depression/anxiety. Socialization is not only healthy, it's a necessity for functioning. People who go without it forget how to eat and sleep regularly, and can no longer talk in a normal pitch.

That's true, but that's like solitary confinement, locked-in-a-box isolation. NEETs spend all day playing video games and watching videos and talking to people online, that's not really solitary.