Untitled Hideous Kojimbo project in development - Death Stranding 2?

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X Pac Heat

Adapt or go back to reddit
kiwifarms.net
you're just a jealous ameritard who can't enjoy video games without your Michael Bay guns and explosions. We Europeans are a higher breed and can appreciate good slow story telling and gameplay which you must think deeply about in order to understand.

Imagine calling someone a jealous tard while needing to think deeply about "nukes, war and information control bad" mixed in with Hollywood "homages" lmfao

He makes some enjoyable games, but the dude and his writing isn't that deep guy. Read some actual books if you want to come off as an intellectual to anyone besides weaboos and bronies.
 
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Dark Edea

kiwifarms.net
Imagine calling someone a jealous tard while needing to think deeply about "nukes, war and information control bad" mixed in with Hollywood "homages" lmfao

He makes some enjoyable games, but the dude and his writing isn't that deep guy. Read some actual books if you want to come off as an intellectual to anyone besides weaboos and bronies.
And god forbid you play his games for the gameplay.
 

JamesFargo

saying "Oh cool" as I put the gun in my mouth
kiwifarms.net
His intentions are good, but he lacks artistry.

Take another auteur: Itoi tells a story through the gameplay and its surroundings. He explains just enough and lets our minds fill in the rest. Kojima writes an essay and then scripts a game around that.

At this point, who'd have the balls to push back Kojima or ask him tough questions? It's gotten to where reviewers laugh off critics of the cutscenes, as though we should know what to expect. He's impervious to criticism. Maxed-out fame and fanbase who will stick by him no matter what.
 
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Grey Donovan

kiwifarms.net
I remember buying Death Stranding at launch, putting the disc into my console, and installing the game only to never press start. I usually give people chances when I’m skeptical of their work, but this time I just didn’t have it in me.

Thank goodness for physical media though. I got most of my money back from selling it to someone else.
 

Someone in a Tree

It's the ripple, not the sea that is happening
kiwifarms.net
Imagine calling someone a jealous tard while needing to think deeply about "nukes, war and information control bad" mixed in with Hollywood "homages" lmfao

He makes some enjoyable games, but the dude and his writing isn't that deep guy. Read some actual books if you want to come off as an intellectual to anyone besides weaboos and bronies.
At the risk of stepping on some toes, just about every video game that goes all in with artistic pretensions only succeed in showing how far behind the medium is when compared to just about any other form of narrative entertainment. If Heavy Rain, once a beloved “games as art” poster child, was a movie instead, it would be quickly dismissed, not held up as a beacon.
 

X Pac Heat

Adapt or go back to reddit
kiwifarms.net
At the risk of stepping on some toes, just about every video game that goes all in with artistic pretensions only succeed in showing how far behind the medium is when compared to just about any other form of narrative entertainment. If Heavy Rain, once a beloved “games as art” poster child, was a movie instead, it would be quickly dismissed, not held up as a beacon.

Agreed 100%.

In the same way that movie should be "show, not tell." games should be "play, not show and tell."

So may developers seem to have forgotten that the biggest emotional response out of a game should and does come from the experience of playing it. It's why despite my absolute disdain for how up his own ass Kojima has gotten with his writing, I haven't dismissed him entirely as a game creator. Metal Gear Solid V has a stupid as fuck story, but the fact that the game is so open makes me feel much more involved in everything and it is easily my most played in the series even though I'm disappointed it wasn't taken further. And while Death Stranding wasn't my cup of tea, I appreciate that his intention was to invoke feelings of isolation with the world and game mechanics.
 
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JamesFargo

saying "Oh cool" as I put the gun in my mouth
kiwifarms.net
At the risk of stepping on some toes, just about every video game that goes all in with artistic pretensions only succeed in showing how far behind the medium is when compared to just about any other form of narrative entertainment. If Heavy Rain, once a beloved “games as art” poster child, was a movie instead, it would be quickly dismissed, not held up as a beacon.
I was re-watching some Super Bunnyhop videos. George has got some serious bro-love for Kojima, but once you step out of his comfort zone, he hits that sweet spot of objectivity. When he refers to BJ from Wolfenstein as "one of the best-written characters in gaming history", it's a sad reminder that standards for games are much lower. BJ is well-written by gaming standards.

Back on topic:

Games are a personal experience, meaning that every time you take control away from the player and tell them how to feel, it falls short.

Lynch embraces the subjectivity of his work, which I think is healthy. Games like Myst and Obra Din challenge the player to piece together what happened. Silent Hill used abstract images in place of words, since language is limiting and the town is totally unresponsive. (Downpour lacks poetry and resorts to taunting the player in English.)

Kojima can't cope with the fact that not everyone will have the same experience playing his games. Kojima wants to wring every ounce of meaning out his work and then hit you over the head with it. No symbolism goes unexplained. No ambiguity permitted. The player will never come away with a message that Kojima didn't think of first. And a lot of folks are mostly fine with that. Which feeds Kojima's belief that his ideas are too big for our little minds.

ahoyahoy.jpg
 
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Someone in a Tree

It's the ripple, not the sea that is happening
kiwifarms.net
When he refers to BJ from Wolfenstein as "one of the best-written characters in gaming history", it's a sad reminder that standards for games are much lower. BJ is well-written by gaming standards.
I’m reminded of how readers kept pushing Braid onto Roger Ebert, thinking that this would be the game that would make him change his stance on video games as high art. He went on to describe the text interludes as reading like a wordy fortune cookie.
 

Peasant

kiwifarms.net
Never played any of his games aside from MGSV, but Kojima has my eternal respect for making an honest-to-God walking simulator. Good or bad, I hope his new project is not unremarkable.
 

Titos

Buried in a very very very deep grave
kiwifarms.net
Seems Kojumbus' next game will have mechs of some sort based off of the careers section of his site. Specifically mentions modelling and designing mechs multiple times under requirements. I'm not exactly a huge Kojima fan but if he can make a fun mech game that would be cool, especially since Armored Core is seemingly forever dead.
 

Dom Cruise

How is she when she doesn't surf?
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Death Stranding is fucking amazing. People complain because they're so used to crazy fast paced games that are up in your face, constantly rewarding you with bullshit. The story is fantastic to, actually requires some thought rather than the main character just blatantly stating everything.
It has it's moments, the part where I built a zipline up and down a mountain and then could deliver stuff lickety split was cool, it was then that I could see what the game was going for, but moments like that were few and far between when compared to tedious trekking around or that area where there's a ravine and falling down means it's difficult to navigate your way out of, that was awful.

That said, I did really enjoy the story and characters, which is what kept me going.

His intentions are good, but he lacks artistry.

Take another auteur: Itoi tells a story through the gameplay and its surroundings. He explains just enough and lets our minds fill in the rest. Kojima writes an essay and then scripts a game around that.

At this point, who'd have the balls to push back Kojima or ask him tough questions? It's gotten to where reviewers laugh off critics of the cutscenes, as though we should know what to expect. He's impervious to criticism. Maxed-out fame and fanbase who will stick by him no matter what.
I fall somewhere in the middle, I do think the guy is a genius, Metal Gear Solid 2 blew my mind in a way nothing has ever really done before or since quite like that.

But of course I don't think the guy is above criticism or perfect, Death Stranding really is at the end of the day pretentious, "Ooh, what if there was a game that was all about helping others and not centered around violence!?" ignores a basic fact that being a futuristic deliveryman is simply not cool enough, Metal Gear Solid for all it's attempts at deepness and weirdness was still simply cool.

I've also always been bothered by MGS4, he dropped the ball on that one, it was a game his heart so clearly wasn't in, maybe he was essentially forced by Konami into making it what it was but he should have came up with something more interesting than he did.

At the end of the day creative types deserve praise when they do something good and criticism when they mess up, anyone who takes a blanket response to someone, whether it's always heaping praise or the opposite, always talking shit about someone because it's "funny" to troll a fanbase, is doing things a disservice, artists can't grow without honest criticism but cynicism isn't getting anyone anywhere either.


Seems Kojumbus' next game will have mechs of some sort based off of the careers section of his site. Specifically mentions modelling and designing mechs multiple times under requirements. I'm not exactly a huge Kojima fan but if he can make a fun mech game that would be cool, especially since Armored Core is seemingly forever dead.
That sounds incredibly appropriate, I've always envisioned something like a Metal Gear spinoff where you pilot a Metal Gear and fight other Metal Gears and a lot cooler than being a deliveryman.
 

JamesFargo

saying "Oh cool" as I put the gun in my mouth
kiwifarms.net
ignores a basic fact that being a futuristic deliveryman is simply not cool enough
Well, you say that, but there's something noble in what Sam is doing. He's not an on-the-street hero, or even a reluctant hero. Just a professional who gets on with his job, which is "cool" in of itself. Probably would have been better if he had no backstory at all.

Metal Gear Solid 2 blew my mind in a way nothing has ever really done before or since quite like that.
To bring this back to MGS2: it's striking how Raiden is out of his depth, even having a panic attack over the codec. That alone is a gamble, one which unfortunately didn't pay off. MGS1 had better 'horror' elements, but Snake never lost his cool.
 

SiccDicc

The Defenestrator
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I’m reminded of how readers kept pushing Braid onto Roger Ebert, thinking that this would be the game that would make him change his stance on video games as high art. He went on to describe the text interludes as reading like a wordy fortune cookie.
I've come to agree that Ebert was right. I don't think he ever meant to say games weren't an art form or a form of expression. However, when you take the stories and characters of video games and tried putting them as their own merits in movies or books, they'd rightly be trashed.

The strength of video games is the - forgive my own pretentiousness - the spiritual connection the player has by interacting with the story and world. This is something lost on a lot of developers and suits these days, that going cinematic hurts the game because it more obviously shows the faults and flaws that you would more eagerly ignore if you were connected by playing. This is something no other medium is capable of and they completely ignore it to tell stories at you.
 

Snekposter

No wolves on Fenris, no gators in Florida.
kiwifarms.net
I've come to agree that Ebert was right. I don't think he ever meant to say games weren't an art form or a form of expression. However, when you take the stories and characters of video games and tried putting them as their own merits in movies or books, they'd rightly be trashed.

The strength of video games is the - forgive my own pretentiousness - the spiritual connection the player has by interacting with the story and world. This is something lost on a lot of developers and suits these days, that going cinematic hurts the game because it more obviously shows the faults and flaws that you would more eagerly ignore if you were connected by playing. This is something no other medium is capable of and they completely ignore it to tell stories at you.
Agreed. Far too many people treat video games as these weird non-movies where the main character is just... there. Focus on the main character, get the player into their shoes. Its why I will forever love FC3, because despite its flaws, there's nothing quite like you personally feeling like you're going sane in response to the events around you.
 

Autistic AT-ST

Chicken Walker Reborn
kiwifarms.net
Agreed. Far too many people treat video games as these weird non-movies where the main character is just... there. Focus on the main character, get the player into their shoes. Its why I will forever love FC3, because despite its flaws, there's nothing quite like you personally feeling like you're going sane in response to the events around you.

The main Problem is office politics these days. Was at least tolerable during the initial terminal stages when FC3 was made.
Now every bigwig thinks its reasonable to get a AAA FC3++SUPER REMAKE IRL EDITION in under 6 months :story:.
 

Marissa Moira

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I've come to agree that Ebert was right. I don't think he ever meant to say games weren't an art form or a form of expression. However, when you take the stories and characters of video games and tried putting them as their own merits in movies or books, they'd rightly be trashed.

The strength of video games is the - forgive my own pretentiousness - the spiritual connection the player has by interacting with the story and world. This is something lost on a lot of developers and suits these days, that going cinematic hurts the game because it more obviously shows the faults and flaws that you would more eagerly ignore if you were connected by playing. This is something no other medium is capable of and they completely ignore it to tell stories at you.
Look up some older movies right when sound was introduced.

The precursor to movies was theatre and musicals, so when sound was introduced many just decided to recreate the earlier form of entertainment in a newer format. Which really didn't work. People may think of the movie adaptations of musicals today, but no those all use modern movie practices. These old films were devoid of any type of cinematography and were just like you sitting in a seat watching a play from a single camera angle. Or it was listening people talk endlessly for an hour with no real story and you were just hearing conversations.

They are very very dull and boring films that used none of the strengths that film is known for. So stuff that came before like the short A Trip to The Moon were deemed a much better example of the medium. Eventually the novelty of sound wore off and people wanted stuff that was entertaining to watch.

Games are going through a similar process where movie fags just want games to be hollywood films because that's what they're familiar with, but it's not really panning out in a workable fashion in much the same way.
 

Peasant

kiwifarms.net
Games are going through a similar process where movie fags just want games to be hollywood films because that's what they're familiar with, but it's not really panning out in a workable fashion in much the same way.
These sorts of "movie games" also happen to be a very safe design direction for gorillion dollar budget AAA titles, since as others in this thread have said, it gives the designer a much greater degree of control over what experience the player will have. When you need to move the maximum number of units possible because you spent twice the game's budget on marketing, it won't do if any significant portion of the players have a less than ideal impression of the game because they couldn't quite come to grips with the mechanics or didn't invest themselves enough to explore and experiment.

Personally, I feel people who complain about video game writing frequently miss the point. A lot of the time they're taking a part away from its whole and examining it without considering how it's meant to fit together with the gameplay. When you have to make narrative concessions for player agency, then your story probably isn't going to look like a work of genius. The player has a hand in writing the story with their decisions. I feel that all the hand wringing over making games "REAL ART!" has been a contributing factor in the preponderance of pretentious trash that fails at being fun or artistic, although the main culprits are talentless hipsters who are game developers or game journalists because they couldn't hack it elsewhere.
 

wtfNeedSignUp

kiwifarms.net
If I may butt in for the games is art discussion, I think there is no single quality to define them as such.
People keep talking about plot since it's the first thing we tend to think about, but games can be art based on visuals, characters, plot/gameplay integration (which in my opinion is the one thing games can do that alleviate them over other forms), etc. Even big Hollywood games like AssCreed can be considered art for recreation of historical architecture (when it isn't being revisioned).

Death Stranding came to me as having powerful moments but being overly convoluted and with a message that is too simple minded to have a real impact. Yes, when people joing together to make something it can be greater than anything a single person could have achieved by himself, but those kind of joint efforts almost invariably come over the backs of other people, the people working losing their liberty, and the amount of work not being shared evenly.
 

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