The power of the intelligence agencies of the world - What are the limits to their power?

Do you believe that US intelligence controls terrorism, drugs and human trafficking in the world?

  • No, they would never do that

  • No, they could never do that

  • Yes, but its all part of the plan. Trust the plan, they have our best interests at heart!

  • Yes, but its corrupted leadership taking bribes for turning a blind eye

  • Yes, they've been running it all using joint cooperation in signals intelligence to cover it up

  • Sort of, State Street/BlackRock/Vanguard controls US intelligence to control the rest


Results are only viewable after voting.

Haim Arlosoroff

Archpolitician June Lapercal
kiwifarms.net
Kiwifarms, we live in a time of Big Data. I'm very worried about this, not because I have things to hide (although I doubtlessly do) but because the people doing it are liars. In a direct contradiction to the NSA's assurance to United States Congress that it does not collect any type of data on millions of Americans, the existence of a big data analysis and data visualization tool used by the United States National Security Agency was disclosed by documents leaked by Edward Snowden, who worked at the NSA for the defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. The 'Terrorist Surveillance Program' was an electronic surveillance program implemented by the National Security Agency (NSA) of the United States in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks. The program, which enabled the United States to secretly track billions of phone calls made by millions of U.S. citizens over a period of decades, was a blueprint for all of the NSA surveillance that would come after it. They see all, so they claim, and so they know all.

But what kind of people are the agencies recruited to do this sort of work?

The United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has been accused of involvement in drug trafficking. Books and investigations on the subject that have received general notice include works by the historian Alfred McCoy, professor and diplomat Peter Dale Scott, journalists Gary Webb and Alexander Cockburn, and writer Larry Collins. These claims have led to investigations by the United States government, including hearings and reports by the United States House of Representatives, Senate, Department of Justice, and the CIA's Office of the Inspector General. Nothing has come of it.

While the Corsican Gang was protected by the CIA and the SDECE after World War II in exchange for working to prevent French Communists from bringing the Old Port of Marseille under their control. While the CIA was sponsoring a "Secret War" in Laos from 1961 to 1975, while it was openly accused of trafficking heroin in an area of approximately 950,000 square kilometres (367,000 sq mi) that overlaps the mountains where the borders of Thailand, Laos, and Myanmar meet at the confluence of the Ruak and Mekong rivers. CIA historian Thomas Ahern, drawing from his own recollection, stated only that local tribesman being trained by the CIA were prohibited from carrying opium on U.S. chartered flights. However only large packages were inspected, so that small amounts of opium for local consumption might have been carried by individuals, but the prohibition of commercial traffic was unequivocal.

Nothing has come of it.

The Honduran drug lord Juan Matta-Ballesteros was the owner of SETCO, an airline which the Nicaraguan Contras used to covertly transport military supplies and personnel in the early 1980s. Writers such as Peter Dale Scott and Jonathan Marshall have suggested that the U.S. government's desire to conceal or protect these clandestine shipments led it to close the DEA office in Honduras when an investigation began into SETCO, allowing Matta-Ballesteros to continue and expand his trafficking. U.S. Government Officials said in 1990 the Anti-Drug Unit of the C.I.A. "accidentally" shipped a ton of cocaine into the United States from Venezuela as part of an effort to infiltrate and gather evidence on drug gangs. The cocaine was sold on the streets in the United States. No criminal charges were made in this incident, however C.I.A. officer Mark McFarlin resigned and another C.I.A. officer was disciplined. The CIA issued a statement on the incident saying there was "poor judgment and management on the part of several C.I.A. officers". In 1996, Gary Webb wrote a series of articles published in the San Jose Mercury News, which investigated Nicaraguans linked to the CIA-backed Contras who had smuggled cocaine into the U.S. which was then distributed as crack cocaine into Los Angeles and funneled profits to the Contras. Webb was found dead in his Carmichael home on December 10, 2004, with two gunshot wounds to the head. His death was ruled a suicide by the Sacramento County coroner's office. In October 2013, two former federal agents and an ex-CIA contractor told an American television network that CIA operatives were involved in the kidnapping and murder of DEA covert agent Enrique Camarena, because he was a threat to the agency's drug operations in Mexico. According to the three men, the CIA was collaborating with drug traffickers moving cocaine and marijuana to the United States, and using its share of the profits to finance Nicaraguan Contra rebels attempting to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government.

These sorts of men control universal surveillance of you and I. Everyone.

My question is this, if the NSA sees so much and is saving us everyday from terrorism and worse then how are they not able to verify for congress if the CIA are monsters who have slipped the leash? Are they in on it? Is the surveillance program actually a dud? Why can't they stop the drug trade? Are they incapable of stopping human trafficking, or are they allowing it for kickbacks?
 

Hot Cup of Joe

kiwifarms.net
There's a big chance that a section of the cia, nsa did splinter off to create their own 'agency' in the background and working between 'day jobs'.

No time in history has so much power been given to so few with so little over sight.

Hell, if I was in a group of the worlds most powerful people and a government tried telling me what to do, I would blow his brains out in Texas
 

DumbDude42

kiwifarms.net
My question is this, if the NSA sees so much and is saving us everyday from terrorism and worse then how are they not able to verify for congress if the CIA are monsters who have slipped the leash? Are they in on it? Is the surveillance program actually a dud? Why can't they stop the drug trade? Are they incapable of stopping human trafficking, or are they allowing it for kickbacks?
surveillance is not as powerful as you think it is.
even if they collect all data that is sent over the entire internet - then what? 99.9999% of it is worthless noise to them. knowing what to look for, where to look for it and how to find it is the real difficulty now. sure they have automatic systems going through their data, but it's simply not that great.

plus, a lot of stuff simply isn't using channels or mediums that they can surveil easily. say, for example, drug pushers using burner phones - if they text it's easy to run pattern matchin on the messages, but if they call instead of texting, that doesnt work. voice recognition software exists, but it's kinda inaccurate and also takes a lot of effor and computational resources to run compared to working with text, and this becomes even more difficult if the voice communication is in a non english language, uses slang or uncommon dialects, has low audio quality with high noise levels, etc. and that's just regular phone calls.

if you start taking into account real powerful anti surveillance technologies, their job becomes almost impossible. for example, if i use the TOR network to access a protonmail account where i receive PGP encrypted emails, that's three layers of security they have to go through if they want to figure out what's in my mail. protonmail is a (swiss) company that could theoretically be compromised by them, ok. the TOR network is a decentralized layered encryption system that is pretty impossible to crack, though traffic pattern recognition attacks have been theorized to work against it. but even if they were to get through that one as well, they'd now be looking at a PGP encrypted block of text that they simply have no way of getting through unless they somehow get my private key, which they can't unless they abduct me IRL and torture me into revealing the password to my fully encrypted hard drive where my pgp keys are stored.


tl;dr anti surveillance tech is free and very powerful. a high tech organisation like the CIA can easily make all its operations completely immune to all outside surveillance efforts if they want to.
 

Bonesjones

kiwifarms.net
surveillance is not as powerful as you think it is.

tl;dr anti surveillance tech is free and very powerful. a high tech organisation like the CIA can easily make all its operations completely immune to all outside surveillance efforts if they want to.
You assume that protonmail, TOR, and every other source of encryption didn't come from intelligence agencies to begin with.

The real secret is that they only need to trace financial transactions, everything else is just used for parallel construction.

There's a reason no one fucks with VISA or Mastercard, because payment processors are where the true power lies.

Why do you need to worry about lone nutjobs or fringe groups doing anything when you can just watch to see if they are stocking up on firearms or bomb material?
 
Kiwifarms, we live in a time of Big Data. I'm very worried about this, not because I have things to hide (although I doubtlessly do) but because the people doing it are liars. In a direct contradiction to the NSA's assurance to United States Congress that it does not collect any type of data on millions of Americans, the existence of a big data analysis and data visualization tool used by the United States National Security Agency was disclosed by documents leaked by Edward Snowden, who worked at the NSA for the defense contractor Booz Allen Hamilton. The 'Terrorist Surveillance Program' was an electronic surveillance program implemented by the National Security Agency (NSA) of the United States in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks. The program, which enabled the United States to secretly track billions of phone calls made by millions of U.S. citizens over a period of decades, was a blueprint for all of the NSA surveillance that would come after it. They see all, so they claim, and so they know all.

But what kind of people are the agencies recruited to do this sort of work?

The United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has been accused of involvement in drug trafficking. Books and investigations on the subject that have received general notice include works by the historian Alfred McCoy, professor and diplomat Peter Dale Scott, journalists Gary Webb and Alexander Cockburn, and writer Larry Collins. These claims have led to investigations by the United States government, including hearings and reports by the United States House of Representatives, Senate, Department of Justice, and the CIA's Office of the Inspector General. Nothing has come of it.

While the Corsican Gang was protected by the CIA and the SDECE after World War II in exchange for working to prevent French Communists from bringing the Old Port of Marseille under their control. While the CIA was sponsoring a "Secret War" in Laos from 1961 to 1975, while it was openly accused of trafficking heroin in an area of approximately 950,000 square kilometres (367,000 sq mi) that overlaps the mountains where the borders of Thailand, Laos, and Myanmar meet at the confluence of the Ruak and Mekong rivers. CIA historian Thomas Ahern, drawing from his own recollection, stated only that local tribesman being trained by the CIA were prohibited from carrying opium on U.S. chartered flights. However only large packages were inspected, so that small amounts of opium for local consumption might have been carried by individuals, but the prohibition of commercial traffic was unequivocal.

Nothing has come of it.

The Honduran drug lord Juan Matta-Ballesteros was the owner of SETCO, an airline which the Nicaraguan Contras used to covertly transport military supplies and personnel in the early 1980s. Writers such as Peter Dale Scott and Jonathan Marshall have suggested that the U.S. government's desire to conceal or protect these clandestine shipments led it to close the DEA office in Honduras when an investigation began into SETCO, allowing Matta-Ballesteros to continue and expand his trafficking. U.S. Government Officials said in 1990 the Anti-Drug Unit of the C.I.A. "accidentally" shipped a ton of cocaine into the United States from Venezuela as part of an effort to infiltrate and gather evidence on drug gangs. The cocaine was sold on the streets in the United States. No criminal charges were made in this incident, however C.I.A. officer Mark McFarlin resigned and another C.I.A. officer was disciplined. The CIA issued a statement on the incident saying there was "poor judgment and management on the part of several C.I.A. officers". In 1996, Gary Webb wrote a series of articles published in the San Jose Mercury News, which investigated Nicaraguans linked to the CIA-backed Contras who had smuggled cocaine into the U.S. which was then distributed as crack cocaine into Los Angeles and funneled profits to the Contras. Webb was found dead in his Carmichael home on December 10, 2004, with two gunshot wounds to the head. His death was ruled a suicide by the Sacramento County coroner's office. In October 2013, two former federal agents and an ex-CIA contractor told an American television network that CIA operatives were involved in the kidnapping and murder of DEA covert agent Enrique Camarena, because he was a threat to the agency's drug operations in Mexico. According to the three men, the CIA was collaborating with drug traffickers moving cocaine and marijuana to the United States, and using its share of the profits to finance Nicaraguan Contra rebels attempting to overthrow Nicaragua's Sandinista government.

These sorts of men control universal surveillance of you and I. Everyone.

My question is this, if the NSA sees so much and is saving us everyday from terrorism and worse then how are they not able to verify for congress if the CIA are monsters who have slipped the leash? Are they in on it? Is the surveillance program actually a dud? Why can't they stop the drug trade? Are they incapable of stopping human trafficking, or are they allowing it for kickbacks?
Yeah, because no other country has an Intel service, everything is the fault of the Company. the serpent in the garden? Glowie.

Russia, China... Allllll glowies.

saying that, the Skull and Bones society was started by families who made their money from Opium and guns.

now get back to giving your money to US corporations coomsumer pigsheep.
 
It's important to remember that the CIA doesn't do anything on its own. Covert action findings are drafted by the National Security Council, signed by the President, and briefed to the intelligence committees (or at least the gang of eight). That's been the usual procedure since 1986, and while there may be occasional disagreements over how much they share with the committees, in general the Agency follows US law. So when you talk about CIA doing X, what you mean is CIA is doing X for the administration, with the tacit or explicit approval of key members of Congress. (Nancy Pelosi is one of them, and that should terrify you.)

Without addressing specific allegations, it should not be surprising that CIA recruits terrorists and drug runners in foreign countries. That's their job, finding people with access to targets who are willing to betray those targets, either by providing intelligence or engaging in some action against them. They don't work with nice people. That's what the State Department is for. They work with bad people, in particular bad people who have problems that the case officer can solve without going over his or her budget.

My question is this, if the NSA sees so much and is saving us everyday from terrorism and worse then how are they not able to verify for congress if the CIA are monsters who have slipped the leash? Are they in on it? Is the surveillance program actually a dud? Why can't they stop the drug trade? Are they incapable of stopping human trafficking, or are they allowing it for kickbacks?
The NSA is an intelligence agency. It collects intelligence based on priorities in the National Intelligence Program. I don't think "Are the CIA monsters" is in the NIP. They are however reasonably effective against the drug trade; if you want to intercept a plaintext or poorly encrypted communication, or locate a transmitter, they can do that, but then what? Assassinating drug lords is hard--read Killing Pablo--and destroying the organizations underneath them is nearly impossible. I doubt human trafficking is a major intelligence priority, but you run into the same problem. Assume you're intercepting their comms and locating their transmitters, then what? You can't arrest them because most of them are overseas, and intelligence collected without a warrant will never be evidence in court. Do you send the military overseas to kill them? Start a Global War on Seedy Brothels? How much blood do you want to spill so rice farmers' daughters don't have to give farangs handjobs in Bangkok?
 

Piss!

🏴 Heckin Valid Enby 🌹 ACAB 🏳️‍🌈 BLM 🏴
kiwifarms.net
surveillance is not as powerful as you think it is.
even if they collect all data that is sent over the entire internet - then what? 99.9999% of it is worthless noise to them. knowing what to look for, where to look for it and how to find it is the real difficulty now. sure they have automatic systems going through their data, but it's simply not that great.

plus, a lot of stuff simply isn't using channels or mediums that they can surveil easily. say, for example, drug pushers using burner phones - if they text it's easy to run pattern matchin on the messages, but if they call instead of texting, that doesnt work. voice recognition software exists, but it's kinda inaccurate and also takes a lot of effor and computational resources to run compared to working with text, and this becomes even more difficult if the voice communication is in a non english language, uses slang or uncommon dialects, has low audio quality with high noise levels, etc. and that's just regular phone calls.

if you start taking into account real powerful anti surveillance technologies, their job becomes almost impossible. for example, if i use the TOR network to access a protonmail account where i receive PGP encrypted emails, that's three layers of security they have to go through if they want to figure out what's in my mail. protonmail is a (swiss) company that could theoretically be compromised by them, ok. the TOR network is a decentralized layered encryption system that is pretty impossible to crack, though traffic pattern recognition attacks have been theorized to work against it. but even if they were to get through that one as well, they'd now be looking at a PGP encrypted block of text that they simply have no way of getting through unless they somehow get my private key, which they can't unless they abduct me IRL and torture me into revealing the password to my fully encrypted hard drive where my pgp keys are stored.


tl;dr anti surveillance tech is free and very powerful. a high tech organisation like the CIA can easily make all its operations completely immune to all outside surveillance efforts if they want to.
People are not sitting down with headsets to listen to phone conversations and read messages, it's not 1943. They're not using regex either. What they're using is not going to be foiled by replacing "e" with "3" or "in minecraft" or whatever cute little slang -- this is like thinking cops have to tell you they're cops if you ask them, lol.

The only real solution is to install the shit in this post, and vote for whatever insane fringe political party has "make these fucks go away" as a campaign platform, and tell your friends to vote for them, until the politicians in question mysteriously commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head 4 times
 

Taylor Swift's Ghostwrite

2016 Oppression Olympics Bronze Medalist
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The NSA and CIA operate almost immune to most US laws and actively keep lawmakers and the President in the dark so that they can disavow anything fucked up they do. Which is where the problem lies.

NSA doesn't operate in the US, there is a reason you never hear of them raiding people within the country. However they do give info to the FBI* assuming hoops have been jumped through as well as the CIA. They can of course gather their own if need be, but the NSA does most of that.

The real problem is that the CIA specifically only admits to things they get caught on. And some of what they've done is pretty high levels of messed up and there is very little reason to think they've stopped these types of things. On the other hand, the CIA does have average human limitations like hours in a day and how many people they have with the appropriate clearance to engage in specific fuckery.

The FBI would want the info in order to go after someone they can charge so they need to make sure the info they get won't provide an easy appeal. As such, they have much more red tape to go through when getting the info off the NSA
 

Exsosym

kiwifarms.net
BadBIOS exists, privacy and human rights do not. The CIA and NSA's covert agents with access to the surveillance terminals are willing to give full data of anyone to Mexican cartels (listen to podcasts by Ed Calderon on this) or smaller criminals - when they aren't using it themselves for blackmail, insider trading and all sorts of rights infringement.

The US' insistence for countries to reject Chinese 5G happens for this. The US is the one doing massive surveillance. Any country that accepts US' 5G is shooting itself in the foot.
 

Hermann the German

Niemand lügt soviel als der Entrüstete.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Anyone who thinks the CIA is a serious threat to anyone but the Americans they as an agency were created to defend needs to read A Legacy of Ashes, about the creation and history of the agency up until the first Iraq War.

CIA spent more time making gay ass bomb cigars to blow up Castro than they did infiltrating other countries: for instance, while the Soviet Union was still extant, we never penetrated its government, and never had more than a dozen Soviet double agents altogether, in a time period of almost 80 fucking years.

The NSA on the other hand is real shit. They have the largest intelligence offices in the world, and you will likely never hear about the vast majority of completely fucked operations they've pulled on both foreign powers and American citizens.
 

SSj_Ness

You want to eliminate abortion, right?
kiwifarms.net
Virtually limitless power. I only care on principle, I'm a nobody who breaks zero laws (but I do have strong opinions & unpopular views), so I pretty much have nothing to worry about unless the government starts rounding up people for wrongthink. They're welcome to my boring phone calls and gross but legal Internet history.
 

Carlos Weston Chantor

Experienced For Barb's Pleasure
kiwifarms.net
If you think something like CIA or Mossad is powerful imagine if there was a global intelligence agency continuously gathering connections, funds and data since the time of the crusades, surely that would be crazy haha

mas.jpg
 

Caustic Gelatin

Cleans all those hard-to-reach places!
kiwifarms.net
I just want to say for the record that I personally don't condone this thread nor do I believe any of the crazy conspiracy theories posted (like the one that says our intelligence agency/entire government is controlled by a shadowy organization operating behind the scenes who are continuously plot our downfall).

I would also like to state for no particular reason that Israel is our greatest ally and aliens do not exist/are here right now operating on this planet.
 

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