The Thief Series -

[I-chi]

I came extremely late to this show due to having only just a year ago actually built a computer capable of running the games, and with a patent love for Hitman, Dishonored, and other such games that, in a way, owe what they are mechanically and, sometimes, thematically to the bar Thief set for the stealth genre of today. I have yet to be unimpressed by what I've experienced, but it's a damn shame the reboot, from what I hear, is a pitiful experience in comparison to its predecessors.

So Kiwis, tell me about your experiences, thoughts, issues with the games, favorite moments, etc.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

The 2014 Thief isn't as bad as people tend to say, but maybe that's just me.

 

[I-chi]

The 2014 Thief isn't as bad as people tend to say, but maybe that's just me.

It really doesn't seem that bad to me, just that as a Thief game as people remembered them, the general complaints were that it suffers from too much constraint whereas there was a certain degree of simplification to the older games. That and you could generally get a better experience just by playing Dishonored. Given the chance I would still like to try it someday.

 

[Coldgrip]

That and you could generally get a better experience just by playing Dishonored. Given the chance I would still like to try it someday.

I wouldn't quite say that. IIRC, kill too many people in Dishonored and it affects your ending. Thief 2014 didn't have anything like that that I remember. Thief also encouraged you to sneak around and avoid combat, where as Dishonored, while also kind of encouraging you to stealth around enemies, gave you the skills to tackle them head on.

Spoiler: Somewhat off-topic sperging.

Maybe it's just me, but I've kind of noticed that people who hated 2014 Thief and screamed about how it butchered the entire series and that it was just utter garbage also seemed to have no problem with Ninja Theory's DMC remake, despite several complaints levied against the newer Thief title also could be applied to the new DMC.

 

[LazarusOwenhart]

I didn't mind the 2014 reboot but I think it lacked the sinister charm of the two originals. Deadly shadows could have been good but the ever present technical issues and non-existant plot turned me off a bit.

 

[I-chi]

Maybe it's just me, but I've kind of noticed that people who hated 2014 Thief and screamed about how it butchered the entire series and that it was just utter garbage also seemed to have no problem with Ninja Theory's DMC remake, despite several complaints levied against the newer Thief title also could be applied to the new DMC.

...But that game was terrible. I mean there's functionally no redeeming quality to it whatsoever; it's a nice action game, but that's about it. It does too much to fuck with and mock the original canon that the joke falls flat on its face before it's even told, and literally can't decide whether it wants to be some serious commentary on a sleeping and apathetic society or a grunge fanfiction chock full of cheap shock appeal and edge. The only thing I heard as far as Thief, besides mechanical complaints, was that, apparently, they removed the supernatural elements to it, I guess? I mean from a fluff standpoint. Which when you think about it...

Spoiler: Spoiler

Makes a lot of sense because Garret activated the Final Glyph and, therefore, eradicated all active Glyphs throughout the City. So the fact that this is, not necessarily a reboot, but an actual continuation works.

I don't believe it butchered the series from what I've seen of it, it's the same case as many other successor titles and long term continuities today: fans will hype themselves into hating it because in some ways, it just won't compare.

 

[Watcher]

I really like this video on the major differences between Thief the Dark Project and Thief 2014. However a lot of what he says can be attributed to modern gaming as a whole.

The only thing I heard as far as Thief, besides mechanical complaints, was that, apparently, they removed the supernatural elements to it, I guess? I mean from a fluff standpoint. Which when you think about it...

The storyline and stylistic design is also terrible.

Bare in mind the original two games had a definitively steampunk design that had a more mature and simple story premise that gradually opened up into a more defined plot. The main character is a selfish likeable Thief. He starts the game without a defined goal besides routine robberies but little by little each mission opens up into a more defined plot. So much of the story is not told through cutscenes but with gameplay.

By contrast Thief 2014 told a very scripted and generic story with characters you don't really care about who mostly just give excuses for gameplay.

In terms of stylistic design the original Thief can be traced to old films like 2000 leagues under the sea. Wheras the developers stated in interviews for 2014 that they were only influenced by very superficial elements of the original games and were more inspired by films like 2009's Sherlock Holmes.

 

[I-chi]

I really like this video on the major differences between Thief the Dark Project and Thief 2014. However a lot of what he says can be attributed to modern gaming as a whole.

The storyline and stylistic design is also terrible.

Bare in mind the original two games had a definitively steampunk design that had a more mature and simple story premise that gradually opened up into a more defined plot. The main character is a selfish likeable Thief. He starts the game without a defined goal besides routine robberies but little by little each mission opens up into a more defined plot. So much of the story is not told through cutscenes but with gameplay.

By contrast Thief 2014 told a very scripted and generic story with characters you don't really care about who mostly just give excuses for gameplay.

In terms of stylistic design the original Thief can be traced to old films like 2000 leagues under the sea. Wheras the developers stated in interviews for 2014 that they were only influenced by very superficial elements of the original games and were more inspired by films like 2009's Sherlock Holmes.

Actually looking into it further, I concede what you say is truth; I think one of the best ways to say it would be that it reduced Garret to little more than an archetype, which sort of makes the game fall apart. Even if it's a 'successor' to his legacy and not actually him , that doesn't really justify him going all Batman in this game, when most of his character involved the reluctance to allow ANYTHING, especially the Keeper's prophecies, direct his course of action; particularly not a fellow thief who got into trouble for his (or her) own slip up (if you can remember why he went through all the trouble of getting to Cutty in T1). You liked him because, in many ways, he's NOT a hero; and actually kind of makes a chuckle out of the notion that he's anything but a greedy and selfish; granted he abides to keep the work of the assassins to them, he is not above thug work either if he can get a nice trinket out of the deal.

Forgive the sperging, I guess it's me putting into words what aspect of that game, had I played it, would put me off.

 

[Overcast]

I got into Thief 1 and 2 around a year or so ago and found them both to be very enjoyable games.

In terms of story, I think 1 is probably the one I prefer overall. But Droopy the Dog was a pretty interesting villain in 2.

Gameplay wise, I have to give it to 2. The levels were generally larger and more complex. And I love how they integrated the Mechanist Creations into the gameplay.

They were both a little rough around the edges, but they were both pioneers in the 3D stealth genre, so I still have some respect for them.

 

[Watcher]

I got into Thief 1 and 2 around a year or so ago and found them both to be very enjoyable games.

In terms of story, I think 1 is probably the one I prefer overall. But Droopy the Dog was a pretty interesting villain in 2.

Gameplay wise, I have to give it to 2. The levels were generally larger and more complex. And I love how they integrated the Mechanist Creations into the gameplay.

They were both a little rough around the edges, but they were both pioneers in the 3D stealth genre, so I still have some respect for them.

Bare in mind the original Thief didn't start out as a stealth game. It was originally a swordfighting game called Dark Camelot.

They retooled it as a stealth game pretty late into development. Apparently the stealth in the game didn't work until a few weeks before the game launched. The different objectives depending on difficulty was one of the last things they added. A lot of the development on Thief in particular was spent on the sound system for the game. Which paid off tremendously.

A lot of levels were then retooled for Thief. Like Down in the Bonehoard, Into the Maw of Chaos, Lost City and others. Some were merged into others. Interestingly enough the Gold Edition of Thief was mostly a lot of cut Dark Camelot levels. Like Mages Tower was in the original design document to Dark Camelot.

 

[I-chi]

But Droopy the Dog was a pretty interesting villain in 2.

I'M GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO IMMEDIATELY THOUGHT OF THAT

I'm even now starting to laugh remembering it.