Culture This State Could Become the First Without an Abortion Clinic - The State of Missouri vs. Planned Parenthood

Lemmingwise

Merry Christmas Kiwis
kiwifarms.net
Well no, not really because one of the only valid functions of government is to protect the populous. A lot of other libertarians would probably disagree with me but I argue that allowing people to opt out of vaccines without a good reason violates the non-aggression principle. It's the same reason libertarians are pro-life
1. Someone might say that killing a fetus is similarly against the non-agression principle and a way to protect the populous
2. You really only need one example to know that the state is not always the best decision maker to see what would protect the populace. For example, the Finders documents have just been released, where police found kids being moved across country lines, with human bitemarks and evidence of sexual abuse. With tunnels under a preschool, with a secret alatm system, with evidence of kids being starved. And the four police stations that were involved with the various cases were tasked to drop it, while the 3 letter agencies send the kids back to the abusers with no legal action.

Now, regardless of whether the current schedule of vaccination is completely in the health interest of its population it's both possible to make mistakes AND to have a corrupt changing of the guard for whatever reason.

I don't think many of those who believe in small states believe that health choices should be made by the state rather than parents/guardians.
 

Dysnomia

Absolutely AFABulous
kiwifarms.net
Sorry, what? Who would get caught in legal litigation? It's not the recipients of an abortion that would get prosecuted, it's the doctors that performed it.

Why? Abortion should be federally illegal for the same reason murder is illegal. Why the hell would we let the states decide that murder is legal? This is what the federal government is for. It's literally the only thing, and you want to kick that right back to the states? Why? The founders of this country would be absolutely baffled that states should decide that killing an unborn child is legal or not, what an absolute absurdity.


What the fuck does that mean? General family planning? You mean you're going to plan whether or not you want to kill your own child? You need planned parenthood for that? I don't think so.
They are not unborn children at that stage. They are fetuses. You can't waltz into a clinic ready to pop and say "You know what doc, murder my full term baby".

I feel a woman should be allowed to decide to abort for whatever reason. You don't know the individual circumstances of a person. In most cases it's probably for the best and most women don't take this major medical procedure lightly. You act like it's as simple as popping a zit.

Planned parenthood does more than abortions. They provide contraceptions, screenings and counseling.

How many unwanted children are you planning to adopt? Because someone has to take care of all these kids after they are born.
 

Manwithn0n0men

kiwifarms.net
I know this is borderline trollposting, but it does raise a genuine question in my mind; why are abortion clinics even vaguely necessary for rape-related cases? Wouldn't just popping a morning-after pill work in the vast majority of incidents? Seems like a fairly standard thing to me. 'Hey, you just got some unwanted wood; want a pill to make sure there aren't any complications with that?'
I saw ((and I cant find it )) a study that suggested over half of women who got an abortion did so as a result of not using other contraceptive methods
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
The medical need for late term abortions is rare, but when it's there it's there. Some horrible complications are easy to miss until the fetus is very far along, as anyone that's browsed tard baby general knows. Short term abortions I don't care about because I don't think a fetus is remotely a person until the accelerated growth period of the brain's frontal lobes.

In any case though, anyone actually getting an extremely late term abortion for purely reproductive reasons is an absolute psycho.

>inb4 just use a rubber
No birth control is perfect. With as many people as we have, every once in awhile a guy's gonna slip one past the goalie.

>lol just go to another state exceptional individual
So, in this right leaning forum, we all agree that government crushing a business (which yes I know planned parenthood is not, which is the reason they're the only thing left there) with massive over-regulation is just fine as long as it's a business we don't like.

To the people arguing for abortion because it kills minorities: Can you just grow some balls and say you want a eugenics program in the US?

Seriously the US feels so schizo on this:
>Ugh! Abortion good
>Ahhhh! Eugenics are literally hitler we must never engage on them
I want a eugenics program that's entirely voluntary and just convinces people that shouldn't have babies or are about to birth a potato to instead destroy the fetus. Not one that forces them to, because muh NAP.

literally hoes mad lmfao
Just like with any social issue (muh drugs, muh gays, muh feminism, muh prohibition) it's mostly just harpies screeching at other harpies because even when men disagree with something their gut reaction tends to be "ok whatever exceptional individual". But women in general demand that everyone conform to their lifestyle and moral standards. So the loudest proponent of a social issue tends to be a woman. But also its loudest detractor is likely to be a woman.
 
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SilkGnut

Gnuts of the Finest Silk
kiwifarms.net
They are not unborn children at that stage. They are fetuses. You can't waltz into a clinic ready to pop and say "You know what doc, murder my full term baby".

I feel a woman should be allowed to decide to abort for whatever reason. You don't know the individual circumstances of a person. In most cases it's probably for the best and most women don't take this major medical procedure lightly. You act like it's as simple as popping a zit.

Planned parenthood does more than abortions. They provide contraceptions, screenings and counseling.

How many unwanted children are you planning to adopt? Because someone has to take care of all these kids after they are born.
There are many families actively looking to adopt newborn children.

What there is not demand for are children who had terrible parents for a few years before the state had to step in.
 

Spastic Colon

My pronouns are fuck/you
kiwifarms.net
Well no, not really because one of the only valid functions of government is to protect the populous. A lot of other libertarians would probably disagree with me but I argue that allowing people to opt out of vaccines without a good reason violates the non-aggression principle. It's the same reason libertarians are pro-life.

Probably a majority of them are. Frankly I think it's a minority of people on either side that are against mandatory vaccinations. I don't know, it seems like such an obvious thing. Obviously you want everyone to be vaccinated, why would anyone not want that unless they're one of these crazy anti-vax types? 🤔
You can want everyone to get vaccinated without wanting to allow the government to FORCE people to get vaccinated. Educating people and offering free or low cost vaccinations is preferable to legally compelling someone to have a medical procedure against their will. Or at least it is to me. I'm not anti-vax. I have had an allergic reaction to a vaccine and a neighbor's kid got Guillain-Barre syndrome from one (which is incredibly rare, though), so there are risks associated with it. I think every person has the right to determine whether the benefits outweigh the risks for them. In most cases, it does and a vaccination is absolutely the right choice. I still think you should have the right to choose for yourself, though.
There are many families actively looking to adopt newborn children.

What there is not demand for are children who had terrible parents for a few years before the state had to step in.
There's a huge demand for white, healthy babies. There's not really a great demand for minority babies or babies born with birth defects, like Down's Syndrome. I'm not sure that ending up in orphanages is a better outcome than being aborted in those cases.
 

mr.moon1488

kiwifarms.net
>Is this a bad thing? Maybe not good for those who might need it if it is life-threatening, but on the other hand....

I mean, any Ob-gyn can do the procedure. Worst case scenario, they can do a cesarean section. You don't need a local Mcbortion.

Well, if you get raped or end up with a Hooligan situation in Missouri, you're shit outta luck. Land of the free, unless THEY make the choice for you.
There are these things called morning after pills.
 

SilkGnut

Gnuts of the Finest Silk
kiwifarms.net
Yeah, parents that would rather not have even had their children, are incapable of foresight and empathy, are pretty bad.

We should give them abortions to avoid that.
I also enjoyed Freakanomics and love using nearly that exact argument in discussions of the subject.

That said if their babies are not known to have unfortunate traits that make them less desirable (thank you for the correction SpasCol) then there is plenty of demand.
 

Your Weird Fetish

Intersectional fetishist
kiwifarms.net
Like any other pet issue of the left, abortion is just another issue in a long list of things that they don't want to be personally responsible for and expect the state (taxpayers) to subsidize their bad decisions. They give out birth control for free and yet women can't seem to figure out how to eat a pill.
You don't think abortion is a pet issue for the right as well? The eternal battle of "all abortions all the time for no reason at all because muh uterus" vs. "no abortions ever for any reason because muh not-quite-babies" is perfect political theater for both sides to rally their bases. No compromise or nuance is ever sought.

You can want everyone to get vaccinated without wanting to allow the government to FORCE people to get vaccinated. Educating people and offering free or low cost vaccinations is preferable to legally compelling someone to have a medical procedure against their will. Or at least it is to me. I'm not anti-vax. I have had an allergic reaction to a vaccine and a neighbor's kid got Guillain-Barre syndrome from one (which is incredibly rare, though), so there are risks associated with it. I think every person has the right to determine whether the benefits outweigh the risks for them. In most cases, it does and a vaccination is absolutely the right choice. I still think you should have the right to choose for yourself, though.

There's a huge demand for white, healthy babies. There's not really a great demand for minority babies or babies born with birth defects, like Down's Syndrome. I'm not sure that ending up in orphanages is a better outcome than being aborted in those cases.
Fucking this. Judging a behavior as stupid or immoral (avoiding vaccinations for no reason, for instance) and shaming people for it doesn't violate the NAP. Forcing someone to put something in their body against their will does, no matter how well advised it may be to do that.
 

Coh

岩手に向かう老人は
kiwifarms.net
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I do have a question:

If abortion isn't murder, why would I be charged with a double homicide if I killed a pregnant woman?
Because we base our modern morality on the fucking law instead of any higher principles. So of course stupid bullshit like that is going to happen because being consistent is impossible in this bureaucratic neoliberal nightmare
 

Spooky Bones

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
No? It means planning for what kind of family you want, number of children, when, etc.

Do you want everyone having nine children? Are you crazy?
You realize that the way babies get made is fairly intuitive, right?
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I do have a question:

If abortion isn't murder, why would I be charged with a double homicide if I killed a pregnant woman?
You can (and should) be in some places. And people were against extra punishment for killing pregnant women because they saw it as a "pro-life" position.
 

Freya

i wanna go where the down boys go
kiwifarms.net
Does anybody remember when republicans threw a hissy fit over the CHIP bill in 2007? It was supposed to give poor kids free healthcare but all the repubs were whining about muh big gubmint.

funny how they suddenly stop caring about babies when theyve plopped out of their mother's vageen. it's almost like they dont actually care about the sanctity of life and just want to control women sexually
 

Spooky Bones

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Does anybody remember when republicans threw a hissy fit over the CHIP bill in 2007? It was supposed to give poor kids free healthcare but all the repubs were whining about muh big gubmint.

funny how they suddenly stop caring about babies when theyve plopped out of their mother's vageen. it's almost like they dont actually care about the sanctity of life and just want to control women sexually
Are you literally so simple as to think that this argument is thoughtful, original, or is even comparing apples to apples?

I would rip you for making such a dumb argument even if I agreed with you in principle. There's a place for saying dumb things to influence dumb people as a propaganda exercise but let's try to keep the discourse level at a room temperature IQ.
 
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