World The Shocking Paper Predicting the End of Democracy - Human brains aren’t built for self-rule, says Shawn Rosenberg. That’s more evident than ever.

Is Shawn Rosenberg right? Or at least accurate?

  • Yes. We should all return to authoritarian systems of government, like monarchy and oligarchy.

    Votes: 16 7.8%
  • No. Rosenberg is just another fart-huffing pseudointellectual "academic"

    Votes: 100 48.5%
  • I don't know/I'm not sure

    Votes: 7 3.4%
  • "Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others" - paraphrase of Churchill

    Votes: 61 29.6%
  • Mostly accurate, some parts inaccurate

    Votes: 12 5.8%
  • Mostly inaccurate, some parts accurate

    Votes: 5 2.4%
  • Equal parts accurate and innacurate

    Votes: 5 2.4%

  • Total voters
    206
Q

QI 541

Guest
kiwifarms.net
Yep, see above: A robber baron will leave you alone if you are without money, but the ideologue will not rest until your very thoughts and dreams have been made "correct" .
Money is power, freedom, and speech. People with more power have more influence over the government, and people with more money have more speech. And since speech influences money, people with power have an incentive to control your speech. So maybe you should start caring while you still can.
 

Senior Lexmechanic

Shitposting displeases the Omnissiah
kiwifarms.net
Money is power, freedom, and speech. People with more power have more influence over the government, and people with more money have more speech. And since speech influences money, people with power have an incentive to control your speech. So maybe you should start caring while you still can.
You're wasting your breath: 90%+ of A&H posters are doomers, accelerationists, or bootlickers who are fine with authoritarian oppression provided it comes in the flavor they like.
 

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid

This will all end in tears, I just know it.
kiwifarms.net
I'd rather be led by intellectuals than by bankers.
Bankers live in the real world and have a working grasp on how the economy works to at least some degree. "Intellectuals" only understand things in the abstract and think reality should bend to their idealism and think that everything will turn out fine in the end because right makes might and as an intellectual, I'm always right. And if it turns out my perfect world falls apart at the seams, it's because someone sabotaged it or the people most needed to keep it in working condition weren't pulling their weight. For more information, see communism, socialism, anarchy, totalitarianism, autocracy.

I would rather have someone who understands the concept of an incentive in charge than someone who thinks that people should just naturally gravitate to their ideals. Better a cut throat necessary evil than a hippy who lives in a fantasy.
The scary possibility in my eyes is the current incarnation of combining the two ideas. Tranny enforced bankerism with a veneer of morality.
Tranny's are universally incompetent people who do what they do to themselves because they have no prospects. The tranny/banker hybrid could never be.
I wonder, how long has it been since the self-styled “elite” were openly calling themselves “elite”? That word was kinda off-limits as a personal description for a long time.
Halo fanboyism and internet culture is where you should look for the starting point.
You're wasting your breath: 90%+ of A&H posters are doomers, accelerationists, or bootlickers who are fine with authoritarian oppression provided it comes in the flavor they like.
What flavor would that be?
 
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TowinKarz

Is it Morning Yet?
kiwifarms.net
Bankers live in the real world and have a working grasp on how the economy works to at least some degree. "Intellectuals" only understand things in the abstract and think reality should bend to their idealism
Ideologues putting "smarts" ahead of "realpolitik" are how we ended up with veteran RAND Corporation think-tankers and an ex-General Motors CEO running the war in Vietnam and thinking monthly kill quotas, losing a platoon of marines to occupy a rice paddy for a night, and burning villages to save them from commies would work...

It may be apocryphal, but someone apparently once told Lyndon Johnson that as far as politics go the guys in his cabinet and the other assorted "Whiz Kids" that JFK had recruited to his administration for their big institutionally-verified brains "may be the smartest men in the room, but I'd sure feel better about em' if at least one had run for Sheriff once...."
 

Ягода

Ягода малина или генрих Ягода
kiwifarms.net
Money is power, freedom, and speech. People with more power have more influence over the government, and people with more money have more speech. And since speech influences money, people with power have an incentive to control your speech. So maybe you should start caring while you still can.
Peons wait years for some case to be heard by SCOTUS, but when Disney need a law to keep Mikey copyrighted, they get the damned law pronto.

US taxes is one of the biggest if not the biggest revenue streams running on this planet. There is a line of politicians lined up to the trough. Congresscritters squabbling over the sweet nectar of money is what keeps any resemblance of diversity of viewpoints. Both right and left craves money but differ in how they want to blow it.


Most politicians are running interference for bankers. There is a quote from a Russian writer, Saltikov-Shedrin "in Russia, when someone starts talking about patriotism, someone, somewhere stole something" Well, it's a universal problem. Politicians foist some bullshit cause, while their donors are jerking off fed money. Vicious circle.
 

SmallTalk201

kiwifarms.net
There this book written by Lipman-Blumen
Allure of toxic leaders.
It describes the process why folks given up their power to an even more authoritarian boss

very relevant to the thread

Power also always seems to centralize. I also like to argue people are not at their best in large scale societies. A small Democratic societies can work well. A large society which is Democratic going run into endless complexities to solve issues as result of largeness and this endless complexes trap result in demise of said society. It's not the style the society is governed by but the size which goes with or against how people are hard wired

What flavor would that be?
I'm one of The so called doomers. I prefer small scale tribal societies. In such societies the leader can be as authoritarian as much they like as long they are (and remain) within strangling distance.

It's far easier to frag a bad lieutenant then a bad general
 
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SmallTalk201

kiwifarms.net
The checks and balances of democratic governments were invented because human beings themselves realized how unfit they were to govern themselves. They needed a system, yes, an industrial-age machine.
humanity is entering a post industrial civilization. Better question what type government would be best for the upcoming age with information tech, genetic engineering and cyber netic implants. along with other freaky stuff
 

TowinKarz

Is it Morning Yet?
kiwifarms.net
humanity is entering a post industrial civilization. Better question what type government would be best for the upcoming age with information tech, genetic engineering and cyber netic implants. along with other freaky stuff
I see nothing in that future that invalidates the US-standard concepts of check and balance, bicameral legislatures or democratic representative republics those all predate the industrial age, no logical reason it would go out with it......
 
Of course, even the American system failed. The country was thrown into a chaotic civil war by a clique of aristocrats who threw a fit when they lost their veto power over the affairs of the entire country.

They key to any democracy is ensuring that every major interest group has their needs attended to. The big issue now is how much will this be done to the expense of interest groups that no longer matter.
To be fair, while said aristocrats were a horrid bunch, they did exactly the logical thing for everybody's happiness. They didn't feel their interests were protected enough so they left. It wasn't them who waged a five-year war to impose their will on another nation.

No community should be forced to stay part of a union it doesn't want to be in. The American states was initially intended to be something like the European Union was pitched as. Think the Euros would let their member states go free? Think they shouldn't have the right?
 

HumanHive

Human behavior is exceptional behavior.
kiwifarms.net
To be fair, while said aristocrats were a horrid bunch, they did exactly the logical thing for everybody's happiness. They didn't feel their interests were protected enough so they left. It wasn't them who waged a five-year war to impose their will on another nation.
I'm sorry, who fired on Fort Sumter again? Because I'm pretty sure it was the Southern aristocrats; who also tried to seize Kansas in a proto-civil war and outright bludgeoned a US Senator on the floor of Congress as well. You may have sympathies towards the South because it is currently a conservative stronghold, but the Confederacy lost any kind of moral high ground it could have possibly claimed the minute it refused to recognize that federal property - especially US military bases - didn't belong to the states and tried to take them by force. They ruined states rights for everyone, not the North. That was the real cause of the Civil War right there. Not slavery, not states rights; but whether or not the US federal government will allow its property to be seized by force just because the locals didn't want them to own it anymore. And the answer was fucking no. So settled was this issue that not even Communist Cuba wanted to test it regarding Guantanamo Bay, even while it was quite happily seizing all different sorts of other people's property.

That said, I do agree with the latter part of your post. It's a shame the South never was amicable about its separation, because if they had been then it would have been likely they would have left and simply rejoined later once the slavery issue went away on its own. Or at the very least gotten some sort of Scottish-like deal, where they have their own Congress but are still a part of the USA on most matters for economic and defense related reasons.
 

TowinKarz

Is it Morning Yet?
kiwifarms.net
Southern succession was doomed because, lacking any legal way to leave the union the only way out was by force. And the Southern economy had no way, not in 10,000 wargaming sessions, to ever overcome the massive industrial and manpower reserves of the North and the Federal army.

Maybe they could defeat it in the field on a good day, but they could never hope to have sustained enough of those victories to ever grind down the North at a rate it couldn't replenish while their own men and material were true one-use-only deals. The only "hope" was the North would lose the will to fight, but that was never going to happen on a contentious issue (slavery) that was pushed to the point that the Federal government was violently defied and fired upon first.... Uncle Sam, even back then, will never stand for having his domestic supremacy challenged.
 

RadicalCentrist

kiwifarms.net
Southern succession was doomed because, lacking any legal way to leave the union the only way out was by force. And the Southern economy had no way, not in 10,000 wargaming sessions, to ever overcome the massive industrial and manpower reserves of the North and the Federal army.

Maybe they could defeat it in the field on a good day, but they could never hope to have sustained enough of those victories to ever grind down the North at a rate it couldn't replenish while their own men and material were true one-use-only deals. The only "hope" was the North would lose the will to fight, but that was never going to happen on a contentious issue (slavery) that was pushed to the point that the Federal government was violently defied and fired upon first.... Uncle Sam, even back then, will never stand for having his domestic supremacy challenged.
Lol you do realize Lincoln nearly lost his re-election solely based on his policy of continuing the war? And that he had to suspend habeas corpus to slap around federal judges who were going to stop him from circumventing a dovish congress? And that the south got as far as it did because General McClellan of the Army of the Potomac lost its stomach for war after the souths early victories and hid in Pennsylvania? The same McClellan who nearly unseated Lincoln in the election based on ending the war?

Jesus Christ. What do they even teach people in schools these days.
 
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Shadfan666xxx000

kiwifarms.net
Lol you do realize Lincoln nearly lost his re-election solely based on his policy of continuing the war? And that he had to suspend habeas corpus to slap around federal judges who were going to stop him from circumventing a dovish congress? And that the south got as far as it did because General McClellan of the Army of the Potomac lost its stomach for war after the souths early victories and hid in Pennsylvania? The same McClellan who nearly unseated Lincoln in the election based on ending the war?

Jesus Christ. What do they even teach people in schools these days.
Whether the south was going to win the war then and there doesn't discount how stunted the Southern economy was and how dependent it had become on the North and the Midwest. The period of the 1860s was basically around the last time the South could really stand up to the rest of the Union in terms of industrial capacity and political will in a straight war and even then it required truly masterful generals and logistics (the fact tha they were able to get ammunition for the struggle is nothing short of an administrative masterpiece, even aside from battles). Altogether, it still couldn't overcome its shortcomings in an attritional battle and the ability of the Federal government to both marshal forces and mobilize a sturdy home front are almost a precursor to WW2 in terms of effectiveness and long term impact even well after wartime.
 
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RadicalCentrist

kiwifarms.net
Whether the south was going to win the war then and there doesn't discount how stunted the Southern economy was and how dependent it had become on the North and the Midwest. The period of the 1860s was basically around the last time the South could really stand up to the rest of the Union in terms of industrial capacity and political will in a straight war and even then it required truly masterful generals and logistics (the fact tha they were able to get ammunition for the struggle is nothing short of an administrative masterpiece, even aside from battles). Altogether, it still couldn't overcome its shortcomings in an attritional battle and the ability of the Federal government to both marshal forces and mobilize a sturdy home front are almost a precursor to WW2 in terms of effectiveness and long term impact even well after wartime.
Wasn't what I was addressing. What I was addressing was the idea that there was no hope of the North cucking out, there most certainly was.
 

ZMOT

kiwifarms.net
It's funny, I don't remember a goddamn word being spoken about immigration until Trump made it a massive deal.
did you forget how 2015 the whole fucking world was watching literal hordes of refugees fleeing all the way across europe because apparently only sweden and germany could keep them safe from isis or war in general?
 
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