Transgender Bathrooms - The growing crisis.

[The Lizard Queen]

So, there have been a lot of news stories popping up about transgender rights, and most especially, transgender bathroom rights.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-idUSKCN0XA2F2

Things like the South Carolina "bathroom bill" have been all over the news lately, with various politicians and celebrities bashing the law, and companies going so far as to cancel business contracts because they refuse to endorse a state that supports discrimination of any kind.

I don't normally discriminate with stuff like this, but something about the idea of letting anyone into my bathroom creeps me out...

Especially if they look like...

Spoiler: This....

Spoiler: Or this...

Or really, just about any lolcow in these forums.

But what do you think? Should trans people be allowed to go where they please?

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I think that it is a thing that is so minor I don't care one way or another. I think that these laws are just made to antagonize a certain group and governments shouldn't do that but the groups protesting these laws have done their best to try to convince me otherwise. I overall think that government should stop going after people for lifestyle choices that don't adversely affect others regardless of the effects on the individual making the decision as it is only the job of the government to facilitate mutually beneficial interactions between its citizens and no more

 

[Mesh Gear Fox]

But, there's still a part of me that is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of allowing anyone to go into any bathroom they want.

I actually agree with you on this one. I'm openly gay so I should be more tolerant, but it does make me uncomfortable. I just spent the last week in LA so I experienced it first hand and I did have that visceral reaction that made me want to leave the bathroom asap. I know it's not nice but it's just the way I felt. I live in a small mountain town in a very gay-unfriendly state so there's no community here. I'm sure if I was exposed to it more, I would gradually be able to get used to it.

I know it sucks to be transgendered because they face a tremendous amount of discrimination. I hope that I and everyone else will eventually be more accepting of it. Hell, when I was in high school I thought that gay marriage would never be legalized in my lifetime, and if it did, I would be an old man. Fortunately I was wrong and society got used to it and it's not much of an issue anymore (especially because of that Supreme Court decision). I think the same will happen with transgendered persons, but I think it will take a lot longer than the acceptance of gay marriage.

Okay powerlevel/sperging over :p

 

[Marvin]

Yes, most people would say "who cares? Just let them use whatever bathroom they feel comfortable with..." And that's fine for me up to a point. Most tranny people try to pass in society, and don't draw much attention to themselves... But imagine if it was someone else. Someone more like...

Spoiler: This....

Spoiler: Or this...

Or really, just about any lolcow in these forums.

Now imagine if it was someone like that in a bathroom with young children... say, your younger sibling, or child. That's where I start feeling a little sick in the stomach at the idea, and start to wonder if maybe the bigots have a point on this one.

But, maybe that's just me. Maybe I'm just the weirdo and society should not restrict the rights of the majority just because of a few rare creeps. But then again, maybe the risk is too great?

Think about a transman. They're 5'10" and built like a linebacker. Would you want them in the women's bathroom?

Chris and ADF are not legal women. There are also plenty of gross people who can legally go into your bathroom as things are.

Furthermore, all the concerns about predators getting into bathrooms are retarded. No one is going to destroy their social relations by pretending to be trans just to watch you poop. That's retarded.

At the end of the day, gender is the worst way to filter out creeps because there are only two of them (despite what some people on tumblr might think). You'd need a fine toothed comb to actually filter out creeps.

 

[Jerk Sauce]

It's a very tough question, I have known a trans person before, and while I don't really understand it they were a pretty good person. On the one hand I don't want creepers able to just walk into and use the women's bathroom, on the other they are at a slight risk using the male bathroom [although probably ok if they keep to themselves]. You could build toilets specifically for them to use but that comes at a greater cost in terms of expense and room, and you can bet those costs will be passed on to the public. Assuming you weren't going to build extra facilities I guess probably the best compromise would be to require them to dress as the sex they are claiming, that at least should dissuade casual creepers from trying it on.

 

[SpessCaptain]

I think we had a thread about this.

I mean, there's the unisex bathroom, you know?

 

[AnOminous]

I think it's likely that far more creeps will use hate-based anti-trans laws as an excuse to harass innocent people than it is that pervs like Phil will use it (successfully) to harass normal people. There are just a lot more self-appointed morality police with vigilante mentalities than there are trannies, and way, way more of that kind of person than there are fake trannies of the Phil sort. I don't really want that kind of person lurking outside of bathrooms to demand a look at children's genitals.

I don't fear going to McDonald's because I might encounter a Chris-Chan who then tries to run me over or mace me for no reason, because that's pretty rare compared to encountering some vanilla idiot. So I don't think policy should be made based on outlying freaks like Phil or Jordman or Ronald McDonald Walsh or even the entirety of every rat king we cover here.

Not that I think erring toward tolerance is going to create a perfect world where creeps like Phil don't exist, but someone like that stands out in a major way, even in the community he's shielding with. If he acts like enough of a creep he's going to get his ass kicked no matter what the law is.

I think we had a thread about this.

I mean, there's the unisex bathroom, you know?

It's nice when these exist, and in a lot of places, that's the only bathroom there is.

So it's funny this problem is mainly going to affect not the smallest places (that won't have a bathroom at all or will only have one unisex one) nor the richest (trendy places full of hipsters are going to come up with the money to do this shit if they have to remodel to do it), but normal places like fast food restaurants and small schools that are stuck with building choices made decades ago.

 

[KatsuKitty]

There's validity to both sides of this argument as long as you don't say that transwomen are sexually assaulting cis women, because it's just not true. I'm willing to hear either side if you can work forward from that premise.

The real problem is whether or not the laws that allow trans people to use the bathroom are poorly worded enough that a cis man perv would get off the hook in court on a technicality. It's important to remember that the rejection of a specific anti-discrimination measure does not mean you are not in favour of the idea. I'm generally not in favour of regulations on private business for civil rights, but it's been jurisprudence since 1964, and it will be important to word this properly if you must pass it. A clause stating that this law shall not be interpreted to defend the rights of people without an established, medical record of transition would be all you need to counter this argument. This hints at judicious use of probable cause by police when deciding to hear allegations of peeping toms. If they have a record of transition, they're abundantly likely not to be in there to peep.

There is the non-legal aspect of this too, which falls into "At the end of the day...". What do I mean by that? There's just certain things that, at the end of the day, people are going to freak the fuck out at you without any other circumstance. It's not about being rational, it's not about thinking it out, at the end of the day this thing happened. It's a zero-tolerance thing; you did it, you're fucked. The trans bathroom thing is similar: At the end of the day, you brought a dick into the women's locker room. That's it. Nothing else matters. There's a dick in the women's locker room. That's just not going to go over well with people and they're not going to care about anything else you have to say. The only way you counter that though, is education, not with a big-government sledgehammer. You can't just force most women to be comfortable in that environment particularly when there's an epidemic of rape (by cis men) in this country that we've just given up on. The whole "just redesign bathrooms" thing is dodging the bigger problem, which is the reason why women don't feel safe around male bodies; we've just completely given up on ever solving and punishing sexual assault and simply accept that men "just do it".

 

[Joan Nyan]

If a man wants to go into the women's room to commit rape, he already can most of the time. Most places don't have someone guarding the restroom doors. Just make all restrooms unisex and be done with it.

Also, many of the corporations who won't do business in NC have no trouble doing business in the Middle East where gays are hanged.

 

[Hanamura]

I think the concept of the laws are really dumb and hard to enforce in the first place.

If you're going solely based off of looks, butch women are getting kicked out of bathrooms already due to being mistaken for men

People have brought up "ID checks" but
1. I don't think most places can afford some bathroom guard to personally check everyone's ID
2. If the issue is someone with a dick is gonna enter the girl's bathroom, plenty of pre-bottom surgery trans women can get their ID's changed without bottom surgery.

 

[Sheikh_Speare]

Furthermore, all the concerns about predators getting into bathrooms are retarded. No one is going to destroy their social relations by pretending to be tranny just to watch you poop. That's retarded.

I think you underestimate how far people will go to perv out.

Man Dressed as Woman Arrested for Spying Into Mall Bathroom Stall, Police Say

I'm from NC (sorry about the power level). The reason that people opposed the original Charlotte "bathroom inclusiveness" law and why McCrory signed the ordinance that countered it was because it was too loosely worded. It allowed anyone who said they identified as a woman to use women's facilities. The state ordinance still allows transwomen who legally had their birth certificates changed to use the women's room, it just makes it possible to prosecute the sort of "pigs in wigs" who could've abused the wording of the Charlotte law.

 

[Philosophy Zombie]

It's a zero-tolerance thing; you did it, you're fucked. The tranny bathroom thing is similar: At the end of the day, you brought a dick into the women's locker room. That's it. Nothing else matters. There's a dick in the women's locker room. That's just not going to go over well with people and they're not going to care about anything else you have to say. The only way you counter that though, is education, not with a big-government sledgehammer. You can't just force most women to be comfortable in that environment particularly when there's an epidemic of rape (by cis men) in this country that we've just given up on. The whole "just redesign bathrooms" thing is dodging the bigger problem, which is the reason why women don't feel safe around male bodies; we've just completely given up on ever solving and punishing sexual assault and simply accept that men "just do it".

Spoiler: nsfw

(thanks @Kusottare lol)

 

[Pepsi-Cola]

I think if they don't have a record of sexual assualt/harassment/rape/whatever and they've undergone transition, I don't see the problem.

 

[autisticdragonkin]

I think if they don't have a record of sexual assualt/harassment/rape/whatever and they've underogone transition, I don't see the problem.

Where would the sex offenders go then. Would there be designated sex offender washrooms? I don't want a sex offender sharing a washroom with a sex offender especially if they target my gender and not the one they are transitioning to

 

[Pepsi-Cola]

Where would the sex offenders go then. Would there be designated sex offender washrooms? I don't want a sex offender sharing a washroom with a sex offender especially if they target my gender and not the one they are transitioning to

Hm, I'm not quite sure tbh. I don't mean to sound sexist or anything like that but imo they're more of a threat to women than to men as far as sexual assault goes, so maybe they should just use the male washroom for the time being, unless there's some kind of neutral bathroom or they can just hold it in.

Mind you, there's literally no way to enforce anything like this, so I don't think the law or regulation if you will would matter in the long run.

 

[QI 541]

I personally go with "use whatever bathroom you look like".

 

[Oglooger]

There are unisex bathrooms.
no one gives a shit, just do your business and leave, you will not get beaten up.
I'm sure you will find degenerates like you at the Walmart restrooms so you will feel like home there.

 

[bradsternum]

People should stop being so weird about how and where they shit, on both sides of the argument.

 

[AnOminous]

People should stop being so weird about how and where they shit, on both sides of the argument.

India is right, we should just have designated shitting streets and do away with public restrooms, they only cause strife.

 

[NumberingYourState]

Sometimes it's better if you just hold your shit in long enough so when you do your business, it comes out as a huge, perfectly smooth log that would appear impossible to flush.

It doesn't require a gender-specific bathrooms.