Law Two Texas men charged with First Degree Murder after shooting man in dispute over roadside garbage -

(Watch the video first)

  • Guilty!

    Votes: 80 23.6%
  • I doubt it!

    Votes: 259 76.4%

  • Total voters
    339

Null

Ooperator
kiwifarms.net
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uX70K_1537453032

https://ktxs.com/news/local/caught-on-camera-abilene-father-son-kill-neighbor-over-trash
https://archive.li/lLC91

ABILENE, Texas — The murder of an Abilene man was caught on camera.


Aaron Howard was shot and killed Sept. 1 in the alley behind his home on Don Juan Street. His two neighbors, Johnnie and Michael Miller, have been charged with the murder.

Howard's fiancee, Kara Box, shot the deadly dispute on her cell phone and released it to KTXS.


"People deserve to know what actually happened and you know they deserve to know John and Michael Miller are murderers," Box said.

The video shows the heated exchange between Howard and his two neighbors.

All three of the men were heard making threats until eventually, John Miller pulls the trigger on his pistol, shooting Howard.

Then, Michael Miller shoots Howard with his shotgun.
I_doubt_it.jpgi_will_kill_you.jpg


[video]../attachments/1537575798479-webm.546643[/video]
 

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Club Sandwich

kiwifarms.net
man in the orange shirt was an idiot for escalating a situation that he could have walked away from and had his day in court.

shirtless duo are idiots, of a much more serious sort, for introducing firearms into a situation they could have walked away from and had their day in court.

what a shit show all around.

this seems very much in the "bad shot" category as the armed party both outnumbered and outgunned the belligerent; and while disparity of force generally isn't applicable in defense shootings, the hell is he defending against? bad fashion? harsh language?

while the current law in Texas is pretty forgiving (https://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/119767.PDF), the video seems to show that there wasn't an immediate threat to life or limb.
 

BrunoMattei

Vincent Dawn
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Before I watched the video I thought it was open and shut but after watching it I think the father and son will walk. The guy was repeatedly screaming "I'm going to fucking kill you!" While they were mostly calm. And of course off camera you can't see the scuffle.

The guy who got shot is a fucking idiot for not just walking away and escalating it. And it seemed like the guy got close enough where he could have wrestled the pistol away.
 

Clop

kiwifarms.net
Two guys with guns are too fucking full of themselves to walk away.

One huge guy with no gun is too fucking full of himself to walk away.

The wife of the guy that was shot was so full of her husband (and probably thinking at the back of her head that his video is gonna get sooo many views on her Facebook profile, man) that at no point did she have the fucking brain stem to stop her husband from mouthing off to insane people or calling the police to stop the testosterone stand-off.

Every single one of these people wanted someone to get hurt over their goddamned pride.
 

Club Sandwich

kiwifarms.net
looks like the orange dude attacked first by throwing the bat at them.
The guy was repeatedly screaming "I'm going to fucking kill you!" While they were mostly calm. And of course off camera you can't see the scuffle.
Completely disagree. The man said many times he intended to kill the two and swung on the older man with a bat.
saying and doing are two different things, and from the audio, it sounds like shots fired first before the bat was thrown, notice the shots are at 2:10 and the bat is thrown/hits the older guy at 2:12. the video itself isn't clear on who "swung" first, or if the orange man had the bat in hand and was aggressively approaching (as the cameraman... the wife i think) does not show this.

so i disagree that there is clear indication that orange shirt guy provoked a response, at least not in this video clip. if the video showed the guy with the bat in hand and approaching, that's a different story, and talking a big game while unarmed against a disparity of force is very arguable.

if you have the time on video where it's clear that the orange guy was very close or had the bat in hand and was approaching, i'd like to see it. strictly from the video, this appears to fall into a "bad shoot" where de-escalating would have been a better option. if after doing that orange shirt guy came after shirtless old guy/shirtless young guy then it's 100% on orange shirt guy.

just speaking from my experience and training from what is visible and audible in that video.
 

Null

Ooperator
kiwifarms.net
so i disagree that there is clear indication that orange shirt guy provoked a response, at least not in this video clip. if the video showed the guy with the bat in hand and approaching, that's a different story, and talking a big game while unarmed against a disparity of force is very arguable.
things to consider.

1. The camera conveniently doesn't show the actual confrontation. If this video was to exonerate her husband, she missed the most critical moment and failed completely.
2. This is in Texas. If yo tell a Texan with a gun "I am going to kill you", you are going to die. Period. No jury will convict him, hence the bail bond amount.
 

Crippled Eagle

Top Floppy Slotter 1977
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Texas does not have a duty to retreat, but brandishing a firearm is considered disorderly conduct. The duo were not on their own property, so claiming castle doctrine is out the window, and they were in fact "displaying a firearm in a public place with intent to cause alarm, or in a manner that would alarm a reasonable person." That's textbook disorderly conduct there. They were breaking the law as soon as they walked out there. Moreover, since they obviously intended to intimidate or inflict harm on someone, they could be charged with deadly conduct or aggravated assault, both of which can be felonies or misdemeanors. All of this even before they pull the trigger. In Texas, open carry is legal only if the person carrying is a Concealed Handgun License holder and is carrying the firearm in a holster or sling. These men were not. Even if they had a CHL this would be illegal. They escalated the situation by committing multiple felonies just to fucking be there with guns, and then shot the dude to death in an alleyway they didn't own.

Second degree murder, open and shut. They'll probably plea down to manslaughter and some firearms charges.
 

Club Sandwich

kiwifarms.net
things to consider.

1. The camera conveniently doesn't show the actual confrontation. If this video was to exonerate her husband, she missed the most critical moment and failed completely.
i realize that. it also doesn't preclude either party from what is shown, which is doubtless going to be admitted - the bat hit the guy after two shots are fired. this is audible very clearly, although not shown. it's reasonable that orange shirt guy was maybe picking up a bat and suddenly lunging or something, but it isn't shown.

2. This is in Texas. If yo tell a Texan with a gun "I am going to kill you", you are going to die. Period. No jury will convict him, hence the bail bond amount.
i'm familiar with TX gun laws for the most part, especially the changes to their self defense laws after their 2007 revisions. threatening someone is different from presenting an immediate threat that would require the use of deadly force to prevent. what is shown is a situation that could have been walked away from by either party, and the very agitated orange shirted guy might have provoked a deadly self defense response... which isn't shown. instead we hear that two shots are fired, then we see a bat hit the older shirtless guy with a pistol. the order these occur in is important and why i believe it isn't so easy to dismiss.

edit:
Murder in the 1st. Won't happen.
this i agree with. 1st degree murder is seemingly a knee-jerk charge, as their demeanor doesn't show any malice or convincing forethought to kill the guy. TX does not actually have 2nd degree murder (it's just called murder there); but i can see that being a thing and plead down.
 

Crippled Eagle

Top Floppy Slotter 1977
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I agree, but they've not been charged with Disorderly Conduct. They're charged with Murder in the 1st. Won't happen.
And they'll plea down to something else. I personally don't see murder 1, because proving it to be premeditated would be almost impossible from what I can see. Looks like textbook murder 2 to me, if it were to go to trial, but it would save taxpayer time and money to just have them plead guilty to manslaughter.

Edit: what is this bullshit with texas having special snowflake deadly conduct laws and no murder 2. I thought Oklahoma was exceptional for not having attempted murder and only "using a weapon with intent to kill"
 

Crippled Eagle

Top Floppy Slotter 1977
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You can order law semantics with me but it doesn't matter what the books say, it matters what the jury would think. If I were on the jury I'd find them both innocent.
It won't make it to jury trial. These two country bumpkins will be too spooked at the prospect of going to pound me in the ass prison and being felons. My money is on them pleading out to a manslaughter charge or maybe even negligent homicide and getting like 4-5 years in prison, and being back on the street in less than two years.
 

Trasha Pay That A$$

I like the D
kiwifarms.net
Like most of these incidents caught mid-way on someone's phone, all the people involved are extremely exceptional, including the woman filming.. Why not try to get your fiance to walk away instead of just stand there while everyone yells at each other with some kind of weapon? And whose mattress and trash can was that? I don't get why this argument even started to begin with.

Edit: Ms. Box is just as guilty in not stopping this, based on this info from here. Her standing there just filming is probably not part of helping his condition.

Capture.PNG
 
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TowinKarz

Thoroughly Unimpressed
kiwifarms.net
When your argument over litter ends with additional litter on the ground, in the form of spent shell casings and a body, something went wrong.... that said.

Two guys with guns are too fucking full of themselves to walk away.

One huge guy with no gun is too fucking full of himself to walk away.

The wife of the guy that was shot was so full of her husband (and probably thinking at the back of her head that his video is gonna get sooo many views on her Facebook profile, man) that at no point did she have the fucking brain stem to stop her husband from mouthing off to insane people or calling the police to stop the testosterone stand-off.

Every single one of these people wanted someone to get hurt over their goddamned pride.
I get the feeling this was a charming neighborhood to live in, having to measure your dick every 5 seconds and make sure it was still the biggest....
 
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