The Punisher Salt - No Fun Allowed as well as No Exploration of the Trauma that Endless War Brings

[Apex Predator]

They think "protagonist" must equate to "morally perfect" or the streets will run with blood. Telling a story where the audience is left to make up their own minds about what they think is unbearable to them. Stories, qua stories, are too complex. Everything must be a sermon. They don't see the actual story parts as anything but the spoonful of sugar to get people to swallow the moral.

 

[The Great Chandler]

Unlike superheroes, the Punisher just straights up kills the bad guy (something Batman doesn't muster the balls to do). He even killed the Avengers in one comic. Plus, he kills brown people in Iraq.

 

[Vorhtbame]

They think "protagonist" must equate to "morally perfect" or the streets will run with blood. Telling a story where the audience is left to make up their own minds about what they think is unbearable to them. Stories, qua stories, are too complex. Everything must be a sermon. They don't see the actual story parts as anything but the spoonful of sugar to get people to swallow the moral.

Which is strange, considering how many "Villain Protagonist" and protag-in-name-only films there were not long ago, and how much they like to promote the "morality is subjective" line (you know, the whole "sometimes good people have to do evil to do good" routine).

 

[TowinKarz]

Moral ambiguity of a character's actions makes for a much more interesting thing to think about after leaving the theatre than the jaded and cynical "Eh, it was okay, how long until the soulless sequel comes out?" we often find ourselves with... IMHO.

 

[Jequiti]

The Punisher is a gem among regular rocks (Jessica Jones, Daredevil and Luke Cage).

 

[Ravelord]

Song related (the latter half only, though):

 

[Done]

Neogaf Translation: It doesn't mock the pain of veterans or Frank and turn it into a satire which none of the comics do, especially the Ennis ones, so I won't watch it. Also there are no heroes and I am a massively stupid faggot.



The Punisher has always been appealing to me, but that's just been the way the character is. He's always been sort of a cult character, never really having a mainstream following. Also I find the mentions of gun violence hilarious. I finished the series and (very minor spoilers)

Spoiler

More people die due to knives/choking/beatings than guns. There's also very little 'gun porn' with the exception of the intro sequence. These bad reviewers aren't even watching this shit. Its 'Oh this is a character that uses guns. We've had shootings, so guns bad'

They just hate the idea of the character, know nothing about him and it doesn't align with any of their politics, which is the most worthless criticism I can think of. I don't give a fuck how it relates to the 'real world'. Is it good television? Does it have a good plot? Characters? Cinematography? Oh. I forget, most of you faggots aren't even English majors anymore, just 'cultural studies' cocksuckers. Shit that 99% of the population doesn't care about, which is why all your outlets are fucked.

I feel that Episode 9 was basically a gun control debate, with all sides equally represented. I have a feeling that a lot of critics were triggered by that episode the most.

Spoiler: Episode 9 spoiler

Though the Senator pushing for Gun Control is basically portrayed as a completely hypocritical coward, who immediately hires a PMC when his life is in danger, and not only immediately reaches for a gun in the face of danger, shooting it a few times as well. But is also alarmingly willing to push an unarmed woman into the path of his & her assaulters, and then lying about it later lol.

 

[Dr. Boe Jangles Esq.]

You know, I'm a massive Punisher fan/autist, have been since I was about 12, the property is far and away my favorite of any comic series, and I'm gonna just fucking say it:
You knew what the fuck you were getting into.

Look, there are series that have some complex factors to them and that people may not know what to expect. There are series that can be vague and unclear about what you're in for.
The Punisher is not that kinda deal, you knew that when you put it on, and if you didn't, you're a moron not worth listening to.

The Punisher is a pitch-black story about a violent, broken, bitter psychotic gunning down drug dealers and slum lords in the vain hope that it'll distract him from the grief of watching his family murdered right in front of him. It's a violent, depressing, harsh, honest look at loss and war and morality and death and how we deal with all of the above, and it's fucking beautiful.
If you were expecting a nuanced critique of gun violence and some ANTIFA rhetoric, then you're not familiar with the property as a whole, and you should accept that maybe this isn't your fucking rodeo. This is like reading Kafka and getting pissy because it's a touch depressing.

I said this in the other thread, but it's an undeniable fact that the Punisher story and iconography has resonated strongly with police and military servicemen, to the point that if you know 3 people who've served, one of them owns a Punisher tee (no, seriously, I've tested this). This should inform you as to what kind of audience the property is speaking to. The stories of the Punisher are about survivors guillt, loss, grief, PTSD, life after service, law and order, and a number of other issues that are important to these people.

If you were hoping it was going to end with "and that's why you shouldn't hurt criminals and guns are bad", then I'm sorry, but you're the equivalent of a guy getting pissed because he just learned his bacon cheeseburger isn't vegan.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

The Punisher is far too violent of a character for this day and age. To make him more palatable he must be replaced by The Light-Handed Disciplinarian who goes around and chides violent criminals.

 

[Computery Guy]

The Punisher is far too violent of a character for this day and age. To make him more palatable he must be replaced by The Light-Handed Disciplinarian who goes around and chides violent criminals.

Unless they're a minority. Then he gives them a 50 dollar bill, hugs them, and lets them know how brave they are.

 

[NotoriousD]

Unlike superheroes, the Punisher just straights up kills the bad guy (something Batman doesn't muster the balls to do). He even killed the Avengers in one comic. Plus, he kills brown people in Iraq.

Pretty much. Growing up I actually disliked a lot of the superhero shit that was so focused on avoiding killing. The argument was always about staring into the abyss for too long, but imo that was just the surface foil for the fact that they didn't want to permanently kill off characters like Luther and Joker, because then how would they have more content to blandly exploit besides a whole new reboot(which they've done anyway before).

Hell, I remember reading about a crossover with Punisher and Batman where Punisher almost killed the Joker but Bats stopped him. I thought "That's the dumbest shit and I would never read it". I've always more been a fan of characters like The Punisher and Judge Dredd because they're no-nonsense protagonists who acknowledge and practice that the world is shit and sometimes you gotta crack a few eggs.

Naturally people that advocate violence against wrongthink and people who want to bitch just to bitch cry out that this is bad.

 

[Done]

Pretty much. Growing up I actually disliked a lot of the superhero shit that was so focused on avoiding killing. The argument was always about staring into the abyss for too long, but imo that was just the surface foil for the fact that they didn't want to permanently kill off characters like Luther and Joker..

Basically this. Punisher doesn't really have any defining villains (except Jigsaw) because by design, none of them escape death long enough to be one. If a villain lives on too long, it makes the Punisher look incompetent, which is something you don't want to do.

 

[NumberingYourState]

Unlike superheroes, the Punisher just straights up kills the bad guy (something Batman doesn't muster the balls to do). He even killed the Avengers in one comic. Plus, he kills brown people in Iraq.

Virgin Batman versus the Chad Punisher

 

[TowinKarz]

Hell, I remember reading about a crossover with Punisher and Batman where Punisher almost killed the Joker but Bats stopped him. I thought "That's the dumbest shit and I would never read it". I've always more been a fan of characters like The Punisher and Judge Dredd because they're no-nonsense protagonists who acknowledge and practice that the world is shit and sometimes you gotta crack a few eggs.

I think we keep coming back to paragon heroes like Batman because there is something endearing about a person who doesn't assume killing is the best solution all the time. We wish we had that luxury of never having to kill to solve problems. That's why we like it. The idea that "Screw silly ideas like moral codes. REAL heroes would just cut out society's cancers by lethal force, and anyone who stops to question that is part of the problem" took over comics completely in the 90s' and we got the infamous dark age.

When "heroes" were motivated by that mantra, the world around them had to get even worse to keep them looking, well, heroic. Problem is, when the world around them was made gritty enough and their villains sociopathic enough that just shooing them in the face was the "right" hero move, there were no real innocents. The world was rotten, you couldn't really pull for it to be saved, you didn't want it saved if it would only breed broken and more broken people.

Characters like the Punisher exist to explore the morality and psychology of killing, but, while he was held up by some as the way heroes "ought" to be, these days I think most people get the undertone he was created with: The idea that one should pity him, and not strive to be like him, he's fighting a war he can't win in a misguided belief it will bring him peace of mind.

 

[TiggerNits]

First fake news, now fake reviews. CNN is the Pamela Anderson's tits of media

 

[Malt Liquor]

Neogaf Translation: It doesn't mock the pain of veterans or Frank and turn it into a satire which none of the comics do, especially the Ennis ones, so I won't watch it. Also there are no heroes and I am a massively stupid faggot.



The Punisher has always been appealing to me, but that's just been the way the character is. He's always been sort of a cult character, never really having a mainstream following. Also I find the mentions of gun violence hilarious. I finished the series and (very minor spoilers)

Spoiler

More people die due to knives/choking/beatings than guns. There's also very little 'gun porn' with the exception of the intro sequence. These bad reviewers aren't even watching this shit. Its 'Oh this is a character that uses guns. We've had shootings, so guns bad'

They just hate the idea of the character, know nothing about him and it doesn't align with any of their politics, which is the most worthless criticism I can think of. I don't give a fuck how it relates to the 'real world'. Is it good television? Does it have a good plot? Characters? Cinematography? Oh. I forget, most of you faggots aren't even English majors anymore, just 'cultural studies' cocksuckers. Shit that 99% of the population doesn't care about, which is why all your outlets are fucked.

Tbh The Punisher was very popular and mainstream in the early '90s,just like Lobo
Man,I wish this was 8-9 episodes instead of 13.It's a good run in the end but you can feel they could trim some fat around the meat,making it even better (and saving some money for better action scenes)
Now,they have to make season 2 inspired by The Slavers and then watching the world burn in salt and flames when this scene happen

Spoiler

 

[GeePee]

it is going to require some major balls of steel to adapt even 1% of The Slavers...

 

[c-no]

it is going to require some major balls of steel to adapt even 1% of The Slavers...

Adapting that arc would no doubt leave people uncomfortable. And if they copy parts like what @Malt Liquor showed or even a guy being burned alive, one expect salty reviews.

 

[Secret Asshole]

'The Slavers' arc would have to be a huge, slow burn. Because you'd have to treat the subject matter seriously and with major respect. I just don't think it's possible at all in the current climate. It would be very difficult to pull off.

(Also that bitch was responsible for gang rapes and 'breaking the girls' as well as killing a baby. Her punishment is feeling as helpless as she made them)

Spoiler

But it would cause enough hate in Castle to find his new war. It was so cathartic when he [spoilers]
Lit the old rapist on fire, recording it and said 'Don't come back here'

It also has a depressing ending because after that they hide so well Frank can't really find them and the trauma remains

The Slavers is my favorite Ennis arc, because it shows the empathy of the Punisher and thay no matter how horrible he is, there are much worse things out there.

(Imagine if they took 'The Slavers and adapted it to ISIS instead. Nuclear mined salt)

 

[Bork Laser]

I don't understand what they are so salty about. In DD season 2 he did kill gangsters and etc but in his own series he only did it really in the first episode. Everybody he ends up killing is pretty either a black ops solider sent to kill him or a PMC solider sent to kill him.