Law Two Texas men charged with First Degree Murder after shooting man in dispute over roadside garbage -

(Watch the video first)

  • Guilty!

    Votes: 80 23.7%
  • I doubt it!

    Votes: 257 76.3%

  • Total voters
    337

The Demon Pimp of Razgriz

Still Pimpin
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That doesn't mean he (Or his brother) didn't have the bat before hand, he could just had it leaning against something for the video, but was armed before the video started the defense could very well make a claim the bat came first and can only be disputed via two witnesses who were encouraging orange shirt to continue to act out.
There is also the children who were apparently present at one point as well, as other potential witnesses we aren't aware of yet.

I doubt she "didn't know" as when it was just a verbal altercation both sides made mention of giving the tape to police.
As far as professional actions from the lawyer, its scummy and she is a third party to the criminal case and doesn't paint the client in a good light, which makes it even more questionable.
Again the defense maybe able to use the "the DA had to find this out form the media" to cast doubt on the jury's mind. This isn't like a third party (from all who were involved) who found the clip via reviewing security footage of the day.
Whether she simply decided not to give it to the police, or gave it to her lawyer to give to the police and that didn't happen, or was advised not to by said lawyer is a moot point here, as is that fact that the DA didn't get the tape immediately. All accounts point to the family making the tape public themselves, indicating that they weren't attempting to hide the tape. Not sure what the defense could even argue there. Clearly Orange guy's family wanted people to see the tape, so they weren't hiding its existence from the public (and therefore the police). Nor am I sure why the lawyer didn't at least give a copy of the tape to the cops. This is just a weird situation all around. Looks more like this woman was given bad advice to go public with the tape via the media rather than give it directly to the cops.

The bolded part is why I also have doubt...
A lot of this is speculation based on facts we don't have. We don't have toxicology reports so this is a worthless hypothetical. He may not have been on anything at all. Maybe he was hyped up by adrenaline; we don't know.

If you go back and watch the end of the video again, you can hear orange guy clearly say, "Point it" like he had been saying throughout the video, and there was no sound of movement (like someone rushing towards someone). He was also standing close to the old guy judging by sound and where everyone was in the ensuing chaos...too close to charge him from a distance, but maybe close enough to take a swing, however, he sounds way too calm prior to the gunshots; its doubtful that he was preparing an attack. After the first two gunshots, he can be seen running away from the two gunmen and tossing the bat back at the father. He was subsequently shot from behind by the son with the shotgun; you can tell this because his body is laying away from the gunmen as his girlfriend runs up. He seems to have been shot in the back of the head. So he was shot in the back, possibly while in retreat, and we can't tell if he took a swung prior to the first shots being fired.

The kid's ages will factor into whether or not they are considered reliable witnesses or whether or not they will even be allowed to testify. Older kids/preteens/teenagers will be able to testify just fine. Even assuming the adults are the only witnesses, it maybe more of a toss up, dependable on other factors.
 
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Whatthefuck

kiwifarms.net
Jesus, maybe I'm the moron here, but he didn't have the bat until he saw these two genetic throwaways with guns. I don't think Murder 1 will stick, you'd be stupid to think that in TX, but they're going to plead down to something. We all have a flight or fight response. Apparently this guy was legit kind of mental, but look at these two fine TX specimens. If I'm being completely honest it's more like an :autism: Rock, Paper, Scissors at this point and no one is going to miss any of these genes in the collective pool.
 

stupidpieceofshit

Halloween in January is better.
True & Honest Fan
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There is also the children who were apparently present at one point as well, as other potential witnesses we aren't aware of yet.



Whether she simply decided not to give it to the police, or gave it to her lawyer to give to the police and that didn't happen, or was advised not to by said lawyer is a moot point here, as is that fact that the DA didn't get the tape immediately. All accounts point to the family making the tape public themselves, indicating that they weren't attempting to hide the tape. Not sure what the defense could even argue there. Clearly Orange guy's family wanted people to see the tape, so they weren't hiding its existence from the public (and therefore the police). Nor am I sure why the lawyer didn't at least give a copy of the tape to the cops. This is just a weird situation all around. Looks more like this woman was given bad advice to go public with the tape via the media rather than give it directly to the cops.

The going to the news things, isn't a sign of guilt (but of a bad lawyer) sure, but remember this can be used against the State's prosecution as an argument for the defense, in court (along with really poisoning the jury pool, to the point of maybe (again speculation) Orange Shirt was well known in the county as a violent nut bag and by releasing the video it poisons the pool forces it to go to an different jurisdiction).


A lot of this is speculation based on facts we don't have. We don't have toxicology reports so this is a worthless hypothetical. He may not have been on anything at all. Maybe he was hyped up by adrenaline; we don't know.
The speculation was speculation, I was giving examples as to what could cause a person to take multiple shots before falling, I even labeled it as such because it is beyond the scope of the discussion outside of an example (same with the speculation about it being intentionally used to poison the jury pool)

If you go back and watch the end of the video again, you can here orange guy clearly say, "Point it" like he had been saying throughout the video, and there was no sound of movement (like someone rushing towards someone). He was also standing close to the old guy judging by sound and where everyone was in the ensuing chaos...too close to charge him from a distance, but maybe close enough to take a swing, however, he sounds way too calm prior to the gunshots; its doubtful that he was preparing an attack. After the first two gunshots, he can be seen running away from the two gunmen and tossing the bat back at the father. He was subsequently shot from behind by the son with the shotgun; you can tell this because his body is laying away from the gunmen as his girlfriend runs up. He seems to have been shot in the back of the head. So he was shot in the back, possibly while in retreat, and we can't tell if he took a swung prior to the first shots being fired.
You don't hear her running either and her feet would have been closer to the mic then Orange shirt, you don't even hear him hitting the ground, either the mic didn't pick it up, the ground wasn't hard enough for it, or the audio has been edited in terms of volume.

I also do not see any obvious GSW on the guys head, but I will conceded that I am seeing a bunch of artifacting/pixelization in the images and it seems to be low resolution to start with.

I don't really want to look at the video any more or listen for stuff, I can't take hearing the wife's screams again. The whole thing all around is shitty, and her encouraging the guy to keep on going is awful, but even still the little part of me that is still human hurts a little for her.

The kid's ages will factor into whether or not they are considered reliable witnesses or whether or not they will even be allowed to testify. Older kids/preteens/teenagers will be able to testify just fine. Even assuming the adults are the only witnesses, it maybe more of a toss up, dependable on other factors.
That is true, which is why the kids were more of an afterthought in my post. But even then, I suspect the defense will still be able to press doubt in to the jury's mind.
 
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The Demon Pimp of Razgriz

Still Pimpin
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also do not see any obvious GSW on the guys head
There are short parts of the later video where you can see that the guy has been shot in the head, but I understand that you might not want to look at that again.

You don't hear her running either and her feet would have been closer to the mic then Orange shirt, you don't even hear him hitting the ground, either the mic didn't pick it up, the ground wasn't hard enough for it, or the audio has been edited in terms of volume.
The mic is probably directional. For instance, when he hit the ground, the camera was pointed towards the gunmen, not him, and the son was firing his shotgun. The heavier sounds and reverberation probably covered up the sound of him hitting the ground. Camera mics can be a liability in that regard. However, you can here them running, AFTER the shooting started, before the Son opened up.

The speculation was speculation
Fair enough.
 
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Sherlock Homo

kiwifarms.net
Two Hillbilly's leave their house with weapons drawn to confront neighbour over a mattress, neighbour lands out getting shot in the back.

Cut and dry imo.

But my God, they are all dumb (I know I'm late and it's been said). Why leave your house with guns drawn? Why fight over a mattress? Why record (recording makes idiots want to perform)? Why fight with armed men? Why threaten armed men? Why do armed men feel threatened, they are armed? Why throw a bat at armed men? Why would armed men shoot a man for throwing a bat? It's only a bat, and once he throws it, he no longer has a bat. Why then shoot him in the back? It looks bad.

Fucking exceptional all around.

Edit: it reads to me like two hicks thought if they provoked a reaction from their neighbour that they could just shoot him. I mean, you know your neighbour hates you and you him, you know he has a temper and likes a fight. You wager he would flip out if you pull a gun on him in front of his wife and kids, so you do. He flips out, you shoot him in the back.
 

Crippled Eagle

Top Floppy Slotter 1977
True & Honest Fan
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What everyone who says "they weren't justified in bringing their guns" is missing is that Aaron Howard was their neighbor. They knew exactly how this would play out. They knew he was psychotic. They were preparing for the eventuality that they'd have to defend themselves, and they ended up needing to defend themselves.
Yeah but if you read the actual statutes in the state of Texas, the actual law and how it is written, these guys did some very illegal things.
 

Yop Yop

Corrupted Citizen of the Private Villa
kiwifarms.net
I can't think of a serious gun owner who would go outside with a drawn weapon over a mattress in an alley. Even if some bald dude was taunting me over said mattress.

Myself, I would think "I ain't risking legal fees over this stupid mattress" and walk away.
Lol you must be from a liberal state then my friend.
 

The Great Chandler

"Pickleless girls don't marry virgin boys"
kiwifarms.net

TowinKarz

Thoroughly Unimpressed
kiwifarms.net
So you're saying that a couple of somehow sensible hicks had enough with a psychotic sped?
As much as I may sympathize with having to live next door to a head case, you can't legally go out and stand next to him until he spergs and then yell "Stand muh ground" and blast him, which is what the preponderance of evidence here seems to be showing happened. Granted, it's all highly fractured and spun through the media telephone-game at this pint, which is why I'm not saying anyone's guilty of anything until we get a trial.

But the inevitability of outcome doesn't mean you can legally entitle yourself to skip right to it.

The inevitability of a rotten tenant being evicted doesn't allow you to throw him out without his legal 30 day warning

The inevitability of a terminal patient dying in the next month doesn't mean it isn't murder to put a pillow over their face right now to lessen the hospice bill

And the inevitability of a violent hothead getting shot because he keeps mouthing off in Texas doesn't mean it's not murder for whoever pulled the trigger if they walked up to him in broad daylight and said "give me an excuse pal, I dare ya! "
 
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